sc..

my advice all along has been clear and concise..

it is better to start somewhere than no where...

the question is and remains are you willing to attempt the first step...

establishing no contact with the OM

for you
for your husband
for your children
and for the OM....

time is fleeting
life is precious....

are you willing to go no contact...
to atleast try..

if you are not we can not help you...
for there is nothing in healing yourself that fits the agenda of continued contact with the OM...

you gotta start somewhere.....
and without judgement but because it is the most loving step you can take.....
I say start there..
right now


ARK

sckittenpumpkin~

[color:"blue"]I know that this question wasn't directed at me, but I thought that I might be able to offer you some insight where this is concerned...

First, let me say this one final time, please understand that my posts to you offering my advice and opinions will always be out of care and concern and without judgement...I want you to internalize that so that I don't have to preface future posts this way...let it be a given between you and I, okay? I feel like I can "talk" to you "straight up" for a couple reasons, (1) because of my experience with BPD (I really get it) and (2) I am a FWW (again, I really get it)...I will never lie to you, and if I "hear" you making excuses and using justifications and rationalizations, I will call "BULLS#%T!!!"...I hope that you will appreciate that type of no nonsense approach...

All that being said, here's what I think about the posts that you have been receiving...

[color:"black"]1.[/color] Some of the people are trying to use what the folks here call 2x4's to knock you out of the WS Fog...I know because it happened to me here as a WW...at the time, I felt angry towards those people, but later as my fog lifted, and I have gotten to "know" many of those posters, I can see two things, (1) A lot of those 2x4's helped my fog to lift faster, because it forced me to see myself through the eyes of others AND it opened up dialogue for my husband and I regarding my affair and (2) Because I now "know" those posters, I see that they were acting out of care and concern. They were genuinely trying to help, and they did, even if I didn't see it at the time. Try not to discount what you can learn from the opinions of others-good and bad (even if you only learn how not to approach others from the "bad" ones-keep in mind too that what you view as "bad" now, you may view differently later...keep an open mind, you just never know)...Also, if you make kicking people off your thread a habit, you will limit yourself as to who will post to you...which means you will stop getting input from some of the "experts" and limit yourself to "newbies" only...again, you never know what you might learn...try to remember, ACT, DON'T REACT...

[color:"black"]2.[/color] A lot of the people who posted to you don't and won't see that because of your Bipolar Disorder, that puts a whole 'nother twist on your infidelity...that's not an excuse for you, however...I think it's best said like this...[color:"red"]EDITED TO ADD: It could have been considered an excuse before your diagnosis, but now that you know, and if you choose to continue to do nothing about it, then you OWN it all! That includes EVERY single Bipolar induced action-not just the infidelity/promiscuity part. And please don't come back here and tell me that you just aren't really sure about the accuracy of your diagnosis, because that will only further confirm it...[color:"black"]ALL[/color] Bipolars struggle with that, I understand, but I won't accept that baloney, just so we're clear, okay?[/color] Bipolar Disorder may explain your behavior, it doesn't excuse it...Heck, BPD is a very cunning disorder, it's difficult for those who have lived with it and in it to understand...many mental health professionals don't even know how to deal with it...***As a matter of fact, make sure that any psychiatrist or counselor that you go to has TONS of experience with BPD...not just "book learnin", but the hands on real thing***...

[color:"black"]3.[/color] I did some checking on wifeypoo...I will say that I would take anything said by her with a grain of salt...go back and read her advice to others and you will see what I mean...Still, if you get someone else who makes those kinds of posts to you, just IGNORE them...Acknowledging venomous posts gives them power, think about how much more infuriating it would be for them to just be completely IGNORED...Lend no creedance to those posts by addressing them with venom of your own...get it? When you get nasty in return it only validates what they have chosen to post about/to you...In saying this, I realize that this may invite wifeypoo to attack me...SO BE IT...That, and a few bucks will buy me a cup of coffee somewhere, know what I mean? This thread needs to be proactive...As in what are you are going to DO? Talk is cheap...

Seriously, until you begin meds, nothing you or anybody else can say will change your situation...think about your past...If you keep doing things the same way, how can you expect different results? I know that you are far more intelligent than that...So, sckittenpumpkin, let's go about mapping out and executing a plan to get you on track...Do you need help finding a psychiatrist in your area? Today's Goal: MAKE AN APPOINTMENT WITH A PSYCHIATRIST...can you do that? If so, great, come back here and let us know when you are going...If you say that you can't make a psychiatric appt., then I ask that you answer the question WHY NOT?

I'll help you in any way that I can...if you need to chat off the boards, you can contact me at the email address in my signature...

I patiently await your responses...[/color]

Kindest Regards,


Mrs. Wondering

I think I have gathered all the information and advice that I can at this time. There are certain people on here that are judgmental and abusive and have the audacity to think that they are somehow "above" me because I'm having an affair, cheating, whatever you want to term it. I am no less of a human being than anyone else on this site and I resent the fact that people continue to bash me and abuse me. Those of you know who you are and all I can say is that even though you don't think it's abuse it is. Believe me I've grown up with it and still have to deal with this crap all of my adult life. I don't have to take it anymore. I am a wonderful person, a decent human being....I just have some issues. God sees me as His daughter and a treasure. God doesn't love me any less because of my shortcomings. That's how I'm going to see myself from now on. To those of you who can't see the treasure inside of the box I feel sorry for you. I know that I'm a treasure. I know that God loves me. I know that I'm a good human being but I have flaws. I'm not perfect. I will be and am ok. To those of you who gave constructive advice I thank you. I wish you all well.

SCKitten

Now take all that hurt you feel when you think others are judgmental and multiply it by 1000x because an affair is the ultimate in being judgmental against your H.

You are only beginning to feel a small portion of what a betrayed spouse feels like.

God loves you, I believe that. But the same God that loves you as His creation clearly states in His word, the Bible that he hates sin, cannot abide sin, that sin seperates you from that God you cling to.

If what you are saying is that it's ok for me to be imperfect because God loves you. That God will still love you so it's ok to keep betraying my H and children, then I just don't know what to say other than I suggest reading more scripture and asking God to make it clear to you.

Because it's pretty clear to me that God says he is against adultery and against divorce.

T

SCKitten...

I ask in earnest, aside from the specific person that I addressed in my last post to you, can you give me examples of the "abuse" you are referencing here?

Mrs. Wondering

SCK-

I think that you're missing something here...a lot of the people come here to try to help one another. You came here asking for advice on how to deal with things and what you should do now to move forward. And a great number of people have responded to you...and you have completely ignored or refuted any advice that required you to take any kind of action or responsibility for what you've done in your marriage.

What you're taking as an attack is frustration...it's frustrating to offer advice and support to someone who refuses to take it. Especially when they appear to come to you (this board) ASKING for it.

You've acknowledged in your own posts that your entire situation is of your own making...that's fine. So what it all boils down to is this...what are you going to do now to fix it?!?!

You've been given a lot of good advice, and provided a lot of the reasoning behind that advice...so now what?

SC,

I don't think that your problem is as much being without meds, as it is a spiritual problem. Meds cannot heal you spiritually, this I know. Adultery will cause you to be as unstable as BPD.

When my husband committed adultery, he cried and cried.
He told me that "and all the blessings God has given me, my wife, my children, I have thrown away, I have slapped God in the face."

We all know the scriptrue that God will judge the fornicator and the adulterer. You are not "above" that nor is anyone.

The woman in the bible caught in adultery, was "sorry" for her sin, Jesus said "you are forgiven, go and sin no more." Notice, she was "sorry" And so is my H. We have a lot of work to do in our marriage to keep it together.

So if you want to live in an adulterous relationships, expect to be a totally unstable person the rest of your life, and no pill will help that.

Today's Daily Bread....

God wants complete obedience-
Excuses will not do;
His Word and Spirit point the way
As we His will pursue.

One sin becomes two when it is defended.

May God help your children and husband, and may He help you when you have decided to turn away from adultery, and sinful pride.

Love, Lady

ladysheep~

[color:"blue"]I am posting this not just to you, but for the benefit of others here who have posted to sckittenpumpkin and have either really misunderstood her situation or have become extremely frustrated by their advice being ignored...(I'm not picking on you ladysheep, honest)

I know that there have probably been countless Bipolars and/or their spouses here, and there will continue to be, because infidelity IS a symptom of BPD...I know that that seems odd, but I can assure you that it is very true...Again, as I told sc, that just explains the behavior for a Bipolar, it does NOT excuse it...

It is my sincere hope that anyone who reads this will learn that giving advice regarding infidelity where a Bipolar is concerned is a "horse of a different color", and must be handled as such...

That being said, here is a very true, pretty thorough and useful description of BPD from a website called [/url] [url=http://www.themoodynews.com]www.themoodynews.com Some of you may choose not to read the entire article, however, I urge everyone to at least read the lists, they provide a lot of valuable insight about BPD...I think that everyone will recognize characteristics of sckittenpumpkin within these words...[/color]



HOW CAN ANGER BE A SYMPTOM OF AN ILLNESS?
DEFINING THE MOOD DISORDERS, pt 4.
DEPRESSIVE AND MANIC SYMPTOMS


In our lead article, "Annie" notes her amazement in realizing that spending sprees could be a symptom of an illness - bipolar disorder in particular.

And it does seem odd. So odd in fact that we probably should not be surprised that this and other indiscreet behaviors are often seen as willfulness or wantonness, rather than the signs of illness they are for some individuals. How many people - past and present - have demonstrated the signs of mood disorders listed in the chart below, and as a result, been abused, ignored, demeaned, or condescended to, for behaviors they didn't understand or couldn't control?

Difficult or odd behaviors aren't limited to mood disorders, of course. Alzheimer's disease is a pretty classic example of such a brain disorder. Until recently, the medical field didn't even realize it was a unique and separate illness - and in the early stages, the confusion, anger, loss of memory, petty thievery & slyness, and helplessness were written off as "emotional problems", particularly if the person was fairly young, say in his or her 50s.

Tourette's syndrome is another brain disorder that causes bizarre behaviors, which include facial ticks and grimaces, and the sudden spewing of words or phrases, which in some people can be pretty offensive.

And there are others, more than I have room for here.

Depression involves three types of symptoms:

• Psychological: self-criticism, anhedonia (lack of interest or joy), feelings of worthlessness, or excessive or inappropriate guilt, distractibility, oversensitivity to criticism, lack of purpose, procrastination, reliance on routine;
• Biological: fatigue, appetite & weight changes, insomnia or hypersomnia, psychomotor retardation (slowed movements, reaction time); and
• Social: avoidance, passivity, hostility or indifference to others, complaining, asking for help or advice (indecisiveness), loneliness. Some depressive people exhibit symptoms primarily of the psychological type, requiring treatments that target this area. For example, if anhedonia is a pervasive symptom, the person could benefit from supports around daily planning and activities designed to keep them involved in life. Or, self-esteem work could reduce the constant self-criticism.

If the person exhibits social skills deficits, then treatments should center around skills acquisition.

I, on the other hand, tend to be more biologically-based, with mind/body symptoms (psychosomatic) - or what used to be called "a hypochondriac". This one's easy to describe because the symptoms are so much more obvious: psychomotor retardation, fibromyalgia (pain, numbness & lack of strength in my right hand through shoulder, and both hips), constant fatigue, headaches, and scary weight gains caused by agitated "grazing" - searching for food, particularly carbohydrates such as pasta and breads.

We'll talk more about these symptoms and treatments in future issues.

• MENTAL FUNCTION
  
  Depression
  
  
• Poverty of ideas with slowed thinking
  
• Distractibility
  
• Self-doubt, defeatism, pessimism
  
• Oversensitivity to criticism
  
• Despair at criticism, opposition or frustration
  
• Somberness, apathy, boredom
  
• Avoidance, timidness, loneliness, fear of strangers
  
• Fear
  
• Stinginess, envy, insecurity
  
  
  Mania
  
  
• Flight of ideas including rhyming & punning, rapid thinking
  
• Distractibility
  
• Overconfidence, competitiveness, optimism
  
• Addiction to praise & flattery
  
• Intolerance of criticism, opposition or frustration
  
• Cheerfulness, excitement, eagerness
  
• Ambition, no sense of limits, sociability, loving crowds
  
• Daring, blindness to danger
  
• Generosity, good will, jealousy
  
  
  DELUSIONAL THINKING
  
  Depression
  
  
• Ugliness, sin, guilt & worthlessness
  
• Failure & incompetence, poverty, physical & mental defects
  
• Being unloved, unwanted, rejected; negative grandeur: belief that one is the worst of all mankind
  
• Hypochondriasis; expectation of imminent death
  
  
  Mania
  
  
• Attractiveness, nihilism, innocence & perfection of self / insignificance of others
  
• Achievements & ability, wealth or money to come, superhuman powers
  
• Being loved, desired, accepted; grandeur: belief of being a truly great person or the best of mankind
  
• Invulnerability
  
  
  WAYS OF RESPONDING TO PEOPLE
  
  Depression
  
  
• Avoidance of people, shyness, trying to escape notice, aloofness, ignoring people
  
• Submissiveness, passivity, assuming blame for everything, asking advice, complaints
  
• Indifference or hostility, self-deprecation, reduced communications
  
• Diminished sexual interest and activity
  
  
  Mania
  
  
• Gregariousness, hospitality, friendliness, ostentation, familiarity, charming & persuading people
  
• Dominance, aggressiveness, manipulation, deceit, vengefulness, threatening, shifting blame to others, lawsuits, volunteering unsolicited advice, flattery, criticism, ridicule, teasing
  
• Love, hostility, hatred, boasting, increased communication (although not necessarily very effective at it)
  
• [color:"red"]Increased sexual interest and activity, including extramarital affairs the person wouldn't ordinarily have.[/color]
  
  
  ACTIONS & BEHAVIORS
  
  Depression
  
  
• Lack of purpose, will; indecision; procrastination
  
• Cautiousness, conformity and obedience; reliance on routine; avoidance of change; inhibition
  
• Slow, laconic speech; quiet voice
  
• Disinterest in/abandonment of formerly enjoyed interests/activities
  
• Reduction and slowing of mental and physical activity
  
• Crying, suicide attempts, homicide
  
  
  Mania
  
  
• Willfulness, impulsivity; hasty actions
  
• Carelessness, risk-taking; nonconformity, disobedience, mischievousness, practical jokes and illegal acts; creativity and resourcefulness; pursuit of novelty; lack of inhibition
  
• Rapid/pressure of speech, jokes, witty remarks, punning; loud voice
  
• Frequent change of activity and interests, taking on too much
  
• Hyperactivity, quickness
  
• Laughing, suicide attempts, homicide
  
  
  PHYSICAL STATE & APPEARANCE
  
  Depression
  
  
• Fatigue, lethargy & malaise
  
• Digestive disorders, headache, chest pains
  
• Feel & look unattractive, aged, haggard & ill
  
• May be negligent in dress
  
• Lack of expression, or look of suffering
  
  
  Mania
  
  
• Energy, restlessness & physical well-being
  
• Reduced awareness of hunger, pain, fatigue
  
• Feel & look attractive, youthful, vigorous, glowing
  
• Fashionable, conspicuous dress
  
• Intense expressiveness
  
  
  Some symptoms common to both depression and mania include:
  
  
• having thoughts & behavior dominated by one's mood, so the person is unable to respond appropriately to outside stimuli or events,
  a lack of moderation in thoughts and behaviors (both become quite extreme),
  
• bizarre behavior such as non- stop, frenetic movements,
  
• exaggerated and labile (rapidly changing) moods,
  
• reduced concentration and poor memory,
  
• irritability, faultfinding, hostility,
  
• jealousy, paranoia, rage, violence, destructiveness,
  
• increased or decreased appetite,
  
• alcoholism or substance abuse,
  
• insomnia, egocentrism, and religiosity,
  
• job loss, bankruptcy & marital problems,
  
• compulsive gambling
  
• automobile accidents
  
  
  Symptoms common to the extreme stages of depression and mania include:
  
  
• hallucinations & delusions,
  
• disorientation & confusion,
  
• violence against self & others,
  
• catatonia
  
• suicide (primarily in depression)

Sources:
The Key to Genius - Manic Depression and the Creative Life, by D. Jablow Hershman & Julian Lieb, M.D. (including chart adaptation, page 3)
Essential Psychopathology and Its Treatment, 2nd Edition; Jerrold S. Maxmen, M.D. and Nicholas G. Ward, M.D., W.W. Norton & Company, New York, 1995.



[color:"blue"]Pretty frightening, huh? Just thought this might help everyone here to understand the nature of the beast called, Bipolar Disorder...Hope this helps somebody...[/color]

Mrs. Wondering

Dear Mrs Wondering,

No disrespect to your post, but I don't believe the lies of the mental health system.
The unfortunate thing is Mental Health Dr's get rich off of people such as SC and "brainwash" them to believe they will have the disorder for the rest of thier lives, and may even die of it, and if they don't take the pills they will get worse.
It's like "a curse, a lie" that they believe to their own detriment.
No pill can heal the soul & spirit only God can. The pills only turn these people into walking zombie's I have visited a many people in the Mental Hospitals, having had friends that are "mentally (of the soul) ill". Did you know that a many of the pills they are given make them "intoxicated" zombies therefore helping create more delusion. Did you know that most Anti Dep make people more depressed. They also become delusional when they go on drinking, & drugging binges (everyone does). Do you see how adulterous people become in their waywardness, it's no different (it's a matter of the soul), they become foggy/delusional believing thier lie. Will a pill help them? No brain chemical off balance makes people go out on drinking binges, and adulterous binges, the other neg characteristics just come along with it. Sc mentioned in a previous post that she has fallen off the wagon. I only came to help her see the way of getting back on, Gods way.
Being that Sc mentioned in her post about God, she has some awareness of God.

When BPD patients get coddled in thier sin/neg behaviors they become worse. Did you notice she came here looking for sympathy of her ways and didn't get it, for the most part, so she left. She has also believed the "it's her parents fault" lie that she has been taught in mental health clinics "therefore making her believe the generational curse lie" that she thinks she will be like that because her parents were and what they did to her.
"The blame game."

Many a BPD patients are "spoiled" rotten, and the mental health assoc has helped them get that way, they are specifically taught the "only think of yourself" doctorine, thats why most of thier families leave them or they leave thier families. They become some of the most "selfish" paople I have ever met. Give them another pill? Coddle them. I don't think so. I don't coddle my children when they are misbehaving, and neither does God. Give them God, Jesus, His Word and some good behavioral therapy/discipline, and they might come around in thier right mind, if they "want" to. For those are the one that put thier families through H*** because they choose to believe "the lie".
Will a pill help that?

I am a strong believer in the herbs God has created, because everything God has created is good. I have seen people healed with herbs, vitamins, amino acids etc... but even herbs cannot heal/restore the soul.



Love, Lady

Dear Ladysheep...

I am going to address your post, I just simply don't have time today...I will tell you that I believe your post to be rife with misinformation regarding mental illness, ESPECIALLY BPD, and I will address that.

Could you please tell me if you have ever LIVED with someone that has Bipolar Disorder? That IS important information...

Mrs. Wondering