New to MB but feel blessed to have found it. My H and I have been married 18 years, been together since we were 15 years old, I have never been with anybody else and would like to believe that my H has not either (at least physically). We have had many problems over the years but managed to stay together until now. H became very cold, distant, stopped saying I love you, lost all desire for sex, etc...I looked at the cell phone records and discovered he had been spending hours a week on the phone with a married mutual friend of ours and additional hours with a woman he works with. I left the records out so he would know that I knew and his reply was 'I never meant to hurt you. Aren't I allowed to have friends? There are certain things you can't talk to your wife about.' WHAT????
I call this an EA, he thinks I'm crazy for suggesting he is having an affair because he 'hasn't had sex with them.' I feel very betrayed. Hearing from people that yes, this constitues an affair. Do you agree or disagree. He moved out over a month ago, I told him I wanted a divorce after I found out about the phone calls.

Does spending hours a week on the telephone with another woman constitue an affair? single choice
	yes
	no
Votes accepted starting: 10/09/05 07:10 PM
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Read up here on Emotional Affairs, but also Plan A + Exposure of the affair to his boss, Human Resources and his family, as well as OW's H if there is one...

You know it's an affair, because it was a betrayal. The comments and quotes I could insert here are enormous.

Dr. Phil - "If you wouldn't do it with your spouse standing there in the room, it's cheating."

He was lying by omission, then became defensive and justifying when it was disclosed that you knew, instead of taking your feelings into account. That is what I refer to as him "steam-rolling over your reasonable boundaries." That is what my H did like crazy RIGHT before the physical affair started.

You are right to draw the line here - if I had it to do over I would have brought the sky crashing down when my H was disregarding my relationship boundaries the way your H is now. Instead I sort of questioned his closeness with OW (his boss) and told him I wasn't that comfortable with it. I told him (since I thought nothing was going on) that he should at least respect how it LOOKED to others in the office with him going to lunch with her every day, etc. He reassured me and I trusted him. Silly me.

The only thing is that I don't think you should be threatening divorce. You should be stating your desire to work on the marriage (assuming that's the case) but also your refusal to tolerate these emotional or other sorts of infidelities. If that causes HIM to file for divorce, or talk about it all the time, you can deal with that here with advice from MBers.

In answer to his question, isn't he allowed to have friends? No, not friends of the opposite gender, where his wife is excluded. There are certain things you can't talk to your wife about???? Baloney. You are right to trust your instincts.

How are you doing, he's been gone over a month?? Do you have children together, what are their ages?

NTL

Hunmingbird:

I have to agree with Nottolost. This sounds like at least a full blown EA. Hopefully, it hasn't turned to a PA yet but if you don't take action, I can just about guarantee you that it will, and probably sooner rather than later.

There is nothing good that can come out of this for you and your WH. He needs to start NC immediately. The relatioship is inappropriate and his messages to you sound they he took them directly out of the "Rationalizations for cheating spouses handbook." Start Plan A, talk to him about the importance of radical honesty in a relationship, complete the EN questionaire and discuss it with him. Obviously there is something that he feels like he needs and he is making a poor choice to go outside of the M to find it. Combine that with a similarly situated WW and you have the makings of a full blown PA on your hands.

Get him on this site and let him talk to some of the FWS and BS if he truly believes that what he is doing is not wrong. Take action immediately. If you are passive and wait and continue to believe his BS, you will regret it.

Hummingbird,

From my own experience hours of telephone calls aren't just telephone calls. My H convinced me for weeks that that is all it was when I found the phone records. Then when I finally confronted OW, she admitted it all and he had to too. She was single with nothing to lose by exposure...we weren't friends either. Your OW may deny it to the grave because she is married and your friend.

But just be prepared. When I discovered the phone bills and talked to a friend who had been through this same situation she said to me "chances are you are only getting the tip of the iceberg. More than likely there is more to come" That was her experience and it turned out to be mine to.

The fact that he has moved out is a very bad sign and certainly gives him PLENTY of opportunity to do what he wants. Don't be shocked if you find out more...I wouldn't be.

Please do what you need to to get to the TRUTH! Then act accordingly to either save your marriage hopefully with NC (we saved ours) or end it.

Good luck and let us help you through this if you need help.

2

Hummingbird,

I don't know if your husband is involved in an affair but I do know that spending hours on the phone with a specific person (other sex) is a "Red Flag"..........

I never used to look at my husbands cellphone bill (even though I could have anytime) but on d-d I did.
I don't know why but when I saw the calls he was making and how many and for how long, I knew something was NOT right.

I confronted him immediately and due to the fact that he couldn't convince me of anything logical, he admitted.

Long and frequent calls are BIG signs that something is NOT right!!!!! Listen to your gut!!!!

bb

As a FWS, that is how I started, hours on the phone with an old BF.

As a BS, that is how my WH got caught, text messages from a woman that he might not have been physical with yet, but they spent hours on the phone together.

Both realtionships ended up in marital separation and now WH is looking for a divorce.

In my WH's six month A, he only had S with OW 2 times and me 3 times. The A WAS the phone calls. I would have rather he had prostitute every week that for him allowing OW to become his confidant.

Babble:

No, a married man is not allowed to have girlfriends. Then talk to your priest or preacher not your girlfriend.

My A started out as just conversation, and the moved to a PA. Most the the A was talking because we lived apart, and believe me, that emotional connection fueled the physical part when I saw him.

Whether your H wants to see it or not, he is in an EA. He is allowing someone else of the opposite sex to meet his EN.

YES ...

he is having an affair.

Who cares if he thinks an EA is actually an affair? What matters is this ...

Is he holding you in a special place where he wants to love, protect and adore you?

Call the other woman's husband and offer the phone records as evidence... expose this mess now.

Thanks everyone! Your responses are welcome and appreciated. Pepperband, I did call the OW's husband as he is a dear friend of mine as well. He was shocked at first then he told me that his wife had mentioned to him "just this past weekend that she had been talking to ------ because I don't return his phone calls." I explained to him that his wife just told him this weekend because I was calling the numbers on the phone bill to see who they belonged to and she knew it was me calling (my H's # is one digit different than mine!) That is why my H was so angry, the OW spouse appearantly blew up at her and now my H feels like he has "lost two friends because I got them involved in this." How funny! I got them involved? Did I miss something or was HE making and receiving the phone calls from the OW? My H and I talk every couple of days and he comes to the house a couple of times a week to see the kids and wash his clothes. It seems like it's getting harder for him to leave each time. I want to use the MB methods to save my marriage as I am still very much in love with my husband. What is "plan A and Plan B" where can I find that info on this site?

Hey bird, you did just the right thing. Be very careful and keep spying, often they just keep on communicating any way they can. Work with OWH.

Get to MC, and be prepared for any number of nasty surprises. Good luck.

Hummingbird, you did good! Very brave, you should be proud of yourself. Of course he's blaming you. Just smile & nod, whatever... like you would do to an insane person <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

The link above might work to take you there, I'm not too good at this. But if you go to the Home Page, click on surviving infidelity, and look at the list of "letters" there Plan A & Plan B are the last letter on the left.

One word of caution, do not get WH into MC right now, only go to IC until you are in recovery. MC can be very explosive and destructive while the A is on-going. I have read that from experts here.

Your thread is similar to Scarne (cybersex story) here on this board, in that neither of you was certain an A was going on.

Do your MB concepts reading... you'll be glad you did.
NTL

This is how I discovered my h's affair. At the time I discovered it via cell records, I noticed they were talking almost 800 minutes per month!!!!!!!!!!! It was always after I went to bed or was at the store.

These calls look like a sickness as they were something like this:

1AM 1 minute
1:05AM: 2 minutes
2AM-40 minutes
3AM - 10 minutes

Bizarre to me!!!

Once I discovered and confronted, the calls have died down considerably. He went from 800 minutes per month down to under 100 minutes. Needless to say, I have only known about the A for six weeks.

I was beside myself and have learned that this is out of my hands and he is irrational when he speaks. I am sure you have read on other boards what they say to you. Wow--it was eerie to say the least how common what they say to you is.

My husband is still at home, never ever has he stayed out all night, stays home on weekends also.

She works where he does and they still see each other.

She is willing to wait for him whatever it takes--even 10 years.

I think in time, this A will end.

It does hurt when they say things you know deep down they really don't mean.

Patience is not one of my strong points but I need it now more than ever.

Yes, it is. Our divorce is pending now because of my H having spent so much time on the phone, txt messaging, hand-writing letters, etc. etc. with a female Best Friend that I finally filed and had him served. If the "friend" is more important to one spouse than his/her own spouse, it is an affair.

I experienced all the same symptoms as you did. I let it go on way too long. It's an affair. It's an Emotional Affair.