It's been awhile, nothing earth shattering going on. exWH's affair is over, he has posted a personals page on Yahoo. he describes himself as an honest man with integrity. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I still love the jerk and would love to have him back. I am sorry that I pushed for the divorce. Even though he did end up counterfiling, I finally pushed to get it done. I regret that, my heart and mind were not in sync.

I don't know what I want in life, so it is difficult to get it. I am pretty happy with my life, although I am still dealing with depression. Oddly, I am a very happy person with a mood disorder.

The girls are well, they still miss their Daddy alot. He gets them every weekend. He drives 2 1/2 hours each way, 10 hours total each weekend.

I would like to admit that I did give my former OM another go 'round recently. For the record, people who mess with married people are crappy people. Since it was not an A, I thought it might be different. It was, very different, there was not that addictive quality, no madness, no insanity, just plain, boring old crap.

Aloha Jean,

Good to hear from you. So the scum sucking OW didn't last? LOL!!! NO kidding? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

So why does he have them every weekend? Best you get them some and he suffer. He needs to know his down time is w/o his family. eh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like you didn't finish you recovery plan. I know your yard looks good but you need a plan 4 u.

Ready to give it a try? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

Hi Orchid!!

I work every weekend, so if he doesn't have them, I'd have to find a babysitter. I am glad he gets them as often as he does. (Plus, it keeps him from using his weekends to troll for chicks).

Yep, still need work of the recovery, I just kinda survived and then went into a holding pattern. I am not who I want to be. It is weird, I can list the things I don't want, but really have no idea what I want. I spend my life bouncing off of things I am trying to avoid. I would like to be on a path to what I want, not just bouncing off of various things and ending up wherever.

Hi Jean!!

Its kd'sheartbreak. It has been a long time.

Its good to hear what you are up to now. Things are pretty normal in our house now. Very seldom does the thoughts of my fws EA come up.

Life is good again.

That is interesting that you went out with the former om.

Finding your date dull goes to show you without the thrill of being caught, the chemicals are just not there and he is just another guy.

I wish you well Jean, and hope you find someone really special.

It was so good to hear from you, again.

k.d.'s heartbreak <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi kd's! I am so glad to hear that things are going well for you! It is so nice to have some happy endings around here.

Someone said that an affair needs a marriage to make it work. That does seem to be the case as his A barely lasted a month from the time the divorce was final. I assume they are still not together as WHex is still smoking and he looks more like my husband. His appearance changed dramatically when he was with OW.

I wonder if OW ever thinks about us, me and the kids. I wonder if she ever thinks an apology may be in order, I am not holding my breath.

WHex did talk to his former best friend, my BIL for a little while. BIL passed on the message to me that WHex has no interest in reconciliation and he would like it if I would stop hinting around at it. So that hurt, but then I started to get angry. BIL also passed on that WHex is not happy in Kentucky. Oh well...

He is still being very angry and stubborn. He called me and yelled at me for 15 minutes about his dire need for me to get the refinance done. So, the mortgage company faxes the paperwork he needs to sign and it sits for two weeks, he still hasn't signed it.

So I just try to be a non-factor in his life, I am pleasant and upbeat when we need to talk. I still believe that my family being intact is best for my kids, but I know that his feelings are out of my control.

I have no idea what my life will look like a year from now, but I am not scared of it. I think me and the girls will be fine.

Hey, Jean...

Thank you for updating. I love to see you post.

Gotta ask ya about your boundaries here...'cuz you choosing to listen to xWH yelling for 15 minutes stood out to me.

Why would you violate your boundaries like that?

Wondering...and I miss your yard updates...would you let me know what I could plant in my tiny courtyard (gets a lot of afternoon sun from 1pm to 5pm) which would thrill me with color or endurance? I wanna be like you, only in micro doses (in a townhouse)...I have a courtyard border of about two feet to plant in...and no skill, experience or knowledge of what won't die on me. Right now, they are existing hedge-like stuff. I'm a good pruner, I am.

LA

Hey LA, good to hear from you.

Interesting question about that boundary thing. My honest answer-I welcome any contact with him, sick huh? I am really working on trying to figure out what it is about WHex that I find so appealing. Here is what I have come up with so far: I am a low maintainance woman, I don't need much at all. That is WHex's specialty, not much at all. It was a great marriage for me, he met my needs and he didn't get in my face much. Why? Because he really didn't care what I was feeling or thinking. Other people want to talk to me, I am uncomfortable with that. WHex lack of interest in me gels nicely with my fear of intimacy issues.

As far as your yard, sorry, I am no expert. Last year, when I was obsessing about this, I was just buying whatever Lowe's had on clearance. Then, I got into herbs, culinary and medicinal. Herbs aren't very pretty, they aren't showy at all. My favorites for color are the bulbs, they are impressive and come back year after year. I also love fragrant things. I have several different types of lavender, I like to just walk around rubbing the herbs.

I would like a small tea garden, so I could go outside a pick some leaves for tea. I have several tea herbs now, but not enough. Several mints and lemon balm and stuff.

Honestly, if I had a small space like that and no idea what I wanted, I would get the prepackaged perennial gardens like at Park Seed or other catalogs. They already have it planned out, you just plant where they tell you to and it should look like the picture!

For some reason, I miss my WHex on the 4th of July. I went and bought fireworks for us to shoot off. In my mind, the man of the house should handle the pyrotechniques. I did fine last year, over paranoid, but no injuries. I am sure I'll do fine this year.

I know I need to work on my "should" messages. The man "should" handle the fire. It is one of my beliefs. But, since WHex has been gone, I have handled the fireworks and started a couple of fires to burn brush. And, I always have a feeling of independence and success when I do something I perceive to be "man's work". But the feeling of success is clouded by a feeling of not wanting to have to do it.

I have trouble synchronizing my need to be independent with my desire for very traditional family roles.

Jean,

Thank you for your response to my questions.

Would you consider that not having boundaries with WH (as with abusive behavior) means that you won't have them with your girls, yourself, and others?

Healthy boundary enforcements adds to your self-respect, care and consideration. Results in you being MORE attractive, not less. Just a thought.

Kudos on discovering how part of WH's attractiveness FOR you is not triggering your fear of intimacy. Good to know! Working on your own fear of intimacy will greatly change how you connect with others.

And I think you acting in your own independence is essential to that healing...that not reacting from your fear of intimacy...as you continue to do those things which weren't in your "domain" before, you'll see where everyone is capable (something you didn't believe before), and how our acts truly are choices...and maybe see love as the gift it is, not something owed or earned, over time. Your way to healing.

Why celebrating your own independence day is important.

Thank you very much for the growing stuff advice. I hadn't thought of smell or spices (which I would really like, too) or a tea garden. I've got to get my ideas drawn out and POJA with DH what we can do (his artistic visual eye)...I ran this by him after you first posted, so now I can draw it up and lay it out (involves building something...like window boxes sort of...without the windows) and see if this can be our summer project for Sundays.

Glad you're catching your "should" messages.

LA

Thanks for the thought provoking post LA.

My boundaries are seriously screwed. I don't demand anything, it is another "should" problem. If you loved me, you "should" treat me right and I "shouldn't" have to have formal boundaries.

I am like that with the kids too. My youngest daughter told me the other day she was going to help me more around the house. She had realized how much I do. I thought this was great. But, I know that them being responsible is something I need to teach them. If I continue to raise them with my current theory (if you loved me, you'd be good), I am going to have some seriously screwed up kids.

As for WHex, that thing about the opposite of love being indifference, that sticks out to me. I guess I think as long as WHex is yelling at me, he is not indifferent.

Jean,

Very insightful, IMO. You don't see boundaries as what you hold yourself to, that go around you...you see them from the side of others...how to be treated to make you feel loved, is that correct?

Meaning...others make it so you have to have formal boundaries.

And you see where you do not want to pass this down...to be loved you have to be good (earning love). You can see the false control in that...where easily as children we take on that we can control others' feelings by our actions...rather than influence, when they allow our influence.

As for welcoming yelling and fearing most indifference...

You can have it both ways.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

He yells, you get your validation (he's not indifferent) and then you do your boundary enforcements (which are progressive and predetermined)...which is how you validate YOU love YOURSELF and RESPECT WHex's choices.

One does not preclude the other. A not-unreasonable belief, Jean...any attention means interest...disinterest is death. A lot of us experienced that as children...welcoming abuse as attention as well as loving attention...and as adults, we pass that down, too. Yuck. Hit my fear spot. I'd already done this...so I'm in the undoing stage...the amending and discussing stuff.

I highly recommend the not passing down in the first place.

LOL

On your "shoulda" awareness...include "have to" and "ought to"...and their opposites (those shouldn'ts). Just as signals to you that you're not in reality...which is in the present...right now...where there is doing and not doing...replace the "shouldas" with "I want to" and "I don't want to" and see that feels.

It's like "choice" is the antithesis to any "shoulds"...I choose to...I choose not to...

"I choose to listen to my WHex yell at me. I feel this, this and that when he chooses to yell."

What do you think?

LA

Is it OK that I have different boundaries with WHex vs the kids?

With WHex, yes, any attention is welcome. I have listened to him screaming at me ever since D-day. I never felt the need to go to plan B because I was never close to loosing my love for him. Plus, he planned B me, moving out of state and demanding that I do not speak to him except through the attorneys. Me letting him yell at me is very similar to why people cut themselves, feeling anything at all. I understand the cutting thing though I have never done it. I guess I have my own version of feeling pain to reinforce my existence.

With the kids, I want to teach them problem solving skills. So, after they get done blaming me for everything under the sun, we do try to problem solve and work on the changes they can make for their life. But I am depressed, I have gotten lazy with my parenting and I don't ask much from them because I don't want the arguement. Very, very bad. So that is what I am currently working on. I have to snap out of this and get back to some order.

My YD told me yesterday I am to strict and rigid and have to drive on the straight road obeying the speed limit. She, on the other hand, is on the curvy road, listening to music, steering with her knees. She is eight!

Jean,

Boundaries go around you. So they are the same. Boundaries are your code...what you will not do to yourself or others, and what you do not allow others to do to you, nor allow you to do to yourself.

Puts balance and clarity in your life.

Write down your boundaries...mine are honesty, respect, consideration and acceptance. I do not allow myself to yell...crosses three of my boundaries...respect, consideration and acceptance. My predetermined progressive boundary enforcement around yelling is to first state I hear whomever yelling, that it's a choice and that it crosses my boundary. If it continues, I state if they repeat their choice to yell (and I define raised voice with snide or discounting tone and content as yelling...it's a package for me), I will remove myself from the conversation for 20 minutes in order to deal with my emotional flooding (by phone, this means hang up...in person, going to another room). Third enforcement is to state again and then inform I will be removing myself for two hours (leaving the house or not answering the phone after hanging up for that period of time) and then re-engaging to listen without yelling.

I affirm my desire to listen, to know and understand. Yelling prohibits this...really does. The very essence of yelling is a short-cut in communication...to make the other person FEEL the feelings rather than know...and it doesn't communicate squat, really.

Same for children as for adults. Goes to my code, not situational nor dependent on person. Stranger, loved one, authority...all humans, same code...'cuz it's mine.

When you accept negative attention from WHex, then you are telling your self that you're dirt, last place, deserving of abuse and defective. Ouch. How dishonest to self...not true. Does a lot of damage inside and out...teaches your girls, also, they aren't worth respect...to not make self-respect a goal, either.

To choose to KNOW you exist, are separate and equal to everyone on the planet is to respect. A respectful belief, which you must apply equally, inside and out. To disrespect yourself IS to disrespect others...and to believe if you hurt therefore you are...well, that means you have to hurt others to make them know you exist, as well. And invites them to hurt you as a means to connect, to exist, to be present, as well.

Lots of ouches in that choice of belief. Just like those who physically cut, emotional cutting is the same thing...to have lived so fully through others, abandoning our defective selves, that the only thing which brings us back to our own existence is pain...well, that's our choice to believe...and to do...and to experience life that way. Not a mandate...not our only option. To stop living through others is the key...to shift our focus off them, onto ourselves, so we can experience life as whole, complete, marvelously made human beings in a world filled with like beings...who make great and terrible choices and their consequences.

You may be seen as rigid...you're not. You can choose to live from fear (fear of authority, consequences) which is another fantasy to control what you cannot (no human can)...or you can choose to live from love.

Can you learn to hear your DDs' opinions and repeat them for them, changing them from fact to opinions? Instead of trying to glimpse yourself in department store window's reflection...hear their definitions of themselves and repeat back as opinions they are...and define just you as you are, Jean. Teach your daughters through example that this is also within their power...a part of it...same with their limits...so you all can thrive together, understand choice, not personality...as if you were born rigid/proper/fearful...when you were not.

You can remove blame from your relationship and insert ownership (responsibility)...choose to believe that humans aren't problems...they have them. Listen to how they problem solve their stuff...and choose what is a problem and what isn't...choose their perceptions, thoughts, perspectives and beliefs, as well.

Funny thing about kids...when they see their parent avoid potential conflict, they take that as their parent avoiding them...that they aren't worthy, valuable or important enough to address...when really, the parent doesn't know how to connect in conflict; only through joy, happy, peace or acceptance. We choose to connect and disconnect for different reasons, in different ways. Most likely, you are teaching your girls the same things you were taught...though you've focused mightily on NOT doing what your folks did...or in the same way.

You remain whole, significant, you add to the world, Jean, whether you choose to believe that or not. If you choose not to see this in yourself, you cannot see it in your girls, your loved ones and friends. This built-in two-way street isn't within our control. It exists no matter what...like air. You can't change it. You just won't see where you are doing this to others, only yourself...trust me, you are. And I know that's not what you want.

Can you tell the difference between sharing and an argument? Getting clear on which is what goes a long way in healthy communication. Did you ever pick up that, "Between Parent and Child" I recommended by Eincott?

Do you remember your self-acknowledgment and delight? Where you crowed a bit of your own self-care and choices...the healthy holes you dug, enjoying your creativity and acts of love...acknowledging and owning your triumphs instead of focusing all on your failures? Bring back the crowing and sharing...might be what your DD8 perceives as curves...increasing acceptance of your entirety...increases them feeling accepted for their entire selves.

Don't know about steering with her knees, though...LOL!

You aren't letting them down, Jean. You are in a relationship with your DDs...and though you've been told you're all of it...mothers are all...you truly are only half...know your half...help them to see their half...that's the equality which goes missing from our parenting...taking total responsibility is an act of fantasy...they are half...you are half. They need to form their own healthy boundaries and do their boundary enforcements, as well. Because they are human. Like you.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

I think my screwed up boundaries is because I don't know what I want, only what I don't want. So my boundaries are dependant on what I want from that person. Or what I feel that person is capable of giving (which I realize is a DJ). I am basically saying that WHex is not capable of cashier kindness to me.

I never realized what a masochist I am.

I'll have to reread your post a few times to let is all sink in, thanks so much for the time you spend helping me sort through stuff.

Well, a new phase of my life has started. I officially went out on my first "first date" in over 15 years. I had no expectations, I just wanted to see if I could hold up my end of a conversation with a new person. I am very introverted.

But the experience did open a plethora of questions that I need to answer. What do I want, why do I "settle", what do I feel I deserve...

And it makes me angry at WHex for putting me in this position. I was so comfortable before. Aren't I selfish?

I was chatting with my sister today and she mentioned that WHex had talked to her hubby (WHe former best friend). It hurts so much, I don't want him around my life at all if he is not going to be in it. he alienated himself from everyone and I guess I liked it that way. I don't want him re-entering my social circle.

But I say I love him, if I loved him, I would want him to be happy and I would feel glad that he is starting to reach out to people again.

I don't want to hear that he is happy, I don't want to hear that he is miserable, the fact that he exists and chooses to stay away from me is too hard.

Is that over inflated ego? or just broken heartedness?

Hey Jean,

You are my garden lady. I thought about you when I was pulling weeds and planting some ti-leaf and tuberose plants. Now I got a heliconia to plant....let's see how long it takes me to kill this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


As for the Xwh talking to your BIL. That's ok. You didn't say he said he was happy. I always wonder when a WS says they are happy, why do they have to say it? To hear themselves or convince themselves?@!???! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Don't spend time on those thoughts. They are quite toxic.

Work on that yard and keep moving forward. The dating world would scare me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Still I know you are stronger and will find the right person.

Hugz,
L.

BIL didn't relay anything to me that WHex said, I nipped that conversation in the bud and told sis that I don't want to hear anything about WHex.

He just dropped off the kids, he bought YD a video camera for her birthday. Apparently , the girls videotaped daddy's house while he was napping so they could show me their fish and room at daddy's house. He got mad at them and they deleted the video.

So his life must not too great since he is adament that I don't see it. I know that I am getting better though. I used to have to take an anti-anxiety pill on Fridays and Sundays when I had to see him. I don't anymore, so that is progress.

The dating world scares me too. If I had my choice, I would be at home with my H. But... it is what it is. So I will take this opportunity to try to figure out some more stuff about myself-that is always loads of fun <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hi Jean

Back in the saddle again, huh.

I faintly recall those times of nervously anticipating going out with someone new, not that I did that more than a couple of times, because I met my husband when I was 16, lol.

I hated that self-conscience feelings and the awkwardness that accompanied those first meetings.

Just be yourself, Jean... One thing about dating when you are older, is that by then you have figured out who you are and you don't have to pretend to be someone your are not.

I want to hear all about your first date, please.......


((Jean)) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />