My story seems to be somewhat typical. Obviously I hadn't been fulfilling my wife's emotional needs (affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment, etc.) Obviously she was draining my "love bank", but at that time it was less obvious to me. Now things have progressed too fast too far!<P>Her affair started about 10 months ago.<P>Guy on Internet. He (paramour) had similar problems with his wife (yes he is still married.. it's his second.) Wife and paramour met after about a month and got it on hot and heavy.<P>I found out 6 months ago.<P>One month later my wife wanted an immediate divorce (with kids, alimony, child support… the works) unquestionably entering the "withdrawal" phase VERY VERY fast. Almost no "conflict stage"!<P>I wanted to protect the kids (17yo boy, 10yo boy, 7yo girl) … so I filed counter claim to the divorce…I was geared up for a big custody battle… since keeping the kids with me was originally my main goal… saving my marriage was second (but virtually equal) goal.<P>I kept on the high road the whole time. I originally asked forgiveness from her 2 to 3 times total. I shortly stopped that when I saw no progress. There were only 3 times over 5 months when I "blew up"(Love Buster) at her (those were the only times!) I was, and have always been forgiving her. I tell her many times I forgive her and will take her back, but the more I say it the angrier she becomes.<P>At the end of August she gave up on kids since she could not get custody of the kids based on judgments of the courts (wanted to move with kids out of state to live with paramour.) So, 4 ½ weeks ago she moved out by herself based on preliminary oral agreement we made. I gave her a total of $10,000.00 for (1)her to get set up in apartment, and for (2) ½ of amount due to her for buying out the house. She said she could no longer live with me (it was unbearable for her.) She wanted every other weekend visitations (no more than every other weekend!)<P>Almost immediately after moving out, her sponge(paramour) has moved into her apartment.<P>I most certainly want her to come back to me and the kids. We never got to the point of being able to set up "The Policy of Joint Agreement"… she just wanted away from me ASAP.<P>Now for my dilemma…I don't know whether I should continue to press for the divorce or not! I still want to let my wife know I will take her back!<P>It seems like if I continue with the divorce… what I ask for in the Property Settlement Agreement will lead to being "love busters" ("disrespectful judgments", and "selfish demands" from her point of view as she need $$$ to continue affair) We are "trying" to settle without much attorney influence to save money.<P>Should I just cease the divorce proceedings altogether…?<BR>If so, will I risk losing the kids (now that she does have a new job in the new state)…?<P>Should I "cave in" to her on financial matters (no love busters?)… <BR>or stand my ground (have no contact with her)…?<P>Am I still at the point where I should give her a love bank still (I AM able to continue)…?<BR>Or because of the necessity of completing the divorce…<BR> eliminate all contact and let my attorney do it all?<P>ANY SUGGESTIONS?<BR>

NSR you want your wife back. I know you want to protect the kids, but I would slow down. Give the affair a chance to die. Is there a way to get a separation agreement without completing the divorce? Why do you have to be the one to press for divorce? A divorce is a big lovebuster in itself, don't worry about lovebusting in the divorce do what you feel is right for you and the kids. If she will be under financial strain so be it, perhaps that will bring her back to reality. I would think that you should look at a plan B.

You sound very confused and sad. This must be very hard for you. This may not be what you want to hear, but I believe you should take some measures to protect yourself financially. I hope you aren't seeing protecting yourself as love busting. Even though you love her, you can't leave yourself vulnerable either. As far as being willing to take her back...you are very strong. That is going to have to be your decision based on how long you can or are willing to wait if there isn't any indication it is paying off. Make sure whatever decision you make, you take care of yourself and your children. Wish I could be more helpful.

NSR, being married to an attorney, I can agree with Lynn, you need to protect yourself and your children from this as much as possible. While you are trying to decide on which way to go I do have to say that you need to at least see an attorney for an initial consultation (Most attorney's give this one free) and ask them what they believe is the best way to go. I know alot of attorneys and even though they do divorces most of them would MUCH rather see you work things out then go through with it. They will tell you what you need to do to protect yourself and the kids and still give your wife the open door to come back to that you want. It sounds as though you already have had an attorney for the children and he/she should advise you where you stand without it running you too much more. You need to look at the big picture and sometimes your too close to it to do so, get him to do the hard work for you and God Bless you!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<BR>

Thank you for your kind words... one and all.<P>Just a few points of clarification...<P>I don't want the divorce... ever!<BR>My wife is insisting, and because custody of the kids is at issue, I had to counter file.<P>If I feel Plan A is the best yet...<BR>But do I just do nothing with the divorce...?<BR>Wait until she forces the issue...?<P>I am sad about all of this...<BR>but I have taken measures to protect myself financially (escpecially for the kids!)<P>I already do have a very good attorney...<BR>He understannds I want my wife back AND that I need to protect myself and the kids financially. He too knows this is a very difficult balancing act. He says the ball is in my court as to what I do (Plan A, Plan B, or just go through with legalities.)<P>I am completely new to "Marriage Builders." I just found this site yesterday, and am going to rush out of the house to pick up "Surviving an Affair", and "His needs, Her Needs:". Some more background beside what is on the Internet will help me decide on Plan A or Plan B.<P>I've jotted down some more specific questions that have crossed my mind...<P>If while working on Plan A… wife(spouse) hates my loving attitude, and the excruciatingly consistent message that I forgive her. This drives my spouse up the wall… and then of course she curses me to the hilt. She feels that I lack the reason/rationality to see that the marriage is "over", from her point of view. (remember she just moved out 1 month ago!) Do I still continue with Plan A…? When is there the time (or a sign ) that I need to go to Plan B? Is there such a thing as being too moral (religious fanaticism) to the spouse? I.e. using "faith" as one reason that I will take her back (she was once sooo religious too.)<P>There is now the problem of working through the divorce Property Settlement Agreement (since divorce started to save kids from spouse's lover.) This itself seems to be a love buster of "Disrespect and Demands" since she will see this haggling over financial issues as disrespectful and demanding. How do I handle this? Can I?<P>Should divorcing her (completing papers... Property Settlement... etc.) be a step in Plan B... or Do I do NOTHING? <P>Plan B is a problem, since I have custody of the kids and am expected by the courts to "be nice" when making plans (like visitations.) How do you "eliminate all contact" until she leaves her lover?<P>God bless you all for being there.

NSR it sounds like you are still comfortable doing plan A so do it. I understand you only go to plan B when you can't stop lovebusting. I do think I would stop saying I forgive her, since that might be construed as judgemental and seems to set her off.<P>It seems you have done everything to protect you and the kids. Since you are getting books also read "Private Lies" by Frank Pittman. Someone included an extract on another thread which may help.<P>The hardest thing you have to do is to stop yourself financing her affair without seeming like you don't care about her. Did your verbal agreement include any regular finacial support? I would try to keep that to a minimum to increase the pressure on the 2 affairees.<P>The divorce sounds like it will take care of itself without you pushing it along. Concentrate on your plan A and make sure she sees that if she decides to come back she will be safe with you.

NSR- I so agree with awoken, what bothers me though is you are saying she is angry with your forgiveness. It seems as though we are all passionate people and maybe her anger isn't what it seems to be. Maybe she's angry with is actually herself and not really you, she just doesn't know it. How many times I have lashed out at my H without realizing it was actually myself I was angry with because I knew him to be in the right. It sounds funny I know but it's true. It sounds as though she is terribly confused and maybe pushing you away? Does she have some self esteem problems? Maybe she feels your too good for her, or maybe her guilt is causing her to work in this way. How does she react to the idea of counselling? Maybe if you told her that it wasn't to work on the two of you but to work out some less angry ways of discussing things to better the kids situation? That is what my H did, he wanted to make our communication better because of the kids and then he found out later that it actually was what WE needed as a couple to work things out. Either way, your attorney is right, the ball is in your corner, and you can decide only for yourself which way you want to go. If your committed to making things work then you need to support her without supporting the affair and make that very clear to her. Once again, taking care of yourself is NOT lovebusting. But communicate your actions to her VERY clearly, put your cards on the table and then commite yourself to the long haul, either way. Anyhow, we will try to be here for you, God Bless you! <P>------------------<BR>Chick's<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<BR>

Thanks chick's and awoken,<P>Yes, I know she is angry with herself.<BR>(But probably at me too!)<P>She IS feeling guilty.<BR>She IS pushing me away!<BR>She knows I'm in the right (morally at least)<BR>She knows (I think) I can be everyting again.<P>She was once sooo religious, she even got me involved in teaching religious education at our local parish... in her footsteps... for 5+ years!<P>She even admitted to all 3 kids "mommy is committing adultery... but she has to, to make herself happy... if mommy is happier... she'll be a better mommy." This was within 3 weeks of me finding out about the affair.<P>It is very clear she has problems with depressive bouts, usually after a very good feeling (like an excellent vacation), she'll crash hard. But will not take medication. She will not see a counsellor (her mother was once institutionalized... and now she has a fear she too will be institutionalized.)<P>She doesn't want to talk to me hardly at all. Remember... she moved out a month ago (90 minute drive one way)<BR>It's as if she is using Plan B on me!<P>awoken...<BR>I think your advice to STOP telling her she is "forgiven"... is correct! I didn't think of it as a love buster... but the more I think about... it probably is. I will try and follow your advice.<P>God, I am so greatful for finding this site.<BR>God will and is blessing each one of you.<P>Jim

I finally got the two books.<P>"Surviving an Affair" and<BR>"His Needs, Her Needs"<P>For those of you who have read my story (at the top of this post...) any suggestions on relevant parts of the books?<P>I'll have plenty of good reading tonight and for the next few nights!<P>I'll stop by later tonight to check on the board. I've got to pick up the kids, and go to religious education classes in the late afternoon.<P>Jim<P>

Good Luck.<BR>It is a terrible balancing act. The main advice I can give is that which I have read over and over here on this BB. You can only be responsible for your own thoughts and actions and therefore do what is best for you and your children...as you seem to be doing in very hard circumstances.<BR>I read Surviving the Affair which I underlined and passed on to my H (the betrayer) In retrospect this was a great book for me as it helped me know clearly that the emotions I was feeling were very justifiable and normal (depsite being told that I was crazy, unrealistic etc.) and that H's expected course of action which I was expecting (as he stated that he wanted reconciliation ) was lucidly outlined. Not that in my case he ever did anything to make me believe in him again. <BR>But what the book did do was make me very aware that my expectations were normal, my emotions were as expected under the circumstances and that I was seeing the situation as clearly and as realistically as I thought I was. This book reinforced my faith in me and my thought process which in turn stopped me from 2nd guessing myself.<P>Good luck...this is a hard road that we are forced to travel

When I started reading SAA today, I was reading MY LIFE! Except for the names and few very minor differences THIS WAS MY LIFE (Sue/Jon/Greg)...<BR>and my wife's name is SUE too!<BR>Divorce had to be filed so now I have kids!<P>I will finish the rest of the book tonight. But already I've decided on a few things.<P>1. I won't do anything to speed the process of the divorce.<BR>-no more money for her<BR>-no changes (visitation is accpetable so far)<BR>-no negotiations (without 100% agreement)<P>2. Continue with Plan A...<BR>-proabably 3-4 months at most.<BR> (her money should dwindle then)<BR>-let her know I will be there<BR>-let her know I am NOT a doormat<BR>-build a Web site she can go to in prep<BR> for Plan B<P>3. Plan B in early 2000<BR>-only e-mail her once a month<BR> (to reference WEB site... that's it!)<BR>-all other contact eliminated<BR> (phone calls, emails, etc.)<BR>-get on with taking care of my kids<P>I hope and pray for the affair to die a quicker natural death. I believe it will, since her lover still has to go through his second divorce, he is a sponge, she WILL grate on him in time, and money will be a problem for them.<P>Refinement ideas on Plan A and Plan B are welcome.<P>Jim<BR>

NSR Just read your post. I know exactly where you are. My H left two months ago to live with the OW. I found out about the affair in March it had been going on since last Sept. Anyway he has asked for a civorce he said he would like to marry her. He told his sister this but said in such away that she think the OW doesn't want to get married. Of course she has to get a divorce too. I am not sure what plan I am in I would like to be in plan A but he has kind of forced me into B because I haven't been able to keep in any contact with him. The only contact has been lovebusters because I told him he had to pay some of the bills. He walked out leaving me with all the bills. However I have basically decided to send little notes telling him that I still care. When he talked about divorce I told him that I would get it (I was trying to keep some control and felt if he did then I would be divorced to soon.) but it would be awhile before I could afford to do so. He has accepted this. I am rambling and I know you don't want to hear about someone elses problems unless they can give insight into your and I really can't do that. I really wanted to tell you that you aren't alone. And that you need to slow down. Don't push anything forward unless it becomes necessary for the ske of your children. I wish I could tell you that the fantasy part of the affair get over soon but I can't. But I can tell you that I think you are on the right track and my prayers are with you. I do know the pain you are in and how hard it is to think things through. Putting your thoughts into writing does help as sharing those thoughts with someone. MB is a good place to do so. Sometime just reading helps also. Good luck.<P>------------------<BR>di<BR>

Hey Jim,<P>You out there?<P>Do me a favor and read my last post. I'm backsliding big time and need your advice.

<BR>NSR,<P>See a lawyer to protect yourself and the kids. I hate to say this, but you should be prepared for total war to get custody of the children. The fact of the matter is that if she gets custody of the kids, you'll be hit with an "income shares" child support award that will easily exceed the costs associated with raising your children. And you can bet that the extra funds will be spent maintaining the affair. And truthfully, I don't think your kids need to be exposed to the OM. I have my views about negative influences on kids, I guess you could say.<P>Bystander

This is my(NSR's) first post ever at MB... from 4 months ago...<P>It was brought to the top... because a friend found it... and posted to it!<P>As an update... next week (1/25/2000)... I go our states mandated Early Settlement Panel(ESP) review... of the entire "Property Settlement Agreement(PSA)" issues (including custody)... There will most likely be <B>NO</B> agreement between me and my W on a number of issues. So a trial date will be set in 4-12 weeks.<P>It is highly unlikely (not impossible) that the children will be given to my W! They've been with me since 8/28/1999 and everything is going very well for them here...<P>I'll post for a prayer request later this week. But unlike my previous court experience (1/7/2000... losing a restraining order that kept the OM away from my kids on an overnight basis... ) This will go better, as far as my kids physical custody issue.<P>Thanks for everyone's concern... <P>Jim

<BR>Hi Jim,<P>I'm a bit red-faced, responding to such an old post. Ah well, I mean(t) well! <P>Bystander