You are very right about living on crumbs from the WS. My H had the personality of a mop last night. First, he came home and apologized for SF the night before. I told him that we are married and no apology was needed. He said that he used me for sex and that wasn't right. I told him that I didn't feel used because I enjoy sex with him. I did tell him that I had more of a problem with how he acted afterward. He just kind of grunted in response.

I just kept busy last night and did some projects that I had been putting off. I also acted cheerful and friendly. I avoided LBs and ILYs as well as affectionate touches. I did need to talk with him about maintaining NC. Our DD and DS have a choir concert tonight and the OW will be there. I approached my WH cautiously but directly when we were alone. I asked him if he would avoid all contact with her at the concert and otherwise. As I expected, he didn't respond the way I hoped. He said that it doesn't matter because he will probably just leave me. I decided to challenge that statement with a question. "Why would you leave?" He said that he would leave because he doesn't want to live like this and it won't change. I asked him if he was referring to me or him. He said both.

He also said that he doesn't care. I told him that I do care and he will eventually if he can maintain NC and let himself heal.

I ended up going to bed early and letting him just sit and watch the game by himself. I tried to maintain the confident and positive outlook with him. I know that these responses I get on this board really helps with that.

Loni

My WS believes he is in love with the OW. He doesn't think that the feelings will go away despite NC.

" I can't live without him Bob. Thats how it is and It will nevr change. face it."

Squid told me that.

She sent me a TXT message this morning saying " I am yours forever...love Squid XX"

Its fog. Plan A your buns off a distract your taker.

All blessings

Thanks Bob.

I am studying everything I can get my hands on to handle this sitch well. Your toolkit is a godsend.

I can keep this up for awhile longer but I can see how it will wear thin if he starts the A again. I wish that he would read some of these posts like the one you just sent me.

Loni

Loni

I got through it by treating like a work project. Obeying rules whether or not the emotinal feedback I got was satisfying. Distracted my taker my doing things with the kids, my friends - all kids of stuff.

Expecting NOTHING because a WS or a new FWS CANNOT give you what you want in most cases.

NOT ABLE to.

Recognise that for a while.
And plan A. Learn POJA. Its all good. Your WH might not be very responsbve now but I learned WS see with their peripheral vision and cumulatively Plan A goodness has an effect. Really.

All blessings

It is exactly like a "project", Bob. I have to gear myself up for the evening every day so my mind set is right.

Last night I went to the choir concert with the kids. She was there like I knew she would be since her son is in the choir also. My H didn't go despite being asked by our DD. Afterward, I returned with the two kids that were in choir. The oldest stayed home. My H told me to quit being so cheerful since I was humming a song that the kids and I were enjoying on the radio on the way home. I just smiled at him and said that I was enjoying my cheerfulness and walked away. My H then asked if the OW was there and I answered. Then he asked if her XH was there and I told him that he was. (I was thinking about what difference that made). He went on to ask if I had spoken with her and I replied that I had no reason to talk with her. He said that I have a lot of hate for her. I responded with a smile and calmly said that I have alot of reasons to not go there with him and that this isn't about hate. Then I just finished my jobs in another room. He didn't say anything for the rest of the evening except to tell me that he would be working early the next day.

At bedtime, I gave him a quick peck on the lips and rolled over to go to sleep.

Whew....another day and plan A in full effect.

Question??? In Harley's book after affair recovery, SRY the name just skipped right out of my head, he says to tell you WH that you love him. Should I do this but just say it like I choose to love you, or I still love you, or someway that doesn't ask for a response?

I do still love him somewhat. I am sure that I love him much less than I used to and I fully understand that I am choosing to give love regardless of having it returned. I also wanted to say that I love the idea of thinking about him like an alien in my H's body. That helps me deal with him without getting as emotional about it.

Loni

Loni

I dunno Loni. Haven't tread SAA for ages.

In my case Squid recoiled at my affection and 'ILY' was cheapened beyond belief as she was using it with OM.

I stopped "ILY" and showed it instead.

Th ebiggest problem with most BS using ILY and affection is they GIVE it because they want it back and their get heart broken if time goes by without WS returning ILY and affection.

If you can give it and expect NOTHNG back, try it.

Sorry I am newer here and by no means am I any expert. I am still working through how to improve and resolve my own situation. But for whatever it's worth, I found it helps me to "be a buddha". Just let the crazy comments and criticism flow off me. (Of course that's easier said than done.) Buddha had said, if you give a gift (the criticism in this case) and the person you are giving it to does not accept the gift, then who owns the gift? The giver. If they give cruelty and hatred, let them keep it.

Tardis,

Thanks for the visual. I like it.

What is the general thinking on high tech snooping? My H has had a fit about it before with the phone taps and the recorder in the car. If I do it and he finds it, wouldn't that be a huge LB?

I think of it as peace of mind. If he's telling the truth than I know for sure and if he isn't then I know what I am dealing with.

I don't want to mess this up at this point. I really need some clear thinking.

Plan A is in full effect and last nights weather forecast turned out to be Patchy fog then partly sunny...

He was in a different kind of mood yesterday. At first I couldn't read him and he was actually sounding like he wanted to be combative.

It started with him accusing me of not leaving the OW alone.
I asked him how was I messing with her and he said that he knows that I have been online trying to find out her screen name and then he told me to leave her alone. I said that I am staying away from her but I like to be informed so that I don't have any more unpleasant surprises, like contact between them. He told me that I am going to drive him away with how I am acting. I challenged him again and he just said that my " stunt" from 4 weeks ago was one way.

I probably should have just walked away but I didn't . Instead I told him that the OD wasn't a stunt or an attempt to control anything. I also told him that I am taking care of me and that I am doing everything I can so that I don't reach that point ever again. He just told me that the OD was "stupid". I agreed that it was stupid but I am not and I will be OK with me.

Then he said something about how I haven't been taking care of myself as well as I should because I "looked like sh7t". Ouch. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I looked at him and told him "thanks" and left the room. He followed me and said that he was sorry for saying that and that I just didn't look so great today. Mind you that I wasn't feeling well and had just gotten over a huge headache so I was wearing PJs and no makeup. He also brought up that I wasn't losing wt anymore. I told him thanks for noticing only the bad. I asked him if he noticed how I looked yesterday when I was dressed up and wearing makeup and my hair was perfect. He didn't answer.

He reitterated that I wasn't taking very good care of myself. I replied that not only was I taking care of me but I had better because he had not taken care of me in a long time. He seemed surprised and asked what I meant. I asked him if he was protecting me from anger or judgements. He acknowledged that he wasn't. He then said that he would have to do better with that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> (recognize the "rule of protection"?) I asked if he was making sure that I had what I needed in our marriage and he said that he hadn't been (rule of care). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So I just smiled at him and said that I am taking care of me to the best of my ability and that I am and will be fine.

That was pretty much it for the evening. What do you all think? Clear skies with patches of fog?

One last thing...I am doing very well with keeping the physical affection out of the picture. I am friendly and upbeat. Last night at bedtime, I kissed him goodnight and when I rolled over, I said that I still have love in my heart for him. Before he could respond, I said "sweet dreams" and went to sleep. No expectations and no prompting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

By the way, today when he gets home, I will be looking HOT!!!

One more day in the right direction...
Loni <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Last night I did look really good. Hair, makeup, clothes. I didn't expect compliments from him so I wasn't disappointed when he didn't seem to notice. I knew that I looked good and that's what I needed. He did apologize for saying what he did again. I think that the fog just might be getting a little thinner.

I didn't do so well with plan A last night, though. I think that I am coming down with something and I just don't have a lot of reserve for any cr5p. I told him that I was just very tired and very stressed and not to pay too much attention to my mood. Anyway, the evening began to go the wrong way but ended alright.

Trying to stay strong. It would be nice if I could have a little break from the plan. Maybe a short vacation to a spa or even a little weekend by myself with a good book and a bit of pampering. Today, I will do the book with a really looooong bath. I will lock the door to the bathroom and turn on the stereo and light the candles. I don't plan on leaving the tub until the water heater has been emptied. Plan A is about taking care of myself as well as dealing with the WH. Let me finish my shift here at the hospital and Project Pamper is on. he he he. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

By the way, my H kissed me goodbye this morning and then gave me a wonderful hug as well. Ahhh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Loni

Hey y'all,

I just wanted to give everyone on this forum a huge <thumbs up>. You are all amazing individuals who recognize the imprortance of marriage and family.

Lots of hugs
Loni <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't want to get hopeful but I think my H is beginning to turn the corner. His attitude has changed from the hostile, hateful meanness to quiet, sometimes even friendly. Plan A continues full force. I am meeting ENs to the best of my ability while maintaining a distance (AKA mystery). I let him be the initiator of physical affection while I initiate fun and good attitude.

It is soooo much easier to be positive when his attitude is not angry. I feel it's too early to relax. My instinct is to step up Plan A to an even higher level. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes, I actually have to hold myself back from touching him. At night, I feel him lying close to me and I want to reach over and just touch him. I tell myself that the moment will pass and to just stick to the plan. I have noticed that he has been lying closer to me and actually snuggling up to me when he comes to bed. I snuggle closer to him in response but I am so proud of myself for not trying for more.

You know what is the best reward? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It feels great to have him come to me. I don't feel needy. I don't feel rejected. What a wonderful feeling. It is almost like the old days (before A).

Loni

Good morning,

H was quiet for the most part last night. I think he is coming down with a cold or something. He started to sound a little sarcastic at bedtime and I just said "hey", like I just drew attention to how he was sounding. He quit the attitude almost immediately. Whew... I was afraid that he was reverting back to Fogman.

I am continueing on with the plan and so far so good. Thank you so much for the excellent advice. I am following it to the letter.

Loni

Hi Loni,

Sounds like you are doing great with your Plan A. It sounds like one of you H's top EN is Pysical Attractiveness so I would continue to do your best at looking your best.

Let him wonder why you are keeping better care of yourself. If you combine this with not being as needy or clingly, I bet you will start to see some results.

Right now he know you will be there for him no matter what. Give him a little to think about. It might be worth a try to see how he reacts.

Keep it up.

Hi all,

Halloween was last night and it would have been completely pleasant if not for the OW.

Her kids went trick-or-treating in my neighborhood with my son and another friend. They did this last year and it was fine. This year, despite pouring rain, she had to walk with them. These boys are 11 and 13 and were with a bunch of others including 2 adults. It's not like they needed a chaperone.

I wasn't aware that she was there until I returned from an errand and my 17 yr old told me. He didn't get to say much more than "I kept an eye on the OW for you" because his dad came in the room.

I didn't freak. I just went upstairs and chilled out for a minute. I didn't trust my H to tell me if she came up to the door or not and if he had contact.

While I was upstairs, he came up and asked what was wrong. I asked him if she (OW) had been there while I was gone. He looked surprised and said that he hadn't seen her at all. I told him what our DS had said and he yelled for our son to ask him.

It should have all been over with at that point. But not for my H. He chastised our son for telling me. Then he became belligerent with me and kept asking me if she should be able to walk with her kids for halloween? Finally, because he wouldn't let it drop, I told him that was fine but it isn't good in her former boyfriends neighborhood. He looked up the stairs at me and said "former?". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I was livid at that comment and threw a comb at him. He said that if it had been a knife, he would be dead. I just told him be thankful it wasn't a knife. I went in the other room to cool down. I don't know what he did. Frankly, I could have cared less at that point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

It seems that meantime, our 13 yr old DS told him that he thought the a was a bad mistake. WH told our DS that the mistake he made was long before that. Our son was very upset and felt that his dad thought of him and his sibs as part of that mistake. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Later that night, I told my H that the youngest was upset and why. I didn't accuse him or make demands, just told him what our son had told me. H angrily told me that he didn't want to talk about it and the conversation was over. I told him that as a fellow adult and parent, that I am also in charge of deciding when a conversation is over. I then asked him why he was angry with me. He sarcastically said he wasn't. Fine, whatever, I said goodnight and went to bed.

When he came to bed, he didn't kiss me goodnight and I didn't offer him one either. I was still really mad at him and his careless, thoughtless and plain mean comments. Before I fell asleep, I told him that I don't regret marrying him and that I'm sorry he regrets marrying me. I also told him that the kids don't need to hear that because it upsets them to think that they were mistakes. He got up and went to talk to our youngest. A little while later, he returned. I asked him if DS was OK. He said that he was fine. I said goodnight and went to sleep.

This morning, He kissed me goodbye and apologized for telling me to kiss his d78k. I never heard him say it and told him so. He said that he never should have said it and I said I accept the apology and have a good day. He kissed me again and went to work.

The fog comes and goes. When will he get over this need to protect the OW? Will he ever? It makes me so angry that he is more concerned with her reputation and life than with mine. I can't go anywhere near her neighborhood without being accused of bothering her or stalking, yet she can walk around mine and she is all good. I can lose all kinds of relationships, e.g. my SIL, but she should be able to hang out with whoever she wants. Again E.G. my SIL.

Still doing plan A. I guess good days will come and go along with the bad ones.

Loni

Loni I can really sympathize with you.

My WW was so concerned about me hurting OM that it made me sick, so I feel what you are feeling.

I know there are days where you just want to throw in the towel and begin a new life, but if you do that without giving it you full effort, you will never know if thing may have eventually worked out.

It is so hard to detach lovingly, but that is what is required, especailly in the difficult moments. If we let our emotions dictate our actions, we become like the WS.

You can't think with your emotions. It is probably the hardest thing to do throughout Plan A, but it is critical that we don't let our emotions control our actions.

BTW, sounds like you did a terrific job at raising your 17 year old son. Sounds like he has plenty of character and integrity. You should be proud, I know I would be.

Thanks HTW. My kids are great.

I am doing OK. H still acts put out by the spotlight being on the OW and the A. I really don't care if he's put out by it right now. I didn't do anything wrong and I'm not going to walk around with my tail between my legs for consequences that both of them earned. They made the decision to have the A. They will just have to deal with the uncomfortable fallout they recieve.

Besides, I really think that the more uncomfortable they are with the fallout from the affair, the more resistant they will be to going back into it. Also, it's nice for them to see that the kids will not be ok with the idea of them being together. Kind of deflates the fantasy balloon.

Hang in there
Loni

I went to MC last night and he doesn't want to work with my H any longer because my H sits like a rock and doesn't open up or share with him. This frustrates the heck out of me. My H needs to be hearing how the A is wrong and how a marriage can be repaired. I don't want to be the sole source of reason with my H.

What do I do now besides Plan A? The MC likes the plan that I am following and agrees with the implementation of Plan B if the affair starts up again.

The MC thinks that my H doesn't want to reconnect and is still idealizing the A. I talked with him about NC and he agrees to it in concept but doesn't think it's possible in our small town. My feeling about it is that my H is to avoid situations in which the OW will be present. If he sees her to walk to other way. If he does run into her and can't avoid her, then to say "Hi" and walk away.

My first instinct and desire is to move away but my H absolutely refuses. Not to mention that all 3 teenagers would feel like their world has just collapsed.

I think I am ready to stop seeing this MC and save the money and time. I wish I could afford to talk with SH. My H would be really angry about the money spent on that.

I'm feeling a little confused today.
Loni

<bump>

Loni

Hang in there as your signature states. I think your husband is just ticked about the exposure and his withdrawal. Try to talk to SH if possible. It may be a LB at 1st but if it saves the marraige he will appreciate it. If not, what have you lost.

Go for it.