Ok - so you run into STBX (though still living together and have decent days together and even an upcoming vacation..Yet there is no signs of the M lasting)..
and he is talking to another women. You join them since you still live w/your spouse and you have known this womaan for a few years. She may or not know of your M demise...She's M but everyone knows quite unhappy..

All body language that STBX is giving off is directed to her..Spread legs, body turned in her direction, when not directed to her still not directed to spouse, when turned in my direction crossed arms - her body language was similar but she did not turn her body very much to face his. He even gave slight arm touches (4 total) she did not receipricate these touches. a few words that WH even use to say to me were directed at this woman..callig her boob and commenting that she looked wooped and should get some sleep..very weird since he use to say this to me..

I just wonder if other people that are now in the "dating" scene since my WH is since the day we M..notice or read up on body language - do you put much merit in what you think you are "reading".

I bought a book on flirting and they make you very aware of body language and what to watch for. They do say that 1 movement isn't something you should put merit into..I guess I noticed a few movements that were grouped..whick by the book would mean that he was all out attracted to and flirting w/this women.

Maybe I read too much..

No comment on the body language question, but I have to ask - you are living with your H, have an upcoming vacation with him, and are making a point out of him talking to another woman - and yet you said this about a month ago:


I don't mean to judge, but your rhetorical question aside, does it not seem that your actions also have some influence in why there are "no signs of the M lasting"?

AGG

Minor OT and 2x4 - why on Gods Green Earth would you even CONSIDER going on a vacation with STBXW? I am completely baffled that you would want to spend ANY time with the man who has NO respect for you OR your feelings.

I feel that he is manipulating you for some undetermined gain in his favor...you need to keep your guard UP! Ask your lawyer if this is a good idead...there may be some obscure legal ramifications where he is setting you up for a fall.

I cannot stress this enough...if you are serious abut D, you need to move out SOON!!! There is nothing to be gained by spending time with this UNREPENTANT serial cheater who may surely be manipulating you again to your detriment...

Were I you, I would be RUNNING in the opposite direction EVERY time I saw him.

It is my perception you are "heading off the ranch" with your continued contact with STBXW and it COULD bite you in the @$$.

What do you have to GAIN by spending time with him? Nothing.

What do you have to LOSE? It could be a lot...talk to your attorney.

I say this as gently as possible, but THINK about what you are doing...don't FEEL anything.

Take Care,

WNB

From your description it seemed that your stbx was in a dominant stance toward this woman and she was rejecting him. I might suspect that formerly he had relations with her and that she had called it off. I say this because of the familiar and derrogatory way that he addressed her and his dominant stance.

Did you know that if you have "relations" with your stbx that it can reset the clock to zero for a divorce requiring a separation period. Also, if you are suing on grounds of infidelity, then having "relations" with your stbx is taken as reconciliation and wipes the slate clean for infidelity charges in court.

Just a few obscure trivia from my own court system...

V.

ABSOLUTELY NOT...This OP has nothing to do w/the demise of my M..He came along well after I buried my love for WH. I needed affirmation that I was still a feeling, desirable woman. I had shut myself off from even looking at men years ago. I had to know that I could be attracted to another person again. That my world (attraction) no longer revolved around my serial cheat WH..It confirmed that I could let go and still be OK..I will survive his multiple, mortifying, degrading, humilating affairs.

WRT to the above extract of your post...are you REALLY going on a vacation with this loser?

If so, what is your expected/desired positive outcome? Is this positive outcome outweighed by any possible negative outcomes?

Maybe I am missing something...if you could clarify/explain, perhaps that would help.

WNB

Then why are you going on a vacation with him and worrying about his interactions with a woman?

(((ItHurts)))

No to awful long ago you said

Why on earth are you going? Are you addicted to the drama? What happened to that whole 'I'm sending the wrong message thing'? And now on top of it, you are going to worry about how he interacts with other women? WHY? WHY? WHY? IMHO by allowing things to continue as they are you are abusing yourself? Sure you can say you've disconnected or are over him or whatever when we talked about your chose to engage in your own affair but those words don't hold water when followed by this post.... Do you see that? Remove yourself from the insanity? Do not go on vacation with him? I can almost pretty much guarantee that if you do go, something will happen, that will cause you to further abuse yourself...

ItHurts, frankly this isn't about him anymore at all. You know what he is, what he does, and how he is.... This is about you and your choices......

LH,

I think sometimes we want things to change so much that we convince ourselves that if we only work a little harder at it or try one more time or give someone a little rope to hang themselves with that the truth will finally come to light.

And then we do it again

and again

and again

and again

Until we finally learn to let go of things that are bad for us. It's a process that only the person going through it can experience - like grief. And none of us know another person's pain.

ITHURTS, if you are working a plan A you are on the wrong board. If you are getting a divorce, then you have to start thinking about emotionally divorcing yourself from him.

V.

I think it can be interpreted in many different ways.

This is deeper though.

I am sorry but I disagree with your choice to have an EMA with some other guy...while living with your WH...and now you're worried about some psuedo-body language of your WH and some woman? Who he may or may not have a past with?

If you're M is buried...then divorce! Don't go on vacations with the stbxh. What is the reason? Why do it?

And then you open up a new can of worms and adding to the drama by sleeping with some other guy! Sure, a WS causes your ego to get trashed about...mine sure did. But sleeping around can also do that as well.

I say make a decision.

Either go on this vacation and dig up this buried marriage and attempt a resurrection...or file for divorce...

but one thing's for sure...affairs cause pain. They're not morally sound.

By virtue of being a BS, you have no right to carry on an A.

Decide what it is you want. If you really think the vacation could help your M survive, then do that! But if it is truly dead...file for D and buy instead a 1 way 1 person tickets somewhere and enjoy a vacation alone!

Drop the OP.

Your ego will return in all good time.

We want you to succeed...and feel as good about yourself as you can...and feel good morally about yourself too.

Sometimes we all gotta suck up and just simply do what is right.

First - This isn't the forum section this should be in..but - I don't know how to move a topic..so I'll reply..



He booked this trip a few months back - there is a large group of us going that have a friendship/ business relationship together. So it's really not "a vacation" per say.
Yes, I probably am addicted to the "drama" -I've lived it so long now that it's a part of my "normal day"..
I wasn't "worried" how he interacted w/this or OW- I was wondering if others now pay attention to body language - and if I was "reading" him right - he only confirmed that he'll never change and I need to keep looking at that side of him for confirmation that I am doing the right thing by looking to move out and move on..Why do I always need that confirmation????


Your probably right - I'd let that buried love surface again. No, I would NOT have SF w/him but I could, given the right elements open my heart up again to him. Only to be shattered again...WHY DO I DO THIS????



OK Bill - Why do I make these choices??? What is wrong w/me???? Why can others here walk away totally and close the door on thier WS and yet I can't close and LOCK the door????

WNBS -

My attorney said that the 2 years we have been living in the same house but not doing things together isn't going to stand up in court - that's why she told me to get money and move out..I have the money for a large downpayment I just haven't found a house. That's probably just an excuse...to hang on..

I wish I could do that..I have such strong days then I have set backs - where I still feel the pain of his infidelities and the lose of a M.

Everytime we discuss the demise of our M - We cannot agree on how this can/could have been fixed. Maybe my Plan A was very weak - he says that I've treated him like crap for 2 years and I blame that on him not stopping his A's or agreeing to MC/IC. Neither of us would "give in"..I felt that I could not "pretend" to have a M anymore - that the OW had to go away 100% before I could be a wife. So we just continued to hurt each other..Deep down I know he can't stop - my old posts here tell me that - no matter what I did it was wrong or not enough.

I don't expect any outcome from this trip. We've taken trips together in the past and we are civil, come home and it all hits the fan again.

Sunny
Thanks - that's the way it use to be. He's hung himself so many times now that I don't try anymore to fix this. I just exist and wait for the next ball to drop.

I can only get so far in this step - have any suggestions for totally closing the door??? Never opening it again?

Peachy-
I want what I've always wanted - a magic wand. To make this go away, never to resurface. I want the man I thought I M, I want the life I thought I had...I want my WH to learn how to love and have intimacy with ME. I truly don't believe he can love anyone - I don't even see him love his children or parents openly. When he has said - he doesn't feel like other people do - I believe him.

I want to give up really I do - I know that's what's best for me - I just haven't been able to do it..Why am I being held hostage???

HUGS..

“””First - This isn't the forum section this should be in..but - I don't know how to move a topic..so I'll reply..”””

You know what (((ItHurts))), maybe this isn’t the ideal place but then again maybe it is. Many of the people over here are past their divorce and many of them have experienced what you are experiencing now. You post where you are comfortable.

“””Yes, I probably am addicted to the "drama" -I've lived it so long now that it's a part of my "normal day"..”””

My best ‘female’ friend is/was the same way. She was married over 25 years. She found out about the 1st affair about 6 years into the marriage. Then her husband became a habitual offender and she lived that way for the next 20-some years. During the last couple of years she got a male friend and had an affair of her own. Like you she wanted to feel alive and wanted. Eventually she did get that divorce but chose to stay in the drama and still see’s her husband just about every weekend even though she’s moved a couple hours away like 8 years ago. She has her good day and her bad days. The good are starting to out weigh the bad but not by much. Years ago I often questioned her about this and pleaded with her to break things off I’ll never forget what she said “He has a good side to him and when I see that I’m so happy but he also has a bad side that is so evil.” Now today, that man, late in life is starting to gain some wisdom and their times together are getting better and her bad days are getting further apart. I don’t beg mom to kick dad to the curb anymore. But ((ItHurts)) I’ve seen what this has done to her and feel that I’m watching a movie through your posts. The tears I’ve shared with her are uncountable and I truly don’t want that for you.

”””he only confirmed that he'll never change and I need to keep looking at that side of him for confirmation that I am doing the right thing by looking to move out and move on..Why do I always need that confirmation????”””

And I’m quite sure he’ll continue to provide you with that confirmation if you continue to seek it. But darling, you don’t need it. He’s showed you who he is. He’s told you who he is. You know who he is. He ain’t looking to change anytime soon.

“””Your probably right - I'd let that buried love surface again. No, I would NOT have SF w/him but I could, given the right elements open my heart up again to him. Only to be shattered again...WHY DO I DO THIS????”””

Again ((ItHurts)), I wish I knew. If I could explain it, I would have saved my mom from years of self torture. Just like that was her choice, this is your choice. IMVHO, that buried love you speak about probably ain’t buried none too deep and could be uncovered with relative ease only to once again bring about pain.

“””Why do I make these choices?”””

I don’t know….. Could it be that you want to be loved and are desperate for love. You know that your hubby has that good side in there somewhere and somewhere in your mind you can’t believe that this truly is him. You married this man that is a monster. Yet, you know that he can do good and he did good years ago. So you wait and you look and you wait to see a sign of goodness in there, a glimpse of once what was. And you see them but you also see who he now is and can’t/won’t reconcile that in your mind. Could it be that you are holding on to a dream that ain’t there anymore?

“””What is wrong w/me?”””

Ain’t nothing wrong with you. You are a sane person faced with an insane life making decisions the best you can. But you can’t fight insanity. You either leave it or join it.

“””I have the money for a large downpayment I just haven't found a house. That's probably just an excuse...to hang on..”””

Good call….. We’ve been talking about that house thing long enough for you to find one, be closed on one, moved in, and began remodeling….lol….. What’s holding you back?

“””I can only get so far in this step - have any suggestions for totally closing the door??? Never opening it again?”””

I think it involves steps. A good 1st step is realizing and accepting that that man is who he is right now. He’s the man that did so many hurtful things to you. He the man who used you. Even if he doesn’t resemble it now, he is the man you married. Another big step is removing yourself from the house and the drama. I understand this is difficult with the business, mom and dad had those too, but as much as possible you have to remove yourself from him. Then I think another HUGE step is to grieve. There are many models of the grieving process and ((ItHurts)) you are still on the 1st step. Yeah you have touched a couple of other ones but really right now I feel you are simply stuck right there. Get through that grieving process with your knees closed and the other dudes far away, as not to add more drama to your life. Then Lock that door…. You can…

”””Why am I being held hostage?”””

Because you are holding yourself hostage. Like I said yesterday, this is no longer about him, it’s about you. You have a voice, you have power, find them, use them……

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

I wholly second LH's motion...

You have to take CONCRETE and REAL steps toward separation and D, as there isn't ANYTHING (from what you tell us) that your WH is doing to better your marriage.

Morally, I don't have a problem with your SF "partner" IF (BIG IF) you had wholly and completely extracted yourself from WH and are simply waiting for the divorce process to finish. But you are not...you did (or are continuing to) have SF with this other man, living with your WH and going away places with WH...this is dangerous and destructive.

Marriage is a PARTERSHIP...one person CANNOT make a Marriage work. You are the perfect example of one person who has done the marital "heavy lifting" and accomplishing NOTHING because the other person (your WH) doesn't care.

It bears repeating...Move out NOW! All of that talk about wanting a house instead of an apartment is an excuse to STAY WITH WH!

If you want to stay with him and endure his behavior, that is your choice....make the decision and make your peace that you live with a cheater for the rest of your days. In 10-15 years...I GUARANTEE you will look back and ask yourself "Why didn't I divorce him in 2005?" because he has NO reason to change...none.

You have to MAKE A CHOICE...wholly submit to WH and his cheating OR Divorce him...this current arrangement is a powder keg that WILL blow up at some point.

It doesn't have to be this way...you just need to choose to leave and DO IT!

It kills me to see that you are STILL living in this self-imposed drama and you DON'T have to.

I am not trying to be vindicative or hateful, I just want you to understand that nothing good will come of ANY contact with WH...you know it and I know it.

YOu just need to Cowboy Up" and do what you KNOW is right! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Get off the fence, make a decision and STICK TO IT!

Keep writing and TAKE CARE!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WNB

Lost - Thank you for posting your experiencing "the woman's side" as you know it thru your mother. I surely know her pain and like her I "see" the same thing.

It's funny for me the good side is very rare anymore and when I do see him "trying" to go back to treating me how he did b-4 I knew of his A's and all this crap inbetween - I challenge it in my mind. I feel he has a motive for why he's being nice and it isn't to repair our M. I don't believe anything anymore...

I'm sure my family/friends have seen/heard more than they want to - they know how deeply I'm hurt but they also hurt as they cared for WH and never thought this would continue for so long or that he would shut them out too. I don't want this for me either and I'd like my tears to dry up - but, lately and I don't know why I've started to cry again. Just when I thought I was so strong and done w/this mess.


Yes - and maybe he wants me to learn to accept him for who he is - allow his A's and for me to live in a loveless, sexless M forever. Keep my lifestyle and allow him his..I don't know since he can't speak the truth of what he wants. I do keep reminding myself of the big red flags I saw early in the R that this DID NOT just start when I bought a horse. Though, that's when it got worse and it got more blatant when our business florished. His ego became more inflated while he tried to deflate mine.



CERTAINLY - I was holding onto hopes that he'd change - but when you have 1 good day and 7 bad - your hope begins to run out on you. I did read that if he does have IMHO (he does) strong narcissist PD - that it gets worse w/age. So I think when this started over 2 years ago - he was pushing 50 now he's 52 and WORSE.
I was hoping that he would want me sexually - but he doesn't and I don't understand WHY..I think I know why but I don't understand it nor do I want to accept that he is that empty that he'd rather be w/anyone but his wife. That 2 hrs. a week in a hotel mean more than having 24 hrs. a day knowing that someone "real" loves you. How can they just go from A to A trying to find/feel Love??? Don't they see it's not the answer to finding Love??? And if he is a SA (which he could be) why am I trying to fight against his addiction??


Sometimes I do think that I should NEVER have dug as deep as I did to get to the truth of his A's. If it wasn't going on in our business and people weren't talking - I'd probably still not know about them. Sometimes, I think I should just close my eyes and let this go and try to exist and again go back to the pretend M when I thought I was happy. Maybe if he just left me alone it would work - but he doesn't - he questions me constantly as to where I am, who I'm with, etc. WHY DOES HE DO THIS? I don't question him anymore.
I know that's not a life - but, I've already lived it for a long time..I know what to accept from him - NOTHING..except gifts, fake hugs, dinner/vacations w/friends..that's all..I love you's that mean nothing..
People do live this way and maybe at 48 that's the best I can expect for myself. Maybe being the princess or the doll in the china closet should be enough - maybe I want too much...


I think the thoughts of "looking back" and wondering "what if he finally became the man I wanted him to be"...is what is "holding me back from moving fast and forward.
It's funny - I'm not even attracted to him anymore - yet, I won't close that door..
Maybe I need to start IC again w/someone who doesn't just sit and listen but gives me the tools to move forward.

See how crazy I am - 1 minute I'm talking about accepting his A's and the next I want help to get away...I don't have a clue what I want do I ???

Bill, thank you for being here and trying to help me understand myself - I'm just still very lost.


BNW:

I thought I was done..I believed I was done..Maybe the reason I'm not falling for this OP - is that I'm not truly done. I'm still STUCK. Is God testing me?? Is God not letting me fall for this OP because WH will turn around and the lights will go on??? Because WH needs me to keep pushing till he falls and can't get up and I'll be there - becoz I always have been???
With all the many OW he's been w/why hasn't he left me??? Sometimes I think it's becoz of the money other times because deep in his soul he does love me and just doesn't have the skills to fix this or himself.

Boy - I wish it were that easy. It doesn't seem any easier for me to get off the fence than it does for him - does it???

I think I better find an IC and get busy - I need to understand that even if I find I made the wrong decision at least I made one and I'll learn to live w/it no matter what I decide.

I love you guys...

HUGS....

(((ItHurts))) It's amazing, the more you type the more I can relate to what I went through with mom.... I have some more to add but I'm super busy this morning, I'll catch up with you this afternoon...... In the mean time ((((((ItHurts))))))))........

“””Lost - Thank you for posting your experiencing "the woman's side" as you know it thru your mother. I surely know her pain and like her I "see" the same thing.”””

You know, the more I sat here thinking about this today, the more I realized how strikingly similar your story is to that of my mom. It’s actually quite scary how similar they are and the time frames are relatively the same. Mom entered her major conflict time in her early to mid 40’s. She reached for another. She moved out without divorcing. She moved back. She moved out. She filed for divorce and never truly finished it (property settlement) because of business reasons. In her case, though they’ve been legally divorced for almost 10 years, she never fully left and always kept that safety net there even when there was no safety to be found in it. On the flip side, my dad went through something similar to your hubby. He was on top of his field and growing very successfully. Struggled on and off with alcohol and there will never be a full account of the affairs. So what happened with them. Well, as I said, they divorced a while back and mom spent time on both sides of the fence. While for a while, I’m sure dad saw this as ‘freedom’ until he discovered the cost. He ran and played for many more years. During that time I disowned him, my sisters relationship with him struggled, and he found himself alone with only the memories of his business success to keep him company. That led to a couple of years of trying to buy a family, big time denial, and hard core drinking by my dad. Then something finally snapped a year or two ago and he saw mortality. At the ripe old age of 60, my dad began to grow up and exhibit wisdom of someone of his days. All the relationships in the family are slowly being restored probably with he and mine coming the slowest. He and mom will never be together, but they will never be apart. That’s mom’s choice. I do believe that if at the time of the divorce, if she would have went all in with that, that her life would be different today for the better. But we make do….. (((ItHurts))) I can tell you from personal experience, that it not what you want. You don’t want to “make do” or “get by”, it’s a very lonely way to exist.

“””Just when I thought I was so strong and done w/this mess.”””
(((ItHurts))) That’s denial talking. You know there’s still a chapter to write in this story, while somewhere in the recesses of your heart your hoping it’s the happy ending your brain is telling you it’s simply the ending and that’s scary. Thus enters rationalization, justifications, and behaviors you never would have dreamed of to combat the war between your heart and your mind. The one thing I can tell about you is that you can be strong and be done with this mess, when you choose to do that.

“””I was hoping that he would want me sexually - but he doesn't and I don't understand WHY..I think I know why but I don't understand it nor do I want to accept that he is that empty that he'd rather be w/anyone but his wife. That 2 hrs. a week in a hotel mean more than having 24 hrs. a day knowing that someone "real" loves you. How can they just go from A to A trying to find/feel Love??? Don't they see it's not the answer to finding Love??? And if he is a SA (which he could be) why am I trying to fight against his addiction??”””

Do you notice that all the focus here is on him? At this point it doesn’t really matter why he screwed around or why he doesn’t want you or why he can’t feel love or even if he’s addicted. The answer is he is all those things and he’s done all those things and darling you ain’t going to change him. The question becomes what are you going to do? How are you going to break free?

“””Sometimes, I think I should just close my eyes and let this go and try to exist and again go back to the pretend M when I thought I was happy.”””

((ItHurts)), you deserve and desire so much more than that. This ain’t make-believe land but I do have faith that you can have all those great things in due time. I don’t believe you can have them with your hubby. I do believe that you ought to get into the ICing and process this whole deal. Grieve….. And when the time is right, shine again…..

“””People do live this way and maybe at 48 that's the best I can expect for myself.”””

Don’t make me hunt you down and plant my size 12 cowboy boot firmly up-agin your backside. This could be what your willing to accept but definitely not in a million years the best you should expect.

“””Maybe being the princess or the doll in the china closet should be enough - maybe I want too much...”””

That boots getting closer to you…….. The desire for sanity and love in not wanting too much, you’re just at the wrong watering whole to get it. So either you’re going to keep pumping and hoping that water will come up magically from the dried up well or you’re are going to choose to leave to find a well of plenty, one that overflows…. It’s out there and it’s waiting for you. First you have to finish what you’ve started, then you have to ensure that you have the knowledge (health) to find the right well, then hunting season is open….

“””I think the thoughts of "looking back" and wondering "what if he finally became the man I wanted him to be"...is what is "holding me back from moving fast and forward.”””

I can relate to that in my own 1st marriage. I dreamed of saving that marriage when in fact all I would have saved was a dream, not the marriage I wanted, desired, or deserved. Today, through my struggling plight with the hard knocks along the way, I have the dream that is also my marriage. I am loved as I should be loved. I am treated as I should be treated. My cup overflows. Why? Well I believe that while I did some things wrong along the way, I also did some things right this go around. The biggest of those being I got to a healthy place before I started another journey. It took me over three years to get to that place and I took many dead ends trying to shortcut it. But now, now I have it and ((ItHurts)) IT IS AMAZING and you can have it too.

“””I'm still STUCK. Is God testing me?? Is God not letting me fall for this OP because WH will turn around and the lights will go on???”””

Honestly, your situation is a perfect example of Self-Will and not God’s Will. I don’t think you are being tested or anything of the sort.

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

As usual you have good insight to my problems and what I'm facing.

And at times I believe this w/my WH. The power, money, etc. tuned up his narcissist personality. His way or no way. But, when I look further back I can't blame the success - I put blame on him just being a womanizer a taker..I want her - I'll take her..

I blame myself for allowing him to control me even though in his mind he didn't. I blame that I should have Planned B right away and let the chips fall..It's too late to move out and not be DONE. I won't do what your mother did I won't go back. Maybe that's why I also hold on becoz the end for me will be THE END..


My WH is in the "buying" mode. He buys friends and his children ,hey he bought me for years too. He had a horrific R w/his twice D XW - now he tells me she'd take him back in a minute - IMHO - it's for his money so she and his adult children will be secure. How nice is that for me to hear?? Well, I'm glad she'd take him back - becoz I won't. Nor do I want him when he's 60 and every other woman realizes what he is..

No, I don't, but I do have many things around me to fullfill parts of my life. Friends, family, pets, shopping, etc. But, it is lonely when there are family gatherings and I'm there alone. It doesn't feel right - but, each holiday gets easier.

The only way to be done is to make that DECISION - which will be the hardest thing I have ever done in my life and as Nike puts it - JUST DO IT...That's where I do need IC - I need help to climb over that fence. I see people here at MB that have walked w/less reason than I have yet they have done it..So I need to belly up and the sooner the better.

90% of my feeling have been focused on him and his actions or lack there of..So I am to truly believe w/all that I have that he will never change and live my life w/o him. I've accepted blame for part of this mess - I can't take all the blame..I'd love to unburden him and do just that - but part of me pulls me back into reality and says NOTHING I did or didn't do could have caused this big of a mess or this many A's. He loves to put all the blame on me - then I feel guilty, I 2nd guess what happened in this M??? If only I would have done this or that differently I wouldn't be in this mess..Then I have to shake myself and say, YES, you would..this isn't about "you"..
Yes, I've stepped out now too - do I blame him??? No, I could, that would be easy..But, blame isn't necessary nor is justification..


That's probably exactly what I need..LOL..I need a reality check..I've just lived in fantasy land for too long and reality is scary..

YOu are blessed ,you are lucky for this 2nd chance at happiness and you value that.. I believe that I will need to "learn" alot of new things regarding R, and truly loving someone b-4 I can "be there" for someone new. My cup is empty. What steps are necessary to get and stay healthy?

I believe that as a self-defense mechanism I have filled my life with "things" to keep me busy and to hide from hurting inside - I may never find the time or allow someone to have my time again. I have become somewhat independant and I don't know that I want someone even WH to take that from me.

Again, I value your input - there are just days that I can't believe my life has gotten this screwed up..I do know that this M can't be fixed by having a good day here and there - if it has any chance of recovery we both need intense IC/MC. It needs the MB rules enforced and I don't think at this point either of us can do that..Too much has happened..Too many LB to count..too much trust has been lost. And nothing is going to change until I change it..Now - I need to step up and get another leg over that fence..

HUGS>>>>>

And one more thing -

Everyday - even the days that we are getting along - I am reminded here at work of his infidelities...that in itself should be reason enough to walk out the door and close it...Noone should be treated with such a level of disrespect and disregard. This woman should also be "woman" enough to leave our business - she sees the damage they both have done - yet, she has the [email]B@@@@[/email] to take a paycheck from me every week...Amazing.

I just wish he'd stop telling me "If I wanted her or anyone else I'd be gone"..see that's how he gets to me emotionally - how he makes me 2nd guess my decision to leave him...or not carry the full burden of his A's.

I can bet your dad did this to your mom too..They have a way of sucking us back in. For some sick reason we keep allowing it...Could it be our own low self esteem???

Did your mom have something that really put her over the edge when she filed???

I've put it up on these boards about a million times...lol... But IMVHO, the key here is actively and fully grieving the loss of the marriage. Further, IMVHO, the final stage of grieving something like this is forgiveness of yourself and your hubby. The day you can walk forward with no resentments influencing today, is the day when you are ready. As I said, that was over 3 years for me. I remember when I came to these boards someone said you should grieve a year for every 4 or 5 years married. I LAUGHED.... Guess what, they were right in my case it did take that long. BUT that was largely do to the fact that I chose not to actively grieve and spent a lot of time wallowing in denial and anger and depression. Once I got structure and guidance, it was like SNAP, DONE...... I do believe counselling would be tremendously beneficial for you.




I know in my mom's case, that had a lot to do with it. As a matter of fact some of it stemmed to prior to her married years with the disfunction of her FOO. And after years of being called worthless or whatever, she finally believed it. After years of being told HE COULD HAVE A REPLACEMENT FOR HER, she believed him. The truth of the matter is that my dad and your hubby are the truly sick ones in these instances, but that's what y'all have come accustom to. The sickness, rejection, and pain is predictable and in some sick way comforting. Way more so than the unknown.....


Yes.... But I'm not comfortable putting it out on the boards. I used to have your e-mail but can't find it. My wife and I have a joint account. E-mail me at billyandtara05@yahoo.com and I'll give you a quick breakdown of her divorce, then we can bring it back to the boards.....

Bill - I will private email when I get back from my trip