He didn't leave his children, he left you. I know it is tempting to want him to suffer by losing his family in addition to his wife. But his children love him and over time will forgive him and want him in their lives. This is normal. They don't deserve to lose their father because of his poor choices. You don't want them to lose him. In order to have him, they may have to accept the OW. They won't ever love her the way they love you but if he and she stay together, they will have to learn to accept her in order to maintain a relationship with their father. Please don't use your children as objects to obtain revenge on your husband. You aren't that kind of person. I know you are hurting but your children are much more important than his infidelity. Encourage them to maintain a relationship with their father even if it means accepting the OW. I'm not encouraging you to give up your fight for the marriage, only to let go of the children as weapons in that fight.

You have every RIGHT to feel and think the way you do. It's "normal". Venting on here is the best thing. I believe from past posts that you've made it clear with your DD that you don't want OW or for that matter WH knowing anything about what you're doing.

I still say you've said enough. It "ain't" going to be fun for either of them, regardless of how they make it appear. Deep down, it just isn't.

IC should be able to help you out with this one.

Cat,

I would never ask her to stay away from her dad. I want the kids to have time with him, I know she misses him as we all do. I don't want tp punsih her at all. I just wish she could see him without it having to be with OW around.

Jean,

I will be at my SIL'S with all of WH'S family and DS. The only one missing will be DD and of course WH. So its going to be a family thing.

After Thansgiving dinner tomorrow DS and I are going to put up the tree and do the decorations. Hopefully do the outside lights today. I am not goingto let this stop our decorating and making the house cheery for the holidays. If it was not for the kids I probably would not do it but I want to make the holidays as normal as I can for them.
I guess DS will get the job of putting the angel on the tree this year. That was always WH'S job, so I guess now its passed on to DS. This is all going to be so hard to get through but I know I have to do it for my kids.

I do encourage my kids to see their father. I have not ever tried to keep them from him. My DS goes with him on the road during school breaks and sees him on the weekends. I just don't approve of over night visits while we are still married.

If their father wants to see them everyday I don't have a problem with it. I don't down their father to him , I assure them that he loves them as I do.

I don't want anyone to think I am trying to keep the kids from him because I don't. They are old enough to make their own decsisons, I don't always agree with them but its theirs to make.

As far as their father not leaving them he left me, I don't agree with that statement. When he walked out he walked on all of us. He walked out on finanacial obligations that pertain to the children as well as me. He had barely given any money to help take care of the kids or the home. When my DD told him we had no food and needed some money he told her that was not his problem he didn't live here anymore.

My DS has beenstaying mostly with my SIL until I can get child support in place. She has told him she has bought clothes for DS and has asked him to help out, he has yet to give her one thin dime. So see yes he left me but he has had no concern over the well being of his children. We went without heat for 2 weeks because he wouldn't give us any money. So yes he left me but he also left his children to suffer as well so in my mind he left his children as well. If not for them to make the contact he would not see them no where near as much as he does. he see's them when is convientant for him. My DD has not seen him in alomst a month not for lack of trying but because of his selfish wants and desires to spend his weekends with OW and her daughter. My DD begged her dad to come see her and he had plans with OW. So see I don't think the way I feel is out of line or using my children at all.

So I do want thm to have a relationship with their father but he is the one who is not doing what needs to be done to have a happy and healthy realtionship with them. I have tried to keep the realtionships going but its on him not me now.... So do I think she should spend Thanksgiving with him, ****** no I don't think he deserves it but I won't stop it.

Expect it. Be prepared 4 it. BTW, u and your children r a package deal. To leave 1 is to leave all. No splitting haris on this subject.

I presented our family as a single entity to the Ws. It was WS vs family. Not H vs family. H was part of the family, the WS was not.

So when the WS left the home, he left the family. The BS is just the primary target and representative that takes most of the hits.

JMHO,
L.

orchid,

Very well said , and thats how i feel as well. You just say it better than me.... I get long and drawn out .....

Hurting. I so agree with Orchid. (Hi L) Unfortunately I am further down this path and DOrk has used ME as the excuse to NOT see DD. IN the last 11 months a total of 6 or 7 visists. Now granted DD is only 13 and she has made it VERY clear that she will NOT see Dork without me present. So instead of sucking it up, he refuses ALL contact!
Another poster here said that WH is still the children's father. UH Not necessarily.

IMVHO A WS is NOT a parent in the REAL sense of th eword. That is They are not a role model for their children. A parent is involved and tries to set an example of HOW to be a good human being. And in my case at least. That is so not true. Lying, committing adultery, and avoiding dealing with ANY issues that make the WS feel bad about themselves? HMMMM...

I guess I am not even sure if DD13 will EVER forgive her former father. I say that becasue he is NOT acting like a REAL father now. ANd has not for over a YEAR!.

And DD13 is TRYING to forgive him in the sense that she wants Dork to stop being Dork and be her father and a real H again. BUT she will NOT accept his current actions.

In our case DD13 sent Dork a Plan B letter. THat she has stuck to. She has recently (a week) started to send him emails. But askes him to try to justify his choices. And he hasn't been able to. UH DUH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

And she is firm in her commitment to her values and morals that Adultery is NEVER okay. That if and only if, Dork repents, asks for forgiveness from God and us, Ditches the Ditchpig4 AND maintains regular IC and FC, she will see him.

And in her eyes that is non-negotiable.

And frankly, I concur.And am proud of her stand for doing the right thing. NO matter how hard it is.

I have NEVER denied Dork access. In fact none of the visits, save one, were at his instigation. So, I honestly have searched my soul and my heart and do NOT beleive that I have done anything but encourage a relationship. THat he won't try to fix. Because he insists that he can only see her if she is "nice" to any woman he is with. DUH! Not going to happen any time soon.

Me, I am in a Plan B. BUt with some contact becasue of the distance (4-5 hours away) and becasue Dork will not sign the LS stuff. And I cannot afford to keep going through my lawyer. And he refsue to listen to the intermediary that I do have when he is advised of emails pertaining to financials. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Basically Dork ignores all of my email. WHich is another issue enitrely Can we say HUGE CA? Ostrich? Sheesh.

Fighting,

Wow, I don't even know your DD and I proud of her for standing her ground and knowing what morals are. You have done a wonderful job with her.

I like you have NOT denied WH acess to the kids but I let them make the decsions reguarding when and how they see him.

I think my DD is so afraid of making her father mad that she goes along without saying anything to him. She has told him she does not approve of what he has done and hurt our family but yet she will allow herself to be around the OW just to see her dad.

I wish at 18 my DD had the same thinking process as your DD at 13 does. But I have decided I can do nothing about it and must let it roll off my back. Because I think in time she will see the truth for what it is and then things will be different. Until then I am staying out of it. I don't want to ever be accused of not allowing WH to see his kids.

I know someday he is going to crash and burn and all of this will eat at him and I just have to bide my time for now.

(((hurting) Yes, I am incredibly proud of my DD13. And yes, of my job with her. To tell you the turth ALL of my children are like that. They absolutely refuse to let an injustice just slide. But the are not unforgiving. Just strong people. ANd yes it has much to do with my own beleifs.

I can appreciate that your DD is torn. And I cna understand that she loves her father. I hope that she is not overwhelemd with guilt for her not standing up to her own principles. WHen you say she is scard that her father will be mad at her? THat concerns me. It sounds like she is a bit of a CA and perhaps not that secure in her feeling that her father will love her no matter what! I might be worng but is it possible that she is stuffing her own ideas and feelings so that everyone will like her. It is hard to watch your children struggle. I know I want to "save" them. Unfortunatley part of growing up is letting them fall. SIgh,.

You are doing amazingly well.

I agree with Orchid. Frankly, I think the statement 'I left you, I didn't leave the kids' is pure fog-talk.

To the WS, it is less reprehensible to leave a spouse than it is to leave young children. My WH said that he was prepared to give up everything for the OW (even his children - he was genuinely prepared never to see them again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ) whilst at the same time saying to anyone who'd listen that he left me, and not the kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

What B$.

Alph.

hurting....

Sorry to interapt your post...but I have a technical question for you.....

I have noticed that you are able to change the title of your thread continuosly....How do you do that?

I have been trying to change mine. I went to edit the title of my very first post on my thread but it will not let me edit it saying that I have reached some limit as to how many times I can edit. I only changed it 2x! Have you run into this type of problem?

Thank you......

BTW....I have been reading your posts and I really do feel for your D....it is a terrible possition to be in when she wants to be with her father yet he is treating the whole family so badly.....it can tear her up inside....

Take care of yourself...enjoy the holidays....

Daisy

Daisy,

They have a time limit on changing th thread title. I believe its 60 days.

Maybe if you look on the main page somewhere it can tell you....

Thank you all for your support as well.....

Happy Thanksgiving to all

thanks hurting....if I don't figure it out, I'll just stick with my other title...not a bid deal...just old.

I just read your posts on your other thread....

I really wish you could get some peace for a change. It seems just one thing after another from your WH. Lets hope your thanksgiving is uneventful with respect to WH. I think you DS is doing great....I am amazed sometimes how stong the kids are.....there were some things I delt with when I was in my teens with my parents and I am now amazed how well I handled it all.....now I am a much bigger mess....is it not suppose to get better with age?

Enjoy your holiday...really hope you get some break here...

Daisy

Daisy,

Thank you I hope you have a nice Thanksgiving as well.

WH is coming to pick DD up about 1:30 so I will a,ready be gone from the house. So I won't see him. I am just going to have ot remind DD he is not allowed in the house according to the LS papers without my consent. But to be safe I am locking papers and other things up. I have fixed it were he can't get into my bedroom.

I just want to have a peaceful day with no talk of WH by anyone. it's already going to be hard enough without having to speak of him.

Hurting,

Happy Thanksgiving. I'll be around today (Canadian). I'd like to know if your daughter talks to you. I'm curious as to how she's feeling.

Cat

Cat,

I have not spoken to DD about this anymore. I decided not to bring it up to her anymore. She has not come to me about any of it. Now if after being with WH and OW today she wants to talk we will.

My IC had a thought about it though uesterday and it made some sense to me. She said that perhaps DD feels like she is loosing her dad to OW'S , DD so she will basically suck her feelings about what is happening to be able to show him and her that she is the REAL DD. See OW'S DD is calling WH dad and both of my children are bothered by it. DS has told WH he does not like it. IC says DD probably in fear of loosing her dad and will do whatever it takes to keep the connection. So it makes semse to me , I don't like that maybe she feels this way because she should not have to go to such great lengths to have her dad.

Anyhow I will wait for her to come to me unless I see some sign of problems and I need to address it. So after today I will update how it went with her.

What your IC said makes a lot of sense. What a tough place you're both in...

Dear Hiok,

Sounds like your Dd is trying to plan A her father. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> .

Reassure her of your love. It is probably something she feels she must do, then will realize how futile it was later. Then the anger and frustration will return but with a greater vengence...... she will really need you and the 3rd party person.

A righteously angry child is not a pleasant person for a wayward parent to deal with. Wonder if you Ws realizes that later in life when he will need his children, wonder how they will treat him after he pulls this kind of crap on them.......just wondering.

L.

Well I just returned from my SIL'S. I just couldn't do it, I tried so hard to have a nice time and I just couldn't.

Just seeing all of the family together and knowing WH would not be with us was just to much for me. I made it through the dinner before I fell apart. DD called from OW'S home but SIL told her we were eating so the call was cut short. The about 3 mins. later the phone rang again and it was WH, my SIL was trying to be very quiet and answer his questions. He was asking her how to make the special green beans we always made for Thanksgiving. So she told him basically how to do but left out some of the ingrediants. I guess he was trying to make it like home. Well I hope he failed miserably.

I knew this was going to be hard but never realized how hard, I can't even imagine whta Christmas is going to be like.

Orchid, I think your right about DD she seems to be doing a planA on WH. I don't think it will do her much good right now seeing how his head is still in the fog. I assured her this morning I was ok and I loved her. She said you know mom I am only going for the grub. I know she was trying to make me feel better. I told her its ok and have a good time.

Well now I am going to work on my tree. Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.

Hurting -

Sorry you were so sad on Thanksgiving. It does get better. This is my third one without WH and I had a wonderful day so far. You just have to keep moving on, and make the best of things that you can. The first Thanksgiving, I just went through the motions for my kids.

I saw OW's husband and her daughter at the store last night buying their things for Thanksgiving. It was sad. But he has carried on the tradition, and done the cooking all by himself. I really admire that man.