I just read this and had one more thought. Have you identified the problems in your M that left it open to an A?

kloe and AM

I would agree with both of you on not using a child in a situation to get what I want or as revenge. I have been VERY careful not to use our 7 year old daughter. I've allowed him to see her or talk to her when he wants. I must admit that I am partly motivated by the fact that he left her with me, made no attempt to take her, and always asks me IF he can see her. He knows that she needs me and that we are very close. I also know that she loves her Daddy. Reguardless of how I'm feeling, I don't want to hurt her or change her feelings about the kind of Daddy he is. I'm afraid those feelings will change for her without any input from me.

I wish that baby could have a close relationship with his father, but I'm not expecting that to be a reality. I've tried to express this to my WH but the fog is too thick for him to see that as a consequence.

MWC

I don't think many times, unless there are serious issues...that the faults Kloe of the BS lead to an affair...Nah!

I was always meeting EN's of my xh. I know many who did...the affairs WERE IN SECRET...and out of a feeling they were ENTITLED TO HAVE...go figure?

I believe you MWC, should concentrate on the health and wellness of yourself and the baby. Plus the other poster may be right...that he may have ow in parking lot...go home and sleep with her after walking out of the delivery room with footprints and all on his little scrub top they give new dads.

He is a sperm donor right now dear. He has left the home.

A single life? What single life? He is creating a new single life entering this world and he's turning his back on the other ones he's created as well.

What is with this entitlement that a WS has? That they can walk out on their families and act like a single person?

Your nurse IS your advocate. I would make things clear to all...that your WS is not to be there. You want peace, love, quiet, and a nurturing environment to welcome your child into the world and so that you have an easy physical delivery as well. You deserve that!

You're either wayward or not. There's not degrees to it.

He wants a divorce. To think a man would be divorcing his pregnant wife...wife of all his children...a good and faithful wife is mind boggling to me.

To think this idiot can legally do this without being shot in this country is also ludicrous to me...where's 1800's texas justice when you need it?

I am absolutely had it up to here...I MEAN IT...UP TO MY NECK AND ANGRY AT WS WHO FEEL ENTITLED TO DO WHATEVER THEY WISH TO DO JUST SO THEY CAN FEEL..."HAPPEEEEEEEEEY".

If you want my opinon on what I'd do..

I am sooo with Ms. Martin on this...........

WS ARE SUCKY PARENTS....
their actions potentially bring financial and emotional burden right to their own childrens bedrooms and living spaces and leave it there for them to wallow in ...

There is NO such thing as a WS and a GOOD parent...the two can not and do not exist together in the universe...their affair actions are direct terroristic acts onto innocent children......

period....................................

our children face enough adversity out there...and the fact that WS are the ones that bring the adversity to roost in my opinion null and voids their ability no matter the talk to be a good parent...

talk the talk all you want
but walking the walk is where the proof is....

I am so with that the event of birth and the viewing of such does not a good parent make................

and using the birth to ease his guilt is pathetic.....

and marriedwith though it is hard to shift your thinking and start focusing on what you want and not what he wants....will take practice and time ...but the sooner you start ...the sooner you will feel in control and in power of you and your universe.....

it is better to start now than never...

do YOU want him there....

what do you imagine him being there like...
what do you imagine him NOT being there like...

how does this play out in your mind...realistically..
how do you see this for yOU

ARK

I think the thing that left our marriage the most open to an A is that I thought we were immune. I thought our family was so strong that I didn't take time to consider something could happen. He SEEMED happy and I'm sure he had some emotional needs that were neglected, but our marriage seemed so NEAR perfect that I didn't worry about the small stuff. People we know seem so shocked that this happened to us. We were all about family and fun. This should be a lesson to anyone that thinks it couldn't happen to them. I read today on the Marriage Builders site that a person that thinks their spouse would never cheat on them is in danger and a person that thinks they could never have an affair is in danger of it happening. I thought that neither of us ever would. My mistake.

You're describing real life hon!

You did nothing wrong!

He did...You did not.

The MB approach needs to now show a way to deal with those who don't really have bad marriages before...but are dealing with transitional men/women who suddenly at some point in their life feel ENTITLED TO A LITTLE EXTRA MARITAL HORMONAL THERAPY...It's like they go freaking mad!

So if somebody is say...NOT happy...then shouldn't they say it? If your M was not fulfilling to your H, then why did he cheat so behind the back? Why did mine? Why did any of them? Why didn't they all come out and say "we're soooooo unhappy."

Now there are exceptions. Those suffering from long term depression and maybe some mental issues...that's different.

But the average WS here just slam bam turns into a WS without warning...at a moments' notice. No warning three shot fire. Nothing at all. Just a sudden desire to do whatever their little hearts want to do. And a devil may care attitude about their wives or husbands at home...AND THE KIDS TOO!

They want an endorphin ride on the affair train so they can FEEL ALIVE...or something really dumb like that.

Every time I look at this thread I get so mad I can't even post a reply!
I just have to make a comment here and get it off my chest. I simply can not understand how any woman can knowingly get involved in a R with a married man whose wife is pregnant!
Don't get me wrong - I am mad at him too - but as a woman, and a mom, I can not understand how another woman could continue in a R with a man whose wife is pregnant!

He has a real prize in her. That is not the type of person I would want to grow old with.

Hang in there. This child will truly bless your life - with or without your WH.

Well, I am crying reading through this post, because I am right where you are right now. I am 7 months preggo, and WH moved out 2 months ago on his own accord and as a shock to me. He has asked me to promise him that even if he files for a D before the baby is born (in TX, it can't be final until the birth of the child), that he will still be allowed to be there for the birth. I am most likely having a c-section (baby is BIG) and I told him he could be there.

I told him not out of selfish pawn-like reasons. I actually want him to come home for ME because he wants ME and not out of guilt. I say that if you can handle it, he can be there for the birth--nor for him, but for the new life's sake. No, your son will not remember, but my other 2 boys had the same start (well, not the same I guess) and I want the same for my third son to be. I do think, though, that after the baby is born and you are recovering, that he should not stay. THat is where I would feel overwhelmed and like I couldn't handle it. He might want to talk about the M or the OW or whatever, and that is a time I want to have with my new son. My plan is to have my WH take the boys while I am in the hospital and bring them up to meet their new brother. As a family--again, not for my sake or for WH's--but for my 4 and 2 year old's sake. They at this tender young age expect to see Daddy there. I will give them that memory, regardless of the outcome of the Marriage.

So I guess I am saying yes for the birth, no for the hospital stay.

Have you thought about how he would visit the baby? How often? THat scares the heck out of me like crazy. he is horrible with newborns and I can't see me in my postpartum state dealing with his babble.

Best wishes to you. You are not alone in this situation. I will keep up with you and hopefully be able to learn a lot from you and your experience.

marriedwith children and intexas,

My heart aches for the two of you! It makes me so sad, so angry that you should be in this position.

I think you both need a shot of indignation! I think that the main reasons for the father to be there at the birth are:
1. to protect and defend the mother and child's best interests and health
2. to provide a safe environment and signify his committment to the future of the child and mother.
3. to have the privledge of being part of a miracle, the birth of one's own chlid.


I don't think that a WS is capable of the above. Do you actually want a WS to stain the miracle of birth? I actually think that this is a good time to move to Plan B, if you are strong enough. You could put a part in the Plan B letter explaining that as long as WH's affair continues, you can not trust him to defend the best interestes of your newborn child and yourself. Your wish for him not to be present at the birth is not meant as a punishment for him, but to protect yourself and your child. The birth of your child is a sacred miracle to you that you do not want stained with adultery.

Wow, this is a hard issue. As a father I have both experienced being there and not being there. The moment your child comes into this world…. Wow. It’s something special and witnessing the birth of my kids was awesome! Fact is I love my kids equally - I have always gotten the same feeling the first time I hold them whether it’s right at childbirth or a few minutes later. So not being there is something your husband will miss – but not affect his love for the child or the child.

When I first read your question my initial reaction was let him be there. It’s more between father and child. Don’t deny them that privilege.

But after some thinking I changed my mind. This is an issue between family. Your child is joining his family. When your baby is in you the way a father behaves towards the mother is basically the way he is behaving towards the baby. No matter how much equality between sexes is gained the mother is initially always in better contact with the child. And research has shown that a woman’s physical and emotional condition will affect the baby. Has your husband leaving you 4-5 months pregnant been supportive? Your husband has already given out the statement that your family isn’t good enough for him. Why would the family want him there?

Keep him out. He can impregnate OW with child 4 and stick around with her if he wants to witness the miracle of birth.

I just believe that a WS has no place with a family.

Plus the health and welfare of mom and baby is to be respected.

She doesn't need to see the face of the man who brought her so much pain during a time when she needs focus, serenity, support and love? Plus it is already a painful thing to go through...been there done that!

When I think of my xh walking outta OR (I had csection) crying...and worried b/c my son was premature and my preeclampsia was flying outta control and my bp was in stroke zone during surgery...he told my surgeon and friend that he wanted ME saved...that this same man would turn into a WS? It makes me sick.

And to think my xh, now a WS, could do all he did to us...and more...and impregnate another woman while I was still legally married to him and that his son knew he was shacking up is beyond me. And to think he walked into another delivery room a few years later and again pretended to walk the walk of a good and dedicated father.

I do not believe a WS should be in the delivery room.

They deserve nothing imho.

Ark
In response to your question "Do I want him there?" I don't know....

"What do I imagine him being there like?" I'm sure I would feel sad to look at him and angry because of what he's done. He was at an ultrasound a week or so ago and that was my feelings then.

"What do I imagine him not being there like?" I would probably feel alone and abandonded. I already feel that way, but I would FEEL like my other half was missing.

I don't feel he deserves to be there and it might be worse for me if he was there than if he wasn't. If he were working on our M, I would absolutely want him there. I will have my mom and Mother-in-law there for me. I don't feel as comforted by that as I did having my husband by my side with the birth of our daughter. I know that HE can not give me comfort right NOW.

Him being there seems like a bad choice, and him not being there seems like a sad, bad choice. You might remember that this baby was not planned, and I was very upset to find that I was pregnant. Our current situation has not helped in causing me to feel greater excitement. So the answer is still...I don't know what I want.

My opinion, whatever is in the best interest of the health of the mother and baby. The last thing in the world you want is stress during the time of delivery and if you feel there will be conflict that might cause undue stress, by all means avoid that situation. The mother goes through enough body changes, blood pressure increases, etc, without the need for extra stress. So please consider how having the father in the room will impact you mentally and physically. I know a lot of the other issues are important, but the health of the mother and baby are the primary concern. And if having the father present might even help that, then that should be considered. You don't want the worry and stress during delivery.

intexas,
I'm so sorry that you are going through such a similiar situation. I hope you have a lot of support. My family, his family, our church and friends have all been great. Most of them have not experienced this situation so they can not really understand the feelings that we are experiencing.

How is your WH behaving? Is he wanting to work on the marriage? Is he still involved in an A? I truly believed that my WH would never leave me or his family for another woman. I didn't think he was perfect or incapable of mistakes but none so devastating as this.

I had been trying to move into what I think Plan B is. I'm a little unclear, but have been thinking the past couple of days that this may not be the time. I did eat at McDonald's with my daughter and him last night but tried to avoid conversation about "us" and just focus on what has been going on with our daughter. I thought this might also help my daughter's stressful day she had. She was upset by not knowing ALL the answers on and IQ test that I volunteered her to take. She seemed happy to all have a meal together.

I don't think that this is going to help WH move out of the fog but I'm just tired of trying to make him see the light and just tired of TRYING. Maybe he has already seen what he wants and just hasn't had the courage to tell anyone yet. He did tell me that he asked his dad to go fishing and his dad just said "NO". He told me he thought that was strange with no explanation or anything and he didn't think his dad was mad at him or anything. I avoided telling him how angry everyone is at him and changed the subject back to our 7-year-old.
My prayers are with you, your 2 children, and your precious new baby. Do you know if it's a boy or a girl?
MWC

MWC--i actually have no family here in Texas because I met my WH in college and we stayed here after we got married. My family lives in Ohio and the rest lived just outside New Orleans--and they are all currently displaced across the US. Fortunately, my friends are great to talk to. They just don't know what to do practically, and I don't know what to tell them either.
My WH said that the OW went back to her husband two weeks ago, but that she is settling for the jerk. (Since my WH is such good stock himself right now). He says he didn't leave me for her, but because I was untrusting and not affectionate enough (mainly I didn't want to kiss him). And what he has done since he has left does not negate the fact that I have hurt him so badly. I don't believe this anymore. he was a sane, good Christian man before this, and shocked everyone's socks off by leaving. Everyone liked him. Now they think he is, well, you know. As far as he being with her now--he says he only sees her at work (they teach together) and that they talk on another friend's phone. I told him it was me or her--and he says he can't make that choice since I am not a guarantee--he wouldn't want to lose her or me as a friend. ANd he doesn't know how he feels about her. He also says he is afraid he'll be settling for me if he comes home one day. That is a STAB at the heart. She is 8 years older than he is and married without children.


By the way--it's another boy!

Not knowing you well enough, I don't have any strong opinions on whether to let him in or not. Let me just give you my experience and hope you can learn from it. I did not know WH was having an A at the time of our DS's birth. I found out a few weeks after he was born that the A started right before the birth. When I checked our cell phone records I discovered he called OW from the delivery room (I was being prepped for a c-section and he was supposed to be changing into his scrubs) and also called her before calling either of our families to tell them the news! This has forever tainted the experience for me. None of it diminishes the beautiful child or how I feel about DS, though. Here is my advice...if you do let him in, have your mother or other support confiscate his phone, pager, etc, so he cannot bring OW in there 'virtually.' When I found out about WH calls to OW at this sacred time, I felt like he invited her in the room with us. I still feel sick when I think about it. Make sure, and do not take his word for it, that he has no way of contacting her during the birth and tainting the joy for you.

Best wishes on a healthy delivery!

mw ~ I chimed in once before on this thread...but I want to add something.

I chose to have my husband in the delivery room.

My daughter is now about to turn 5.

I put his affair stuff aside for my own safety and that of my daughter. What I did not consider then was the affect on my daughter later in life...

I not only do not regret my decision then, but in fact I am very very glad I did let him join me.

You see, today...my daughter loves to hear stories about her birth.

Her face is almost magical when I tell her how she was born, and how we were so excited and loved her so much when she was born. She loves to hear how her father held her and showed her to me. She loves to hear how her father followed the nurses down the hall after her, when they took her for her birth tests and to clean her up. She loves to hear how her father sat and held her in his arms for hours while she slept, and how she SCREAMED if he so much as adjusted his posture or tucked her arm into a blanket.

At 5, she doesn't know, or care, that her father was cheating on me.

What she does need to know, is that she came into this world wanted and loved by both her parents.

I think that had our situation ended in divorce, this would have been even MORE important for her to hear.

Its my opinion that if we had headed to divorce, I would think that including dad in the birth process would have helped to bond him to a daughter that he would be caring for as a outsider for the rest of his life.

The reality of my choice was that my husband held our daughter, and realized that if he did not fix things with me, that he would not see her every day of his life.

That was a huge wind blowing fog away.

And the reality is, for a 5 year old, she doesn't need to hear that Daddy wasn't there to greet her at birth, because he was off doing something more important.

She doesn't need that burden.

I'm so glad that I gave that gift to my daughter. It was a tiny price to pay.

Bramble that is wonderful...and I think this approach worked well for you and your family. And the fact your beautiful daughter has such a good memory...

I am always so happy to hear of a reconciled family here!

I just wanted to say if it were me, and my xh was cheating...I could not bear that man being near me at all during something like labor and delivery...It would make the sitch even more painful.

I would send a plan B letter...and tell him if he changes his mind and decides firmly...FIRMLY on NC...that if he decides to be a Husband! Yes a HUSBAND and NOT a WS, I would welcome him in with open arms to the birth. But since he has placed sooooo very much undue stress on me and yes, indirectly on our unborn son, that he needs to figure his life out...as I have figured mine out...and that would be when I deliver I will deliver in peace. Serenity. and that a person who does not bring with them love, peace, and serenity for both myself and this baby would not be allowed in the birthing suite.

That is what I would write to WH.

It is a matter of reverent respect for the miracle of life.

As for me, I have the greatest reverence for it. I have personally witnessed those who do not...and use children for pawns or for gain...or in case of my xh, to facilitate a divorce and push me, the BS even further away because of the pain.

I am praying for you and your children, and your beautiful baby boy! You have many blessings...Your WS needs to realize they are there and his blessings also! Let him know in the letter he'd be welcomed back into the family at any time...when he chooses to re-enter the family. I might still even if he does NC and recommit, still confiscate phones and pagers, etc...

This is silly. When a baby is being born, people are not going to have the time to police a WH. If he can't be trusted, don't have him there. Save the babysitters for the baby.

As a male poster said, he can "greet" the baby a few minutes after birth, or even later -- as men did until 40 years ago. Unfortunately, the baby has to come out of a vagina. To be blunt, a man who has betrayed me and is divorcing me has no rights to visit that part of me. I guess for me it's a boundary thing. And his request, for me, would be an outrageous violation of my boundaries.

It is an intimate vulnerable experience for mother, as well as child. She needs to be around people SHE TRUSTS. It's no place for a divorcing dad.

In my opinion, he has forfeited the rights to this family. To ask if he can still be present at the birth if he files for divorce is absurd. Does he think it's a theatre premiere?

hmmm ~ can I just point out that this should not be about the WS rights?

Honestly, its not about the WS. There's just way too much focus on this thread about what the WS deserves and his "rights" on this thread.

I agree that there are times that a WS should not be allowed in the delivery room and that its really a personal decision on the part of the mom. Some men should never have children, much less be allowed with in a mile of the hospital.


But I've also been there, lived it, and reconciled as a result.

It's about what Mom and *child* need.

What that child needs more than anything in the world, is her/his family - both parents involved and emotionally plugged into his or her life.

No one can change the father of a child. Lord knows, if I could have changed my children's parentage, I would have. But the fact of the matter is that the WS will be that child's father no matter the outcome of marriage. And the child has a right and a need to start the relationship off well. That man will be the child's father for the rest of his or her life.

If the WS has been a good father in the past...what better way to remind him of his duties, responsiblities, and to remember the good man he used to be.

The child has the right to have both parents there to greet him or her. The child deserves and needs a relationship with both parents. Of course that can happen later, but to simply say that a WS doesn't belong there, because he is a WS isn't so black and white.

Birth is a powerful, incredible moment of bonding between parent and child.

The child has the right to have that with his or her father.

That the WS is having an affair does not change any of the obligations and responsibilities that the WS has towards the child. His responsibility is to be there, to watch over the mother of his child, and be there to care for and love his child.

The child deserves to have his or her parent step up to the plate and take some responsibility. The father has a important role and responsbility in that birthing room, he isn't just there to watch for his own benefit.

If what you want is for that man to return to his family and obligations, why stop him from doing at least one thing right? Why deny him the opportunity to reconnect with who he was and should be?

I felt that I had no right, to stand between my child and my husband, as long as there was no harm to my child. Yes my feelings were hurt, my heart broken, my world turned upside down - but I was the mature adult with all of the power in my child's life. I had to protect my child's interests too.

I protected my child, by making choices and taking actions that brought my family closer together, rather than divide it further.

And while this should have no bearing on the situation, think about the stress and strain that the WS's presence at the birth of the child causes to the affair relationship! Trust me, lil OW is fit to be tied while her "true love" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> is with his wife and family where he belongs. Talk about LBs!