Hi ya, Ap! Excellent post. I disagree with one point..I doubt that Low Orbit has any sexy or good memories of his A. I know mine are sickening and filled with disdain for my actions.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I'd rather have a response but I'll take the shopping...(as I bat my eyelashes) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Hey FF, how you feelin darl' ?
I was tellin' Squid about you earlier and she said we should come see you and give you a break. She meant it too. Special girl that Squid.

Holding onto hatred of the OP simply lets them occupy a space in your mind that you could use for something better.

They're not the issue anyway. They're just people, wanting what every human on the planet wants - to be happy, to not feel pain. They've made a mess of it, certainly; blundering over other people, stealing, hurting. But ultimately they're just people on the same journey as every other human.

Your WS, too, was just a person trying to be happy and making a mess of it.

Anger is inevitable for a time, but at some point we have to figure out a way to let it go, if we want to take full possession of our own life. If we hold onto hatred and feed it, perhaps it's because we're scared to face the fact that the OP is just as valuable a being to our God as we are.

TA

Hi back to ya, bob! Tell Squid I would love to meet the both of you! Tell her I have heard wonderful things about her too from some very special person in her life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

TA

Thanks for the guidance. Really.

To me there is nothing better than my self respect. Next to my salvation it is my best asset.

I still want to kill OM.

I still won't unless he forces me to.

You wanna take a guess at how many times I've said that very same thing???

You were right! He is STILL ignoring me. Bet you have a nice wardrobe though, eh froz? hee hee

TA,

“They're just people, wanting what every human on the planet wants - to be happy, to not feel pain. They've made a mess of it, certainly; blundering over other people, stealing, hurting. But ultimately they're just people on the same journey as every other human.”

Hmmm...

OK, I agree in general.

But (there’s always a but.)

What do you say about an OM who is an OM in everything he does and is an OM for his entire life?

An OM who is the veritable definition of the title Player. One who almost always has several A's active simultaneously.

An OM who knows what he is doing at all times and stalks troubled and vulnerable women no different than a hunter stalks, bags and skins his prey.

An OM who’s current M was an A during his previous M.

An OM who literally and figuratively looks down on trust and fidelity. An OM who despises faithful and committed husbands.

An OM who uses religion in general and his church in particular as a cover for his OMness.

An OM right out of the worst infidelity story you can imagine.

An OM who is a poster boy for The People of the Lie.


FOO excuses maybe?

With prayers,

I will admit that BSs also get criticized here for non-MB behavior. Or for taking crap from WSs/OPs. Sure it happens. A more appropriate response from me is to focus on this thread and not scathe the entire community. I did not appreciate the joke that began this thread. I voiced that opinion. I spent the remainder of the afternoon tormented, in utter rage, by a vision of something Frozen described to me to 'open my eyes'... so by speaking up, I have learned something.



And by me saying what I really feel, I can get opinions and guidance on behaviors and beliefs I need to correct. That has happened to me a number of times here. And that is one of the things I am learning to do. Say what is truly on my mind. Only then can the truth be addressed.


I told froz what I thought the ultimate betrayal was. Thanks for the book idea. Sorry you don't get any clothes. I don't mean to ignore you. Have a good night.

Darn..no shopping. Thanks for the response, Pat. Glad we both got something out of being here.

Aphelion, great post trying to show all sides and possibilities. It is unfortunate that too often we make generalizations about a group of people and may very well offend some of those people in that group that may have changed.

Never in my life did I think this post would become one of the more active posts on this site for a while. Obviously touched some nerves from those on both sides.

We are a community of people who have been brought together by unfortunate circumstances. We all share one thing whether we are BS, WS or even an OP. We share an experience that has as it's only redeeming quality to possibility to experience a more fulfilling relationship with our spouses. Unfortanately for many of us, it took an A to wake us up to how things should be.

I understand that my W is an OP to the OMW. I have talked to OMW and feel fortunate that she does not harbor the resentment and hate for my W that I do for her WH. However, if my FWW continued to show inappropriate behavior for a number of years even though she was supposedly reconciled with me, I would harbor a lot more resentment to her than if she was as she is today, a truly repentant FWW who will carry the shame and guilt of her poor choices for the rest of her life.

As a Christian, I am also challenged by the conflicts presented between my true feelings towards OM and what Jesus has told us how we should try to feel towards those who have wronged us. There are many conflicts between interpretations of the Old Testament vs. New Testament especially if you believe that God and Good never change over time. I am not an expert at anything.

I am working hard at rebuilding my R with my W and she is doing the same. We have enjoyed the best times together that we ever had during our M. But just like Bob (who is as reasonable of a person as we have here) there are many times when I would like to take out all of my frustration on the OP. That doesn't make me bad or insensitive, just human. This is especially true when the OP in our situation probably fits Aphelion's description to a T. He was a predator that took advantage of my FWW's vunerability at that time. His actions do not justify my FWW's poor choices, but his unwillingness to close the door completely after he was supposed to be recommitted to his own W is a slap in the face to all the couples here who are tried with every thing they have to rebuild their lives and R.

Aphelion

I hear your pain. On d-day I acquired a whole platoon of OPs to hate, ranging from sad deluded people, through determined chancers, to a real player who presented hersalf in public as a saint. I could imagine - oh, so clearly - my face smashing into the face of that last woman, my nails gouging her flesh.

But do you know what I came to realise? The fake saint was the saddest of all, because she had built a whole life scrabbling little bits of triumph, and flashes of artificial passion, and flares of pleasure at snatching something that was somebody else's - and she called that happiness. She had no sense of 'real' happiness, and what she worked so hard to get for herself was really a kind of misery, by the standards of a genuinely happy person.

Can you imagine being trapped in that state? Each time she sees a contented person, I'm sure she has a vague awareness that they have something she can't get hold of - and unless she confronts the truth of herself, she has no chance of getting it. It's a living h*ll, but she thinks it's a heaven.

For a while, in the pain of discovery, the BS hurts so much that it seems the OP has 'won'. But the BS 'loses' only if they fail to take back their right to honest happiness.

Whoever said 'the best revenge is living well' was exactly right.

TA

So Patriot, if it's not too personal, what do you think is the ultimate betrayal?

Hey Pat.

I just reread this you wrote :

Your resentment, undealt with, is probably the devil's playground, yes?

Why is the only way to 'deal with' resentment to squish it meekly and let the transgressor off the hook ? I see 'turning the other cheek' used a whole lot as an excuse for CA or worse, cowardice in life.

I'd lose my resentment if I crippled OM. I know I would. I could shake his hand afterwards " no hard feelings". I just *know*. I fear that my mercy towards OM is weakness or CA or cowardice you see. And I couldn't like my reflection if it was. Time is helping, as is the fact he got his GF to beg me not to destroy his reputation or damage him.

I just don;t see that it is 'manly' to let that scum off the hook.

so you don't believe in the "turn the other cheek" lifestyle Jesus taught?

come on Bob, you did not conflict avoid nor were you a coward. you fought for your marriage. you did what had to be done, things that were VERY hard to do. don't you remember?? and you did it with love in your heart, not hatred. and you were extremely successful, that is why your story is referred to so much.

so trying to say you are not letting go of resentment because you do not want to be a CA or be a coward, i think is your attempt to justify your desire to hold on to your resentment towards OM. which is certainly your choice. but that does not make you "manly", not in my eyes and certainly not in God's.

i'm not meaning to 2x4 ya, ok, well maybe that is exactly what i am trying to do. but only because i care about you.

Bob:

You and I agree on this one. I wouldn't even have to cripple him permanently, just put him through some temporary pain. Is this the devil's playground?? I think not, just a normal human reaction.

The point that most seem to miss that have taken the other side is that neither you or I am looking to seek out OM and take out our revenge. But if put in a position again that was inappropriate, we both would have no problem protecting our established boundaries and if crossed again...the OM would be very sorry. JMHO.

Hey guys, I smell a business opportunity.

Avenging Angels Inc (Ltd, for Bob)

Motto: “Let us deal with your resentment.” Or perhaps: "We'll turn the other cheek."

We could handle re-education scenarios (i.e. revenge) for people who are too busy “moving on”.

I bet plenty of BS would work for free, or maybe just expenses.


Wait, maybe the mob already has this market cornered.

Of course I am not Patriot, but I can tell you from experience that it IS the devil's playground.

Acting on feelings of vengeance probably won't make you feel better like you think it would.

I held my rage in for almost three years against the man who molested my daughter. It seethed silently below the surface. I dreamed of things I could do to exact my own justice, since the court system hadn't done that for me.

I was told by others that he would have to answer to God. Maybe that was true, but it wasn't good enough for me because I wouldn't necessarily be there to witness it.

I eventually snapped, after almost three years of holding it in, and I did something to him (more like to his truck). I doubt he knew it was me. What kind of crazy person would wait three years to do something...ha!

It didn't make me feel any better. I thought it would feel so great, but it didn't. It made me feel low. It made me feel weak. It wasn't even really an outlet for my feelings. It was just destructive. Giving in by acting on the desire for revenge is destructive.

Besides, he had his truck fixed and was washing it in his driveway when I drove by (incognito) two days later.

Revenge?

Is there really anything that can give back to my daughter or myself what he took from us???

Is there really anything that you could do to OM that would be enough? Is beating the crap out of him going to give back to you what he took?

Also, do you not hold Squid equally as responsible for her decisions as OM? In the midst of the wonderful job you did in your plan A, maybe you weren't allowing yourself to feel anger towards Squid. Do you think maybe it's safer to blame OM entirely and to be angry with him?

(((Bob)))

I know what it feels like to have that kind of rage eating at you.

Very often, it is normal human reactions that the devil is banking on, and the method he uses to get to you.