tonight I asked what she wanted. she said hope. I asked how can I give her hope when we can't plan. She agreed that is a problem. To her everything I do is untrustworthy and new. I fixed a atepost after work tonight. She said I'm just trying to prove a point. I offeed her a hand up, she says I have never done that before. Curiously, I have. She says that I call her special ands beautiful so what makes me think another won't find her special and beautiful. That hurt. I said nothing. She has been playfully punching me. Which is nice, a bit of contact. But she is so distant otherwise. I know she is hating this, and I have to only reiterate my commitment to the marriage to make her angry. Damn, this is hard. I felt like packing it all in this afternoon. How can anyone be worth this pain?

Only you can answer if she is worth the pain. For me, my husband is definately worth the pain, but who knows, there might come a time when I decide enough is enough. Until then, I am going to Plan A to the best of my ability.
Be strong, the affair has to end before you can make any real progress.

She has confirmed NC which is promising. And she was playful tonight. But it's breaking my heart. She is worth it. My family are worth it. But when I hear her peaking to others of me, she is so different. The alien is vile. I feel she may just be using me.

I don't know if they are clear headed enough to be using the b/s. I think the w/s are just plain confused. They see-saw back and forth, and unfortunately believe the rush of the o/p is the real thing. Thank goodness they don't think clearly, half of the b/s would have a lot harder time finding out about their cheating spouses if it wasn't for the confusion of the adulters who leave behind tons of clues to their affair.
Keep the faith, I know how conflicted they are, I remember just a couple of months ago, listening to my husband have nightmares, moan and crying out loud. I felt very sorry for my husband. These creatures are not to be trusted, but pitied for the pain they have caused and the pain that they live with.

How do you deal with the awkward silences. My WW really doesn't want to speak to me and I feel I am crowding her by forcing conversation. I know one of her major ENs is conversation but,napparantly, I have nothing to say that is interesting. I also know she believes half of my comments are 'trying to pressure her'. She won't simply talk to me about little things and there is only so much to be said about her work and the kids. I ask how she is and how the day has been and get terse answers. I believe she is starting to be intrigued about whether the mariage can work but I feel she will secretly contact the OM, although she mocks the 'addiction' concept.

She sees no future for us. I asked her last night what could I give her, and she said 'Hope'. I asked how can I give her hope if we cannot do anything together. Whe said that that was tough. She also said that I tell her, now, that is she special and beautiful, sdo why can't someone else find her special and beautiful? That really hurt. Especially when she says I have had my chance and blown it.

W, the answer to all the above can be found in ending the affair. And the affair will not end until all contact ends. [and I do mean ALL contact, even seeing each other in the orchestra] Your best weapon for ending the affair is exposure. You can't reason with her; you can't meet her needs as long as she is still in contact with the OM. Nothing will move forward until she withdraws frm the OM. And that likely won't happen until the affair is exposed.

Sorry to sound like a broken record here, but the most important thing you can do to save your marriage is to squeeze this affair and do your best to bust it up.

OK. Wife swears she is in NC. FIL, I believe, is against affair. Have told most of our friends. Some support wife for happinness (shallow people), some are appalled. My parents are furious.

Yesterday I got home from work in a good mod, smiled sweetly at WW and said how nice to see her. She looked at me and said 'I'll meet you half way' which was a shock. Still don't know what it means, but it's an overture.

Later on she said she didnt think it could work as I cannot be her friend and she needs a friend and she feels trapped. She sad she had been lonely for too long. This is odd as we spent an hour or two chatting about things in a very 'coupley' friendly manner. Still very early days tho.

Now, some advice from the sages please. Wife is going shopping on Saturday and I said I'd cook dinner. I have a nice salmon recipe all lined up and will do my best to provide a pleasant meal and conversation. My question is - do I go for a romantic meal with candles, a small gift, chilled wine and some flowers or do I keep it nice and casual and skip the blatant romantic overtures. My wife loves the romance but I'm worried it will be so obvious. Or do I bite the bullet and show her I can do romantic too.

Interestingly, I made the morning cup of tea today, as is the way these days, and poured her a second cup whilst she was in the shower. When she came out she said to me 'Now, you see, that was a nice thing to do'. Am I getting through or is this still more rollercoaster. We're only in day 3 of NC.

This morning, as I smiled at her, she asked 'Why are you so happy?' I told her 'Because I'm a better man than I was'.

She waved as she drove off to work.

Sorry it's so long.

wanting, I would look for every opportunity to make her happy. If being romantic will do that, then do that.

And when you say she is in no contact, does that mean she has quit the orchestra? Would she then send a no contact letter to the OM? If contact has truly ended, that should be the next step.

Harley:

"How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent. "

Dr. Harley?s (From SAA)

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she?s been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

Thanks Melody. I quite like the excitement of a romantic meal.

As for the letter, it's very hard as she has NOT committed to working on the marriage and short of a major LB arguement I don't believe she will until she see's major changes. She has stated NC and confirmed that and to the best of my knowledge, and I am taking steps to check, is adhering so I will continue to Plan A and better myself for it.

I have read His Needs Her Needs and am tempted to leave it on her bedside table. However, I believe that I am only currently meeting 2 out of 5 EN's whilst OM is probably meeting 3 out of 5. Which is a bit of a nightmare for me to understand.

I am well aware I have made mistakes, she is concerned that all the efforts I make are too contrived. My only answer to her is to still be with me in 12 months then five years then forever to see that I recognise and understad my mistakes and have taken great pains to ensure I deal with them. I only hope I can build enough to keep her curious to give us more time to demonstrate that the tired, often unaffectionate and quiet man she's been living with for the last 12 months really has brightened up and wants a future with his wife and family.

Thought I would chime in here with some advice. There is a delicate balance between the two above questions/statemenets. On the one hand you want to be super romantic and suprise her with an over the top meal whereas you fear it will be contrived appearing an illicit the wrong result.

You are right to consider both and pose this question. In my opinion you are likely to be dissappointed with your elegant romantic dinner with gifts, wine and flowers. A WW in withdrawal may not show up in a good mood (if she shows up at all...WW have lousy time management skills) and the extra effort is likely to illicit a guilty response. She will either feel undeserving of the effort, feel the effort is an attempt to make her feel guilty and/or feel the effort comes with "romantic" sexual strings attached which she may or may not be in the mood for.

However, you want to Plan A her and show her you are a new man/husband. You can not do this with one meal. You need to be consistent. You also want to be true to who you are. Your wife wants you to act and behave the way you did when she first fell in love with you. If you went over the top at the beginning of your relationship then so be it. But if this dinner your planning is so unique to you and her from you it WILL feel contrived.

What to do? I would suggest you go overboard with some small details. I will list some ideas below. But unnoticeable details allows you to guage the situation and disclose accordingly. She will not notice the details immediately and be overwhelmed. If she is not receptive to a romantic meal you get to keep it light and nice. Trust me, you will still get mileage out of the effort but only later in recovery as you can disclose what you did then. If she is not receptive you must maintain your composure and not appear disappointed. Plan A does not include making her feel guilty for missing your efforts at change.

My suggestions:

• If you normally just purchase grocery store Salmon, this time go to the best fish market in town and get fresh Salmon and some Peel and Eat Shrimp for an appetizer. (I recommend cold appetizers because like I said WW's have terrible time manegement skills and she may be late or just not hungry...you can keep the shrimp or a salad in the refrigerator for the next day and it will be just as good.)
  
  If you normally purchase Express Store flowers this time find a higher end floral shop. Some even have signature flowers unique to your area. Place them on the table but do not comment on their uniqueness unless the conversation goes that way. If appropriate comment how their uniqueness relates to your current situation. If she is not receptive to the whole romantic overtures do not indicate they are anything more than grocery store flowers. After a few days take the flowers and hang them upside down to dry them or have one preserved by the floral shop. You can present them or it later in recovery and describe their uniqueness and importance on Saturday (i.e.-the beginning of your recovery) at that time.
  
  Purchase a tray and new candles. Maybe even floating candles or something. Keep the candles out of sight so she will not see them immediately and become overwhelmed with your "contrived" effort or just otherwise hesitant to participate in a romantic meal. When and IF appropriate ask her if she would like you to light a candle or two. Then you can pull out the new items you purchased and impress her. If she is not receptive...save it for another day.
  
  If you serve chips and salsa. Go to your favorite mexican restuarant and purchase their salsa. Again, no comment unless appropriate.
  
  A gift. Say a fine expensive small bottle of perfume. You do not want some big item. The gift should not addressed untl after dinner and only if the evening has not been a disaster. You can indicate you got her a gift and ask her if now would be a nice time to present it. Tell her you do not want to overwhelm her and that it can wait if she feels you have already done to much. Her curiosity should get the best of her and SHE WILL ASK FOR IT. If the timing is not right save the gift for another day but you will get to tell her someday that you had it that night so do not get discouraged.
  
  Same thing with the wine. Get a nicer than usual bottle and go to a wine shop and learn some details about the vintage and the winery. Disclose if appropriate. Also, save and date the cork. Keep it as a momento of your initial forray into recovery. Let her see or find you are saving "relationship" items later.

I hope these ideas help. Your wife's behavior and responses are way off kilter now so you need to be prepared to just let it go if things do not go as planned. If you do too much and build up your expectations to high you are likely to get discouraged and throw out some love busters. Be prepared for the best night and flexible enough to go with the flow.

ACT OUT

That is nice. Some fantastic touches, I have done romantic things in the past, and I often prepare meals for WW, although not perhaps to this extent. As to the gift, I was thinking a small selection of fine chocolates - nothing overpowering but that I know she loves and that I have purchased previously for her. She knows I am cooking for her on Saturday, I have even told her I have a recipe prepared - she hates surprises, and I will not overkill. I hope.

Thank you for the ideas, they are truly inspired.

This morning I got up a bit later after a very sleepless night but got WW a cup of tea and had a shower. Again, kept talk light, about decorating DS6 room, she also wanted the number for Relate (UK Guidance Counsellors).

As I was about to leave for work she told me ‘I miss him, I miss my friend’. I said that was to be expected. I did mention the fact she was addicted to him. She said “What if I’m not?” I said that that is her choice.
“I’m through pleading and being desparate, I’m a better man than I was and I recognise the hurt I’ve caused you. However, you have caused me more pain than any man should have to bear - you chose to have an affair, but I’m still here. Not out of desperation but because I love you and I love my family. I want to work at our relationship and make you happy.” She said, “but what if I don’t”. I said that “that is your decision. But be aware what happens in these situations. The affairs don’t last and there will be years of resentment. Do your own research if you like. But I am here for you, and here to talk to you.” She did not seem too convinced, but at least she’s opened up.

I said try and see Relate today, I’ll come home if necessary. They may say walk away, they may say get further guidance, they may say work on the marriage, I don’t know. But it’s worth seeing them as quickly as possible. I also told her if she wants to talk then I’m here.

This is withdrawal, but can she sustain it? She has a baby group thing this afternoon, if her friends are stupid then they’ll screw this up for us. If they advise patience, then we have a chance. We can do this. If WW wants to try.

Nervous day again.

Wanting, this all sounds very promising, except the part about Relate. According to our other UKers here, they are moral relativists who often advise their clients to "follow their heart." There was another service in the UK that they recommended. I will ask BobPure about it.

I may have LB'd anyway. I phone WW at lunch to check she was OK after this morning, she sounded very down but said she had booked her appointment for next Wednesday. Then, stupidly, I asked what would she do if they said try and save the marriage. She said 'We'll see'. Then she sked 'What if they don't - are you going to be difficult' I said "I have no idea, I can't see the future. I'm doing all the running here, I can't convince you the changes I have made are permanent, I can only show you over time. But you need to invest that time and want to save the marriage." Then I stupidly said 'If you decide to leave, I'm sure we'll be able to talk again in five or six years as I will need that time to understand how someone can walk away from a fixable situation without trying to fix it. Are all you doing killing time until you can say you tried?"

Stupid stupid stupid. No raised voices but not a good sentence. She hung up on me.

I hate this so much.

I seem to remember that we had a WS go to "Relate" and she was a WS in the throes of an addiction. She told them she didn''t think she wanted to save the marriage so they offered to help her through her divorce. They are NOT pro-marriage, I am just warning you.

Can I make a suggestion about relationship talk? Sometimes it is just too much for a detached WS and the best thing to do is just back off and let her come to you. If you push too much, you push her away. She will start coming around more and more as she goes through withdrawal.

I know. I've backed off the relationship talk for a couple of days and it's been better. But how do you cope with the 'It's been over for years' and 'I never loved you' and 'I've been trying to save the marriage for a long time, now I've stopped trying' that I have to hear? How do I remain silent. I've been good at the small talk but she is so in pain and so am I.

"I agree that old marriage is dead and gone. I know we can have a better marriage in the future and I am willing to do what it takes to make a great marriage." Then smile sweetly and leave the room. Don't debate with her, don't get dragged into a fight.

Do you know that WS' ALL SAY these things? They rewrite history in order to rationalize their affair. It is result of being in an addictive affair. You can't reason with her anymore than you can reason with a falling down drunk.

I know. I miss my wife. I miss talking to her. It's so hard to think sometimes, particularly with the lack of sleep. Thank you for listening.

Well, she was lovely last night. All smiles and sweetness. we chatted amiably, with no R talk. Again this morning she was fantastic. My old wife back again. But all I can think is that she must have been in contact with OM and had her 'fix'. She was so withdrawn this time yesterday and now the about face. Why is she doing this to me. I know I hurt her but this is an unfair cruelty. How can one person hurt another so much without even feeling remorse. Particularly when we were supposed to be in love.

Keeping on Plan A. Got a nice dinner ready for tonight. But I feel she's only playing for time. Does that mean I have no trust and we are doomed to fail?

So with all this anxiety, is that dinner really gonna taste good?

L.