I think God is a drama queen !

God calls us to do battle where the deck seems stacked against us and in favor of his enemies and our enemies.

Our 'victory' .... in whatever form it takes .... is part of His glory. The drama queen.

From The Sacred Romance ... "The battles God calls us to, the woundings and cripplings of soul and body we all receive, cannot be simply ascribed to our sin and foolishness, or even to the sin and foolishness of others."

"The display of God's works through our wounds, losses, and sufferings is yet to be revealed. And so we groan and wonder."

Bob is groaning and wondering .... he is right on target as far as I can tell! AND, Bob's groaning and wondering does not mean Bob's faith is any less than anyone elses !!!!

so there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Like Lieutenant Dan in Forrest Gump .... we put our will in front of God's will, and when we are not used in the way we think God should use us ... (Dan thought he should die in battle and NOT be crippled) we get all prickly and petulent and disobedient .... but Dan eventually found grace in his crippling .... and found peace with God's will.

Easy?

HA!

never easy !!!

nice?

HA!

hardly !!

Sweet and tender ?

HA!

sure .... yeah, right .... we think we "know" God's plan for us ... all of us are too short-sighted ... our role in this drama can change on a dime ...

our free will is in accepting God's plan or fighting it ... and we suffer either way whether we accept God's plan or not .... life is suffering ... everything that is beautiful in life also suffers for the beauty

this is the adventure

life is a drama adventure

For me Bob, what you are talking about is the secondary benefit of prayer.

When we go to God in prayer, it is in thanksgiving. We offer our love and devotion to God...lay it on His alter.

All our gifts are then a secondary benefit of prayer, through inner peace and good choices which come from being one with God.

"Seek first the kingdom of heaven, and all else will be given to you".

It is our love affair with God which brings good things into our life. When we offer our love to God, the Holy Spirit comes into us, and the choices and decisions we make are with the eyes/heart/mind of a spirit which is holy. And therefore can only bring that which is good to us.

This is what I am finally learning...after all these long years.

Hey Weaver! How are ya? I was just thinking about you this week and how much I have missed you. Hope you are doing well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think Bob has God confused with Santa Claus! Here is the idea, Bob, we are supposed to follow God's will, not the other way around. We can't dictate to God, so sending up a list of demands is a waste of time.

God knows what is best for us so we should pray for his will and the strength to carry that out. Never did he promise us freedom from life's trial and tribulations, only the strength to be able to handle it. Jesus told us in the Sermon on the Mount to pray to God "your will be done." He didn't tell us to pray for OUR WILL to be done.

Hey Mel!!!

I am doing really good. Life is great, and I have so much peace in my heart now. I decided to devote these months to God, and I can't even tell you how good things are for Paige and me. Our cup truly runneth over. The sky even seems bluer! LOL

Life is good girl and I am happy you were thinking of me. Thank you Mel!

Hi Weaver!! I missed ya girlie.

I think Bob has God confused with Santa Claus!
ROFL ! Funny 2x4 thanks ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Here is the idea, Bob, we are supposed to follow God's will, not the other way around.

How do we know what God's will is in any given situation ,Mel ? when I prayed " Please protect my marriage Lord" for years how was I to now that wasn;t God's plan ?

We can't dictate to God, so sending up a list of demands is a waste of time.

Of course ! Nobody can demand anything of God ! but are you saying we shouldn;t ASK either ? And if we do ask what can we expect ? THAT'S my central point.

John 14:13 "and whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14:14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do."

God doesn't say " that I MIGHT do if I feel like it"
Or "I will do If it is in my plan".
or " I might not, I'm the boss after all and I don;t answer to you".

So whats up when that is borne out in our lives ? Scripture says WHITE, experience says BLACK.

Now I can give God a free pass, or scripture an excuse for being old, but I think that's lazy. There HAS to be a way to interpret this ( and other) scripture that explains what we see in our lives.

I'll write this up for FH and mail him I think.

Thanks folks !

Friends on this Thread:

I thought of one of the greatest testimonies of FAITH: The 23rd Psalm

"My cup runneth over.."

"Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies..."

"I will fear no EVIL"...

A TABLE FOR ME: includes MBers...

ENEMIES...EVIL: YOU KNOW WHO/WHAT

Wasn't God's plan?? It wasn't God's plan for your W to commit adultery, Bob. That was your WIFE'S plan to commit adultery. Don't blame God for your wife's choices.

God's will was NOT for your wife to commit adultery. Does that mean that He will step in like a cosmic puppeteer and stop your W in her tracks? No, because that would be removing her free will. We all have the free will to choose evil, God is not going to reach down and stop us like a puppetmaster. God wants us to CHOOSE Him and CHOOSE to do good of our own free will. If he removed our free will, then that wouldn't be love, it would be coercion.

And if God stopped evil in its tracks, who would he start with because we are ALL evil?

God never promised you freedom from evil, Bob. In fact, he promised you that life would be full of evil and to put on the full armor of God to guard against it. He promised you the strength to endure it, not freedom from it.

Bob, is your interest in God contingent upon his doing your bidding?

Bob, do you think if you ask God to provide you with 70 virgins, he is going to do it? Of course not. When he says, " "and whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14:14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do," this doesn't mean that he is promising to do your bidding, but HIS. If it is his will, asking in his name, and if it glorifies the son, then He will do it. This must be taken into context with the rest of the Bible where he expressly tells us to ask that HIS WILL be done, not ours. Nor does that mean he will remove another's free will to do our bidding like a cosmic puppeteer.

We don't know what his will for a given situation will be outside of what the Bible tells us. We can know what he expects FROM US by reading the Bible and applying the principles to our own lives. THAT is his will for us.

Bob, is your interest in God contingent upon his doing your bidding?

Of course not Mel.

I want to know what to expect from God so I am not disappointed or unpleasantly surprised by Him. I am being honest here. God deserves no less from me.

I prayed for many things and they didn't happen. I prayed for other things and they did.

This whole discussion started when Ark posted a sermon to Pep about leaning on God and I said that it disquieted me. I do not know what to lean on God FOR. I still haven't had an answer really other than "to be there" , peace of mind at times of trouble, and salvation.

Clearly I can't lean on God to do what I ask in prayer, but according to teh sermon if I want healing I must len on God UTTERLY , and not only that must remove my earthly support ( take up my pallet").

This could be equivalent to not taking drugs and relying on God to heal instead I guess.

I would REALLY fear to do that DESPITE the biblical exhortation to lean utterly on God to receive my healing. I'd pray, but I'd take the drugs.

I'm trying to work out if that's faithless: whether my itercessionary view of God borne of my time in a charismatic church is actually incorrect, and God intervenes far les than I tought in the affairs of mankind.
I dunno.

I guess I should take this to a pastor now.

Thanks everyone !

Praying tonight I realised that I am under spiritual attack. Maybe the whole board is right now. So little joy, so much pain right now. Can you IMAGINE the DAMAGE this board does to satans ambition to ruin lives? No wonder hes attacking us.
So STUPID I didn't see the signs.
I am certain. Need to pray.

Philippians 4:13, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Wow, Bob..God is truly with us tonight...

I signed on to share what I had been reading in WHEN GOD DOESN"T MAKE SENSE by Dr. James Dobson.

He refers to Paul in his last two paragraphs of the Chapter entitled FAITH MUST BE TOUGH .

Dobson says on pages 176-177:

Paul addressed the matter of expectations directly:

I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being contentin any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do everything through him who gives me strength .(Phillippians 4:12-13)

Paul's secret of contentment emerges from a universal principle of human nature. It is to trust God regardless of the circumstances and not to expect too much perfection in this life. A better day is coming for thouse whos source of contentment is in the personhood of Christ Jesus!

Bob, I opened my copy of "When God Doesn't Make Sense" and here is what I already had bookmarked. It was a God thing yet again.

"My concern is that many believers apparently feel God owes them smooth sailing or at least a full explanation (and perhaps an apology) for the hardships they encounter. We must never forget that He, after all, is God. He is majestic and holy and sovereign. He is accountable to no one. He is not an errand boy who chases the assignments we dole out. He is not a genie who pops out of the bottle to satisfy our whims. He is not our servent--we are His. And our reason for existance is to glorify and honor Him. Even so, sometimes He performs mighty miracles on our behalf. Sometimes He chooses to explain His action in our lives. Sometimes His presence is as real as if we had encountered Him face to face. But at other times when nothing makes sense--when what we are going through is 'not fair' when we feel all alone in God's waiting room -- He simply says "Trust Me!"

Does this mean we are destined to be depressed and victimized by the circumstances of our lives? Certainly not, Paul said we are "more than conquerors". He wrote in Phi 4:4-7:"

Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again. Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus .

One of my favorite scriptures:

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

1Peter 4-12-13
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ so that you may be overjoyed when His glory is revealed

Bob, may I share something extremely personal with you? I wrote this long ago for a talk I gave to one of women's retreats:

When my son, W, was 7 months old he became very ill. He spent 4 weeks in the hospital including 1 week in the intensive care unit in a medication induced coma. When he came out of the coma and began to respond to the medication we found he was not the baby we had originally brough into the emergency room. This child was paralyzed on the right side of his body, so weak he was unable to make a noise louder than a kitten mewing and had the head control of newborn. Often during this long ordeal I felt God's presence in W's room. Many people were praying for our son. Encourgement came in may forms from the respiratory therapist that spent many nights pryaing with me to the young hospital chaplain that spent hours talking to me to our church family praying and visiting us. Our son was near death many times yet God chose to spare him. During this terrible ordeal some friends gave us a book called "When God doesn't make Sense" by Dr. James Dobson. I spent hours in that hospital room reading that book and discussing it with the chaplain. What a God given blessing that book was. I was not a baptized believer at that time. My relationship with God was new and vulnerable. He knew I needed hope to hold on to and He provided it.

Thanks FF. Really.

I'll get on amazon.

just a quick look here, this thread has really impacted me...

i wanted to make one quick comment...

HE DID ANSWER YOUR PRAYER, he gave you the resources to fight back and save your marriage. I have no doubt, God uses MB.

you think "protecting your marriage" means don't let anything bad happen like an A. free will makes that not possible. but when the A happened, God helped you have strength, and knoweldge, and patience and that resulted in your marriage being protected. don't ya think?

i know i found MB due to my prayers, i am certain of that. when i finally hit bottom and started to pray and look for God for help, He was there and He provided me with so much help.

He did protect your marriage Bob. just not in your ideal way.

maybe that is of little comfort for you and i can certainly understand that.

I agree with you, FL

Fl, I have real difficulty with that interpretation.

It is like " Lord, help me lose some weight" and God saying " sure, child, here's bowel cancer".

God did not protect my marriage,he helped me recover from disaster. Thats very different IMO.

But I am not listening any more to 'job's comforter' in my ear. It is an attack I am sure of it.

God is with me. I am praying.