Reading more from Codependent No More and this jumped out at me. 'If you believe that feeling bad or worrying long enough will change a fact, then you are residing on another planet with a different reality system.' (quoted from Dwayne Dyer Your Erroneous Zones

Worrying and obsessing keep us so tangled in our heads we can't solve our problems. Whenever we become attached in these ways to someone or something, we bcome detached from ourselves. We lose touch with ourselves. We forfeit our power and ability to think, feel, act and take care of ourselves. We lose control.

Bingo! As I have slowly learning to detach and self soothe I have become more aware of myself and the world around me. I have been able to take care of business and not think about my WH constantly. I no longer obsess about the OW. The funny result from the little ways I have been detaching was the realization of the impact on my WH. Now he is cooking meals, helping clean house, helping with the kids and is no longer shutting down or running away. I used to just freak anytime he needed anything. I would jump if he couldn't find his keys or wanted something from the kitchen. Or I would say 'no, no I will do it". Now I just ignore his rantings and let him figure things out for himself. Feels good.

hi FF, interesting quote. i don't believe that feeling bad or worrying long enough will change any facts, but i do it anyway!!!

boy is that ever true for me!!!

just thought i would tell you that. as you probably already know, i have just gotten my IC sessions authorized again.

control... funny word. sometimes i hear i need to learn how to control more (like what was written above) and sometimes i hear i need to let go of trying to control everything. which is it??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LOL. Actually both. Control yourself but not others. I am working on an exercise in the book:

1. Learn to recognize when you are reacting.

2.Make yourself comfortable. What works best for me is to walk away and busy myself with the dishes, laundry or even logging onto MB sometimes. The book says to say or do as little as possible until your restore your peace and serenity. Takes you out of the chaos.

Worry and obsession sucks up your life.

Once you decide to stop worrying, you have all this lovely free time with which to LIVE.

Most addicts (alcohlics/WSes, whatever) need that part of the relationship where the other person worries. Worry gives control over to the addict, and of course they know it. They all have an inate sense of when their spouse suddenly detaches ~ they sense the loss of control in the relationship.

This is why they will do anything and everything, bullying, threatening, button-pushing ~ whatever it takes to get the detaching growing spouse back into a comfortable spot where they can continue to do what they want.

Eventually, the addict either gives up and goes on to find an easier partner, or they change and start growing themselves.

This is why I stress so much about changing yourself, and its resulting change to the relationship.

If you change yourself, the dynamic of the relationship MUST change, and at that point it becomes clear whether a marriage can or can not change.

BR, I read the part in the book where the alcoholic admitted to being controlling "and did a good job of it". I was so stunned that he was aware of what he was doing. I can see that in my WS now. Awareness is a good step for me. Last night I did a great job of stepping back and not reacting to my WH. He honestly did not know what to do. All this time I thought I was the controlling one but by trying to control him...he has been controlling me. sheesh...

aah well.

Dysfunctional relationships usually contain 2 controllers, not just one. Thats why its a dance.

So what happens when one decides the "dance" is over? I decided to sit this one out.

Well,

it takes 2 to tango.

So if one sits out...

The dance is now over.

This doesn't mean that you can't both decide to learn a new dance.

But you can't learn a new dance while doing a tango! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sitting out the tango means that you've opened the door to all kinds of opportunity - it opens that door to peace and healing, with or without the old dance partner.

Thank you. That is what I am aiming for. Looks like it will be without my dance partner though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I am sad. He holds onto me by letting my stupid stubborn brain believe we are possibly healing and not getting the D while all along it was his ploy to keep me meeting his EN's while he looks forward to the D. Dance over, game over. He started to walk out last night and I let him. Turned over and went to sleep! Guess who came back? Guess who couldn't figure out why I was not crying, pleading, begging, yelling, cursing ....??

I AM healing. Slowly cuz of my stubborn attachment to him.

Oh and you know what? I felt BETTER after he left.

Hmmmm...well...

The old dance partner is not going to attempt a new dance without complete utter belief that the you will never ever dance the old dance again.

This takes time. A lot of time.

In otherwords, he's going to spend sometime trying to figure out where you moved your buttons so he can be in charge again.

Don't show him.

Let it go, and see what God has planned for you. Its probably way kewler than you had planned for yourself.

gotcha. Thanks. I am beginning to believe that my life will be better. I hurt, I have many regrets and I hate to see my kids hurt. But I am done with this dance. I have to trust God knows what he is doing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

More from Codependent No More It is very hard for me to accept help or allow my needs to be met. I am getting better at it. Having a special needs child means you have to accept help. You cannot do it all yourself. I have many times found myself angry or resentful from giving, giving, giving and not being "appreciated" for it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

FF

I utterly identify with this:

It is very hard for me to accept help or allow my needs to be met. I am getting better at it.

But here is a cautionary tale:

Squid and I have been languishing in a mire for a while. Nan's continuing to decay whilst steadfastly refusing to die, Squids shame and instant withdrawal at any mention of or trigger about her affair and my taker locked up for MONTHS now all conspiring to make for a frustrating and unpleasant time.

I posted on recovery that I needed some investment in ME from Squid. Not in our marriage, not in 'recovery' but in ME !

Efforts to be affectionate, efforts to make me feel special, apologies etc .

I want to feel appreciated so I can keep up my recovery efforts.

But I had to keep my taker locked up because of all teh [email]cr@p[/email] on Squid's plate right now.

A couple of wise people advised me that Squid may feel that she has nothing to offer me that I need now. I'm so all fired investing and need-meeting, where can frightened, timid litle Squid's taker actually add any value to this mean, lean marriage-savin' machine ?

So I tried.

Let my taker out on a leash; " Baby you heal my heart when you try to make me feel special".

And in response to Squid's question " what can I get you for Christmas?" I replied " a chequebook for hugs and kisses".

And you know what? Squid has sterted investing in ME. A bit clumsy, as she is not used to this, buts she IS. And it feels great ! Also it seems to be helping Squid to know that she can add value to my life: that she can have a unique, positive effect on my life.

My being vulnerable to wanting her investment also made me AVAILABLE to her investment.

My point is that being willing to accpet the help, or investment from others actually strengthens both giver and taker.

I hope that makes sense.

Its a balance: do not be overly dependent on anyone, and strive to be self-actualised BUT do not shut down the investment of others either.

This 'life' stuff's hard ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You're doing GREAT my friend. GREAT and I'm proud of you.

FF,
I don't know if this is of any use. I know your issue is slightly different, its more about detaching (my issue too...). When I read Bob's post it came to mind.

Personal growth for those who are givers (from the Enneagram Institute).

1. First and foremost, remember that if you are not addressing your own needs, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to meet anyone else's needs without problems, underlying resentments, and continual frustration. Further, you will be less able to respond to people in a balanced way if you have not gotten adequate rest, and taken care of yourself properly. It is not selfish to make sure that you are okay before attending to others' needs&#8212;it is simply common sense.


2. Try to become more conscious of your own motives when you decide to help someone. While doing good things for people is certainly an admirable trait, when you do so because you expect the other person to appreciate you or do something nice for you in return, you are setting yourself up for disappointments. Your type has a real danger of falling into unconscious codependent patterns with loved ones, and they almost never bring you what you really want.


3. While there are many things you might want to do for people, it is often better to ask them what they really need first. You are gifted at accurately intuiting others' feelings and needs, but that does not necessarily mean that they want those needs remedied by you in the way you have in mind. Communicate your intentions, and be willing to accept a "no thank you." Someone deciding that they do not want your particular offer of help does not mean that they dislike you or are rejecting you.


4. Resist the temptation to call attention to yourself and your good works. After you have done something for others, do not remind them about it. Let it be: either they will remember your kindness themselves and thank you in their own way or they will not. Your calling attention to what you have done for them only puts people on the spot and makes them feel uneasy. It will not satisfy anyone or improve your relationships.


5. Do not always be "doing" for people and above all do not try to get people to love you by giving them either gifts or undeserved praise. On the other hand, do not pointedly withdraw your service when others do not respond to you as you would like. Do not make what you do for others depend on how they respond to you. Help others when they ask for it, especially helping them to become more capable of functioning on their own.

faithful ~ we codpendents are a nasty lil bunch <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pride keeps us from asking for help.

Those we help....we help because it makes us feel yes, appreciated, but, under that, we feel superior.

Asking for help levels the playing field and makes us equal with others.

Fear also keeps us from asking for help. We help others over and over, to get that 'fix' of apprectiation and superiority ~ but deep down inside, we believe that we are also not worthy of others help, and if we ask for help, others will KNOW that we aren't superior. Oops, there comes pride again!

Asking for help, acknowleding my needs, and accepting other's assistance was a huge part of my recovery.

Bob and smur, I will respond to your wonderful posts later as I am not feeling well. BR, wanted to tell you that much of what I learned recently about asking for help and accepting assistance has been from seeing other's I respect like Pep ask openly for help on these boards. I also have friends IRL that have encouraged me to ask for help. They have helped me realize that I am giving others a ~gift~ by allowing them to help me.

HI FF!!! been thinking about you. i'm sorry you are not feeling well today.

{{{FF}}}

{{{{{{{{{FF}}}}}}}}}}}

How I wish Squid and I were your neighbours FF.

* Wonderful Counsellor, I pray you site a hedge of Angels to protect dear friend FF and her family from assaults physical or spiritual at this time. And that you pour your peace, strength and faith into FF to sustain her unto new joy.

Amen. *

bob, that is really nice!!!