I will have to look up the improper marital conduct, I had a list of questions for her and when she threw that out-I didn't stop to ask.

The therapy, I hope it will be good. OD is very nervous, but I said we would all three be there to start with. The intake lady said we could bring their magna-doodle (they do their feelings drawing on that all the time)

I think I am scared of WH because no matter how this D goes down, we are still going to have to coparent for the next 12 years. Maybe I feel like I am allowing myself to be legally shafted in the spirit of coparenting. BUT-he is damaging the children, I have to stop playing the martyr/victim here.

I have to protect us, I do not have to be a victim anymore. Being the "nice guy" is NOT helping my children.

I need to write that 100 times.

I talked to WH on the phone, I started the conversation with:

"On the advice of legal counsel, I am going to ask you again, to stop asking the children to lie to me"

he denied that he told them to lie, he was defensive about my conversation opener. He told me he was broke and would not have the money to file for another week or so. I did ask if he could find a grown up to discuss his mistress with instead of with his children-he asked me if I wanted him to lie about it-I said I would ask the therapist if he should lie to his children about his love sickness re: OW.

I did ask him, and said it was purely out of curiosity, why did he have to stay away from OW for 3 months, was it his attorney or her husband making the request. He refused to answer, I said that was fine, it was just curious to me. Her H didn't have an issue before, and it shouldn't matter to his lawyer now-so I was just wondering.

He brought up the previous separation and my A, I said I would be happy to dissect that with him in counseling together, but it was not important to out current legal situation. Nor, are the children dealing with it the same, as before, both parents were very active in their lives and now he has become very distant.

We talked about OD not feeling safe about discussing her feelings with him. He was much less defensive than I thought he would be. he didn't seem irritated about the counseling, I think he is glad a neutral party will step in, I guess he thinks a neutral party will defend his actions.

Oh well, nothing very note worthy, just same ole, same ole...

Against my own better judgement, I called WH to ask again about the reason for the 3 months NC with OW. I explained that I was curious if his lawyer was going to try to deny the adultery, or if OW/OWH were divorcing. He said that it ws just an emotional cooling off period.

This causes me emotional crap, because so much can happen in 3 months (I doubt that they could make it three months with NC, but..) two months ago, he was gung ho for the marriage. His A has only been going on for 4 months or so. I explained my mental conundrum to him, basically saying that I will have a hard time filing for D since so much can change so quickly. He said that even if he and OW don't work out, he still wants the D.

I rephrased it back to him saying "I am hearing that you would rather be alone than be with me", he denied that was what he was saying. That happens all the time. I don't know where our communication gap is.

Anyway, my brain says file, this is going to happen, might as well take the bull by the horns and get the emotional upper hand. My heart says wait, your WH is still lost and confused.

I can continue to plan A, but my only option is with regards to the kids. And when I am coparenting nicely, it just seems to reinforce to him that we will all be fine after the D.

I did tell him I was reluctant to file, as I don't want him to be able to say that I did this to him. He is calling the shots in this, he is not the victim.

How to I get my heart and my brain in sync?

I am starting to feel like a hopeless MB case, are the any old timers that can help guide me?

Orchid, I do appreciate you following along with me. I am really started to think that I am crazy and delusional for having any hope at all.

I just feel like this is some type of test, until I let go completely, I am going to be going crazy. And I am struggling with the limbo.

My gut says there may be hope. I don't know the truth about him and OW having an emotional cooling off period, that makes no sense. You have already thrown your family away, why bother cooling off with OW now?

My brain says file, get control. My heart says, but wait, your WH is not in his right mind. No one wants my M but me...


I could really use some advice. If I am not following the plan, then someone please enlighten me.

Tonight I just wept with my children as they cried themselves to sleep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

I am PMSing and not doing well. I just want to take the kids to him and tell him "You broke them, you fix them".

I am beginning to hate him, if anyone can say a prayer for us, I'd appreciate it.

((((Jean36 & children)))),

How sad!!! I know it's a love/hate relationship Jean. I feel the same way sometimes. It's the hardest when we think about and see the hurt of the children. It's not your fault. And tell them it's not thier fault either.
I hope he wakes up Jean. He needs to see the Light!!

Love and Prayers, Lady

Thanks ladysheep, and it sounds like you may need a hug too (((lady)))

The kids haven't seen me break down too many times, but I am wearing thin very quickly.

jean

if anyone can understand how it feels to think you're crazy for still having hope...for forgiving what seems like the unforgivable...

it's me....and many others here too!

I've been where your children are...when my father left my mother for OW...and her 4 children

it is so very hard for a child to understand...heck as grown ups we don't understand either!

the thing that really helped me was my mother and father discussing how badly this was affecting me and deciding that my father would give me some special time every week...just the two of us

he picked me up from school every friday or when it was raining since he worked outside and we went out to dinner together...

out of the whole awful situation, this was the thing that mattered the most to me and helped me get through it.

my dad would also send me cards or write me a little note every once in a while...i still have them today-in his old bible

just something to let me know that i was still special to him

hang in there jean...everyone here IS praying for you and your family

Thanks eav. I am just really worried because WH told me the other day how awkward his time with the kids is now. They know way to much, they are tired of me asking them to be patient. My OD is really (and understandably) PO'd because she doesn't feel like she has any control over her life. She keeps asking why daddy did this and none of us got a vote?

But, we are starting therapy Monday. I may need to start AD's, I just can't get over my current hump, I am emotionally stuck.

U r not crazy just very very hurt. Quite understandable.

IMHO, if you are done plan Aing (ok w/your improvements) and ready to move forward, then plan B. If you just can't plan B enough (look who keeps calling him).....then take the D walk

He is pushing you to get the D so he can blame you.

Your mind and heart are not in sync because you are holding onto hope for your H to return when it is the WS standing in the way.

One day, you will want to remove the Ws from your sight. Then your mind and heart w/b in sync. Can't tell you when that w/b. It is up to your heart when it finally decides it has done all and is ready to move forward. Your brain is already ready to go.

Remember you are not crazy. Your feelings are more of despair. But you must realize you are not hopeless. You have those little ones who love you dearly and you love them dearly. The common enemy is that WS and his stinky trailing OWs. What? more than 1 OW? Who knows....maybe. In my case, while I was accusing the WS of abandoning his family, I threw out the idea that he might also be bi-sexual. LOL!!! He felt hurt that I would even think such a thing.... I told him why not? You are already crazed..... who knows?!??!! Yea, I left him wondering. That's a good thing t/d to a WS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

I really feel like I should continue plan A for a while. Especially is he is not going to be with OW for a bit. I don't understand that, but if he can stay away from her for any time at all-that should make something change. Maybe it won't change in my family's favor-but something will change. maybe he will hook up with someone else in the three months.

As far as me making changes to make myself more appealing. I do think I have done the things he had mentioned during our brief fake recovery. He wanted me to be more extroverted, OK, I hang out with people all the time. The problem is that they want to know how WH is acting, and I tell them and that makes WH mad. The other changes are things that he couldn't possibly see since he is not here.

The thing that I have not changed-that he would like me to change, is I am still not accepting his A and that I am not giving him the amicable D he wants.

Honestly, I think I have been pretty lighthousy. I am speaking to him calmly and respectfully. I do not LB, my only DJ are in regards to the kids and the OW crap. And even then, I am respectfully asking him not to shove OW down their throats until we speak to a therapist.

He said he had the A because I looked depressed and he didn't want to go through that with me again. I am not acting depressed with him now. I am acting determined and focused. I have mentioned that I want this situation settled so I can have the paperwork I need to go back to college. He knows there are changes I want to make to the house but OD is balking about changing anything right now.

If he was seriously worried that I was in a depression, I would think he would be surprised that I have not just curled up and died. He made a list of the things like he liked about me. On that list was that I was a survivor, I was creative and I was determined. I think my actions in the past two months have shown that those qualities are alive and well.

I think the problem is that we both want to be the victim here. He wants to be able to say I filed and screwed him in the D so he can feel justified in leaving because I am so unreasonable. I want him to file because I want him to be the one to give up, knowing that he turned his back on someone who fought for him.

He is going to his sister's with the kids for the weekend. I wonder if there is any hope that maybe with a week away from OW (which is unlikely, but a possibility) and spending time with his sister who does love our family... maybe a dent can be made in his fog.

I hate the calender, every time I have to write the date, I just think about how much my life is just stagnanting.

I think about what I would be doing differently if we were divorced. Well, I would have more $ and a schedule. What I am doing now is not working. He knows I am here and that I want him and that is not changing anything. I guess it is time to shake things up a bit, maybe let him know that I will not pine for him forever.

I know he will be angry if I file, because I wil ask for more than he is offering and he will see that as retalitory. But, if he is going to be my ex, I don't need to concern myself with how he perceives things anymore. The judge will not give me anything I am not entitled to, so he may just have to shift his thinking about his offer.

Don't pine or plan after a WS. Rather, plan for your H to return. To get to that plan, you may have to go to plan B. R U done with your improvements yet? Boundaries identified?

If you stay in plan A too long, what motivation would he have to change from being a WS? How much longer can you be used by a WS? How long would your real H expect you t/b used by anyone?

L.

Wow, good point. I doubt that WH thinks he is "using" me, I am not sure that I feel used. BUT, I do think he is taking advantage of my emotional state (doing his little thing because he knows I don't want the divorce)

See how screwed up my thinking is, yes he is taking advantage of me but he is not using me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Sometimes, I amaze myself with how my thinking can be so backwards.

I called the attorney, she can't use a credit card for the retainer. I don't have enough cash advance to cover the retainer. I am mentally ready to file, I am emotionally ready (today anyway). I hate to use the vacation money as I am sure he is going to get financially nasty and that is my back up mortgage fund.

I am doing the same thing over and over, waiting for him to do something. It is not working for me or the girls.

I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. I keep telling my children that we can chose how we are going to feel. No one can dictate our emotional health to us. I need to listen to what I am telling them and heed my own advice.

And yes Orchid, you are right. My H would be so dissapointed in the crap that I am taking off of WH.

Tonight OD was talking to me and telling me how unhappy she was when she stayed at her dad's. She said he spends all his time on the phone with OW, talking or typing into his phone, or he is napping.

She drew pictures with OW's name and the telephone with big X's thru them. This makes me so sad for him and for the kids. He sees them one day a week and he can't get off the phone long enough to interact with his children.

At this point, I don't really care if he comes back to the M, but can he please get out of his alien infested self to see what he is doing to the children?? That is why he had to tell them about OW. He was on the phone saying "I hope to see you soon baby". OD said "That is how he talks to us, so I asked him who he was talking to". I can't imagine how that felt to her, hearing him talking to someone else (she said he was talking so gently to her) when he is so removed from their lives.

Expose. Show the WS your child's pix of the OW's name. Before that show it to your entire support group. Then show 'a copy' (keep the original and give it to your lawyer), show a copy to the WS.

Sorry Ws' are a selfish lot. If they could sell your soul to the devil, they would. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

L.

jean,
sorry you are going through this....
{{{{{jean and daughters}}}}}}}}}}

I just really feel for your girls....your WH is so selfish it is just plain sad that he does not even get what his actions do to the girls...
only cares about his needs...hard to believe.

Hang in there....
Daisy

Thanks Orchid and Daisy, the stuff with the children is really hardening my heart. I don't feel the need to plan B for me (I know that my plan A has not made a dent), but I am wondering about the kids. They may need distance from him while he is in such active addiction. I have a counseling appt for them Monday, I will see what she recommends. That is the heartbreaking thing, I am so close to OK with him not wanting me, but for heaven's sake, please stop hurting the children.

Luckily, he is taking the girls to his sisters this weekend, so I know they will get some warm fuzzies from someone this weekend.

I don't know whether I am starting to buy all his foggy BS, but I am gaining alot of "clarity" on the state of my M at all times, before, during and now. I really think that I am just a nanny, housekeeper and wh0re to him. I honestly can buy that he did not have a PA with OW, perhaps until after he left. He has told me that the only thing we are good at is raising the kids and SF. I do think that there is a level of intimacy that he won't be able to cross over to with me. Part of me thinks it is because I do know him well. And I think that terrifies him.

Bottom line, he does not like me, no matter how much he has ever said he loves me, he does not have any interest in knowing me or liking who I am. After D-Day, on our dates, I was asking him questions about his dreams, his goals, his fork in the road life experiences. I am happy to say that I knew all his dreams, greatest acheivements, his life altering moments. He never asked a thing about me, my dreams, goals or the lessons I have learned.

I am sad to admit to my children that I give up.

But, reading through other people's post, I am surprised it has taken me this long. I will say that my WH has not fence sat or cake eaten. I can't imagine living in the house with someone who is sneaking to the bathroom to call the OP. My WH has made it very clear from the get go where he stands. Yes, after he got busted, he did act like Mr. Family Values and wanted to save the M, but he never came clean, never disclosed even 50% and never acted for a moment that he was relieved that I wanted to save the M. He acted like his parole had been denied when I didn't kick him out.

Hi Jean, I don't know why your WH is playing the "he's not seeing OW for 3 months game." Unless he and she do not want to be seen as having an affair. If he is still talking to her on the phone at hours he is supposed to be attending to the children, it's EA. It's been about a 1 1/2 months since he moved out. Maybe you need to give him an ulitmadum such as if he doesn't want to reconcile your marriage, you may have to plan B. Maybe it will take a plan B for him to see. Let him know what he is throwing away. A wife and 2 beautiful girls who will never be the same if a divorce happens. Does he want to be so selfish.
I don't respect any man who can be so selfish to throw away so much. He won't have it any better later. Maybe staying away from him totally, he will see what he will be missing.
He will see the children, but he needs to see what it really feels like to be lonely and in pain before he realizes everything. He needs to hit a bottom, not have his cake and you too.

I would tell him no phone calls to OW in front of the children. In fact no talk of OW in front of the children. He needs to realize that it is hurting them so much. Show him the picture and tell him of previous pictures. Give him some printed up information on what happens to children of divorce/infidelity.

I agree with Orchid, it might be time to plan B that man.
Enough is enough Jean, you have tolerated to much already, and it's not working. It doesn't mean you have to talk of divorce yet, but maybe a plan B for a while, then decide later. Are you afraid that plan B will push him away to where he wants? If you are afraid that he will stop paying the bills, you may have to get a LS. Sometimes you have to take a step back away of his insanity so that he can see it.

For some reason I don't think he really means that if it doesn't work with OW that he will still divorce. Call him on that and move into plan B, see if he really means what he says, but I don't think he does. He needs to get real with his feelings and stop playing the insane games with you and you need to be strong and tell yourself you will not play them with him. If this is what he want let him have it. He may find out it's really not what he wants.

Move into plan B and do not discuss divorce with him at anytime. In fact tell him you will not discuss divorce, but you will not tolerate what he is doing to you and the children either.

I hope a miracle happens in your marriage and family Jean.


Love and Prayers, Lady

Lady,

Thank you for your continued support. Maybe it is just the PMS talking, but here is why I am scared to plan B:

What if it works, what if he comes to his senses. What if I spend the rest of my life with someone who doesn't like me. I know I can do the work to recover, in or out of the M, but I have no confidence that he can life a finger. I know I can trust him regarding infidelity, I do not believe once a cheater, always a cheater. I was a cheater and I am not that person anymore. But I do not know if I will ever be able to trust him with my heart. Radical honesty, joint protection, joint agreement, those are things I want from a partner. I don't think I can get that with H.

I see the long term pain of people who are actually working together. I can't imagine trying to live with my H knowing that he won't do anything to rebuild. I don't want him out of guilt or responsibility, I don't want him because it is "cheaper to keep her".

Maybe it is time to plan B. It seems like I read that a plan A will either bring the WS closer, or move the BS to a safer emotional place for plan B. Maybe I am a scooch to late for plan B (but that just might me hormonal).

But that is where I am, I am not afraid of plan B failing to bring WS back, I am afraid of what I would do if plan B worked and he came home.

Orchid: Awwwhh.... your post is waaay to tempting to bypass. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ok here goes: PMS talking? Maybe.
Scared of plan B? U shouldn't be. It c/b life-saving 4 u.

If he comes to his senses.....and you don't want him... u can choose to leave. Why would you choose to spend your life with somone who isn't nice to you?



Orchid: That's a trust factor. BTW, M recovery takes 2. In your case, he carries the heavier recovery burden.



Orchid: Ok....but what has he done vs you to earn that trust? Don't trust until he does and even then.....keep plan B in your back pocket. It's doable.



Orchid: Right now, I can understand those feelings. Why are you trying to solve everything now? Your life is too volitale to see yourself even 6 months down the road. All the RH, POJA, etc..... too far away to worry about. Have shorter goals. Work on getting yourself on stronger more stable ground.... that's where plan B can help.

Right now there is nothing to get from your H. Your H isn't around. Your H is being held captive by the WS and alien company...... Stop pretending the WS is your H.



Orchid: Trust is the hardest factor to rebuild. Love should come before and after trust but trust takes time. It was difficult for most of us to imagine any type of recovery....yet some made it as an M and most made it as a personal recovery. Try for the personal recovery 1st. That one is within your grasp.



Orchid: I agree. So don't.



Orchid: R U trying to convince me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Don't worry where plan B will take him.....concentrate on how it will help you.


Orchid: One day at a time. Get yourself stronger before you worry about that obstacle.

take care,
L.