One of the best things about this board is that it provides a reality check. Sometimes, our WS tell us a thing and expect us to believe that there shouldn't be any problem with it. Okay. I'm in need of a reality check.

My WH was on a business trip in a foreign country for the past month. He recently came back.

The Story: He's been telling everybody that he came home last Thursday afternoon. That means, as far as I know, me, his kids and his parents.

Fact: According to his flight records, he came home last Wednesday afternoon.

WH doesn't seem to think that this descrepancy is a problem. He dances around it. First its, "Oh, I flew in on Thursday." Then it's, "Oh, I start out on Wednesday but made it to home on Thursday." This mutated into, "I went to work on Thursday." Geeze, I've done this flight many times. I know how it goes. You start out early in the morning, have an amazingly long day and get to our state on the same day. It's a dateline, timezone thing.

In the beginning, I started out broadly saying that I just didn't like being lied to. Through out our conversation, the same fabrication kept popping up. When he persisted, I pulled out the paper from the airline that said, by golly, he flew in on Wednesday. Of course, this made me a prying b******.

Oh wise ones, a little feedback. Is this a sin of omission? Or is it an out-and-out, in-your-face lie? WH says, why should a day matter? Well, it seems to matter to me. I feel like if I can't believe a minor detail like this, why should I believe anything? Any opinion?

Why would anybody lie when the truth would do just as well?

Well, it's a very long flight. Perhaps even crossing the international date line. It's pretty confusing with the jetlag etc.

I would worry more about what he was doing for that month that I would about that day.

-AD

If the information that you have indicates that his arrival time was on Wednesday afternoon, then it's simply a lie. I hate it when the facts are clear and in writing how some people will still claim otherwise. It's maddening when you get the "I don't know" when asked for an explanation. Often when trying to deal with this insanity, I began to question my own self. Don't fall in that trap.

I've never understood why someone would tell a lie when the truth would do as well. As they say in court, if a person lies about one thing, then you can question whether they're telling the truth on all testimony.

Grapegirl,
I think you have a good intuition and yes you should be concerned! Sounds exactly like fog talk to me. Next thing you are liable to hear is ther "must be someone with the same name on a different flight". After that will be "she's just a friend" too. Go ahead and dig. Radical honesty is radical not occasional. Be prepared for the worst and pleasantly surprised if it's noting.

Good Luck and I will hope for the best.

dukhuntr

WS alienship scientific explanation:

The magnetic pull of the polar poles compromised the atomic clock mechanics. The digital read out of the compnents were thrwarted when the electrical charge created by the nylon fabric in the coach seats were ignited by the constant movement of the occupant. The ever present charges caused by the occupant constantly rubbing his pants, ignited several charges in the groin area. This negative charge completely threw the atomic clock mechanism on his wrist into the next day. It was not a quantum leap in time, just on his watch.

Therefore, the plane started out early on Wednsday, crossed the international dateline on Wednesday but the atomic clock was shot forward to Thursday as the plane veered off course by the magnetic pull of the alien space craft hovering over it's flight path 18 degress due north.

...oh this is the alienship's lawyer's verion.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

In humsn language: It's a lie (aka: fog babble).

L.

GG I travel internationally on business a lot. Even if your H flew in from China, th arrival time and date on his ticket/receipt would be in local time.

Your H flew in on Wednesday. He is a black liar IMO.

I think it's a lie but it's hard to believe what the point of it is anyway. I mean you don't live together at present, he is having an A, you didn't have an appointment to see him on Wednesday, so what is the purpose of him telling lies to you at the moment. Very strange. TT

Sheesh. This one's easy: Lie.



Good question. Why SHOULD a day matter? Why compromise your own integrity over trivial details like a day?

I can understand your concern. Lying about insignificant stuff can be more alarming than lies about the big stuff....an indication just how far out there a person is.

Are you in Plan B discussing minutia of what time his plane landed?

How does this serve you well in your plan...

he gets to power struggle and play head games...
and you put yourself right there to be part of it.....

did i miss something....

ARK

Wow...seems that a WS can alter the space/time continuum!

My now xh used to claim he could do this too when going on a business trip.

What I did was call the airline, pretend the OW was say, my sister, and give all the incidentals of the flight...then I'd add in at the end, "We are all sooooo worried about her. She DIDN'T SHOW UP at the airport. We know she's on the flight." then the airline gets scared. Worried there's fraud or deception or something...so they sing like a bird.

I found out that monkeyho and ow2, his now W, had accompanied him on several trips. That always worked for me well.

And of course you'll be made out to be the bad guy....you pried.

I would simply say that the time you arrived is in the time at your local airport. It is not the time he would arrive say in...bagdad or london or something...it is in the present time. I would ask him if he's able to bend time and space yet because if he can, you're gonna cash in on it as you're his wife and deserving of the.50 of his income on this discovery!

In reality, he's simply probably getting off plane on wednesday...meeting OP that day...and thinking he's got a free ride for adultery for a 24 hr. period. My xh used that as well...trying to change flight times...or arrival times...or something. Saying there was a change in the flight, when he'd do it himself. Classic WS stuff. It is a lie. Don't buy it.

But be careful in your response. If he does try to paint you into a bad person, say that you were worried about him and wanted to pick him up at airport or surprise him or somthing. YOU DO the spin on the WS. It freaks them out and takes heat off their stupid attempt at diverting the truth. You know what WS do by now. Understand that they will never make complete sense.

The whole "how dare you find out about my affair. It's MY affair! It's my fun! You're not invited" mentality.

gg, aren't you in Plan B?

Yeah, Grape...

I was wondering like Mel...

What happened to PLAN B?

Are you leaving something out of this story? How are you having conversations with him?

This is not big deal for a WS...in the fog...they LIE, LIE AND LIE....

My H told me the other day that he started believing his lies were the truth that he told them so often....

It could be he did it intentionally to shift your focus from the completely unsupervised month onto the one day - which he can probably account for. So, after he's accounted for the day, and even for the "mistake" about the arrival, he thinks you're going to forget about the month.

And like the others said "Plan B"?

-AD

Where am I at in the space/time continuum of Plan B? Well, probably no place anybody at MB thinks I should be. I told myself last night that I was going to stuff everything down in my toes and not talk about it to anyone. That my marriage is [email]cr@p[/email] and I shouldn't expect much sympathy. Any advice I get seems to be polarized into "you just need to be nice to him" or "dump his sorry [censored]" At this cold pre-dawn, my sadness makes it all come out.

At my daughter's begging, WH and I went out last night. I haven't seen him on purpose since July. Fortunately, a friend came over and stayed with DD. WH doesn't seem to get my apprehension about leaving a 12 year old alone when she doesn't like to be. Obviously, I don't get out a lot. I've missed going out to dinner with an adult. I prepared myself. According to my friend, I looked "hot". Not that WH commented about it but I had dressed with care and looked very nice.

Neither of us was very hungry, so we had an appetizer and a beer. We talked generalities. We talked about his trip and what he did. He told me about his eco-challenge thing. I didn't talk a lot, just asked questions.

Next, we moved on to a nearby psuedo-Irish pub. Over this beer, things got a little ugly. WH is unrepentent for what he has done. He is still seeing slimeball OW. Apparently, she is mellow and fun to be with. Can't address relationship issues because he doesn't want to talk badly about me. Conflict avoidance, conflict avoidance, conflict avoidance.

At this point, I stood up and walked out of the pub. I walked outside, called my friend and asked for a ride. I walked back into the pub and gave my speech. Basically I said, "WH, you need to own up to the damage you have caused. You may have check out of the relationship but I have had no closure on it. If I am not mellow and fun, it could be because I am doing damage control 24/7. I have a big house to run, a job, many responsiblities and lots of uncertainities. I support the kids. I take care of everything. I haven't had any love or affection for a very long time. I'm not cheater. I don't have my kids parttime and have a string of boyfriends. Yes, I'm an angry person but I didn't ask for any of this. I just have to clean up the mess. Goodbye. I'm leaving."

That made him sit up and listen. He said he'd take me home. I said, "No, I'm tired of being the bad guy. I'm out of here." He said, "Let's talk some more." I cancelled my ride and we talked.

If I had any white gloves on, they certainly came off. I asked him if the last year had been worth the pain it caused? His answer? No. I asked him how he thought his daughter felt when she didn't hear from her dad on her birthday and then he sneeks to the house to drop off her present? Who did he think picked up the pieces of that one? I asked what kind of person is OW if she is so willing to f** a married man, help breakup a family but still sleep with other guys? I asked him if he's going to lie about the small, unimportant stuff like flight times, how could I ever believe anything he said? There was more. He countered with a lot of fog talk. I reversed babbled. It's weird to feel so detached.

In the end, things were a bit more productive. WH has said he will be making an appointment with Steve Harley for this week. I'm afraid I expressed my doubt; WH has promised to do this before. We said we'd get together next weekend. He said he'd talk with SH before then. He kissed me and I left the car. I didn't let him in the house at anytime during the visit.

I don't know if I did well or poorly. I feel quite jumbled. I'm willing to give it a little bit and then go dark again.

Send in the 2 x 4s and steel-toed boots. You can't beat me up anymore than I beat up myself.

A couple of thoughts.

1.0.0 This really could go either way.
1.1.0 H could be lying. H knew he got home on Wednesday and now is protecting his lie.
1.2.0 H didn't lie. H could have been thinking, I came home last Thursday afternoon.

2.0.0 You are bumping into an English language usage problem regardless.
2.1.0 The question your H is answering is imprecise. In common usage 'When did you come home?' can mean: When did your plane land? When did you arrive at your house? When did you leave for home? When was your trip over? When did you become available [to me/friends/family] again? When did you become available at the office again?

3.0.0 _AD_ Makes a fair point.
3.1.0 Even when the traveler has a grasp on time/day travel changes, explaining the travel times to those people NOT holding an itinerary, and even some that HAVE an itinerary, requires patience, precision and much repetition.
3.1.1 In similar situations, international travel with +/- day changes, it's been easier for me to say "I'll be home on [this day]."

4.0.0 Radical Honesty as it's been conceived has inherent drawbacks in practice.
4.1.0 Practicing radical honesty with yourself and with others doesn't mean you should expect anyone to practice radical honesty with you.
4.1.1 Use of over-literals when conducting regular pleasant conversation can make interaction mentally and emotionally taxing and sometimes downright undesirable.
4.1.2 Which honest response would you choose in this hypothetical situation? While visiting, Lucy spills her cup of hot chocolate on Sally's white sofa.

• Honest response 1:
  Sally skips to the natural end of her thought process and saying aloud only 'Don't be troubled Lucy. I'll get the sofa cleaned.'
  
  Honest (radically so) response 2:
  Sally shares her whole thought process aloud, saying 'Lucy, you're so clumsy. Last time you were here you knocked over my lamp. I love you but it really bothers me that whenever you visit something of mine gets ruined. I have no idea if this stain will come out. My sofa is probably ruined. The least you could do is offer to pay for the stuff you ruin. This was an expensive sofa. But I know you don't really have the money to pay for a new sofa. I guess your friendship is more important to me than a spot on my sofa. Don't be troubled Lucy. I'll get the soda cleaned.'

4.2 A H and W practicing Radical Honesty would need to first share a definition of what Radical Honesty will mean to them and how they will put make that concept a mode of behavior.

5.0 Please refer to Ark^^ and MelodyLane above.


{{{Grape}}} Let this go.
Sal

Grape just saw your post.

Hurrah for you. Disregard all or as much of what I just wrote as you like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm interested to see where all this goes!

Sal

Why subject yourself to more of this crap? From what you've said there you've definitely made your point and he should definitely know where you stand.

Let him prove himself by action now... no more words. Words are just words, he needs to provide some action. No more "talks". He either performs or he's history. I'm sure your daughter can understand that reasoning as well?

You need to draw that line in the sand to protect yourself. Ignore him and move on with your life, and if he starts ACTING like the husband you want (not just saying he'll act) then you can take notice.

Take care,

Miker

Well, what is your next step, gg?

My next step is to protect myself. I am going to purchase my new vehicle to replace my aging van. I'm going to keep living my life, loving my children and treading water.

WH has until next weekend to do something. Getting counseling with SH is my biggest condition. (Well, that and no contact with slimeball.) I know I've placed a lot of reliance on MB counseling but what else do I have? I seem to be the only person in the entire world who is willing to tell WH that he is doing a bad thing. The SH thing is a test. If WH has an appointment with SH, then perhaps we can go someplace with all of this. If he doesn't, back to Plan B. I'll know that it is all a lie.

DD desperately wants us to be back together as a family. I have explained my boundaries to her in an age appropriate way. She's at this horrible "I love my daddy/hate my daddy" place. I cannot change this. I cannot and will not control her interactions with her father. I can only explain that there are certain things I need and accomodations I can make. I can't do everything.

So, that's my plan. Do what I need to do to get through the week. Suck it up and keep on living. If I have to do more Plan B, so be it.

Today, I'm still feeling lower than a runover toad. Smashed flat but too busy to stop.

I was thinking over the course of the day, why I am so sensitive to the arriving home date. The whole thing punched a very big button for me. Last year, H (before I really knew he was wayward) was scheduled to come home from a similar extended business trip on a Thursday. He surprised us by arriving unannounced on the Sunday evening before. It wasn't a good reunion. Within 2 days, I'd snooped out the affair. It didn't take me long after that to find out that he had actually arrived the Friday before. He'd spent the weekend at slimeball OW's house WITH HER FAMILY. He missed DS's last regular season high school football game. Just blew it off.

That's why an accurate arrival date and time were important to me.

My game plan is back to a modified Plan B. If WH calls and the conversation is about couseling or something positive, I'll talk with him. I will not call him first.

This is getting so old.