My divorce date has not changed. Since about three weeks ago when I found out where WH works by seeing him at the garage, he has been contacting me. At first I was very distant and dark. Then I got stupid and accepted his bs and talked to him. I figured I would find out what he wanted and where he stood. I (for no smart reason) thought that he might have somehow decided to make right by the kids and I. Well I was wrong (who would have guessed?) In short, he stands the same place he has for a long time. I owe him the world, he is sorry for hurting me but you know, stuff happens, get over it and stop ruining his life. Poor him he has nothing, blah blah blah, Mommy paid for him to get his car fixed, but he needs, he needs, he needs.

His big 'demand' is that I go to court, and put in a petition to revoke/terminate the protection order from OW. He wants to live with her, and I am in the way of that because I 'screwed with his head and made him get the protection order against her with me' It's all my fault. We have a joint protection order and he can't terminate it without me being a party to the petition. Darn... Life sucks eh? He said 'this should have never happened' I said 'your right' He said 'I mean we should have never got the protection order' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I said 'Oh, so you think I should have continued to put myself and our children in danger of your psycho OW for your benefit? I think you should have kept your sorry butt home in August of 2004.' Then he starts in with his 'Well how about we go back to the day I was born, maybe I should have never been born, maybe I should just die'

Basically, he hasn't changed. I told over a week ago that it was a mistake to allow him to contact me because he hasn't changed, and his presence in my life at this time is not healthy. He of course said that after I terminated the protection order he would leave me alone, to which I just hung up and went back to my dark cave.

Really, I am thankful to be getting a divorce from this man. I never thought I would say that but I literally feel sick when I see him. Partly because I have never been able to do a good long term plan B, and partly because of the horrid things he has done to the kids and I. My worry is that he will show up at court and I will have to defend myself and put up a fight for the kids and I. I really am not excited about that, but I know if the event occurs he has no ground to stand on. 14 days....

The second part of the thread title 'Who do I think I am?' is in reference to my behavior over the past week or two. I guess the saying if your ashamed of it, then it must not be ok holds true. I took the children to a community luncheon at the fire station, because I know and am friends with a lot of the volunteers there. Well a friend from high school was there…he is on the fire dept. He knows Adam and the situation (who doesn’t?). He got the kids t-shirts and hats from the fire house that said ‘Lil’ Fire Crew’. I knew he used to work on a lobster boat and I asked him if he still did. He said yes and then we talked about the possibility of him getting me lobster from the dock at dock price. We exchanged numbers, for that sole purpose. We talked about the 4-wheeler club and the progress that they are making on the trails, etc.

Two days later he called me and asked me where the public trails start for the 4-wheeler club. I told him that it was hard to explain but that I would meet him at X and show him. So I did… Well then he and I talked for awhile about where our lives have taken us since high school, and about other people that we have seen since high school. Then we went off on the 4-wheelers and I showed him around the trail system. I left after a few hours and he told me that he enjoyed spending time with me and he hopes we can go riding again soon. Well over the past two weeks we have spending a lot of time together. He is fully aware of my marital situation, but damn it WHO DO I THINK I AM?

Can you say...affair?

Married women do not have relationships like this until they are no longer married. You are just ending up like your husband.

One thing at a time!

In His arms.

Dani... sounds like he's trying to be a friend first, then maybe more. Seeing as how your D is just a couple weeks away, why not just cool it with this guy until the D is done, then strike up a new friendship with a clear conscience. I can't imagine this guy would object if he has any amount of decency.

I disagree with Mortarman (surprise, surprise) -- I don't feel you "are ending up just like your husband." You haven't even come close to stooping as low as he did.

Just cool it till the D is final, then get on with your life. You deserve to be happy.

As always, Dani, I am very concerned for your safety.

I think STBX is likely to get violent at your new news -- whether or not the D is final. He is not a rational person, and as he sees you moving beyond the role he has allotted for you -- weeping at the sidelines and begging for crumbs -- he is likely to snap. Although he has jeered at you to move on, he will not like seeing you do so. He will not like seeing another man move into his bed and into the role of potential father figure. (I know, I know -- I'm jumping the gun. But these things are inevitabilities that he hasn't faced, even theoretically.)

Expect more problems from him. Big problems. I truly hope I am wrong. I'm sorry you have been in contact with him so recently. Go very dark.

You will have to be very careful to make sure the waters of your past do not swamp the small liferaft of your future. Any new men in your future should not have to deal with Adam's threats and craziness.

(((Dani)))
I would agree to cool it for a while. I think it must've been a great ego boost to have someone give you the kind of attention you deserve. With the D so close....be careful. Even though you are ready for it and IMHO I think its the best thing for you and your children it will be a very emotional time for you. A.M.- had a good point too...be safe.

Don't jump into a new relationship yet. Give yourself some time. Make peace with yourself, forgive yourself for letting go of WH...I'm so proud of you...you've come such a long way. There is a wonderful future ahead.

GBH, I agree with you when you say she should cool it until the divorce is final. I too began a friendship with a woman when I first filed for divorce. And many on here chastised me (rightly so) for having that friendship.

The standard is this: would she have this friendship and be doing this if her husband was home and being her husband like he should be? If she wouldnt have this relationship then, the rules still apply now.

I agree she is not like her husband. But my statement was made because adultery is the same no matter how you get in it, or when you do it. It is all the same. I dont care if my wife fell in love with one guy, or just wanted an orgy with the football team. It is the same thing!

So, a married woman should not have male friends like this. Once she is unmarried, then I would say this is a GREAT thing for Dani!! And if this guy is a good guy, then he will be there.

But until then, she is still married and should compose herself as a married woman.

In His arms.

Also expect a big reaction from your in-laws. They've been out to lunch on this one. That might be a good argument for waiting another two weeks -- you don't want them to be freaking out that you didn't "wait" for Adam any more. No one can ask you to "wait" when you are legally divorced.

The way I read Dani's post, she's ashamed of this little flirtation. Dani, congrats on being aware of the thin ice and for getting off that lake. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Dobie

This thread has really got me to thinking. I know...dangerous thing. While I agree that technically engaging in this behavior is an extramarital relationship, are we just splitting hairs based upon the fact that the legal proceedings are not complete? After all, our WS's have deserted the M, began other R's and have for all practical purposes ended the M already. I understand about making statements and closing one book before opening another and that for some that may need to be what happens.
But at the same time, I know for a fact that my parents, both of whom are the most spiritual people I know, have been praying for God to send me a woman that is as full of the spirit as I am. Who am I to say when God will send that woman. While I believe it wont happen until my D is final, how can I dictate to God what the timing is going to be? I also think, that for myself, I cant enter another R without making sure that the M is finally over. Is that what this about also? Are we eternal optimists? I know that I have read several times on these boards about STBXWS suddenly coming to their senses at the last minute right before the D is final. So, is the hesitancy tied to that? Since it would make it more difficult for the miracle of recovery to occur? I even see people discussing the possibility of recovery after divorce. I guess what I am questioning here is the pigeonholing of the timing. Sorry for throwing these thoughts out here that dont seem to fit with MB principles, but they are things I sometimes wonder about.

IMHO, it's not about whether it's infidelity either. I'm more worried about Dani being more healed and ready before entering another relationship.

Dobie

Splitting hairs? No. God set the standard. He said that if yo uare married, then any relationship with another person as would be with your spouse is adultery. You see, we dont get to make the rules here. My wife said that while I was deployed to Bosnia, she had decided that the marriage was over and started up with the OM. Funny thing was, she never told anyone the marriage was over. But even if she had, the marriage isnt over until it is over. But she had decided it was over, so why not just go ahead and start on another relationship, right? Under these terms you outline here, then there really isnt a line that says you are married or not...just whatever one person wants to say it is. And my wife didnt commit adultery because she decided the marriage was over before she started up with the OM. You see? It doesnt work that way.

Try this sometime. Let's say you get paid every other Friday. Then go to your bank on Thursday and ask for your paycheck the day before. Of course, it hasnt been deposited yet but hey, its coming in a few hours and arent we just waiting on the paperwork? See what your bank thanks about that? My guess they will say that you should come back tomorrow when you get paid. Marriage isnt something grey...you are either married or you are not married.


No, they have not ended the marriage. The marriage is ended when it is ended. As a Christian, that is spelled out in the Bible how that marriage is ended (the law spells it out for the rest of humanity). Look, Jesus met the woman at the well. He asked her if she was married. She said yes and Jesus came back that in fact, he knew that she was married to 5 men. Why did He say that? Because although she may have gotten a divorce in the courthouse, God was not behind that process. Thus, since she never sought a divorce based on God's definition and in God's way, Jesus saw that she had not been divorced from any of the 5 men she had "married." God definitely views marriage as black and white and He defines when yo uare in it...and when and how you get out of it. For most, without your spouse cheating on you or you are married to a heathen that wants to leave...it means that you get to leave the marriage upon either your death or the death of your spouse.


Huh? God will send you someone else while you are still married? No, God wont do that. If someone is sent to you, it wont be God doing it. It will definitely be the work of Satan! God NEVER, EVER contradicts Himself. He has defined marriage and defined when the marriage can or will end. He has also defined adultery. Very clear cut. He isnt going to be a hypocrite and be behind contradicting His law.


You dont dictate to God...that is correct! but one thing you do know for sure...He will not send someone to be with you before your divorce is final...and that includes what you need to do in the church (as outlined in Scripture) to get divorced. If anyone comes along before that happens, you can be 100% sure God is not behind it.


Good deal here. And remember, even after divorce i nthe court, your marriage still isnt over. The Bible outlines when and how to end a marriage.


Mine did!


Thats okay...this is the place to come to and be heard and to also learn. But as a Christian, you really need to understand that marriage is a black and white thing. There are no grey areas. Anytime we try to make it grey, all we are doing is sinning against God. There is only ONE right way, and many wrong ones. Do not let the world cloud you of these truthes. The Bible is clear on what marriage is, what it is not, and when it ends. And who is allowed to end it. A WS, for example, does not get to decide if the marriage is over. Sure, human courts will allow it. but in God's eyes, they are still married UNLESS the BS has decided to divorce the WS. God has given divorce as an option to the BS only. Of course, God doesnt want the BS to divorce their WS...EVER! He justs allows it.

In His arms.

How about BOTH Dobie?? While I want her healed (we all do after the he!! here husband has put her thru), what is mroe important is being right with God.

In His arms.

Motarman,
I enjoyed your post on this subject. Can you direct tell me where I can start reading in the Bible on when the marriage is over?

If the WS is the one pursuing the D, what does the BS need to do to be divorced in the Biblical sense? Thanks for the food for thought.

Yeah, I was thinking of putting a thread up there about that. Let me see what I can do.

In His arms.

Hmmm...lets see. Dani's LB is on negative one zillion. BUT...she is married.

And I advise that with legalities and maybe custody being an issue..she should stay as far away from OM as possible. For more than a few weeks or risk herself being labeled...and if she's FOLLOWED BY WH AND CAUGHT...INTO BEING LABELED A WS BY THE COURTS. Get my drift? It is NOT past a WS to do that to the BS. I oughta know. My xh broke into my home and specifically got onto my itnernet, phone vmail, and rummaged thru my stuff...his goal? To find evidence I WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR...so he could use it against me in court. He found nothing as i was doin' nothing ok?

Attention is nice...but, wait and see. If this guy is a winner, he will wait around and wait until it is legal.

And I know you're thinking "this will make adam soooo jealous if he sees me w/this guy". No. Adam is a WS. He's nutso and fogged out.

You stay clean these next few weeks...and months. I would wait until 30 days past divorce to date. And then I'd be careful lest he try to say to courts "my xw is parading some guy around my kids".

Stay firm. Do NOT lift petition against ow.

He has not hit rock bottom...although at this point, I don't think I'd care if he did or not if he were my xwh.

Just leave adam alone. Stay far away.

I can always tell Dani when you've either talked to him or done something else...YOU DON'T POST.

I hope Dani doesn't think that. Her bloke is extremely dangerous. So is OW.

Dani, JustPeachy has a very, very good point. You don't even want the APPEARANCE of an A before the D, even if you've done nothing but made eye contact. STBX & OW are exactly the kind to prosecute.

Explain to the new guy your situation -- you say he already knows it -- that although you like him a lot and would like to spend time together, you have to appear totally above board, or take enormous legal risks -- plus involving him in the mess. You like him and wouldn't want to do that.

He should more than respect that.

Dani, if this new guy is the kind of person you think he is then he won't have any problem waiting to do anything until your divorce is final and you are healed enough to date. If he pressures you then it should be a gigantic red flag. I also believe that you are going to have problems with your STBXH and the ever-lovely OW. You need to keep that RO in place as long as possible.

These days, I'm not entirely sure what God thinks about divorce. I just read a piece about annulments and the Catholic church. Everybody knows what the Catholic church thinks about divorced people. As far as I know, the Catholic church believes in God's word from the Bible. You would think that would be in line with Mortarman's thinking. However, I read that the Catholic church grants annulments for something like 80% of the cases brought to it's "courts". Apparently, the priests can almost always find some reason why the marriage should be annulled even if it was a long term marriage with children. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Meanwhile, go with the bureaucratic definition of divorce. Wait for your piece of paper and then go what you will.

Think on these terms Dani...

Adam wants to get your kids around OW. If he sees you and some guy around the kids...the arguement that she should be around the kids is ok b/c you let some other guy around the kids...

Here is my dating rule...I have not let anybody around my son unless it is something...well a bit more than dating. I let my xbf see my son once...at a park..he rode a bike, xbf rollerbladed, and I ran. Now my psuedo could be now bf, former guy from college has met my son. He helped him put together a toy train set.

Object permanence is serious to kids from a divorced family. They've seen one parent zap in and out of their lives...like my xh. And they've seen one parent leave the family only to reappear w/some other wacky person with them and announcing "hey kids...here's somebody special. I know you'll love her...and YOU CAN CALL HER STEPMOM!" What a shock to a child! So I guess being that we are the somewhat normal and responsible parent, the mantle of good judgement must fall onto us...that means we can't just go with what feels good or makes us feel good about ourselves. We owe our children safety and security emotionally. That's priceless.

My son has not a clue that I dated either my xbf or the guy I am seeing right now. Why? He sees nothing that would suggest it. Not at all. That was another boundary I laid down clearly. And it only is after quite a bit of time they meet my son.

But as for this guy...tell him that if he really enjoys your company, that you ask him to wait on you. Tell him that a committment is something you stand by. That it is your character. That if he cares for you, he will wait until your committment has ended in a legal sense. If he does so, you know he's the right kinda guy. Ask if he would want a woman with that kinda strength?

If it's about instant gratification with this guy, then he's a loser anyway. If he's willing to play the waiting game then so be it. I don't think however there is anything wrong with say talking on phone though from time to time...

Again, this is a confusing place to be...the limbo part. It is. You aren't free...but you don't feel married.

I remember day we signed papers/agreement. He teared up actually. I had tears pouring down my face. And then he went home to my once dream home where he was shacking up with the ow...the waywardness of some just is so thick.

His tears lasted...well maybe five minutes.

Wait a minute, everyone. We don't know what the new guy's intentions are, and though they seem romantic, Dani can hardly assume this and tell him to "wait." He hasn't stated intentions or expressed that much of an interest, yet.

But she can tell him that she has to worry about appearances, given the wacko nature of her situation. She can say that she can't appear with ANY man in public till the D is final. For legal reasons.

Then she doesn't have to one-up his intentions and force his hand by making assumptions. (She: "I can't date anyone." He: "Who's asking you for a date? I just wanted a friend.")

Dead on, A.M. Martin.

Just two more weeks, Dani. Don't worry about what you think your husband can do to you in court. He hasnt exactly been a winner there lately, now has he?