Hugz 2 u and your family......an extra hug to your daughter. She is growing up fast and having to learn how cruel the A c/b to one's family. Yet she has faith.

This is good support 4 u.

take care,
L.

Thanks Orchid she is growing and learning. I sure wish she never had to learn this though.

For the longest time she was like me and worried over making her dad mad but I think she now has realized if he gets mad so be it, he brought all this on himself. She keeps saying he needs to suffer mom......

We are all growing and learning from this very hard lesson. I sure don't wish it on anyone though but we will make it through it all......

Good Mooooorning!!

I'm not sure about this Hurting, but it does seem to be in the Divorce Busters 180 strategies somewhere.... I think.
Maybe it would work...I don't know....you would need advice from some Divorce Busters pros.

Hey but....it is flattering to know that men find you attractive, and would like to go out with you right now, but I would have a problem telling my MIL that.

I am kind of shocked that she told you that it would serve him right. I think you did the right thing by telling her..... BUT you're not looking for anyone....and keep it at that.

You are too close to court date and you don't need bad rumors spreading...

You see... what you said could turn into something like you ARE seeing someone at work, or you ARE seeing someone that is new in town.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about this...

Lady

In reference to your conversation with MIL and SIL. You said just enough. A little "game playing" is good now and again. A little taste of their own medicine.

lady,

I am not worried about any of that, they all know I am not going out and am not involved with anyone. When I am not working I am home or with them. I let them know I told both men I am married but was flattered and that was it.

They both know I would not go out with anyone as I have stated to everyone I am married and will honor my vows and they all know as well I still love my H very much.

I guess maybe I just wanted them and WH to realize I am still a woman who men can find attractive. My MIL knows I won't even consider going out with anyone. She has said to me many times you know WH is jealous and if he even thought you are seeing someone it would make him upset.

Don't worry Lady I am not going out with anyone thats the farthest thing from my mind. But I won't lie it gave me a pick me up knowing someone was interested. I realized I am still a woman who someone is attracted to.

Hurting,

Oh I know you're not going out with anyone. I was just thinking, if word gets around that 2 guys gave an interest in you....some people could blow that out of proportion and start "rumors" saying you are....like maybe WH.


Lady

Lady,


I do understand what your saying. And believe me I am being very careful and vigalent to make sure that nothing like that will happen.

I have told no one else about these things. One thing for sure any one coould hire a PI or whatever they want and will find nothing to use agaisnt me.

I made it very clear to all I am married and would never go out with anyone. MIL and SIL know this as well, I have stated it many times.

I appreciate your concern and I am taking your warning very seriously.

I was just sitting here pondering something.

With the holidays almost here and I know they are going to be hard on all of us. Do you really think they will be hard on WH?

He will not have any family on Thanksgiving or Christmas. I do expect that sometime on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day he will see the kids and I would not stop that. Is this really going to bother him? He seems to be not bothered by much of this. Or at least thats how he acts.

Its been almost 2 months since i have had any contact with him at all and it seems to not bother him at all. It is killing me though. I never thought he would be able to go this long without contact because of all the contact we had before. I just don't know what to think. Maybe the old saying outta sight outta mind is true, for him at least.

Oh well nothing I can do about it..... Just some things I was wondering....

I talked to my mom tonight , she was very happy to hear I am doing the decorating thing. She was worried I would let the holidays go by and not acknowledge them.

I told her about my feeling how WH seems to be ok with all of this. She said I don't believe he is at all , he is just not ready to say he was wrong and try to make things work. I do hope she is right. But it makes me wonder if he will ever say he was wrong.....

I didn't get the chance to post this before work. So here I am at 3 am not sure what to say to my DD.

She talked to her dad today and he asked her about Thanksgiving again. At first she told him she was not coming. I don't know what he said to her I didn't ask but anyway she called him back and told him she would come.

She waitied until it was time for me to leave to let me know. So I didn't get the chance to say much to her. I did tell her I was disappointed she woould not be with me for the day. All she could say was I see you everyday mom I don't get ot see dad.

I wanted so badly to say to her Well thats not my fault he chose to leave his family. I just don't know what to say to her anymore. I know she is torn ad loves her dad but I just feel that her spending the day with him and OW makes it seem normal to them and makes it alright in their minds.

What can I say to her? I know her and OW have talked before and have talked about our family. I don't want her talking to OW about our family or me. Someone please help me be able to say something to her so she understands. I know she does not approve of what her dad is doing but her spending time with him and OW like a family makes me feel like crap. It just makes it easier for them both to believe what they are doing is being accepted.

What can I do????? i am so upset now about this. It just makes me so mad that I am the one taking care of her and he walked out on all of us and has done nothing for his kids since he left and now she can just go and act like nothing is wrong. If I didn't love my DD as much as I do and want whats best for her I would just tell her to go live with them. I have so many feelings about this I can't express them all..... I just don't know how to handle this or what to say.... I don't want her dad and OW to know anything about what is happening here, but I am afraid DD will talk if asked. What do I say to her?

Something told me she would change her mind if her dad got to her. She feels sorry for him. I stopped by my MIL and told her and she was upset abut it as well. She wanted WH to have no family either so he could feel what it would be like, now DD is going to give him the family fix. This sucks...

Get this latest info to your 3rd party. You D is easily swayed because in her way, this is how she is helping. What you can ask her is did he threaten or coerce her in anyway?

Let her know she is not obligated to spend time with a WS and OW but is welcome to spend time with her dad. State it like that so she knows the difference.

Does she know she is being setup to fail? I think not. It seems like he has threatened or blackmailed her somehow. Let her know that you love her and no blackmail or threats will make you love her less. See how that goes over.

It is hard being a good mom but that is what u r. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

Orchid,

Thank you thank you...... I didn't think about using the 3rd party to talk to her about this.

I don't know but I think he may have made her feel guilty or something. Or promoised her something who knows.

I am not sure what you mean about her being set up to fail though. Could you explain what you mean?

I will talk to her in the morning in a calm way and see what I can find out without probing to much.

'Setting her up to fail'. This is what a WS does to a BS. He has done it to you. Now he is even willing t/d it to his children....for what.....the A? Hm.....

Some will sell their children's soul to the devil if they could. Arrrgh...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> That is why it is important for u t/b strong.

He is desparately trying to break your spirit. Willing to sacrifice his children to accomplish this goal.

By setting your D up to fail, he may promise or threaten her into doing what he wants in an attempt to hurt your feelings. He may not want your D around for the real reason a parent would or should want their children around. Take a look at some other mother's whose Ws' watch the children...... one puts the children infront of the TV most of the time, the other one let's the OW watch them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

If the WS made promises to your D and if she believed them, then when those promises fail to materialize, he may blame her making it appear that she has failed as a daughter. Something like:

WS: D, come with me for T-day. It will be with more food and trimmings. I will go out and get you whatever you want.

D: But dad, I told mom I'd stay with her. She is hurt and needs our help.

WS: She is just pretending t/b hurt. She is doing that to keep you from being with me. She is cruel that way. If you really love your mom, you will spend T-day with me.
Do you really love your mom?

D: Yes.

WS: Now don't tell her what we discussed, just let her know you decided to come with me. Ok?

D: Ok.

WS: That's my girl. Now what do you want me to get for you?

D: I'd like a: ________ ___________.

*************************
Fast forward to Thursday afternoon.

D: Where's the turkey and trimmings?

WS: Oh, OW is too tired, we are having it via Swanson Dinners.

D: WHAT?!?!?! Why didn't you at least order a dinner from Costco or Safeway?

WS: Didn't think 'bout it. BTW, we have to go out and won't be back until late tonight. You help yourself to as many frozen dinners as you want. Luv you.

D: (still in shock).....U forced me to come over and then u r leaving me alone?

Ws: Oh no...... we needed a baby sitter for OW's child. I told OW since u r here, you could watch the kid for us while we go out. I got pizza in the freezer, all the soda you want.....just put the little tyke to bed at 9pm, ok? Have a nice evening.

D: (almost in tears).....I thought you said I needed to come for you.

WS: U did. I needed u to watch this kid. Now stop bawling and go to work. (in the aggravated WS tone).

OW: WS, we are going t/b late.....now hurry up. Bye child..... D will watch you. Here's my cell # but it w/b off until the concert is done. So don't call us, we'll call you.

(Ws and OW leave for the evening). Now you know the real reason. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

JMHO,
L.

Orchid,

I swear if he does something like that and hurts my child, I will be all over him like white on rice. To ****** with planb if he does anything to hurt the kids worse than they are.

But you may be right he knows that I am hurting and to have one of the children with him and not here will bother me. He has not tried to get to DS. DS told me tonight he is not going out there for any holiday including Christmas.

I hope he does nothing to upset DD, has he not hurt me enough why does he still want to? I mean my god he has left and left me in such a finanacial mess as it is. I don't bother him why still try and inflict more pain?

I never thought of it but I guess trying to have the kids for the holidays would devestate me and i am sure he knows it....

I just want to smack him a good one....

Hurting,

I wish DD wouldn't have chose to go spend Thanksgiving with WH. I do think she is being torn both ways. Some girls will do anything to get there dads attention. To DD... it doesn't matter to her what he's doing as long as she can be with him. Maybe he coerced her or even bribed her...I don't know, or she felt bad/guilty to turn down his invitation.

I don't think it will be a comfortable day for DD or WH.
Most likely very strange. I think they both will have many thoughts of previous years when "all" of the family was together.

Who knows maybe she will change her mind again by then! Or maybe she'll stay there for a little while, and when she begins to feel weird and uncomfortable, she will come and spend the rest of the day with you.

Lady

Hurting:

I think you've said all you can say to DD. You've made it clear that you would like her to be with the "family", you don't approve or like the idea of her going to spend TG with WH & OW and it's hurting to you that she would etc. I would drop it at that. INHO - you'll push her further the other way if you focus too much on it.

It's my best guess your WH didn't "threaten or blackmail her", although he may have done a bit of guilt trip on her.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree one bit and would feel exactly the same way as you do, but I think if you continue to address it, it'll come back to kick you in the behind.

Remember, you can only control you and what your reactions are.

{{{Hurting}}}

Your DD told you the same thing WH told her - she sees you everyday, why not spend one day with him. She knew that it would bother you, that's why she waited until you had to leave. She's ashamed that she caved after being so adament about punishing him for his choices.

I bet that she'll apologize for going. Maybe not until Friday, but I bet it will happen.

Your DD is in such a tough spot right now. I know - it's not your fault - but just the same, it's not easy to love both parents and want to please both.

I think that it's good that you share the facts with your DD (about money, the OW, etc). Just remember to only tell her things that you can prove - don't suggest things that may be rumours, that you only think or suspect. I remember when my parents split up my dad was really mean and said things to hurt my mom or to make us think poorly of her. I have a lot more respect for my mom who only shared things that were facts and never just cursed him.

Cat

Lady, inanutshell and cat,

Believe me I understand what all of you are saying. I know she loves her dad and wants to spend time with him. Tht I have no problem with . I want the kids to see their dad I just don't like that its also with OW.

I pretty much believe its probably due to a guilty trip he laid on her. But it was his choice to leave his family and do what he is doing and leave us hurting and not caring what happens. Why should he have the joy of having one of his children with him? I know I can't stop her she is 18 yrs old and has her own mind. I don't want to hear from her the story of I see you everyday, thats not my fault he did this.

I don't say anything bad about their dad to any of the kids, I have said what he is doing is wrong and its an affair. They know I am hurt and angry but I have never said anything out of the way. I know how that is my parents divorced when I was 12 and I remember how my dad said hurtful things about my mom, I never want my kids to have to deal with that. Plus if by chance we ever get to try and fix our marriage I don't want them to have any more negative feeings towards him than they already have due to what he has already done.

I do want to be able to talk to her though and have her understand that any conversations of myself or our family and whats going on is off limits while she is with him. It's one thing if she talks to WH by himself but I don't want her to speak of us around OW. I know I am probably asking to much but I just don't like the thought that OW knows anything.

Maybe I am making to much of this whole thing I don't know but it just makes me feel like this gives WH the impression is he doing nothing wrong and that they approve and like OW if the kids willing go. I know this is selfish of me and I should not feel this way but I wanted him to suffer without any of his family, I wanted him to see what it would be like for none of his family to be around. Well now he gets the family fix even if its only DD.

I keep telling myself let it go and not worry. I am trying it just makes me so angry though after all he has done and left us all to suffer while he lives it up that she can so easily dismiss all of that. She has lived her with me suffering through no food , heat and no money and then go pretend all is ok.

I know saying all of this to her would just come back and bite me in the butt like you said inanutshell , so i am keeping it all to myself and venting it out here. I am just so hurt that she can't or won't acknowledge it all and feels like he deserves to have consideration of his feelings for not being here for the holidays.

Good thing I have IC today I feel so angry and bitter right now about him.

I agree that it was his choice to have the A, it was his choice to leave his family, it was his choice to be where he is today. I understand that he should feel the effects of his choices and I can see why you want him punished.

Let's assume for a minute that DD just misses her dad and that's why she's going, and as much as she also wants to see him punished for his behaviour, isn't it also punishing her to have to stay away?

I'm not saying it's right, just that it's another way of looking at it.

(((Hurting)))

I understand how bad this makes you feel. But rest assured, they can't fake a happy holiday. Your absence in his holiday will be missed (it may be missed deep, deep inside him though) but your family has too much history to think it can just be easily duplicated.

Will you be at your MIL's? What are your plans?

I am thinking about going hog wild with Christmas decoration this year myself. We normally keep it pretty low key, but I think the girls and I will really go all out this year!