Thanks for the warning. I will be careful on the moddiness and baiting.

waiting, they ALL say they don't feel anything, so don't pay it any mind. Her feelings will come back as she goes through withdrawal as long as you stick to your program of attracting her back. You are doing great!

Well, another strange lunch today. Basically, she was unattached so to speak. She was there but seemed at a distance. After she finished eating we talked about some issues, nothing really deep. She left the office to run some errands and pickup our oldest from school.

She used to call me, text me all the time and tell me what was up. I rarely get info now. I guess that is a sympton of the affair...???

Something else strange happened yesterday afternoon. Before her hug and being nice. I could not find my sunglasses and thought they might be in her car before I left the house. We (my son and I) were running late for his ballgame and I came in to get her keys to look in her vehicle for them.

She beat me to the car and inside the car to help find them. (she was inside the house and just came in from picking up my youngest son from Cross Country practice) She seemed very helpful and "concerned" that I locate them. A few months ago, I would have just thought, she is helping me look for them and knows we are running late. I would not have been suspicous at all.

I cannot help the thoughts that are coming to my mind. Was there something in the car she did not was me to find? Phone card, extra cell phone (she already had one of these before the the OM bought and shipped her) (that is how I caught her), letter or am I just being parinoid.

My concern is Part 1) that if she is making progress, why muddy the water with either being caught snooping some more if there is nothing there, or worse yet, nothing there but hearing something I don't want to know about, ie complaints about me to another women, family member, etc...

and part 2) my wife is very very very stubborn. She would hold back extra hard if she was in contact, I think.

We are both strong willed and a bit prideful. I wonder if the sign I saw last night was genuine, affair is over and in NC mode and she is trying.

On the otherhand is it an act? Don't know. I am starting to sound skitzoid myself I guess.

Does anyone have any thoughts.

My WBF acted the same way after I had discovered his affair, I needed to get something out of his car, normally he would just give me the keys, but this time he went to the car himself. Later on I realised that this was where he was hiding his condoms - in the glove compartment.

I'm not saying your wife is hiding anything but keep your radar up.

Good point. Hope she is not hiding any condoms. I would rather find a cell phone again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have the same opinion as Melodylane - snooping

'It is a self protective measure that you must take and there is nothing wrong with it. You need the facts to make informed decisions'

Again - keep your radar up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bluntly, I'd be suspicious too...if I were you I'd make arrangements to snoop in her car HARD sometime soon. I would have been suspicious of something like that too...esp if it seems to be out of her normal behavior.

Well WIL, you know my opinion on snooping, but if I were in your shoes I would. So here are some tips from someone who has done it:

Get a small digital voice activated recorder. They can record up to 2-3 hours of conversation. Get a lot of batteries since you will have to change them every 2 days or so. Don’t get the old fashioned tape variety. Make too much noise. Place this under the passenger seat in your wife’s car – push it into the seat not on the floor... (This text is nearly verbatim from another MB member). This should be our first action. You can experiment in your own car with various places and positions. Costs less than $50. Cheap – easy – effective.

If you know her routine you can also place a hand-held GPS in her car. You can either buy one or borrow if from a friend who is into hunting or hiking. It will log all the car’s movement over the day and you can see whether she is where you expect her to be.

A friend placed a WebCam in a garage window connected to a laptop computer on a wireless network and used MSN to monitor his home entrance from work. When suspected OM came he went home to catch them in bed.

If she is computer savvy I would stay away from key logger programs. Meddle with virus protection.

I do stand by my warning that this can be a Pandora’s Box but like I said before - Extreme situations demand extreme measures.

waiting, does she communicate on the computer? Because I can help you fix the conflict with the virus program if you think it would be helpful.

I can't add anything to the great responses, get to snooping, my friend!

Came home from work, had supper. Whent upstairs to presumbly brush our teeth and bam. She started in on the book and how she has read it 5 or 6 times. She is a very fast reader. Anyway, she tells me she sees less hope now than before she read the book.

Basically, I tried to stay away from conversation but it was impossible. It went to her finally saying she could not keep trying anymore. She is tired of trying, she worked on this 4 yrs ago and we both slipped into old habits of me not letting her have her opinion, etc... and her not telling me it made her mad.

I asked her about the car situation and it was my birthday present she just ordered. I could tell by her reaction she was telling the truth. She is not a good liar. That is why I thought something was up back in June.

Anyway, I asked her if she was still following NC and she said she was, but that was not the problem. She has not been happy for 20 years and she is tired. I mentioned to her that I could show her letters, cards, emails, etc... to me that she has sent me of the last 20 yrs that would say otherwise. Basically, she did not want to see or hear about any of that. In fact she even said she wished she had not written one of them which was our 20 anniversary in Dec. card that basically was a long love note.

I tried to convince her the kids would be crushed. Told her our 12 yr old (his birthday on the 24th) would be crushed. Our 15 yr old would internalized and be very angry. I also told her I was afraid what might happen to any of us when God tried to get her attention. She did not want to hear any of that.

She threatened to drive somewhere (OM lives way out of town) and she would be back later. We went downstairs and if it could not get worse our youngest all but demanded to know what was going on. Basically she told him after a few minutes of talking that we were in counseling and she did not want to continue. She never said the divorce word, but he knew exactly what it meant. It was awful. Lots of crying, begging, reminding her she said she would never leave or divorce. That went on for about an hour. She called our very best friends and the wife came over and they talked in the car for 2 hours. She even talked to our pastor. Both of them were worried she would do something to herself because she felt like she wanted to disappear and die, but she also said she knows that that is wrong and something the kids would never get over.

One thing that threw her over the top was I told her the kids would want to know what happened all of the sudden. I told her they would her people talk and one of us would have to tell them about her A. I don't want that to happen, but I also don't want them to hear it somewhere else.

She slept with our youngest son, I in our bed last night. Longest night ever.

So far, our pastor, best friends only know about A and counseling. Well the kids know about counseling.

What should I do? She is still home, but she says because she feels I am blackmailing her with the revealing of the A to the kids, but also, being guilted by our children to stay.

This is totally crazy. Heck, I feel like disappearing.

I am crying typing this. She is taking the kids to school and I am waiting on her to come back. I don't feel like going to work. I was supposed to go off for some golf and socializing with some business partners this weekend, but don't feel like doing that and definately don't want to leave my sons in this situation.

Help me, Lord Help me. Please I can't see any hope. She can't see any hope and does not want to try.

MIL – are the two of you in MC?

The big issue now IMHO is to buy time. Decisions made now will always be made in such an emotional state.

You have dedicated a long time to each other. Could you convince her to try for six more months? That you go to intense MC, and try to rekindle your love? If she accepts this then act right away! Contact a MC, book a meeting and start working.

We just had a very emotional talk when she came home. We are both in MC. Have been to 3 or 4 sessions. I really can't remember exactly.

A few moments ago she at least agreed to go next week on the 18th ( my birthday ). That is when it is scheduled. She is carrying our youngest son to our pastor to talk and pray this afternoon and I asked her if we could both talk to him.

The only thing I have at the moment is until next week. She says she will not committ to work beyond that. She says she does not want to give me any false hope. I asked her if we worked things out, and had a good marriage after counseling what would she think of that. She said it would be wonderful and she has been waiting on that for 20yrs, but she does not see that happening.

Hopefully, she will follow through. I am just at a total loss.

I just wanted to chime in with a quick note of encouragement. Everyone here is offering great advice and all kinds of support. Hang in there and stay as strong as you can.

Loni

Remember that this "I've not been happy for 20 years" is all standard WS FOGSPEAK. She believes that right now too...she's re-written your marital history in her mind to justify what she's done. It's kind of a mental defense mechanism. Pretty much ALL WS's do this.

My wife did. We were married 17 years when she had her EA...and she told me (and the counselor) that she'd been unhappy for YEARS. So I called her on it in counseling...give me specifics. When/where/what. Of course she couldn't. So I gave her specifics...I KNEW that things were bad for the last year prior to her EA. And had been doing all that I could to work on it...but was limited because it predominately due to her depression (untreated), and excessive online gaming. I even pointed out to her when she'd actually started an EA with someone ELSE online towards the beginning of this bad time.

Of course, she was so foggy that at the time there was no way she could see what I meant. But once the A ended, and we began fixing things, within months it went from being "years and years" to being the same times that I knew...about a year prior to the start of the EA.

Looking back now, she can see how she'd viewed things so differently, but cannot understand what she was thinking at the time.

Your wife is likely doing the exact same thing...all you can really do about that is some of the same things I did...challenge her for specifics...and remind her of all the good things that happened. And allow time for her to get through the fog. That's about the only remedy I know for the re-written history issue.

Well after our discussion this morning and basically me begging for her to continue counseling, I went to the office and she soon followed.

On my way, I called another friend and told him all (they are stong Christians) and when I got to my office I told my brother who is my partner. (strong Christian also) To complicate things my wife works at our office also in accounting and we just hired her some help due to business growing.

Anyway, she stopped by her parents and told them. Of course her viewpoint is the A if not the problem but the sympton. Same as it has been for awhile. Her parents are concerned about the kids and told her they want her to do what she wants to do, (not a lot of help there) but if she is going to go to counseling, she needs to give it 100% and not pull what her sister did 2 years ago. ie fake it continue affair and then say the counseling did not work. At least I have that going for us.

I have asked her to view other peoples posts, she is over visiting the site anymore.

We are going to our pastor this afternoon to allow him to talk to our 12 yr old who is distraught. I asked her if she minded us talking to him also. Basically the answer I got was, I don't mind or i don't care.

I also asked her a little while ago if she still believed that NC was the best thing. She sighed and said yes.

Is this all normal?

Are we getting close to the peak? (withdrawel)

If she leaves home is that the end?

Do WS's remain true to NC and then come back later?

Is my WW being unusually stubborn?

Well, I guess this might be the final drive for a touchdown to try and win the game now. (touchdown = save the marraige)

We meet with our pastor for the 1st time yesterday. It was actually a meeting for our youngest son, but that only lasted about 20 minutes. We meet for 2 hours. Very hard stuff. I found out things about myself I probably already knew but did not want to admit and she did the same.

Pastor says I must drop anything about the affair once I truely reach forgiveness. He reminded her that she will have to remain in NC mode. All 3 of us cried a lot. Pastor included. (he is a personal friend also).

WS was a little more gentle and understanding last night. Actually we hugged and exchanged I Love U's this morning as she was going to her Med. Doctor appt.

I am resolved to the fact that I guess as the BS we almost become the punching bag / doormat / whatever you want to label it in order to try to save the marriage.

What I mean by that is, she will say somethings as she comes out of the "fog" that are constructive for me to work on, and others that mean absolutely nothing. That is the hard part.

Wife says she is in NC and I believe her but I am curious. I have the OM number and his Dad's number. Should I contact him to (I briefly yelled at him over the phone when my WW called him to tell him it was over) basically say stay away or I will call others he knows.

Should I call his Dad? I don't know either one of them personally.

Do I endanger (LB) any progress I have made with WW to this point by doing so?

If you haven't read everything, I found out on 9/10 and exposed to WW on 9/11? We are just now 4 weeks away and man, she is in and out of it. This morning, was terrible, she was moping around, looked all depressed, snapped at me. Last night at the the high school football game we went to, she was all smiles, had fun, really nice. It is just crazy.

I guess I just need someone to vent. Maybe I am whining. I don't know.

Thanks for listening, everyone.

First off, you have to recover from the betrayal of the affair and that will take some time, usually 12-24 months. You can't just "drop it." You must recover from it and you don't recover by just "dropping it." You have forgiven her, now she must help you recover from the damage she caused to you and your marriage.

I wouldn't suggest calling the OM or his dad if she is in no contact. Exposure means telling people WHO DON'T KNOW, not people who already know. I just don't see how it would help to call those folks.

Your W is going through what might be the mood swings of withdrawal.Just keep your eyes peeled and watch your back, my friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes, I get such mixed emotions from WW that I just walk around in a daze. Don't know what to do. I feel like giving up.

I told our kids I would never give up as long as we are married. Why can't she see what she is doing to everyone.

How do you overcome distructive thoughts? I want to bash the OM's head in. I know that is wrong, but I just feel that way.

I can't stand the thought of my wife leaving and some other man with her.

Why is that?

I also walk around and see other couples and mourn for what used to be normal in my life.

God, why can't this end and we all get back on track?

I have a question. What do you do in order to add Love Deposits, when the WW does not want any.

What I mean is I am supposed to let her know I love her, but she tells me she is irritated if I try to hold her hand, cuddel in bed, tell her I love her. Am I doing more harm by doing that or should I just avoid doing those things and hope her feelings come back or is this just fog?