Well, for the record I agree wholheartedly with the parts of your post above that are not copied.....You say what I would say, but just better articulated. In addition, I will also agree that I did take a giant leap of faith here and make a sweeping generaliztion with regrads to the christianity comment I made in my post....It was a stereotypical judgement based on what a few posters have wrote about on other threads.

I am still apt to fire off posts without clearly rereading my posts. I wanted to go back and delete my comments after I gave it some more thought, but that is worse in my opinion. They should stand for all to see.

Furthermore, Ark, I do not appreciate having to be called out on any of my posts...I do not like well reasoned and articulate responses to posts that I make....please cease doing this immediately...it is unnerving to me.....LOL (j/k).

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ark,
I need suggestions on the letter you discussed that I should write. I'll have time to check back later today. Thanks for your input again.
MWC

yeah I will help you...

pep is good with picture words as well.....

how big of a conflict avoider is this guy....

I think you need some boundaries...
like I think MIL needs to tell him that he needs to talk to you about what the game plan is..............

you need to clarify what boundaries if any you have for him to be in the delivery room.........etc.....

and you need to ask him WHY he wants to be there....

also you should be prepared to tell him that he will need to get legal visitation established and you need to seek out legal counsel on what the routine visitation is with newborns...........just to be prepared.......and to block exposure of baby to OW

what if you told him you had a dream where he got really sick and you wanted to go to the hospital to see him and he was really really sick....
but
the last time you had seen him he had spoken only of seperation so you thought that he didn't want you there....but in the dream you kept finding yourself in his room with him all hooked up to tubes and stuff and he couldn't see you or hear you but he kept asking for you...

and while you wanted to tell him you were there you couldn't say the words because the last thing you heard him say to you was that he didn't want you.....

and so you left him there.....and while it broke your heart it was your gift of honoring his request...

and then tell him that you need him to honor your requests for this babies delivery..........whatever you decide they are...................

that you do love him
but the pain he is causing is becoming more than you can bear......and that you insist that two sit down and discuss labor and delivery prior to that day...

and I would say that if his plan is to communicate through his mother...then I wouldn't have him there...but that is my opinion...but that does't seem very mature to me.

I don't know something like that...I don't know what type of words he would respond to...

also I would consider a letter to the OW about your pending delivery...hmmmmmmmmmmm

Ark

hi mw ~

I have 3 children. My youngest son was 7 when I discovered my husband having an affair, and asked him to move out.

2 weeks after he moved out, to his own apartment, I discovered I was pregnant.

yes, he was involved with our kids, but not alot. He usually showed up on weekends for a bit to see them, calls were sporadic.

My boy's hearts were broken.

One thing that I swore, was that I would NOT ever stand in the way of his relationship with them, provided that they were safe.

What that meant is I did not allow them to go with him to his apartment as long as I did not have it in writing from him that he would not expose them to OW. It took me almost a year to get that from him. So his visitation was never restricted - he saw them anytime he wanted - in our home.

So yeah somewhat involved is a good way to describe it.

The affair was still on when I delivered our daughter. We had both seen lawyers (his OW had dragged him to hers to talk divorce but he had taken no action. I had found one for me, and paid a retainer, but had put divorce on hold due to medical complicaitons with my pregnancy)

Hun, I think the biggest mistake people make is thinking that the WS behavior is the "real" person, and that everything else before that was not real.

If your husband was a good father and a good husband before the affair, then yes, you have a good chance of repairing this.

It just takes time.

I was separated from my husband 18 months, had a false recovery after daughter was born, and filed for divorce before it all sorted itself out.

Patience is what is needed here.

Frankly, I didn't ask my husband if he would come to the hospital.

He was told to show up. I know he wanted to be there, and I think he was relieved I didn't keep him away. I certainly considered keeping him out.

But I had serious medical worries - and hindsight now shows that I should have died. So it wasn't a matter of feelings anymore, it was what was best for me and best for daughter, I needed him there to take care of us, as was his obligation and responsiblity, regardless of his feelings for some other completely unimportant, nonconsequential woman, if something bad happened.

It had nothing to do with what he deserved.

Yeah his head was up his [censored] during that time.

But now, he's managed to pry it out of his nether regions and has a very close relationship with our daughter, and a much better one with our boys than he had preA.

This turned out to be a really hard weekend. I stared by trying to focus on the baby and preparing for him. I was excited that my friends and family were having a shower for me on Sunday. Some family members had went together and bought a crib and dresser for the baby's room. My 16-year-old nephew, who looked to my WH as a role model and and been so disappointed, wanted to put the furniture together during the shower. He called my WH from 3 or 4 different people's cell phones thinking he might answer someone elses. My nephew is a little immature, has never had a real dad, and has been raised by my parents. I tried to ignore this and focus but I could feel myself becoming angry and hurt that he was unreachable 3 weeks from the birth of our baby.

My WH FINALLY returned a call to his mother's cell phone and said that he saw several people had tried to reach him. In her disappointment and anger she decided he needed a wake up and told him that the baby had been born and he had missed it. She let him respond with shock and disbelief for a few moments and then told him that it could have very well happened. She didn't share this with me until after the shower and until I had already told her that what I thought would be a joyous day was saddened by his unavailability.

I wonder why I even ask the question of whether I should allow him in the delivery room. He doesn't appear to be too worried about it.

He did end up coming to help my nephew assemble the furniture and I sent him to buy a mattress for the crib. I'm tired of him playing the single man's life and only being responsible if someone ASK him to do something. It seems that he comes and goes wherever and whenever he wants with no responsibility. He feels an obligation to call our daughter and spend time with her, but I don't even know if his heart is into WANTING to do that.

I know, Ark, you would tell me to stop worrying about what he wants or what he is thinking and focus on me. I just never planned on being a single mom raising 2 kids. I'm so glad I have them as much as a do and wouldn't want to change that but I'm feeling scared and nervous about our future.

MWC

BR

Thank you for your sweet advice and for trying to get me to look at things from a different view....but I don't even know how to approach this right now. The only person I'm seeing is the WH. The good father and husband that he was before seems to have vanished. I believe the last 16 years with him were real for the most part, but feel they may be nothing more than a memory.

I know time changes things and patience is a virtue and all that, but I don't know if the old him will ever return. I don't want to drag out the pain longer than necessary and the man that was my best friend is behaving like my only enemy right now.

I could separate the old him and the new him if I could see that the old him still exsist.

Did your H come out of his fog slowly over time and first try to repair the marriage or did it hit him all at once???

I became physically sick when I was around him this weekend. I can't stand who he's become. This may be a normal reaction to a WS or it might be that my own feelings have changed so much that we couldn't repair our M even if he did want to try.

I feel that I've spent all the energy I can on trying and need to file for the divorce as soon as the baby arrives.
He will have had 4 months and a new baby boy to help him in his thinking.

I'm open to listening to any advice but feel I'm at the end of my rope.

MWC

He isnt her partner at all anymore.

My FWH was having an affair during the last month of my second pregnancy and for three months afterward. I had no clue. All I knew is that he was not really there 100% and it was extremely hurtful at the time and during the early months of our daughter's life. I would have gladly traded him for someone who's intent and care was on me 100%. I still get sick to my stomach thinking back to my daughter's birth.

I do not want that for MWC.

Honestly, her newborn will have absolutely no clue that the father isn't there. The newborn will be loved by people who honestly love its mother. An absent parent at a birth DOES NOT effect the love a child shares with their parent later. I know, since my father was in Vietnam the day I was born. And he wasnt present for my sister's birth, either.

Im in a recovered marriage with my FWH and we just had another child. This birthing experience was 200 times better than the last and I am so happy for that.

So, from someone else who has also had that experience (a WS in the birthing room), Id loudly proclaim NO WAY IN H3LL!

Scott Peterson just jumped into my head ... shaking that thought off right this minute !

ugh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

All my girlfriends think that my xh is alot like him btw...salesman...prolific liar...able to switch scenarios in a breath...

I hope that SP does NOT die on death row waiting...

May his number come up soon...filty liar and adulterous murderer!

Ooops...sorry.

I have REALLY BAD PMS!

Peachy
What is the deal with salesman and liars and WS?????????? My WH is an insurance salesman and obviously more of a liar than I realized. Please don't tell me your xh sold insurance.
Marriedwchildren

Pep and Peachy-
Come to think of it, I would have trusted my H with my life before and now being pregnant and my WH in the middle of an A, I'm feeling like I could be Scott Petterson's wife....kind of scary.

On the other hand, he has been far too exposed to do anything now.

MWC

marriedwith...

I am starting to become extremely concerned about

your husbands conflict avoidance
and
your conflict avoidance as well

you two are soon to be in situations in which there needs to be communication..............................

why do you tolerat this type of hit and run communication and the FACT that he answers your questions and concerns to his MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what is YOUR PLAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ark

Ark,
I agree that we have had a difficult time comfronting reality and avoiding conflict (especially my WH). I hate the way I feel even more when I have to confront him on these issues and continue to be discouraged.

You might be impressed that I did confront him last night. I was told last night that my WH was seen on a "date" with the OW. I called him directly and told him I knew that he was seeing her still and now it was being made public while he wasn't yet divorced and with a baby on the way.

He made no denials, apolagized that I was having to go through this, and told me that he thought that we might still get back together.

This is the first time he has said something about us getting back together in a long time and sadly, I had no interest in working things out after hearing that he was seeing the OW publicly. I don't know why it bothers me more than privately, but I feel it is just more lost love for me.

I told him that a person could only take so much before their feelings changed and that I no longer was wanting to get back together. He quickly asked "so there is NO CHANCE of us getting back together?" I could see that he was ONCE AGAIN wanting ME to be the one who finalized things and that he wasn't even thinking of working on our M. He didn't offer to work on our M or stop seeing the OW....just that we MIGHT get bak together. He regressed back to blaming the A on us not having sex for 3 weeks (which is not even a fact). I told him that I felt that was a mistake on my part but not the reason he hadn't returned home to his family. He said that he WAS the best father in the world (which he has always laid claim to) and admitted that he isn't the BEST father anymore. Our conversation really made no progress in any direction from there.

I feel we made some progress on communication with a great loss of respect for him on my part. As I went to bed, I didn't shed one tear. I just felt sick that this is what he has become and his only concern seems to be himself and the OW.

I do greatly appreciate the much needed advice I've received from you and have tried to follow through with areas I see that I need to improve in. I'm now making up for the loss of tears last night because I'm so saddened by the fact that I, like my WH, have lost interest in our marriage.

MWC

Marriedwith...

the thing is that I have NO idea what you are doing..

marriagebuilders works in the sense that it grounds the person following the program and offers them sound responses and reactions to whatever is thrown their way........

it is tried and tested.......though not perfect and certainly comes with no real garuntee to save a marriage...but even those that don't recover their marriages find they themselves strong well tested and confident they acted with grace, dignity and did all they could....

you my dear dear friend remain in limbo...with no committment to anything about what YOU want.........

if you are in PLAN A then lets get down to business and plan A your WS
if you are in PLAN B then lets get down to business and plan B his butt.....

what plan are you in.....

I am in great fear that this is going to crash in on you as the delivery nears.........
the more you are prepared for whatever is coming your way based on your choices the stronger and healthier you will be...............

what do YOU WANT??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

and i don't know is not acceptable because no one can help with that.............

ARK

dear marriedwith..

I pray you and the baby...are well......

ARK

Same. I was just thinking of her yesterday.