Hi everyone, I have been looking at the website all day and night....everyone seems so supportive here, so i finally just got the guts to jump on in. I am a little new with the abbreviations, but I am trying.

My story is this: My husband left me a week and a half ago, after a huge argument and then served me with papers two days later- not even for a seperation, he is set on a divorce. He says he still loves me, but he can’t do this anymore. We have only been married a few years, and have no children. Over a year ago, though we seemed so happy and in love, he had a one-night stand (but then continued talking to OW for about a week, then NO CONTACT as he changed ph. #'s and she lived in another state) He admitted the cheating, and although I almost left him, we started counseling and re-committed to each other and tried to rebuild the foundation of our relationship (we even read the marriage builders book aboout coping with an affair) Things were rough, as it was a lot harder to forgive and trust him again than I had anticipated, especially when he lied about something else to me while I was trying to trust him again....as the months went on, I punished him more and more for what he had done. Ultimately, I pushed him away completely. Now he says that I can never get over it, and that it has led to me lashing out at him to try and even the score. Now that he is gone, of course I realize that he did try very hard to make up for what he did. And I was using the infidelity as an excuse to scream at him, or demand reassurance or attention....in a sick way, I think I may have been holding on to it because I thought once I forgave him or stopped punishing him, the devoted, attentive behavior would stop, or he might go out and do it again.....I guess it did finally take him leaving for me to see what I was doing, and that I am wiling to forgive. My only fear is that now it is too late. I love him with all of my heart. We have both made some huge mistakes in this marriage, but I just know that we are giving up too soon. I know that if we try again, we can make it. I am now seeing the counselor alone, as is he. I have recently started medication which the doctor encouraged after diagnosing me with depression as a result of the trauma of being betrayed... Though I am not trying to make excuses for my behavior, the material I have read on depression says that anger and anxiety and overreacting are all symptoms of the imbalance. I feel that with the help I am getting, and the realization that I was using what he had done to me as a “free pass” to be awful to him, I think it can be so different. I just can’t believe that we are going to give up so soon, and especially after what we have already been through. In his eyes, we tried but we couldn’t get past it. I am saddened that it took separating for me to finally find the courage to forgive him. All I want is for us to come together and concentrate on our future, rather than continuing to re-live the past. I can finally put it behind me, if he can do the same and forgive me for treating him this way for so long. Of course I am not excusing what he did, but I realize now, that perhaps if I didn’t get this wake-up call that I would have continued bringing it up forever. I understand what I did, but since I stayed in the marriage when I was so hurt and scared and devastated, don’t you think he should try and do the same now? How can I get him to see that we deserve one last chance? I of course am in denial, I am blindsided and I have no idea how I am going to get through this. Of course after the cheating, he swore and swore that he would NEVER do it again, and that above all else, he would never leave. Now what???? Our families are devestated, our friends are shocked....is there nothing I can do but sit here and wait for his next move? Every few days, I get another phone call or email from him, telling me his next move- i.e, he has gotten a P.O. Box, or has called a realtor to sell the house we just bought 6 months ago. I of course feel like I am free-falling and this is all going at lightning-speed. He says he will not give us another chance, and he won't even talk about "us", just "buisness matters". He swears there is no one else, and I am pretty sure that there isn't, but I have no idea what to think anymore. So needless to say, I do NOT want this but it is happening. Is there anything I can do? Is there any chance for us?? Any help would be appreciated- oh, and one last thing, there is a slight chance I might be pregnant- he does not know this, and I took a test today which was negative, but I am pretty late- maybe just the stress, and not eating/sleeping? Thanks for letting me vent!

laura ,

I am so sorry you are going through this. I know how hard it is. I am not one of the wise ones here but believe me they will come along and help you.

The weekends are pretty slow around here, so make sure you try and bump up you story as most of the wise ones will be around on Monday. Some of them pop in on the weekends so just keep bumping and watching for them ...

Again I think you have come to the right place and the support here is awesome. Please take care of yourself and try and stay calm.

Hurting

Laura, sorry you find yourself here...
It sounds like you've done some good soul-searching about realizing the love-busters in your relationship. I, too, felt that I had a free pass to be angry, hostile, hurt, crying, and I think it is profound insight to realize that once you stopped that behavior and forgave him that you feared that the loving, attentive behavior would stop.

That is a trust issue. Not trust as in "is he cheating?" but trust as in "can I trust this person to hold my heart in their hand, and that they want my best?" Our pastor pointed that definition of trust out to us, post-A, and it was helpful. We had definite trust issues from the day we were first married by that definition! I didn't trust that he had my needs at heart, and vice versa.

Is there any way you can find out if he is involved with another A? Perhaps he's just "had it" with you, but to up & leave indicates to me that he has somewhere to go... someone to go to... ?

Where is he living now?

How long have you been married? How long did you date before that? Live together?

Work your best Plan A, maybe write him a letter with what you have said here (your realizations). If the letter works, he is not in an A. If it doesn't work, then an OW is a distinct possibility. Most people don't want to proceed with a D unless every stone has been overturned, every hope exhausted. Your letter would provide a tremendous amount of hope to him I think. Whether there is an OW or not, you will want to handle this the same way, Plan A.

Keep posting, hugs to you.

NTL

Your current situation...

"He swears there is no one else."

I would validate this before I went head-first back into this marriage.

He seems awfully quick to divorce !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Hire a PI and have him followed ..... this is pretty suspicious the way he suddenly left.

so sorry .....

I'm with Pep, I smell a rat. I would have him followed and do some sleuthing to see if the affair is still on. It sure sounds like it never ended.

Yup, me too! Hire a PI or do the searching yourself! it's amazing what you can find out if you really try! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Hi everyone, thanks for the input. Here are the answers to your questions..

I truly don't think the A, or any other A is going on, although I of course can't truly be sure.

My husband is living with his friend (2x divorced, affairs both times) and his friend's new fiance.

I did write him a letter, completely stuck to Plan A in it, did not let myself be negative or accuse him of anything or lash out...I actually hadn't even planned on giving it to him yet, was going to give it to counselor first to see what she thought, but I left it at home and when he came to get stuff while I was at work, he took it.

His response is that I would say anything to get him back at this point. He doesn't think I mean any of it. He says if he comes home, it will just go back to the way it was.

He doesn't want to talk about "us" for more than a few minutes, then he starts to get upset and wants to talk "buisness"- i.e. the bills, selling our brand new dream house, etc.

I agree that the suddenness of this smells and looks like an affair, but I have absolutely NO proof. I know he has no contact with his one night stand, and she lives out-of-state, so I can't see him running to her....he works with all males, and has been at work 10 out of the 11 days he has been gone, so I just don't know that it would be possible- but I guess you never know.

We have been married two years, together for 5, we have known eachother for 12.

The other part of this equation is my husband is a cop. He is very "tecnical" and "by the book" about things. When we got in our last argument, when I found out he hadn't been wearing his ring, we were screaming at eachother and things got out of hand- NO violence of course, but he decided to call the police instead of letting the neighbors....they took a report of a "disturbance" but that there was no physical altercation (sp?). This is what put him "over the line", that the police had to come. Of course it was humiliating, for both of us. He thinks that if that could happen, then it COULD get to the next leevel, which of course would cost him his job. That's what made him file the papers, or at least what he told me, and the therapist.

He says that for his career to be threatened is a dealbreaker, that the trust is gone and can never be restored....but he won't even try. Which of course is so hurtful because I tried, even though his cheating was a dealbreaker for me.

He is seeing the counselor alone tomorrow, I guess I will see what happens after that. I can't believe that he can keep this stone-cold mask on much longer.

I am praying for us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like an affair to me too. I would check it out very carefully.

In the meantime, stay in Plan A. But get out and do things for yourself, and don't focus on him.

Yeah, keep up your Plan A.

Have you read any other threads on here about the digital voice recorders placed under the seat of his car? Just a thought, it would have worked well for me if I had known then about it...

Despite what you've said here, I think he has someone to go to, leaving you like this... a cop certainly doesn't work with ALL men, do they? Plus they meet people in the course of their day...? Do you see his phone records?

Laura, I also saw your post on the wedding rings survey... you know, my H did the exact same thing - walked right in his Dad's footsteps. The one thing he never wanted to do. I didn't know when I got married how important it was to look at the family structure of the person you are marrying. I just thought H was so persevering, to have come out so well from all he was put thru by his parents!

Now I do KNOW that he is so persevering, but it hasn't been easy for him or me. He's a self-examining, reflective, smart type of guy who has come out of a bad situation stronger. But I was ill-prepared for such a life.

Yes, of course he doesn't work with ALL men, just his squad happens to be....and yes of course he runs into women while out on the field....

I am not trying to be naive at all, I just think it would be a lot easier for him just to tell me if there was someone else, because then I would just leave him alone....
Of course it is a possibility, and of course I don't want that to be true, but time will tell. I will not bury my head in the sand...

I am not suspicious enough for the PI, I will see if the therapist thinks that is a good idea, because then at least I wouldn't be holding on to false hope....as for the microphone under the car, I could have done that a while ago had I known, but it is too late now- he isn't staying at the house and I can't risk going to his work or friend's house to do it.....

I do have access to his phone records, and after breaking off contact with OW (in front of me) on 7-22-04, he changed his cell phone # and I checked every month to make sure he never called her again, which he didn't. I also installed one of the computer monitoring devices on the computer, just to be safe, and he wasn't doing anything fishy online either....so IF there is an A going on, I am assuming it is not the same OW from the one-night stand....

As for the Dad issue, of course I haven't said anything about this to him, because it would just hurt him, but I just can't believe he is falling into the same trap- the very thing he was trying to avoid his whole life....I was just sure that he wouldn't, but now I am afraid he has sort of thrown his hands up and thought, "this is just who I am, why fight it?" and now it is becoming a self-fufilling prophicy (sp?) or something...

I don't know what to do, are you sure Plan A is right for this situation? Our therapist is saying NO CONTACT would be more appropriate????

It makes me sick to think that there is another A, or that the 1st one never ended, but it would account for this bizzare behavior...

Someone help please

Laura I'm sorry you here but glad you found MB.

I'm not one of the wise one but....It sounds like you had some pretty negative encounters, plan A would be good to turning things to a more positive note. read up on mimi's plan A with 180's...where you are not totally available to him.

It sounds like you've already started the process with soulsearching and taking ownership of your behaviors. Is your couselor aware of MB? Is counselor pro-marriage?

Red flag for H to be in such a rush? Whats the hurry? Smells like A.

Keep posting and take care of yourself

I am trying the Plan A, but it is so hard, it seems he is purposefully trying to hurt me, or start a fight everytime he emails or calls....and he refuses to see me.

Counselor knows we used MB book right after the affair, and next time I go, I will discuss it with her again....

She is pro-marriage, is just as shocked as I am, and thinks no contact would be best, but I am not so sure....Plan A I have seen, but could you direct me to Plan A with 180's??

Thanks so much for all your input and advice...

I know the rushing is such a red flag, but even the counselor is doubtful of the affair. Of course, he could be lying to her, but he isn't going with me anymore, just by himself, so I don't see the point of lying in therapy....

I am trying my hardest not to break down, but it is just paralyzing me to think of going through with this divorce, moving out of our house, losing our future together....I finally felt like we were so close to recovery, and now this.

I am having trouble just getting through the day, yet he seems like this is just no big deal, although he says it is so hard for him.

This is someone who just a few weeks ago, cried and told me how much he loved me and would die without me.

I could not be more devastated. Is it hopeless?

I hate to say it, but my FWH lied in IC to his therapist about the relapse for over a month. He lied to our small group at church and told his affair-story and all about our recovery with me sitting there holding his hand, AFTER IT WAS ALL STARTED UP AGAIN!

I'm not trying to scare you, but as Dr. Phil says, you can't change what you don't acknowledge. If there is A, and it seems likely, you need to know that.

If you & your therapist like NC, then read "When the One You Wants to Leave" by Donald(?) Harvey (not Harley, although obviously those are good books too!) and "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson. At least those two books are pro-marriage and show you how to do no-contact in a way that is likely to save your marriage and not lead to divorce.

Don't think about divorce and moving right now - worry about each day as it comes. Don't worry about things that haven't happened yet, today's worries are enough for today.

It is NOT hopeless. But I do think it does not add up that he is not in an A. Go on the assumption with your actions that he is having an affair. You can just call his bluff and act like you know through some means you won't disclose, and then he will probably admit it. Just don't back down that you know he is having an A. Calmly, of course. Not throwing the family china into the wall. This way you can pick the time & place for the D-Day #2/3... so sorry, but it's what I see.

If he is having an affair, hope is not lost. There are stories after stories on this board from people who at one point or another figured all hope was lost. I'm one of them.

If you decide to minimize contact, just make sure when you DO talk to him for any reason you do not do any Love Busters - read up about them. Be careful of angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements (so hard when he's being a fogged-out alien), and selfish demands. Plan A doesn't mean you act like nothing's wrong. After all, he is leaving you. You don't have to be okay with that, or pretend that you are!

As far as pointing out the similarities to his Dad? It wouldn't do any good coming from you anyway right now. Leave it to others... my H's sister and mother and aunt pointed it out to him, as if he couldn't see it for himself. He felt the same as your H about controlling his own bad impulses and behavior - "This is who I am - I give up." Also, in my FWH's case "OW understands me. She is even more messed up than me. I can show her the way out of her problems. My W doesn't need me. I can rescue OW."

Keep posting - and yes, don't bury your head in the sand. Once you know the truth, then you can deal with reality. If it's not an A, then I really think your letter and Plan A kindness should be working to turn things around. I think he's just using you hanging on to the hurt to justify his current A. Sorry to say that, I know it isn't what you want to hear, and I hope I'm wrong.

NTL

Hi again everyone.....I can't believe how much has changed, in just a few days....My husband went to the MC on Monday....told her things that she told me, with his permission, that have truly made me hit rock bottom.

He swears there is no A, though of course I do not believe it.

He told her he had already made two appointments to pick up the paperwork for the divorce before actually doing it....I was just sick when she told me this.

How could he do that and not tell me? How could he sit there in counseling and pretend that everything was ok? He swore to me that he was happy, that we were going to be ok, and that he understood about the depression, and the behavior, and that he didn't blame me for any of it.

She told me that there is NO HOPE for our marriage. She actually said those words. She said that he is "DONE" and that I should not expect anything to change and that I need to accept that the divorce is happening.

According to her, he actually sat there emotionless while talking about our marriage crumbling. She said he seemed like a different person, and that he might even be relieved that this is all over.

I feel sick inside, all of this is just killing me.

I cannot believe this is happening, I thought for sure that after talking to her for a little while that he would stop being this cold, heartless person that he has become over the last 2 weeks.

I have hit rock bottom, I am still in denial, I am crushed, I am heartbroken and I am so full of regret for everything that happened.

At the same time, I could not be more angry at him for never coming to me when he was so hurt, or mad, or frustrated that he had to call for an appointment to file for divorce.

Why couldn't he have told me then when we might have had a chance to work on the marriage?

Why would he wait until now?

I feel like he set me up.....

Please help, I am so devastated I just want to go to sleep and never wake up.

This is so unfair. How could he have an A, and then give me hope and start MB with me, and then lie to me again many times, and tell me all of this time that everything is going to get better, that he will never be a WS again, that he will never leave, and then walk out the door and never look back?

I have never been more hurt in my life.....why didn't he just leave after the A if he was going to leave? Why did he come back home? This was so much worse, because during what I thought was our "recovery", he had one foot out the door the entire time. At least if he had left back then, I might have been able to pick up the pieces of my life and start again by now.....instead, for the second time in all two years that I have been married to this man, he has broken me inside.

Someone please help. I don't think I can get through another day of this.

Laura, from what you have posted your WH sounds like a man who is extremely guilt-ridden and, most of all, a huge coward. He does not have the courage to face what he has done. He would rather get a divorce than have to own up to being the liar and cheater that he is.

Why has he lied to you and lied in IC, you ask? Because he's a coward who cannot face who he really is.

I can only tell you that none of this is, or was, about you. I hope that will be of some comfort to you. Maybe you can work with his IC yourself and try to get some insight as to what kind of man he is and why he has done what he's done. She should also be able to reinforce that it IS NOT and NEVER WAS about you.

I'm not trying to frighten you with what I'm about to say, so just stay with me for a minute: In a way, men like your WH remind me somewhat of men like Scott Peterson and Bruce Hacking. They were extreme cases, of course, but both were huge liars who killed their wives when finally faced with undeniable proof of reality. Men like your WH, and probably mine as well, are not a physical danger to you but they will "kill" their marriage by divorcing when inescapable proof of their wrongdoing is brought to light. They cannot face it and they refuse to deal with it, so they make it go away -- either with immediate divorce or, if they are truly sociopathic, with murder.

I hope this makes sense to you.

Again, this is an extreme case and I am only mentioning this to make you see that your WH's actions are NOT about you. His actions are 100% about his extreme cowardice and complete refusal to face the truth of who he really is.

Please keep posting. Others will be along with better advice. I just want you to understand that his actions are NOT about you.
Mulan

Laura,

You are NOT going to like what I have to say. First you are rewriting history here a bit if your post on D/D board is correct. For a year he has tried to talk with you, make up for what he did, and you pushed him away. Then you two have an arguement that might lead to him losing his career.

And then you come and post your last post about WHY and HOW could he be the way he has been in the last two weeks. You don't seem to get the fact the no one likes being betrayed BUT it is also true the NO one likes being pushed way repeatedly and then have their career threatened.

I don't think you realize that although his decision to have a ONS was a really stupid decision that perhaps you could not get over, it was equally true that a year of rejection by you was a decision HE could not get over.

It seems unlikely to me that you two have a chance until you realize that you have a role in this mess and it was NOT small. You had choices, you made your choices, and your choices had consequences just as his do/did.

So quit the whining, and IF you really want to save this marriage, pay attention to the fact that what you have been doing has and will NOT work. If you want this marriage, you need to realize he will not risk more rejection and he will not risk losing his career for a lost cause which is the message you have been giving him for a year.

So your message needs to change, your view of things need to change, and your plan needs to change. His counselor is only relating what he/she heard. And I am sure at this moment he is DONE. But, people change their minds and what may be DONE today, may not be a week, a month, a year from now.

It is YOUR call with regard to your future efforts and plans. You can call it quits, or you can decide to fight this. Your choice, not his. It may work, it may not work, but if you decide to let it go, the marriage is in fact over.

So stop the victim routine and take control of YOUR life. This has been your call for a long time and you were afraid to make it. Make it now.

God Bless,

JL

I know you are right that I need to stop being a victim, BUT HOW?????

Do I just continue being pleasant when we talk? He won't see me, he has now been gone for 2 weeks, and he just keeps moving forward every day with this divorce...that is ALL he wants to talk about- I have given up on the "US" talk, but he won't even just have a normal conversation about life, our work or our families....he even told me that I am not to call him for that, that I have plenty of friends that I can talk to....

I want to not give up, but I have no idea what to do and what not to...I tried just leaving him nice messages, he told me to stop...I call him just to talk, he tells me to stop....If I email him, he tells me to stop.

It seems pretty obvious that it is in fact over, so how long do I hold on to the hope that this will change? I am just so afraid trying to be friendly with him will make him think I am manipulating him and drive him even further away.

Laura,

You asked
Are you being pleasant just because he is leaving or because that is the way you would like to interact with him no matter what? Make that decision first.



Let's see if we can frame this differently. If he lost hope, and he filed, he does NOT want to be reminded that HE might have acted prematurely does he? No one wants their best theory shot down by data. Just as you did not want his actions to reconcile to influence your need to protect yourself. So you pushed him away. Guess what he is doing? The same thing. Did you change your mind? Eventually, when HE left.

I think if he is to change his mind, it will be once he has had time to realize what he has lost.


Of course he tells you to stop, but he has not changed his email or his phone. He let the Counselor tell you what he could not bring himself to say. I think he is in more pain and doubt than you realize.


It was clear his ONS was over as well, but it took you awhile to see things differently didn't they. It will take him awhile perhaps even a divorce. But, you know marriage are rekindled and remarriage is also a possibility. Be pleasant, act with Grace, and keep your eyes open for opportunities to show him YOU have changed. It is indeed possible to change this. It is your call if it is worth it to you.


Trying to be friendly is NOT manipulating IF you intend to be friendly even if he continues with the divorce. What he thinks right now is being influenced by the previous behaviors. So if you change make sure it is a change you want to make no matter what, then stick with it.

I hope this helps you some. I realize you are hurting, but realize it will take time for things to heal no matter what he does about the divorce.

God Bless,

JL

You have so much wisdom, where were you a few months ago or where was I not on this website then???

To answer your questions, of course I want to be pleasant with him in general, not just because he has left me. Unfortunately, I do let myself react to things, and I commit LB's at times, and then I kick myself of course, because I know he is thinking "see she has not changed at all." However, how am I not suppossed to NOT be devastated when I hear that he has almost filed before and never told me?

I try my hardest to control my emotions, but I slip....does the ability to stop that come with time? Will I ever learn?

If you think he will only change his mind when he realizes what he has lost, does that mean I have no contact with him, as the counselor suggests? Because I thought that was doing nothing, and just letting this marraige end???

You are right, I need to be plaesant no matter what happens with the divorce, because me reacting and being so emtional was what scared him so much in the past....it is just SO much easier said than done....I love him and miss him and just feel so panicked over all of this that all I want to do is stop it, and I make so many mistakes, even still, as I know how destructive they can be....what is wrong with me?

I have realized my part in the failure of this marraige, and I am so sad that it had to come to this for me to see, but NOW WHAT? I have told him everything I can possibly say, and he just doesn't buy it, and won't even spend one hour with me to see if any of it is true....I just don't know if I am strong enough to keep being loving toward him, even though of course my feelings have not changed, if this divorce just keeps happenning.....I am afraid eventually the rejection will be too much for me to bare.