When she asked me why I would wonder about the dresses I told her pretty much the same thing above.


Deoderant under the sleeves, dirt on the bottom of the long one and the short one is jet black and you can tell it has been worn and just looks "not clean". Not like wrinkled, not clean, but like it has been worn outside, which is what happens at this show. The whole event is outside in late August. Temps in the 90's, 70-80% humidity. I am not making excuses for her at all, but it is likely.


I am sure she told him and others that she could no longer call from her cell phone because I was freaking out about her talking to OM's. She probably painted me as being over bearing, jelous, etc...

Thanks for asking. My ears, and eyes are open though. I am just trying to separate the wheat from the chaff or the bull from the bull$hit if you know what I mean.

Go Horns !!!

Hi Waiting,

If I remember right, you were saying she was already dressed up looking really nice when she left your home for the Christmas party . So I don't think the dresses have anything to do with the Christmas party.

They were probably worn for the horse shows.

Lady

Yes, that is what she said. She was dressed very nice. In fact she looked wonderful that night and she said today that many people complimented her on the outfit. I remember her saying that on that night. Thanks for jogging my memory. I am hoping there are signs of recovery and she is just tired of the whole ordeal and will come around very soon.

WOL

I hope so too Waiting. Lord knows you've waited long enough.

Blessings,
Lady

Okay, Waiting, you've got it covered. I'm still trying to imagine formal wear at a horse show but I'll take your word for it. All I have to go on are rodeos here in Texas. "Formal" at those events means blue jeans that don't have holes in them, if you know what I mean.

Also, remember that just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people out to get me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Our "formal" wear at our horse races, ie: Lone Star, Ruidoso, El Paso is nice wranglers, a jacket and your best ostrich boots with a Stetson. No telling what these yankees do at these events. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I understand. Unfortunately it is not a horse race and the kind of horses are not really what most Texans would think much of. TN Walking, English saddles just riding around the ring being judged on gaits and looks. Pretty boring. I prefer and horse race, steeple chase or rodeo myself. BTW, GA is below the Mason Dixon too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just having fun. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Can you ever forgive me for blaspheming a Georgian?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

most assuredly so. Heck we are from the same lineage practically. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I sure hope you guys be Bama today. Go Red Raiders !!!

We had a big relationship talk last night and she is still on the stump. She says OM is not in the picture and not interested in affection from anyone right now. Arrggghhhh !!! So much babble last night.

Today she seems better. She is printing pics of our dogs and talking about doing some black and whites and putting them over our fireplace. What blows my mind is we are so normal during the day and with discussions about stuff in the house and with the kids but she just doesn't seem to be able to get off the stump.

I told her last nigh that she has to understand the hard spot I am in. She has at least 2 Men (OM and Me) that want to be wth her. She has it made. I am sitting here with no knowledge that the one I love most wants to have something to do with me. She says she is not physically attracted to me now. She says there are tons of women that would want to be with me if I allowed it. I told her i don't want anyone else. The one I want is her. I just don't know what to believe and what to just classify as babble.

I am just hoping things change soon. I am so starved for affection and physcial contact. I could just scream at times. When I go to town and see other women I just cringe thinking about starting all over. Not that there are nice looking women or women that would make fine companions, I just don't want anyone else other than my SoulMate. We used to call each other soulmates. Now she acts as if I am almost a neighbor visiting for the evening.

I guess I just need to have more patience.

Well we are watching the football game tonight and WW after kids go to bed makes an anouncement that her Mom asked her to go to the Mountians this weekend and she is probably going to go.

She did not ask me what I thought about it, can see, would it be a problem, no, she just said it the same way she would tell me she was going to a horse show. I know now this is Ind. Behavior and a LB. Before, I thought I had to just say, ok, because I did not want to appear as being controling.

I immediately talked to her about the way she brought it up to me and not presenting it in a manner that is not a LB to me. I asked her, why not say something like, My mom asked me to go to the mountians and I would like to go. Would that be ok with you, or would you mind, I would really enjoy it. Something like that. Anyway, she did seem to get what I was saying, but I also told her I did not feel comfortable with her going to the Mountians (OM would be within 2 hrs of where they go) because I still do not know if I am comfortable with it because it would be too easy for her to meet up with OM. We had a lot of talk about that. I then mentioned that I was going to ask her about the following weekend because our boys are going to be at a church camp.

I told her I would love to carry her to the mountians the next weekend. She wants nothing to do with that. Does not want to have any special time with me at all. I asked her why and she says she just does feel like she wants to spend time with me. I told her that is very hurtful to hear because at one time she said I was her soulmate and best friend and now she does not want to even hold my hand. She says because she doesn't have that feeling to do it.

I asked her if she was happy in the state she was in at the moment. In limbo. She says no, she doesn't like being in limbo. I asked her then WHAT WAS HER PLAN TO GET OFF THE STUMP. She said she guessed she did not have one.

I asked her were she thought she would be in June if we continue the way we are going. She did not have an answer.

She is also very anti SH still. Says she feels suicidal after speaking with him. I asked her why and she said he told her to have sex with me even if she did not want to. That is honestly what she said. She said she should want to have SF and not be told to do so because someone thinks it is the right thing to do.

All I know is I told her I am tired and if she was hurting and needed something, that I would come running. I told her she is like an alien. Someone I really don't know at the moment. I guess this is the starting over of withdrawel or fog or something other than recovery.

WOL

WOL,

I think you need to give your WW more space and should pressure her less just in case she is indeed in withdrawal. Not fair, I know, but this does take time.

I am suspicious about your WW's trip, though. Could you confirm it with her mom? In any event, you may want put some recording device in her car to see if she ends up being with OM? Just a thought.

I hate conspiracy theories and think seeing darkness in every corner is one of the biggest stumbling blocks in reconciliation. I therefore suggest the following with a rather heavy heart.

So far you have thought your FIL was in some way enabling the affair. Is it possible that it actually is MIL?

The reasons I suggest this are: FIL illness. Maybe MIL is taking over more and more of his affairs including selecting the trainer (OM). At the least MIL may have some input on the selection. SIL and her actions: A very special bond can exist between sisters and their mothers. Maybe all three of them talk about this and are aware of the situation.

UVA I aggree, I am going to have to give some more space. Not because I am smothering her, but because I am getting so tired. I am exhausted trying to be the husband she needs and not receiving anything in return.

Regarding the trip with her Mom, she would not risk going without her as we all live so close to each other and it would be too easy for me to find out her Mom did not go. I don't trust my wife though at this point. It would be too easy for my WW to tell her Mom, " I think I am going to go shopping for a couple of hours while you nap" or something like that and meet up with OM. I would hope she would not but you know how WS's are when in withdrawel.

Bigger,

I hear you, but my MIL is not capable of doing such a thing. She is very very simple minded and not capable of balancing a check book much less taking over his business affairs and changing where his horses go. As a matter of fact if it was up to my MIL they would not have any horse to train anyway. She really does not like going and only does so to be with her husband. She grips about it all the time.

I appreciate the suggestion though because without knowing what I just mentioned it would seem a plausable idea.

One thing I do aggree with is the bond between the mom and sister with her and possibly the MIL knowing more.

Who knows. Also, supposedly FIL has asked my wife for his cell phone back and she had to tell him I had it and why. My WW said she told all again and they were disappointed in her and she told them she did not want to discuss it with her. I am going to give FIL his cell phone back today.

Being honest about your feelings rather than staying silent is a step in the right direction. However, the way you describe what you told her sounds an awful lot like you were trying to educate her instead of negotiating for a mutually acceptable solution which is a LB on your end in the disrespectful judgement area. Rather than putting words in her mouth ie. handing her a script of how you'd prefer her to ask (which does appear to be on the controlling side of behavior) you might be better off telling her how you feel about the way she approached you and then asking if you two can talk about a different way of managing these conversations. THEN, if she asks what you're looking for, you can offer her a script and give her the opportunity to reject it.

I take it that your wife has complained that you're controlling. Look at this exchange from her point of view. You've told her that she is to use specific words that you like to frame her requests to you instead of the phrasing that comes naturally to her. Would you say that would reinforce or reduce her view of you as controlling? I am not saying that you shouldn't mention that her phrasing bothers you and ask her to change it. I am saying that her input is absolutely 100% important in how that new phrasing comes out and by jumping straight to giving her a script, you haven't left her much room except to argue why she doesn't want to say what you seem to want her to say. (By leaving the question open ended until she responds or giving her time to think about how to say things differently, it leaves the door open for you to hear her opinion.)

Offering to take her the next weekend was a great idea! It's too bad she wasn't enthusiastic about it.


This is important. All through many of your conversations, I keep getting the impression that you both keep going around the same mulberry bush. You keep asking her why she doesn't treat you a certain way - she keeps asserting she doesn't have the feelings to treat you that way.

My question to you is why do you keep asking? Since you know how she feels at this moment (and you also know feelings can and do change) why expect her to treat you as though she has loving feelings towards you when she has said about as clearly as she can that she doesn't? Do you think she feels you're not listening to what she says and that's why you keep asking the question (and seeming to be surprised by her answer)? If nothing else, she's been quite consistent in that message, don't you think?

Look, feelings change. Right now this is how she's feeling. Asking her to disregard those feelings, put them aside, and do different actions may help her regenerate feelings. But, coming from you it might indicate to her that you are disregarding her feelings, think they're unimportant, and want her to act like you want her to act regardless of whether or not it makes her abjectly miserable. I think she NEEDS that message (act loving) but I also think YOU are not the one to give it to her because when it comes from you it sounds manipulative and like you have ulterior motives.

My suggestion would be that you become the champion of her feelings. Change your approach. For example: Instead of asking her up to the mountains for the weekend then asking why she doesn't want to go (and ending up in the whole rehash of why don't you have feelings and when are you going to get them back conversation) mention it up front. Head her off at the pass. I know you're not feeling romantic towards me right now. Still, the mountains are beautiful this time of year and I'd like to go up there if you're willing to go next weekend. I won't pressure you or expect anything romantic from you because I understand how you feel but it would feel nice to get away for just a little while.

This is much like when you told her not to sleep with you because she wasn't feeling ready. (I liked that move. )


This part of the conversation is just pure pressure on your part. It's probably not going to get you where you want to go. She won't make a decision until she's ready. Although, you can certainly make your own decisions.


Right. I don't believe for a moment that is what S.H. told her to do. He probably told her to act loving towards you to try to behave her way to success and she heard "You must have sex with him even if it's emotionally painful for you." Which is why it's going to be much, much, MUCH better if she hears those messages from someone else - Steve, for example. Hearing them from you makes you the enemy right now and, since you're in Plan A, that's not where you want to be.

Back off on some of the pressure - like continuing to ask pointed questions after she's all ready waving the white flag in the conversation (HINT: "I don't know." was a white flag) - it won't do you any good. Become a champion of her feelings - give her the impression that what she tells you STICKS in your mind and behave in a way that's mindful of her feelings (with regard to your relationship.. obviously not in regard to OM) even if those feelings are painful to you right now. What you want to do is create the impression that you listen, that her feelings are important to you, and that you can acknowledge them because they are her reality right now. That doesn't mean they can't change - but if you act like they don't exist as a method of changing them - then they'll never get fully addressed and processed. At best, you'll just be coating them over with a thin venier of action that doesn't go all the way down to the core.

I think you'll get much further, much faster if you treat her feelings as though they are SERIOUS and REAL to you. And, you're so confident that they can change that you're not afraid to act as though they are really happening right now. (Don't live in the past or in the future, live in the present). Take away her cause by becoming her feeling's champion. Once she doesn't have to constantly defend her feelings, she's going to have to find some other objection.

Just my $.02,

Mys

Wow Mys,

You really put a lot of thought in what you said. I appreciate you $.02 worth.

I did not phrase my statement to her quite as bad as it sounded. I did do more of what you said, but not enough. I can see how that would appear as a LD/DJ on my part. I just have to learn how to communicate better. I have not been honest in the past with her. I would actually clamp down on my words and not say anything, then I would get mad and later cause LBer's. I just have to gain more skill. I don't have a lot more energy, maybe I can recharge my batteries somehow.

Why do I keep asking her how she feels? I guess I just hope to hear something good. I just have to accept that her feelings have not changed and I am just going to have to deal with it.

I also aggree with you. I know SH did not tell her to have SF with me. I think he probably said try to meet my needs, but not in the way she is taking it.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I think I am going to take your advice.

However; Venting time on my part below -

At the moment I am just really mad, frustrated, pick the word, and really just tired of trying. I AM NOT GIVING UP, but just tired right now. She shows no signs of appreciating anything, I am tired of checking behind her, I am tired of her babble, I am tired of most everything about her at this very moment in time.

I will just back off some and as I think someone put it about a week ago. Trying to meet her EN's at this point shortly after 2nd d-day is not going to mean much, so I am going to Plan A, but not as aggressively it that is possible.

I just had to vent. Sorry guys.

WOL

I just had a minute ago an interesting call from my wife. It was not exactly a call but a text message that she called the church as was going to talk to our pastor.

I called her to see if she was ok and she said yes. She thought is was ok to go see our pastor and I said absolutely but I was concerned that something might be wrong. She said no that to be honest her relationship with God is 1000% better than it has been in a long long time and she is ok.

On the surface all of this might sound good that she is going to talk to our pastor, but to be honest, I have this sinking feeling that she may be seeking advice on how to handle me if she is going to break the news that it is over. I don't know why I feel this way, but I do.

Am I being paranoid. If her relationship with God is much better, then our marriage is the only thing left to discuss and if it was anything positive she was thinking about, why wouldn't she mention it to me.

I don't know. I guess this post is just reflective in what my emotions are going through for now.

Today is our son's 16th birthday, so after today, there is nothing in the near future on the calendar to ruin for someone if she is going to leave.

Any thoughts?

Every time you feel the urge, I want you to picture in your mind a movie or one of those commercials with the annoying kid in the back that keeps saying "Are we THERE YET?!" through out a long trip. Maybe then you'll have a reason to smile at the humor while you bite your tongue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Yep. SF was probably an example of one of your emotional needs and, in her current state of mind, she automatically chose the absolute hardest one as a good reason why she can't meet ANY of your needs. It's not a problem you have to solve, however. I'd just be utterly shocked if he came out and told her to have sex with you against her will. In fact, if it were me, I'd challenge things like that (now there's a good place to challenge) by saying "Oh! My goodness. Steve actually said the words that you should have sex with me against your will? How utterly shocking. I'll have to ask him about that."

Then if it becomes "Well, he said I should meet your needs.." you can offer up that she can meet other needs rather than sex if she's becoming suicidal at the thought of doing it. Go to her rescue a little.


Once again, examine your expectations. Do you really think it's heathy for you to expect her to be appreciative at this time? I mean... *sighs* I know you're at the end of your rope so I'm going to try to be gentle but all this recent talk on this thread about keeping her on a leash.. and a short one at that probably translates into an attitude that makes you less than pleasant to be around right now. And, yes, I know it's just a figure of speech but really think about those words "Keep my wife on a very short leash" and try and reconcile how you'd be feeling towards a person that expressed that sort of attitude about YOU. Personally, I'd feel more like a pet than a wife and I'm not really all that keen on being someone's female dog. (all right, sorry, mini rant but that type of talk always upsets me because I just have these visions that most people would never say such disrespectful things to another person's face and yet use those phrases liberally here - venting is fine to a point but when it solidifies a bad attitude, I think it's not serving it's purpose. /rant off) Anyway, right now she feels like she's under a microscope because she IS! and whether or not she deserves it, that's a very unpleasant place to be. It's hard to appreciate that type of behavior when it happens in the moment - though appreciation might come later. It's like an alchoholic or drug abuser might not appreciate having his or her fix taken away until after they are sober a while.

And, I do understand that if you did what she did you think you'd feel remorseful - and maybe you would - but right now she's lost in her own confused state and she isn't sure what she should be sorry about.

Anyway, my point is that exposure and such are not exactly good things in her book at this point in time. She's unlikely to appreciate them and that will color all the rest of what you do. I think your idea of scaling back and conserving your energy to when it will be better received is a very, very good one. (Oh, and maybe tone down some of the rhetoric about leashes especially if you ever want her to come read here.. because.. yikes!)


Do you not think your pastor's answer will be "Get back in there, roll up your sleeves, and work on your marriage?"


A little paranoid, probably. For one thing, you seem to assume your pastor will help her out of your marriage. Is that a valid assumption? For the other thing, you seem to think she thinks you're easy to talk to right now. Given the amount of pressure you applied just a short time ago, I think you might want to consider that she doesn't want to be pressured about things she's unsure about right now. You're not holding a very good track record at toning it down at the moment. I don't mean that as chastisement - just as an observation. I might be wrong.


Take a deep breath. Get some exercise to work out some of your excess energy and stop trying to second guess everything. Even if she tells you it's over - it ain't really over till the fat lady sings and all the ink has dried. You have lots of time and there will be lots of bumps to weather in the future. I know it's hard but try to take care of YOURSELF physically and try not to obsess too much emotionally.

I'm so sorry for your pain.

Mys

Mys,

Thanks so much for all the perspective. I guess I just was seeing the end of my rope and thrashing around a bit.

Regarding the short lease statements (not good ones I aggree), I meant, keep and eye on things and be aware of deception, sneaking around, etc... Not really keeping her pinned up. But I do get your point.

No I don't think our pastor will encourage her to leave, but I just had a bad feeling. Probaly a DJ on my part. I will not mention it to her. If she wants to talk about it I will.

I love the "Are we there yet? scnerio. It made me laugh. Sounds pretty silly on my part when you see it from that angle.

I am breathing a little better. Thanks for the session. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the reality check.

Waiting, what's happening on the exposure front?