I knew something had changed and it had. He had luch with OW a week ago. He saying it was a company thing but she is retired supposedly now. He says her husband was there as well. I know he is lying about everything and I want out of this crziness. I just want to pack my stuff and run for the hills. I know he read the HN/HN book or so he says. He is a liar now and will not change. How can I ever trust him to tell me the truth. I am so angry right now. He just does not get it. I am angry taht he has been still lying and can not believe him anymore. You know what here it is almost 10 am and he is sleeping like a baby still. I hate him for what he is and has done. I have turned to stone.

Her husband knows about the A?

Did you confirm with her H that he was present during the lunch?

Did he volunteer on his own that he had lunch with them, or did you have to pry it out of him?

You might be blowing things all out of proportion here.

Ahhh I'm thinking NC means NC I wouldn't care who was there. Having said that running won't solve your problems. I remember your story at least some and I know you've been through a lot. Make sure whatever stand you plan to make that it's well thought out.

Hang in there.

realtor, is this a boundary he has crossed ?

A boundary requires YOU change your behaviour not your H.

I am sorry that your H showed you AT LEAST this disrespect.

Transparency is so very important.

All blessings as you work this out realtor.

I pried it out of him. This was a boundry - he said his friend another guy who was on vacaation went to this lunch as well. I said if He knew about it and they knew about it then you could have told me ahead. I do not want to hear that you did not know ahead of time that there was this lucheon. We had agreed that I would go to any company luches ect if she would be there. Or he was not supposed to go.

Bob - i am clueless to how I am to change my behavior?? I have been so good -and trying to trust him for awhile until I saw his attitude change with me. It was starting to get like the alien again.

many of us have been worrying over you, now I know our worries were well-founded!

OK
One step at a time. You know the drill. At this emotional time, you are not to make any important decisions, because they could be rash and un-clearly thought out.

you do need to start planning for the optional decision you have.. if you decide to leave, this. If you decide to stay, that. If you decide to kick his a$$ out, that.

Calmly get all your ducks in a row.

(What the he11 is wrong with him?)

{{{{{{{{{{{{{REALTOR}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
I wish I was an expert. I'm holding you close in my prayers.

You had to pry it out of him? Big problem. I mean, it's not a "kick your @ss to the kerb" type problem, but a big problem nevertheless. Perhaps he didn't think much of it because there were other people present, and preferred not to tell you about it because he didn't want to upset you. I've let my FWW know on many occasions that if she's involved in ANYTHING that she believes she may need to hide from me to avoid hurting my feelings, that should be taken as a sign that she's crossing a boundary and she needs to decide if she wants to continue and then tell me about it, or avoid the situation entirely.

Chere....there is a really simple (but not easy) way to change your behavior and enforce your boundary: Stop tolerating bad behavior and go to Plan B. When recontact occurs, and it has, you UP the ante. You expose again if necessary....and I think that it is....call her husband. You go to plan B and leave a detailed map of how to get back in the marriage: conditions for reconciliation which are clear and non-negotiable with NC of any kind being at the top of the list.

realtor, what I mean is that the only thing you can do to defend a boundary is to first warn, then to remove yourself from the abuse.

You can't force your H's behaviour.

My boundaries are NC, respect, transparency. Up to you how long you bear his abuse R. So sorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

We have just had a very large talk. I told him I did not like his dishonesty. Again he is a conflict avoider - I told him I am not as angry over him seeing her with others alot of them present it iss his lying. He said I didn't lie I just did not tell you. I explained to him that is a lie of ommision. God I feel like I am talking to a child. I was very firm on this. He had agreed to walk out if she was present. Now he says he just had lunch and left after 20 minutes. Whatever - I don't believe him. He needs to work and work alot harder. I told him I do not believe him and he needs to start thinking about his honesty. He just rants on about how he knew I would react like I did nad that is why he doesn't tell me things. Well I said you picked the wrong time to tell me. We had gone out had dinner and a few drinks. I was sitting in his lap being the sexy wife I have become. Kissing and holding him and he tells me then. I flipped. Yes I was wrong. But why then?? Then he gets upset because he didn't get any?? After bringing her up? He still defends this R with her as OK. Even though he had a secret e-mail account and was sending I miss you. How are you. XXX000 to her. Yeah we all do that with people we work with. come on I was not born yesterday. Why would she tell him she would not leave her H?? Because they talked about it. She would not have sex with him? Why would they talk about that? I am no fool and he needs to wake up.

realtor your H is still manifesting fog IMO.

he knew I would react like I did and that is why he doesn't tell me things

This is UBER fog. Squid told me that on d-day : " I knew you'd be angry so I didn't tll you to save you from getting upset".

I couldn't work THIS hard on recovery if Squid was not transparent and respectful of me. She has avoided events with even a TINY chance OM may be there and told me. Not a big deal just a statement of fact. I am starting to trust Squid to protect me from unnecessary hurt now.

Your H is still lying and justifying. I she still in full contact with OW Realtor ?

I agree, plan b. If you said nc, then nc. If you don't plan b, you've shown him you wont follow through. To save your M, plan b.


I'm so sorry.

Realtor, so sorry this has happened.

Understandably you are very angry right now and should probably not address this with him until you have had a chance to prepare yourself.

If you want another FWS's perspective, if OM showed up anywhere that I was--I would literally leave in order to head straight to the telephone to call my BS.

Please dont settle for anything less than total self motivated transparency--until then the BS is not safe.

Half truths and justifications are symptoms of entitlement attitude. This man needs a major reality check and is taking you for granted! Are you considering Plan B?

***He said I didn't lie I just did not tell you. I explained to him that is a lie of ommision. God I feel like I am talking to a child.***

I heard EXACTLY the same words from WH. He was highly insulted and very huffy. "I didn't lie! I just didn't tell you!" I think this is another one of those "they all that" phrases.

Your WH knows perfectly well what a lie is and what a lie is not. He just wants to act like he doesn't know so he won't get in trouble.

***He just rants on about how he knew I would react like I did nad that is why he doesn't tell me things.***

And for once he is being truthful. "I didn't tell you because I knew you wouldn't like it and you would spoil my fun, so I tried my damndest to keep it a secret. I'm furious now because I got caught and have been laid out to be the liar that I am."

Have you ever talked to him about the difference between "privacy" and "secrecy"?

"Privacy" = I'm going to take a nap, or a take a shower, or use the toilet. You'll know what I'm doing; I'll just be alone while I'm doing it.

"Secrecy" = I don't want you to know what I'm doing. You'd spoil my fun if you did.

Privacy has a place in a marriage. Secrecy has none. There is no faster way to destroy a marriage than to start invoking secrecy.
Mulan

I would do a plan B -the only problem with that is I have nowhere to go. I have not ahd a closing for awhile and no extra cash. I have no family here. My one good friend has moved over an hour away and I can not move into her home. I have been thinking of a way to do this. I have rental next door but it is rented. If I was living back in NH I would hve plenty of places to go. Mulan I have talked till I am blue in the face with him about secrecy. ect. He says he sorry , understands then seems to keep doing what he wants. If he had called me the day of the lunch and said honey - I went to this luncheon and she was there so I grabbed a sandwich and took off. I would have been so happy. Last night I was feeling so romantic and to have this thrown in my face when I was kissing him -it was like a slap in the face. I went into shock and felt humiliated. Whye bring it up when soemthing like taht is happening. Its not like we have alot of time for this intimacy. I am so afraid of this I guess. To think the man I love is so so so . I don't know selfish. Just when I was able to start breathing again. Nightmares had come back over these last 2 weeks. Subconsious was right again..

Has your husband always lied? Or was this just since the affair?

I would check to be sure the OW is retiring. Find out if that is another lie.

Plan B is doable. He can move out.

GEt yourself safe. As for his saying he knew you would react.....you need to RB (reverse babble back):

WS: I knew you would react like this....that's why I didn't tell you until now.

BS: Well you doofus, if you knew I would react, then why did you even do the dirty deed.

WS: It's not dirty.

BS: No? Then why do you stink like an A? (then give a few quotes from those e-mails.....keep it vague enough to make him wonder).

I used the RB to the remind the WS that the OW liked the smell of his morning breathe. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> STINKY!!!! I told the WS, well honey, I love you but not THAT much. He laughed and said she was nuts. Oh boy....grabbed that line and used it later. Now it was an established fact that the OW was nuts (came from the WS' mouth). That piece came in handy later.

Sorry you are dealing with this. Plan B is a safer option.

L.

she is retired. I asked him one question only one and he blew sky wide and hansome. I said if OW's husband went why couldn't I go. Taht was it . Screaming yelling, I told him I was done quietly and walked out. I sat on the proch and then showered. I have not said one word other than stop justifying what you have done.

Go to a safe place...... write up your real boundaries (the ones you are willing to take decisive action on), write out those actions (so you are ready if needed) and write your plan B letter.

Don't send it, just get it written down. It w/b therapeutic for now. It w/b useful to implement later.

take care,
L.