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#1499929 10/13/05 07:37 PM
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On hurtinginoakla's thread you said:

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I am able to learn from you and others here in this respect. I know that I have "good" in me, but I also know that I am not "built like that"...I don't have it "in me" to do what you do...I know that I have alot of growing to do becasue of this, and this is why I still loiter here, when I sure as ****** am not trying to save any marriage with my name on the certificate...LOL.

we all grow in different ways at different paces.

I don't know that being willing to take back a WS is a virtue to be desired necessarily.

So alot of us here are gluttons for punishments! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What I do know is that, you may not have it "in you" to do what some of us do but...I can say that not many of us would have it in us to save the life of the OP on d-day. And there are many, as stated in the "MB event" thread, that aren't even close to that years after dday.

I don't know that I would have had it "in me" to do that. I wish I could say I did.

Anyway...don't really know where I am going with this, cept this had already been kinda percolating in my head when I read the OP hate thread.

I think yer allright...not that you need my approval or anything. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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On hurtinginoakla's thread you said:

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I am able to learn from you and others here in this respect. I know that I have "good" in me, but I also know that I am not "built like that"...I don't have it "in me" to do what you do...I know that I have alot of growing to do becasue of this, and this is why I still loiter here, when I sure as ****** am not trying to save any marriage with my name on the certificate...LOL.

we all grow in different ways at different paces.

I don't know that being willing to take back a WS is a virtue to be desired necessarily.

So alot of us here are gluttons for punishments! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What I do know is that, you may not have it "in you" to do what some of us do but...I can say that not many of us would have it in us to save the life of the OP on d-day. And there are many, as stated in the "MB event" thread, that aren't even close to that years after dday.

I don't know that I would have had it "in me" to do that. I wish I could say I did.

Anyway...don't really know where I am going with this, cept this had already been kinda percolating in my head when I read the OP hate thread.

I think yer allright...not that you need my approval or anything. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LOL.....that kind of made me chuckle Bramble...."yer allright"...I can picture you saying that...made my night.

Sour. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
lemonman #1499931 10/13/05 07:49 PM
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I was reading an article by Frank Pittman today, and he said that after an affair, 2 thirds of marriages end. So LM seems to be in the majority. Sometimes we get the idea that everyone tries to save their marriage. But lots of people just tell their spouse to hit the road.

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OH MY GOODNESS!!

I'm beginning to really LIKE YOU, Lemon...

I don't know if it matters to you or not but I thought I'd let you know....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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hah.

Every now and then, my Texan genetics surface. I'm a good Yankee girl with bad genes! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


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you may not have it "in you" to do what some of us do but...I can say that not many of us would have it in us to save the life of the OP on d-day. And there are many, as stated in the "MB event" thread, that aren't even close to that years after dday.

I don't know that I would have had it "in me" to do that. I wish I could say I did.

What I sometimes find so ironic, is that "in that moment"....I didn't really think about what was happening....years of training I guess. To me, yeah, he was the OM-who f-ing helped murder my life as I knew it...but he was also a chap with a Blood Pressure of 60/35 and about to die with my name going to be going on the death certificate....In reflection, it does admittedly still make my pulse fly when I think of the situation as a 3rd person "observer".....I think "No way" did that happen...but I honest to God feel that doing what I did would be infinitely easier to do, then doing a PLan A (for 6 months- with an unrepentant actively cheating spouse)and then doing a Plan B (for up to 2 years as is sometimes advised)...all in the name of "marriage commitment" and keeping my "vows". It is all in one's POV I guess. I know I am rather sarcastic at times when talking about the "program" or the "Harley's", but what they do and the success they have with their program is UNDENIABLE...I know that.....perhaps it is just "jealousy" that I never wanted to do the program, and honestly, if given another chance, knowing everything I know now, I still would not....Just being honest with you all.

I am lucky in a way, because I no longer have a "need" to hate the OM.....yeah, I think he is a scum sucking low down heathen....but he is also someone's father, someone's son, someone's ex-husband...for all that he did wrong in this life, he has done some good..because he left a wife with children that many men would die to have. That OM is the loser in life..and my WXW can join him...they are a match made in "he$$)....Those two are the defitinion of "be careful what you ask for, you may just get it". My WXW left this marriage a much wealthier woman than when she came in, but that was "blood money"...I am young, I can make back that money a thousand times over....she will never be able to repay what she "stole" from this life....it is this reality that lets me sleep at night, and not hate the OM or WXW......funny, but true.

I am not sure where I was going with this anyway...just spit it out.

Sour <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
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I'd like to join the LM fanclub. IME I have sometimes felt humbled by the strength of love some people have for their WS. Before reading on MB, I would have called them all mugs. Now, I admire their determination and have sometimes wondered "why don't I feel like that?".

Doctor Lemonman - I love that you push for the STD testing. People need to hear that. I think too many throw caution to the wind in order to reclaim their WS.

lemonman #1499936 10/13/05 08:12 PM
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honestly, if given another chance, knowing everything I know now, I still would not....Just being honest with you all.

And, being honest with you I (and I wonder how many others of us) who was unable to save my marriage using these principles, would NOT do it again - I think I'd take the course you did, immediately.

Regards,

BB

lemonman #1499937 10/13/05 08:15 PM
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hmmm....for many...it would have been easy to just give a half hearted attempt to save the OPs life, and then shrug, walk away and say "He deserved it anyway". And I would be willing to bet those privy to the incident would have gladly been blind.

I think what you did speaks to a decency of character that you also use in a loving way towards alot of doormats on the boards.

I know some people talk about doing plan A and plan B because of committment and vows and such.

Personally, I don't buy that.

I know, because I've been there done that.

What motivated me was fear. Pure utter fear. I see that here in so many.

Interestingly enough, my marriage had no chance until I was headed out of the marriage myself, acting with self respect and courage.

I also think that the Harley plan isn't just about saving marriages.

It's about rescuing the BS no matter what the outcome.

You know, I've seen you ridicule and complain about Plan A and Plan B - but I haven't actually ever seen you really contradict the concepts in any opinions you've offered to BSes...

I don't think you really do differ much from the Harley's ... though the interpretation by some here leaves alot to be desired...


~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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oh and...I don't think for a second that anyone who walks out of marriage after being betrayed is any 'less' that those that stay to work it out.

At the end of the day the only person you have to face is yourself. You have to do what you need to do to take care of you.


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LM, were I in your shoes, I would have done the exact same thing. In fact, you were more tolerant than I as I could never do Plan A or Plan B. Every BS that comes here has to decide if they want to try and save the marriage or cut their losses. There is no shame in either path. The only shame is in losing oneself entirely by trying to hang onto a long dead corpse or allowing gross injustice to go unchallenged.

I am glad you're here, you're a committed smartass who is a lot of fun. You're alright for a carpetbagger. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I also think that the Harley plan isn't just about saving marriages.

It's about rescuing the BS no matter what the outcome.

You know, I've seen you ridicule and complain about Plan A and Plan B - but I haven't actually ever seen you really contradict the concepts in any opinions you've offered to BSes...

I don't think you really do differ much from the Harley's ... though the interpretation by some here leaves alot to be desired...

Thanks for saying it so well, Rosie. I agree with every word you said. It has never been the save-the-marriage-at-all costs program.

And I do agree with what you said about LM, he claims to be at odds with MB principles, but 9 times out 10 his opinions are right in line!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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i think recovery of any sort, personal or marital, requires a bit of smartass...

lol, maybe Lem can do a clinical study and determine if smartass traits are a biomarker for recovery


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Lemonman,

I don't know if you went back and read what I posted to you.

I just want to say what you said to me made me feel very good. You are right about my feelings for my H and how he has treated us has been despicable. But as I said I know the man who he was and can be.

Your take on the situation gives me hope that all is not lost. I for one appreciate you very much with your honesty.

Thank you for being you.....

Hurting


BS (Me)- 47 WH - 46
Married- 24 yrs
3 children 15,19,22
2 grandsons
D-Day- June17, 2005 while I was 1400 miles away
WH living with OW since July 05
WH filed divorce papers Dec. 22, 05
Divorced granted June 28, 06
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Doctor Lemonman - I love that you push for the STD testing. People need to hear that. I think too many throw caution to the wind in order to reclaim their WS.

You know I really appreciate that Tummytuck. I know that this is a "touchy" subject with many here, and obviously "touchy" enough that to the best of my knowledge is not addressed formally in this web site's articles and information or in any of the many books published by the site's author (I could be wrong about this, if I am , please let me know).

Lets face it, when a BS is trying to meet the emotional needs of a Wayward Spouse-as is in the plan A (which 99% of the time seem to include Sexual Fulfillment), My hard line stance of NO SEX untill full STD testing, and 6 months of abstinence.."aint gonna fly to well", with a Wayward Spouse who wants his/her "needs" met....NOW. The idea that these needs NOT being met are what "set up" the affair to happen anyway....is tough to argue here. I can fully understand why some people may see my "hard line" stance as counter productive to meeting the "needs" of the WS and in a sense "counter" productive to marriage Building. For that I can not make any apologies.

I fully realize that my hard A$$ stance on this concept is not necessaruly helpful to the Plan A (my stance would undoubtedly be seen as a "Love Buster" by many a Wayward Spouse), but alas I press on. This "concept" means too much to me, to let it go. I know that many people can alleve their conscious by saying "be careful" or take "precautions".....but that is just not good enough for me. Perhaps it is a "broken record" around here.....if one person is saved the horror of contracting HIV or Herpes, etc..than my job was done. Perhaps, I am not "giving the site's readers enough credit" to be "careful"...maybe, but I just go back to my old saying...ask the 40,000 people who got HIV last year, if they knew to be "careful"...I am sure we know what there answer would be to.

I "aint" a Marriage Builder saver (as evidenced by my marriage record, but I like to think we all complement each other here to make the ultimate "recovery" team).

Sour <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
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I am glad you're here, you're a committed smartass who is a lot of fun. You're alright for a carpetbagger. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You know Mel, you and I have had our differences, and I am sure that we will have more in the future....UNDOUBTEDLY..but you know what.."yer allright" too. I ran to my bedroom last night, when I saw that you were about to unleash a can of "whip A$$" on that newbie last night...I have been in that person's shoes, and I got a PTSD reaction, and succumbed to my Bedroom to find the comfort of my bed and TIVO....whew.....glad I got out of dodge when that one hit...LOL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
lemonman #1499945 10/13/05 08:42 PM
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**SNORT** I thought I heard the door slam pretty hard! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


lemonman #1499946 10/13/05 08:42 PM
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Yay, LM. I hope you continue to preach abstinence with the WS until there is a clean bill of health. The Harley's need to put that into some of their articles too.

I was reading an article on MSN today about risky sex. It is amazing how many people have their head in the sand as far as STDs go. Add to that the desperation of most BS's to get their WS back, and that is a recipe for disaster.

In my opinion SOMEONE (read LM) needs to give everyone here a wakeup call.

lemonman #1499947 10/13/05 08:42 PM
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Lem -

I think your advice about STD's is something we all need to hear. Even if it is an "EA" only they need to be tested. I for one will ask that of my WH if I ever let him back.

Kimberly
d-DAy May 14th
DS, age 6
Married 13 years
Plan B - 10-11-05


D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
lemonman #1499948 10/13/05 08:48 PM
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LM, you're alright. Some days, I think that the main comfort of MB is that every marriage blasted by infidelity does not have to end in divorce. So many people think that infidelity=divorce. However, everybody comes into their marriages with a different set of set of circumstances.

Some people start off with a basically good marriage that has been marred by infidelity. Some start out with a marriage that has always had problems, no matter how much the conflict avoiders want to hide them. Oh, yeah, that would be me. Maybe that's why I feel I'm on a collision course.

TIVO? You have tivo?

signed, grapegirl, part of the fruit fellowship...


Grapes are versatile. Grapes can be sour, sweet, sublime as wine and fabulous even when old and dried out.

Me: BS
XCH: Clueless
2-DS: Bigger than me
1-DD: Now also bigger than me!

5/6: Personally served CH with divorce papers
6/6: CH F? wants to time to see if M can be saved
7/6: FCH reenters our lives to work on marriage but secretly signs papers to start divorce...what's that about?
Mediation set for November
Final dissolution in January 2007.
2008 and beyond: Life goes on...
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