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Sally, somehow I don't think that insulting someone's posts as "phony" and "mediocre" bespeaks the words of a person who is sincerely offering support. I know that you have had some trouble with Pep in the past and have even seen you take some cheap shots at her, so I hope you aren't using this as an opportunity to assuage an old resentment. That would be very slimy indeed.
Perhaps you are not aware of how you are coming across, somehow I doubt this, but insulting someone who is sincerely seeking answers is not "support."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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MELI am feeling really good today. Things are gradually getting put into perspective. I am needing reminding of a few things and one of those things is that I am a work in progress, and all progress goes through a time of uncertainty. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This is GOOD TTI don't want to be an institution in the sense that I want to be more flexable and open than that ... but I know that you did not mean that, you meant something reliable. And that is GOOD. LostInTI need to do some inner work awhile, and when I feel I can be of service to you, it would be a pleasure. But for now, I am resting <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and rest is GOOD OrchidI absolutely love the "hind sight support" notion .... your post is helping me reallign my perspective. Mahalo <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> MimiI don't think I told you this (?) I am purposely ignoring your thread about the book BOLD LOVE because it is on my reading list and I want to read it without knowing anyone else's opinion beforehand. I joined a women's bookgroup a few months back, our next meeting is Thursday at my house, and I may suggest that book as a possible group read .... but I know they like novels ... I gotta see. But either way, I have it on hold at the library. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> CV55When you said that your WH eventually "snapped out of it" I had a wry smile cross my face .... because that is what I want to do ... shake the WS and say "SNAP OUT OF IT" .... and I would be so bold and so rude .... 'cept it doesn;'t work !!! LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Peachylove LOVE the medical analogies .... they so totally work for me ...the triage assessment, the CPR for salvagable emergencies and the DOA ... I loved reading this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It is frustrating to try and teach infidelity CPR and all the freshly wounded BS can do is hyperventilate and go all cross-eyed with anxious rage. Where are those 4-point restraints when you need them ??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Sally, somehow I don't think that insulting someone's posts as "phony" and "mediocre" bespeaks the words of a person who is sincerely offering support. FYI I have made a decision to block her posts for now ... which means they don't show up for me when I read a thread ... so you can stop responding to her on this thread ... that would be useful for me Thanks
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First of all, K I really appreciate your words. Thank you.Hi there,
To be effective doing "good" here, you have to not be overly emotionally involved in the amount of drama that happens daily on this site. You need to care, but you also need to compartmentalize this as well---otherwise you will burn out. I'm not always thrilled with your style either---especially when you lack compassion for all the parties involved. I believe that you're beginning to get sick of the "involvement" that it takes, and the time that it takes to truly get over the issues that are played out here. You'd like to shortcut it, and save BS's the pain. And when you see failures, you begin to question the methodologies involved---and you feel that you'd like to short-circuit the path to "recovery" by getting those in "hopeless" situations to divorce quicker. Having been here much longer than you, I'd encourage you to believe that these methods are good for marriage, that you can make a difference, but that sometimes you need to let the process work and let both the BS and WS experience the pain. Although I haven't really been a daily participant here for some time (years), I was always amazed to find out how much good people can do here. I have emails from dozens of people who's marriages I helped "save". Those numbers total in the hundreds when you look at the posts thanking people (think BobP) for a restored marriage. When I used to chitchat with Steve H., he would also tell me stories of people "we" (the community here) had help who never showed up on the boards, but counseled with him. There are some couples who achieve success in a straightforward ways. There are others who never appear to get it---and then come back years later and say---"hey, I finally got it---thanks". If you've helped to save one marriage---you've made such a difference in this world. I'm sure that you've done that many times over. When you find yourself getting short and impatient with people, it's usually a sign that you're not successfully compartmentalizing your efforts here with the rest of your life. Take a break. There are some good books with regard to "how to counsel" effectively---you might want to look into that. And professional counselors, therapists, and coaches often make time to go to therapy themselves---it's not easy work.
Be good to yourself.
A question .... when you feel frustrated yourself with a particular person you've been trying to support through the MB process, what do you do?
And one more question. How do you handle someone giving advice that seems to come directly from the TOW-board-mentality?
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Aussieswifeshall we call you muther jugs<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Here's my 2x4 ....... too bad about your feelings.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> these boards ain't about you......... these boards are about all of us being GUESTS on someones vision of a specific message boards that is not ours.......... The principles behind these boards do not change... the terminology of the boards frustrates and even infuriates some...(just ask lemonman....) to participate here there comes some onus of responsibility to be knowledgable in the principles that are the essence of its creation and sustainability.... the dichotomy in the end is that every single post...good bad heeded unheeded remains only peoples opinions........ I don't believe every marriage can and should be saved and I warp that in my head that we the collective should not focus on saving the marriage...but focus on saving the person no matter the outcome..... this site in someways is the story of saving the starfish one at a time...and not saving them all................ and though not perfect it is a lot better than any other one out there on the highway of the web.... this place is humbling.... justlearnings never wavering patience mortarmans Christ focused teachings Peps challenging short questions that make you stop and say wow why didn't I ask that.... bobpures story of honest struggle and hope.... believer, spiderslayer, weaver....lexxy, bramblerose, orchid......Suzan mels straight from the hip approach and the fact that she is the only human being on the planet that can use the word charletan in a sentence and it sounds like something one hears every day. lemonmans input...the good the bad and the ugly.... and obviously too many to name...and none left out to take away their contributions... and those that have gone.....but a surely missed... I offer you this 2x4 because I know how you feel..... To me these boards are like a small present each day...opening up a post to read what it says... it can be touching and inspiring...funny and infuriating... and that's just what I like about life....... Pep...you asked for a 2x4...and I would never deny you your wishes.... but know it is padded with admiration........ I hope you can see it like that.... ARK^^
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shall we call you muther jugs bwaahaaa! Love ya, Pep {{{pep}}}
Faith
me: FWW/BS 52 H: FWH/BS 49
DS 30
DD 21
DS 15
OCDS 8
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The principles behind these boards do not change...
the terminology of the boards frustrates and even infuriates some...(just ask lemonman....) Actually Ark, I would beg to differ with this characterization of present day with me. "Infuriation" is no longer a word I would use to describe my feelings with any aspect of the board. I don't believe that this is an accuare reflection of my views and opinions of this board PRESENT DAY....but then again, you are just giving yours...but now that I think about it, others I am sure still see my posts and views this way, so what I think I guess doesn't matter here.....it is for others to interpret....Who knows what I am saying...it's a Monday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.
I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
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I just want to make sure that I am on the record as having given Pepperband a strong 2' X 4' with no padding or cushion. I am a strong believer in corporal punishment, and giving people what they ask for.
I do aim to please.
Lem
Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.
I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
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Here's my 2x4 ....... too bad about your feelings.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
JUST what I needed to be told
shut up and deal ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Pep: What did your Book Club read last month? Just want to warn you, if they like novels, they might not go for BOLD LOVE... It's VERY DEEP...not necessarily enjoyable reading, IMO, even for those who might like SPIRITUAL books.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Lemonman... here's your test... please submit a 100 word post on the existence of the fog in correct defintion as applicable to THE WS.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> really though..please note that i mean no negative connotation to your approach to these boards... If I verbalize my belief that I think you have worked really hard at looking at things differently than before then it sounds patronizing and as if I am really saying that MY brainwashing is a success..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> BUT that is not what I am saying... I am saying I value the posts..... I get as frustrated as anyone else...etc etc etc... and at times infuriated.... and you often speak those frustrations for me.... you have helped many here.... and have brought blessing in to some of those lives... ARK
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Pep: I am a mere blip on the radar screen of this community. FWIW, you've helped me tremendously b/c your perspective and style of relating is so very different from my own. If I had to sum up your special contribution here, it is the ability to knock people out of their POV-groove and get them to address their problems from a different angle. Which can be especially useful for those who have long-standing and/or cyclical marriage problems. That said, I'd love to partake in the flogging, but you seem to be moving in a good direction now having course-corrected long before I even caught wind of your recent doldrums. Something in your summary post above reminds me of something I read recently. That you are a work in progress and part of that entails uncertainty. You hold up better under that deep uncertainty than most people I've ever seen, FWIW. When the metaphorical tectonic plates, they are a shiftin'--you just hang on and keep your balance best you can. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> All I can manage in the way of a 2 x 4 is a little Nat King Cole: "Straighten up and fly right,
Straighten up and fly right,
Straighten up and fly right,
Cool down, Poppa don't you blow your top." peace be da journey, back into oblivion for me!
"Lucky I'm the same after all I been thru.
I can't complain, but sometimes I still do.
Life's been good 2 me so far..." ~ Joe Walsh
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Lemonman... here's your test... please submit a 100 word post on the existence of the fog in correct defintion as applicable to THE WS.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> really though..please note that i mean no negative connotation to your approach to these boards... If I verbalize my belief that I think you have worked really hard at looking at things differently than before then it sounds patronizing and as if I am really saying that MY brainwashing is a success..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> BUT that is not what I am saying... I am saying I value the posts..... I get as frustrated as anyone else...etc etc etc... and at times infuriated.... and you often speak those frustrations for me.... you have helped many here.... and have brought blessing in to some of those lives... ARK Well, on second thought...I do see what you meant...perhaps my defensiveness of the comment is just my preconceived notion of what I think you "think of me" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...you get that all? To be honest with you all, I do still get infuriated with people on the board (and I still have a tough time understanding the true "Plan A"-and I readily acknowledge that), but I think I am just much better at staying away from such posts and NOT flying off the handle with a 2 x 4 that is unlikely to have any meaningful effect and only likely to make things worse. It is all in the growth of things. I went back and read some of my musings from even one year ago...and I can't believe that I wrote some of the things that I did...it doesn't seem possible...but it was me....it was there all in black and white...maybe I can blame the "aliens"...LOL.. Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.
I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
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Lem, just being honest here, but you do seem to "get it" now. I think initially you became alarmed at some of the Plan A abusers on here and just assumed that this WAS the MB program. I think you can see the difference now and do a darn good job around here.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Pep:
What did your Book Club read last month? Alexander Mccall
Last edited by Pepperband; 10/17/05 12:23 PM.
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* threadjack *
Pep, I know you read an dloved 'Wild at Heart", but have your read 'Captivating" the book Eldredge wrote with his wife about the search for a Woman's soul ?
I'm reading that now.
MB Alumni
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* threadjack *
have your read 'Captivating" the book Eldredge wrote with his wife about the search for a Woman's soul ?
I'm reading that now. Susan sent me a copy but I haven't gotten to it yet.... How do you like it?
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"interesting". Not sure the vision of some of the fiery women I have known ( Like Squid, or you) secretly wanting to be rescued, and unveil a beauty and yearn to be Julia Roberts or Cinderella, but I have learned a lot from th ebook already.
Like for example Eldredge proposes that nature's primary purpose is to be BEAUTIFUL, not to be practical. Puppies and flowers could be ugly. Fresh air could stink. But God made them sublimely beautiful and refreshing.He argues that beauty particularly NATURAL beauty sends a message particularly to men " everything will be OK".
And that Eve was God's crowning creation, conveying teh captivating beauty of God.
Read it Pep, i'd be interested to see how much you agree with.
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Hi again, Pepper... A question .... when you feel frustrated yourself with a particular person you've been trying to support through the MB process, what do you do? What I might do is to try a couple different styles or different ways to get the message across. I might work on a socratic methodology to get them to see or answer the point I was trying to make directly. I might ask another poster to come over and give a hand, especially when they bring a valuable aspect that I may not have in my repertoire. And finally, when I've done my best and I think they've heard all they can from me, I leave them alone and hope they figure it out. I had a very long 'relationship' with a woman on this board by the name of FacingChoices (JL's first post was to her). She had cheated on her husband, had a child by OM, etc. I worked very hard with her to try to help her give her marriage another chance, but she was pretty closed off to the idea. I got a lot of 'respect' from her for the way I had dealt with my situation (lead by example), but she was pretty sure her husband wasn't the same type of man, and that she would never be able to open up to him and restore her marriage. Several years later, out of the blue---she was back. With the wonderful story of a restored marriage. A real success. So miracles can happen---but they don't always happen in the timeframe that you might like. And one more question. How do you handle someone giving advice that seems to come directly from the TOW-board-mentality? This sounds a lot like the issues we have over on the pregnancy board. I like to treat everyone with respect there---if there are clear nutjobs promoting some wacky stuff---get the admin's on it. But I don't like the righteous anger from the BS's side any more than I like the TOW crap. Neither serves the purpose of making the marriage better. There are too many studies to indicate that "venting" (unleashing anger) only serves to make one angrier and continue the cycle. With people from a TOW mentality, if you're going to deal with them, do so with a "by the MB book" approach, especially with using the appropriate terminology. In fact, that's what I often do when I post here, regardless of 'who' is on the receiving end. When you frame responses in terms of the concepts and terms available on the website (with links...) you can help give people a boost to learning the material, and putting it into practice. You know Pepper---when I was here and knew everyone's story---it was exhausting trying to keep on top of everything and help everyone. I did that for a few years. I've scaled back---and this place has really grown. You can't do it all, so don't try to. Give yourself some time to heal, or stay away from "helping" and just chat with old friends. Take a breath. You'll know when you're ready to resume the fight... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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