DO NOT WRITE THE LETTER.

Please do not. You can tell your attorney your feelings and your attorney can give them to WH.

Logic will not work with the extremely foggy..Orchid knows that I understand this very very well...

Also please quit beating yourself up.

As far as the depression goes, are you on AD's? Are you? I think that's important. Also getting outside...doing a run around block, going to church, out with friends, anything..that hugely helps with depression. Been there, did that...

but what I realized and was told by my IC was that THIS BOUT OF SITUATIONAL DEPRESSION WAS BROUGHT ON BY MY WH..DEALING WITH HIS LIES, BETRAYAL. NOT FROM ME ALONE.

And here is another lightbulb moment for you.

My IC told me that there may have been signs all along from my XH that he was lying or cheating...that little signs may have been going on from day one...but that he either hid them way too well, or simply entertained them in private.

Your depression did NOT cause your WH to go out and cheat. Like saying a broken leg of a wife could cause a guy to go out there and cheat b/c she was nota vailable to the H to cook, clean, or iron his shirts. Ludicrous!

Your depression could be hormonal, situational as I do suspect...or due to the isolation that being a trucker's wife could bring. It certainly was not something you wanted to happen ok?

Now his treating of the depression? That's a whole other entity.

My IC once told me that I should NOT expect MY THEN, WH is, to feel anything...UNLESS IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD AFFECT HIM DIRECTLY. My xh has narcissistic tendencies...I also feel that many other WS's here have that too!

This might be hard to understand, but I also had to "get it" that my xh could have been a bit wayward all along! She said the fact he cheated on his first fiance with his first wife...was the kicker.

Also, your wh is an over the road trucker. Realize he could have always been this person, but just hid it.

It is best to stay in plan B mode completely if the WS is not about helping the family with basic necessities. Food, water, shelter, heat, are just those...

His affair will probably end, as they all do at some point.

Do not go over and over thinking you should have done something different...could have...etc. It is giving in to the words of the WS's when they blame US for their CHOICE to drop their pants or raise their skirts.

Lady,

I guess your right.

I just don't know what to do anymore.

yes once i explained to DS what it meant he was fine. He was angry and upset thinking I didn't want him to be with his dad without someone around. He understood about the over night visits. He though it meant he could not go on the road with his dad during his off time from school, I told him he coould go I want him to be with his dad. I have no fears of WH doing nything to our child. So DS is fine now he understands it all.

He did question me about moving to VA. again. I told him we arn't going anywhere at this time. So I have a feeling WH said something to him about it again, trying to get him to staying with him if I decide that. So for now I am staying put. Even if it means staying here until DS is 18 to keep him from living with WH and OW I will sacrafice that for my child. I think WH will fight me anyway moving so far away.

Why can't this man just get it and come home and be who he is suppose to be?

be who he is supposed to be and be who he is may be two entirely different situations.

Re read my post to you. He could have been this WS all along...just on a much smaller level.

Nobody here wants to think that. they all want to believe that a lightining bolt hits the spouse and suddenly in a split second they become a WS and decide to cheat. Doesn't usually work that way.

some have done this as I suspect, for a long time. Others may have just dabbled here and there and recently became WS...like in cases where they work together. But your WH may not really be who you thought he was all along...

Peachy,

I am staying in planb mode. I will let the attorney handle this.

As far as him cheating before I don't believe it. I have thought about it many times since all of this started but I truely don't think he did.

For our first ten yrs of marriage he was home and worked local jobs. It was 1990 when he bacame a OTR driver. Our youngest was one month old when he started that.

The funny thing is I knew something was up in June when this affair started. Even though I was 1400 miles away I knew. I could tell just by his voice on the phone something wasnot right. I kept at him until he admitted it. I knew him well enough to know something was not right just by how he talked and sounded. So thats why I don't believe he has done this before.

No I am not on AD'S my IC does not feel I need them at this time. I don't think I do either, I am actually doing ok. Its just that I guess I got overly upset yesterday knowing he got served and what he said about visitation with DS. and the fact he told his sister he turned his papers for the D.

So I am trying to come to acceptance now he may divorce me and I have to come to terms with that. But I will be ok....

Hurting,

When reading Peachy's post I thought of something way back years ago....

When I was a teen my best friends dad was a truck driver. He had a girlfriend in another state. He was going OTR to her, and then back to his family a few days of the month. He did that for years without her mother knowing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> They ended up divorced. So it does happen.

I believe WH don't just all of sudden become a WS. They usually have a pattern of it. The way your WH's pattern was with you...coming and leaving again the way he did, makes me wonder. The only thing, he messed up his cover, he couldn't hide it because this time because OW is in the same town. Maybe that is why he keeps asking about you moving. He doesn't like his women in the same town with each other.

Lady

lady,

I don't believe it ...... The kids went with him so much as well as I did. I was with him for almost the last 2 yrs most of the time. So I just don't believe he did.

No one can ever convince me he did. During the summer months and whenever the kids had breaks they were with him and believe me they would have told.

And like i said I was with him way to many times for that to have happened. He always wanted me to go with him. We paid my MIL to watch the kids. He always wanted us to go. He used to go to his mom and beg her to watch the kids so I could go. So I really don't think he cheated.

I really believe that this is the first time. I do believe there was a EA before this but I never realized it. They had ommunitcations at the bowling alley on Saturday nights because I woould not go last year. I believe he talked to her because I withdrew from him and it went from there. Now I do not take the blame for his choices he made but I do take resposibility for my part in the conditions that happen.

I remember him asking me to go with him and I always said no. So yes I played a part in it. I look back and I realize he was begging me to spend time with him and I didn't. So he found someone who would talk to him and listen. I just wish he had talked to me and told me how he felt. he has admitted he should have talked to me but thats not going to fix this now.

OW gave him the attention I wasn't, and now I see what happened. She told him all of things I should have and no its not a reason for him to do what he has done. But I can see how it happened.

Even my own family and friends don't believe he has done this before. As mad as my own mom is about this she even says I know he loved you and was devoted.

So see I woould almost stake my life on the fact he has not done this before. Maybe I would be a fool to do that but thats how sure I am. I am not looking at his past/our past through rose colored glasses I know how it was and what I lived. So like I said I do not believe this has happened before. And believe me if I even thought it I would admit it. I am not making excuses for him I just know what I know and nothing in me or any past behaviors show this to be true.

Call me a fool but if I even thought it could be true I would say so. As far as him talking about me moving , I think thats because I always told him if something ever happen to him I would go back to my family. I also believe if I was to move it would make it easier for him and he would not have to face me and feel the guilt of what he has done. its easier not to feel guitly oversomething or someone if you don't have to see it/them. But I know he woould never allow me to take DS so far away, so its not going to happen anytime soon.

You sound pretty certain of your WH. And you're probably right. But it's not your fault! You have to remember that. He has no excuse to go to another woman no matter what the situation is, and no matter how you try to justify the reason for it in your mind. You cannot blame yourself.

When you were home on those Saturday nights not wanting to go any where, why didn't he just stay home and care for you during those times? Because he is selfish!

Lady

Lady,

I know its not my fault, I just know what role I played in it.

As far as the saturday nights go, I wanted him to go bowling it was the one thing he did and he enjoyed it. We both had bowled together for many yrs on saturday nights. I just wanted to take the year off from it.

When he asked me to go I told him if I wanted to be at the bowling alley on Sat. i woould have continued bowling. Thats why I didn't bowl I wanted a break from that place. So I told him go be with our friends and enjoy yurself. I did go a few times but not enough I suppose.

Now he always had one of the kids with him during these times. So I know nothing was happening. He always came home on time. He never had strange phone calls nor did we have cell phones at that time. We only got cell phones in June right before I left for Va. and that was because I wanted them so we could be in touch. He is computer illterate so he never messed on the pc, heck he can't even turn it on. I tried to teach him but he didn't care to. So I know nothing was happening in the pc either.

He always came home from work on time never went anywhere on the weekends unles we were together or he was bowling. So I know the only contact they hd was Sat. nights during bowling. I have asked many people who were there if they noticed anything between OW and WH and most said no. The only time anyone even noticed them talking was about the last month or so of bowling which was May. And then no one thought much about it because it was not like they hung on to each other talking.

My friend told me the last night of bowling when she and her H were leaving OW and WH were sitting at a table talking but she thought nothing of it since we all knew each other. So I truely believe this all started about the end of May and once i left the beginning of June it took off. So it definatley was a EA before I left. But like I said no one realized it or what was going on.

I am pretty sure of him as far as the past goes. I can't say 100% but I will be willing to say I am 99% sure....

Anyhow at this time what does it matter anyway, he is gone and this is something I have to deal with. I do pray everyday it will get better and he will come back but I can't live on hopes and prayers forever. I have to do what I need to do and if the day comes when he can say he wants to work it out then I will go from there.

I appreciate all of you and your help.

Hurting

Hurting, don't beat yourself up. If you think your WH never had any affairs on the road, I'm glad you can rest easy about that. Your probably right that OW got her hooks into WH at the bowling alley. He always had the chance to say 'No'. OW always had the chance to be an honorable person. Your WH could have honored your feelings about hanging out at the bowling alley. Many of the bowling alleys I've been to have been dank, smokey places. I wouldn't want to spent all my Saturday nights there. What about your needs?

Don't send any letters. Don't communicate. This sounds harsh but it doesn't hurt to think about all of the bad things that have happened. If you start to feel weak, think about having your gas shut off, working at Burger King and all the tears you've shed in the past months. That helps bring things into perspective.

GG,

Your right both of them should have been honorable and not allowed this to happen.

I do think of the bad things that have happened and it does anger me. But that does not take away my feelings for him.

Why is it I feel everyone is trying to convince me he has cheated before OTR? I know in my heart that didn't happen. I just feel like everyone wants me to forget about him and give up on my marriage. Well I can't do that and I won't until I know its over. In my mind it won't be over until he has either married the OW or I don't love him anymore.

For now the loving part is far from gone, sometimes I wonder why I still love him after all of this but I believe because God wants me not to give up. I can and will live either way it goes.

I guess most people would have given up and would be hating there WS after all of this but its just not in me to be that way. Not saying it won't happen but for now thats not the case.

Maybe I am reading everyone wrong here but thats just how I feel at this moment. Maybe its foolish of me to still want this marriage but that something I guess I will have to learn on my own.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and it has made me think a lot but please don't ask me to give up because I can't , not right now....


Hurting

Hurting -

Hang in there. You are expecting way too much, way too soon. Expect 4 months in Plan B before anything happens. In the meantime, quit obsessing. Go clean the toilets. Don't let people get you worrying about things that probably never happened. You have enough problems already.

Believer,

Thank you. I just feel like everyone was trying to get me to believe something I truely don't believe happened.

I know its to early to expect anything from him. But I do have one question, if he does file D papers is there really a chance we can still fix this?

If he files the papers what should I do? My mom keeps telling me even if he does that does not mean its over, he will be back. I want so much to believe that.

I have to get ready for work now. Got to be there at 5. I thank god for this job everyday now. It has helped me so much in just getting some kind of normalcy in my life.

Hurting - There are tons of people here who went right down to the D line and recovered their marriages. There were also a couple who never even got off the D board here and recovered just fine.

I really feel that your husband will be back. Don't give up, and stop worrying about things so much.

Beleiver,

Thank you ..... I will try and stop worrying.

I guess I'm just worry wart , always have been ...One of the things i have to learn to control....

Hurting....I think Peachy and I were just wondering if it could be a possibility. But it seems you have thought through things well enough to know the answer is most likely...no he hasn't.

I don't want to discourage you in any way, and I'm sorry if I have. That was not my intention. I want what is best for you. I want to see your H come home probably as much as you do! Be confident of that. And hopefully that will be the outcome of the whole mess.

And I would never ask you to give up. There probably have been some that think you should, but I don't. I know you have the faith that he will, and I am agreeing with you by faith.

I remember you IC telling you that it takes about 4-6 months for the affair to take a dive. And that time is coming soon. If anything I want you to be taken care of and loved. You deserve nothing less than the best.

Lady

Hurting,

Don't try to 2nd guess the WS' logic. RE: There isn't any logic in the fog.

What t/d? Let it be. Plan for the worst, then work with what the cat drags in. You will most likely throw it in the trash but at least it w/b cleaned up. That is what you may feel like you are doing. It is true. The WS is trying desparately to turn things against you.

IMHO, the reason why he targed in on the child visitation is because he knew he could get to your son. You headed that off so do NOT tell the WS what you have done. Let him find it out in court via your lawyer. If you try to warn him ahead of time, it will only back fire on YOU.

Stay away from the urge to fix or warn him....it won't work.

Reassure your children. If they choose to tell him expect it and learn to tell them only enough to reassure them. Don't overburden them with details.

Ex:

BS: Son, both your father and I love you but right now your dad put himself in a position where he is choosing not t/b a good parent. It is already evident to more than just our family. It also is hurtful to see but letting him know that only makes him angry. What I want you t/d is talk to me or someone we both know will be able to help you. Let's decide who it is, ok?

Son: What about ________? He/she is a good friend and trustworthy.

BS: Sounds good. How about _______ or _______?

Son: ______ is ok but I don't really like ______.

BS: Ok, well that's 2 persons. This is good for a start and you know you always have me. Right?

Son: Right. Thanks mom.

BS: (hug) You're welcome. Thanks for working w/me. I appreciate your support. ILY very much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

orchid,

That pretty much how my conversation went with DS. I explained his dad and I both loved him but that he was making bad choices. I told him I want him to see his dad but not be exposed to the affair. He seemed to understand. He was happy that I am not trying to keep him from WH. I believe thats what WH tried to make him believe.

Anyhow DS now knows thats not true. So I think I nipped that in the bud with DS.

Lady,

I appreciate all of the concern and the questions you both posed to me. And its not like it had not crossed my mind recently. But after looking back and weighing it all very carefully and how ur lives were I knew he had not done this before.

I know he may never come home and i have ot face that. But until I am absolutly sure of it I won't give up hope.

I just keep praying and have faith in the lord that this will work out for the best for myself and my children.


Hurting

You are probably right...about wh...Just there is a huge amount of infidelity in those Ws's who go alone on business trips period. That is something well known.

I just hate to see you beat yourself up...the "I should have listented more to him...been more taking care of his en's...stuff"

It is in our nature to try to fix things as women..men try it too. It is so much more comfortable to believe that if WE could have done something different, then the WS would have not cheated. But life doesn't work that way. It does not matter how many En's I met..he would have cheated. Heck, I even miscarried during the separation but did not post of it.

It is perfectly in line with our human nature to think that if WE accept responsibility for our Ws's actions, then we can get control of the sitch...and turn it around. The uncomfortable alternative (and many times it is the absolute truth) is that it doesn't matter what we do...we can however learn MB principles and stack the cards in our favor as humanely possible, but the reality is that our WS are their own persons...and that they can fully on their own.,....ON THEIR OWN..MAKE A DECISION TO CHEAT.

Most of us here, because of our capacity to love and to forgive, would rather shoulder the burden of our Ws's and think that the WS without our being 100 percent all the time 24/7 to them, would not have cheated.

Not true. Before I caught my xh, we had a great marriage. Was good. so good in fact we were working on child numero dos.

We had built our dream home...I had placed his hummer in my name...we had what everybody believed was a great marriage.

As i exit the other side, I see otherwise now. I see many instances where he had LICENSE AND MOTIVATION TO CHEAT... and now I believe he did. I believe he did all along but did not get caught by anybody...many times were due to business trips.

I even have relatives now telling me instances they believe he did...such as arriving five hours late and about maybe one minute before my best friend's wedding...he was a groomsman in it...nobody could account for the five hours he was gone...we had been married six months, but it takes almost ten years for those who love me to come forth with these incenuations.

I believe there is a "gene for cheating" or some mental or psychological or chemical problem in their brains period. I think they are "wired wrong"...many of them.

That they can try to pretend to be a certain type of person for only so long until their other sides come out.

And yes, I have many friends who are docs who believe this too...this is stuff we talk about on call, inbetween our patients. It's described best to me by my former IC as "the ws has a sleeping monster inside they can't really control...they keep it at bay for sometime...then it just comes out at the time least when they wish it to."

That in the end is what I believe...and why I find it so important for research to be done and to find out exactly why people feel the need to cheat...to destroy families for days, months, or short years of limited pleasure.

I love ya a whole lot...but I will not stand by here and let friends beat themselves up saying they could've would've should've done something different to the spouse that made a CONSCIOUS decision to cheat.

It is wrong. There is no counterpoint to that. You did nothing wrong. Just realize this now! and it will help you in plan B...to set aside the raw emotions and be able to think with your brain...because your brain is what can help bring about actions which can help lead the ws to make positive choices.

We cannot force them to do anything out of their free will, but we can guide them to the narrow path...and that path leads home.

Peachy,

All that you just said does make sense. I will agree he may have that gene in him to do this and soemthing triggered it.

Ok I admit I keep saying to myself if only I had ...... I know thats not productive to me. I know nothing I said or didn't say or do made him choose this. It was as you say his own free will. I just see were I did make mistakes and I just feel the need to acknowledge them so I don't repaet them in any realtionship I have be it with him or someone else.

I wish I knew how to lead him to the narrow path, but he so far from it right now he can't even see it....

I am staying dark and doing nothing. I know in 3 weeks I have to face him in court and thats gonna be tough but I have to stay strong and confident. I have not figured out how to do that yet but I am working on it.....

Thanks so much for your insights I do appreciate them, it gets me thinking and keeps me on the right path....


Hurting

you CANNOT lead him...YOU CAN LAY THE PATH...AND HOPE HE WILL FOLLOW YOUR LEAD THOUGH.

That is the issue of free will. We all have it. It is God given.

When you realize that he has this, you can grasp plan B and the whole A deal better...that is how it was with me.

I realize I made a trail of MB bread crumbs that I left in that foggy forest where my xwh resides. I laid that trail for him. He only found it a few months back...but then for me it was too long gone..and because of my moral beliefs and not going after a married man...even if he was my H and the father of MY child...and the legitimate marriage partner.

Let go and let God. I used to say that to myself over and over.

You can only do what you can do to control YOUR actions...and these actions are either positive or negative...I feel that MB actions are positive ones...which as a result could help initiate changes in a ws...but YOU will not change the WS...it is a result of the desires only of the WS.

I could not personally imagine being able to wake up and look at myself in the mirror if I had ever made the conscious decision to destroy my marriage and family. I do not to this day understand how my xh did it and can do it now...unless I can see how his affair marriage has not made any difference at all...he had the oc...he is a sometimes dad to her (as per ow/w), but his life is not that different really..just different woman in it breathing o2 and taking up space...he does now realize the things that happened...but he never OWNED THEM...that man tried to push the blame on me...on ow...on everybody BUT HIMSELF.

When I have a convo with my xh, I always do not mention ME...I say "you" about twenty times more b/c that is all he can understand....sad but true.

If life affects WS negatively, then he hurts...he mourns...if life does not affect him negatively, he is just fine.

Are you getting it yet?

when they're foggy it is all the following and nothing more:
1)spin and blame the bs...and when it is convenient spin and blame the OP.
2)all about WS HAPPINESS..period. It is all about them. If they don't get the fantasy life, they 're not happy.


those that go so far down the adultery road that divorce is imminent, may end up like this...or their life will crash and burn very shortly after it is finalized.

My xh has been married for almost 2 years now...2 years since official light of day. It's hanging by a thread.

but it is still all about him.

example: xh enrolled son in very expensive basketball camp with a professional nba players to teach son. He made such a big deal with it last week..even "broke nc" that ow/w has imho, created...as it's scary for ow to realize that my xwh and I have something in common (son and his sports teams and we both love tohelp son). Son calls me tonight (first time ever)to talk while at his dad's. It seems ow/w watned to go out of town to the mountains at a business partner's home...and that they did NOT think about ds having basketball practice today (his second practice..and one more month until his first real game)nor did they care. I ask darth after speaking to ds why he chose to not take son to practice..his answer?

"geez. I didn't think. We were at the mountains relaxing...I didn't remember it until it was too late."

That sums up the life of my xh for the last 3 years...and you could substitute "mountains" for "hotel, casino, bahamas, south beach, etc. for word. He does not remember anything at all...until it is too late.

Quit beating yourself up. It does no good and keeps you from being a desirable and attractive bs that could, as a result of positive MB actions and self improvement, be a woman any man would want to come home to! My IC used to call that "stinkin thinkin".

Don't give in to "stinkin thinkin" but remember that we can only help and change ourselves..and hope that the WS sees enough positivity in us to give a teeny bit of faith to wanting to try to work on the marriage. But in the end, free will will prevail...whether right or wrong.