Take a break per Mr. Pure's input? Discard carapace and post as newly exposed Pep? Lovingly buff tough shell with turtle wax until outer shines again? Dunno. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

{{{Pep}}}
Sal

...

You know, Sally, I can honestly say that your hateful, dismissive post to Pep says much more about you than it does her. Anyone can read her posts and know they are anything but "phony" or "mediocre." I had the same thought as Bob did when I read your words: Pep must have pissed her off, because this is pure spite talking.

What I hear in your post is some old resentments thinly disguised as constructive criticism. And I am being generous with that characterization, because no one in their right mind would consider it to be constructive to tell someone they are "phony" or "mediocre." Your characterizations of Pep are truly bizarre.

That is pure spite, Sally. You can dress up a pig, but it still goes oink and still stinks to high heaven. This stinks, Sally, and anyone who reads your post can smell it.

I think Pepperbands original request on this thread was-----





SUPPORT!!!!

I think that was what you wrote pep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes I noticed it in some posts but really nothing too bad so I wouldn't be too upset about it. Of course if I thought what you said was [email]cr@p[/email] I can always ignore it can't I?
I mean I can only be hurt if I allow myself to be.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Look I'm a FWW and I get that way too!! I should be far more understanding, far more helpful, but at times I'm unable to. Why would it surprise me to find a someone else here has similar doubts and feelings?

Sometimes THAT is exactly what a poster needs to snap out of a dangerous and self defeating attitude.

In the end I feel we have only one thing we can try to do consistently ..DO NO FURTHER HARM ... but that is not slways being nice or not being blunt.... I needed it and maybe will again,,who knows....... maybe you will.

Overall I think you do FAR more good than any short term pain. In todays world pep thats not bad! And if something said by someone on this thread can help you then thats great!

I'm going back to breastfeeding this giant, can you believe he's STILL hungry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

AW

Pep, Mel etc you have been here for a long time, unlike me. In you experience have the boards ever been as short of success as they are just recently ?

Its enough to make a person wonder if the board is under attack ?

Just wanted to say I thought Sally's words were harsh this morning. From time to time we have all been peeved by various posters but I believe Pep is a bit of an institution here. Like her or leave her. Personally, I can't imagine MB without her (same goes for Orchid, BobP, Mel L, Anyname and, of course, me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Pep,

I need your input, your advice, your encouragement.

I value your honesty and your criticizm.

I don't know if I will be able to save my marriage or not. I am in a dark Plan B mode. I continue to work on myself. There are no signs that the frog prince will cut off contact to skunky poo, take responibility for his infidelity instead of blaming me, and commit to rebuilding a new and better marriage with me.

Can you help me work on me?

I believe Pep is a bit of an institution here.

Hi TT !

If I know pep AT ALL, I think you could not have written anything more provocative to her than this ! I think its EXACTLY what will spark her internal debate with some passion. Pep won't want to be an institution. " The man".

Whatever - I'm trying to be nice. "The lady"

TT I know you're being nice ! But you're right - Pep has become a board institution : an icon, whose presence may be becoming secondary to her insight.

Your post summed that up perfectly TT, really !

BTW by " the man " I mean " the enemy of hippies", a representative of authority and 'institutions'.

'scuse me I'll brim full of it this morning ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Careful about being an enemy of hippies. If I remember rightly, wasn't Pep a wild sixties chick or have I confused her with someone else?

Yes, thats the guts of my theory. Rubbish eh ?. I had a hard night forgive me !

Awwwhh...Pep, I recall a post a few years back when someone made the statement that I thought eventhing I posted was suppose t/b taken as 100% correct.

Note: I never said anything nears that but some posters would write stuff about me and others like: Listen to 'so and so', she/he is an oldie and knows there stuff.

Ok, well that's a nice compliment but none of us ever said we were wise posters. Just the opposite in fact. But the fact that a some of us are now giving 'hind sight' support, it may seem like we know more but never 'better than others'.

My learning curve still goes on. I don't get offended even by those who challenge my posts. I take it all in stride. Why? Because each are rightly entitled to their own opinions and this is what this place is, a place to post our opinions.

So when someone follows our suggestions and it goes awry, whose fault is it? Hm..... something to think about. In reality it is the fault or benefit of those who choose to use it. But as posters we s/b careful. I try t/b cautious (guess that's why my posts are usually soooo long). LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Therefore, when someone tells me off in a thread, I usually stop posting. Life does go on. I recall one poster telling me off a few years ago because while she was jumping for joy that she was in recovery, I sent a post asking her t/b cautious. She got angry and said I didn't know what I was talking about. So I stopped posting, within 2 weeks her WS left to go back to the OW and she was in tears. Because of her stance, I had stopped posting to her. I was sad to see her go into pain again because she had put her recovery at the wrong level. The fall for her was hard. Am I mad that she didn't listen to my advice? No. That was her choice and the pain was also hers. Am I sad she did heed it, even a little bit? Yes. But not for my benefit, for hers.

So my dear Pep, in reality the best thing is to help where you can and for those who don't want your help, don't. It's their choice to read and heed.

Hugz,
L.

Bob, I haven't ever seen it like this. Certainly it goes through phases, but this has been a long phase.

Pep:

To me you have expressed BOLD LOVE for years ever since I've come to know you. You have shown TENDERNESS towards me and have exuded STRENGTH to say to me things that I did not want to hear. You warned me of my FWH's continued contact and had a real hand in stopping an additional FALSE RECOVERY. You have even shown the TENDERNESS AND STRENGTH to encourage me more recently to work towards forgiving and showing mercy towards the FOW....

Pep, you have done this for me...made this major difference in my life and I am a STRANGER to you...

I am making a presumption here but if you do this for us folks here on the forum and also are exuding such STRENGTH in your real life this must be a HUGE BURDEN for you....

When I read the piece in BOLD LOVE about STRENGTH LACED WITH TENDERNESS, I thought of you.....

Hi there,

To be effective doing "good" here, you have to not be overly emotionally involved in the amount of drama that happens daily on this site. You need to care, but you also need to compartmentalize this as well---otherwise you will burn out.

I'm not always thrilled with your style either---especially when you lack compassion for all the parties involved. I believe that you're beginning to get sick of the "involvement" that it takes, and the time that it takes to truly get over the issues that are played out here. You'd like to shortcut it, and save BS's the pain. And when you see failures, you begin to question the methodologies involved---and you feel that you'd like to short-circuit the path to "recovery" by getting those in "hopeless" situations to divorce quicker.

Having been here much longer than you, I'd encourage you to believe that these methods are good for marriage, that you can make a difference, but that sometimes you need to let the process work and let both the BS and WS experience the pain. Although I haven't really been a daily participant here for some time (years), I was always amazed to find out how much good people can do here. I have emails from dozens of people who's marriages I helped "save". Those numbers total in the hundreds when you look at the posts thanking people (think BobP) for a restored marriage. When I used to chitchat with Steve H., he would also tell me stories of people "we" (the community here) had help who never showed up on the boards, but counseled with him. There are some couples who achieve success in a straightforward ways. There are others who never appear to get it---and then come back years later and say---"hey, I finally got it---thanks". If you've helped to save one marriage---you've made such a difference in this world. I'm sure that you've done that many times over.

When you find yourself getting short and impatient with people, it's usually a sign that you're not successfully compartmentalizing your efforts here with the rest of your life. Take a break. There are some good books with regard to "how to counsel" effectively---you might want to look into that. And professional counselors, therapists, and coaches often make time to go to therapy themselves---it's not easy work.

Be good to yourself.

Nope. Not at all. In fact, I specifically DID say

Pep has only been a source of support when she has posted directly in response to my own threads. Believe I said -
Pep, you've always been a positive poster when writing directly to me and I've always tried to express my appreciation for that. I still appreciate it! Whether or not we agreed or disagreed on all points, you always seemed to be careful and considerate of my feelings.

Folks, I posted to pep not to slam but to continue what I thought she was seeking - a self-examining, externally-examining dialog - as I hope she would do with me. Pep wrote earlier wrote:
Of course, I read other threads to gain insight and consider what other people are doing that is and isn't successful for them and in some of those posts, and some of Pep's recent thoughts to consider kinds of posts, I've thought I've noticed a less healthy trend.

Granted some things like tone! are still lost in the writing medium. I tried to impart my good intention and quiet demeanor. I tried to be as careful and considerate with Pep as she's been with me, while still being straight with her too. Apparently I missed the mark and for that I am very sorry.

Pep, with regard to your "what?" 'bout my asking forgiveness in the earlier post, it was because I felt I owed you an apology for not asking weeks ago if everything is all right with you. I was worried, but I let it slip. I feel like the right thing for me to do would have been to ask you how you were doing and express my concern for you and because I didn't do those things, I asked your forgiveness.

Sally

Pep, I just read your post. I don't have time to read everyone's responses, but just want to comment on what you wrote:

"Lately I have been finding it more and more difficult to support some of the waywards. I am also finding it difficult to encourage some of the betrayed to fight for their marriage.

~~~ especially in cases of EARLY marriage infidelity
and
~~~ especially in cases of REPEATED infidelity
and
~~~ especially in cases of LONG-TERM (years and years) infidelity"

AND

"I am weary of whining waywards "but my neeeeeds weren't getting met" ..... I want to scream ---> THEN GO .... LEAVE YOUR KIDS AND YOUR HOME AND EVERYTHING YOU HAVE WORKED FOR AS A COUPLE AND GO HAVE A SELFISH ME ME ME INFUSION .... but just don't whine when you return to devestation !!!"

You aren't alone. I have had those same thoughts and feelings. I have been trying to help FWHs in withdrawal over in recovery and am so sick of hearing how GREAT their love was with the OW. How it really was special. Maybe they will never have that love with their Ws. I sometimes want to tell them what I would tell H during his withdrawal. "Then go follow your bliss!" But I don't because my H was where they're at and he did snap out of it eventually.

I have also wondered how people do get over LTAs and repeated infidelity also. So you ain't alone Pep! CV

I think she's done a good job to try to get the new posters here to get over the initial drama of the sitch and begin to think with their thinking caps on again.

Overcoming this stuff is not easy. And there are some who return time and again and the same cycle is going on...he's cheated again...she's doing A or B or modified this or that...

And it's not that I think we're not having as much success as it is due to the fact I think the OP are learning just how we're doing the M saving...

She's done a great job imho.

Not alot of hand holding, but after the initial shock wears off of the sitch, it's time for business...I wish I could have done that faster myself. But again, my xh is in a "WS Hall of Fame" class by himself.

I think that the patters created by long term cheaters and repeat offenders is that they haven't had the course of their waters turned yet...no actions taken strong enough at the appropriate time to make them change course in their lives...and then there are some who like the way they are...some WS are just gonna be wayward and are just gonna leave and there isn't anything you can do about it.

I also feel how and why Pep does what she does. She's in medicine. I am too. Lemon is also. We all try to do some helping. We try. Like triage almost...others have "chronic" conditions that have evolved into something this bad and damaging over time, and others have severely "acute" conditions and it's either cpr time with a quick and positive response or it's doa.

Plus when you're in recovery ( I represent divorce recovery) or Marriage recovery, you are further out of the drama that once all consumed your life.

I also admire her wit.

Oh Pep...tomorrow I am seeing my nurse practicioner! I love her...I see her or my doc (there are four docs and 1 nurse prac) in the primary care office. I don't much care for the other 3 docs. Natalie is great! Listens..and is imho, as good as my doc! I swear I think I caught my cold from one of my patients last week...and I think I know which one...she was hackinga nd coughing...I myself put on a mask b/c she just wouldn't cover up her face. an OP...who claimed it was part of her "heart condition (chf)"...but I know either bronchitis or pneumonia when I hear it.