Hi Harmonie,

I hit a new and different low today.

Last night my W and I went on a date... movie and dinner after. I had been reading and thinking about the A before going so I probably wasn't in the best frame of mind, but tried to talk myself out of it.

The movie was fine... hard to fight during a movie... went to see FlightPlan.

The dinner started off poorly... My W was getting angry about our moving plans... she doesn't want to let the new owners in a day early to clean the carpets even though our stuff will be moved out... the reason why is that our only option to stay for the week of moving is at my brothers house. She is uncomfortable there... they don't know about the A but suspect... but they know we are having problems. She is afraid of questions. She would rather stay in our empty house for the last 2 nights on an air mattress than go to my brothers. She did apologize for getting angry, but the rest of the meal was a downer. I couldn't get out of my poor frame of mind.

Near the end, I asked my W one question about the A. I haven't found out much and haven't asked too much because she gets angry and is not ready to talk about it. My question was simply... what did the number 42 mean in her secret hotmail email... she used her favorite drink followed by 42 for her name. I am thinking it is either his age (I can't remember if he is 41 or 42) or it was a special date... April 2nd. They said their A started late April... probably they mean the first time they were physical as that is what most people associate an A to mean. Therefore, April 2nd could have been the first time they got together privately, or when she realized she was having feelings for him. I don't know... but I thought it was a fairly simple question. She became angry and said let's go and wouldn't talk about it. In the van on the way home, I was being silent, and she asked her usual question when we aren't talking... "are you not talking to me anymore?" ... even though neither of us are talking, it always seems to be my problem. I simply said "you were the one to end the conversation."

I didn't sleep much... although through the night she did roll over and hold me... said she loved me.

This morning, after I got home from taking my son to hockey practice, I went looking for her... thought she had left the house. She was down in her Mom's room still with the lights out. She came out quickly when she heard me and was angry that I was waiting outside the room...thought I was spying on them and said this is the summer all over again. (That's when I did stand outside MIL's suite to spy and find out what was going on in my life). I went to the office and she followed me. I said I wasn't spying, just looking for her as I wanted to talk.

I asked her if she felt that I was really trying to work on our M. she said yes.
I asked if she thought about now or in the future getting back together with OM. she said no... that it was wrong.
I asked her what is she doing to protect us from it happening again? She said "what do you mean?" I said that first, we have not told OMW yet... which would make him more accountable. And 2nd, she is holding onto the A details as a secret so that the fantasy world will stay intact in her mind. All it would take would be one phone call and they are back together.
I asked why she will not talk to me about the details... I said that I can think of about 5 possible reasons. She said that I've got all the answers because I'm doing all the reading. I said that I know the possibilities, but only she has the answer and that is why I am asking.
She said she is afraid of hurting herself and me. I told her that every source I've read says that talking about the details will help both of us heal. One problem is that our MC... although she said it would help build trust for her to tell me... she also said that it is her right to not tell if she doesn't want to. My W said she has to go and see the MC again because she needs help.

I left the house and came to my office at work. I called her and said that I have offered her many times to look together at what experts and people who have experienced A's are saying... but she won't look at it. Instead, she wants to just see our MC so that she can hear the words that she is right.
I agreed with her that she has the right to not tell me... but I then said that if she continues to keep this right... that I will not continue in the marriage. I will do anything to get past what has happened and rebuild... but if she wants to carry a M of secrecy and rebuild on sand instead of rock... then it is not a M that I want.
I said that we will continue with the move next week and I will set up my room in the spare room downstairs and then we can see about re-selling the house and I'll get my own place.
When she questioned me, I said that I want to know her... to be intimate. We talked about why her telling me will help. I don't know if she is thinking about OM every hour of the day. I don't know if tomorrow she will run back to him. I don't know how it started and if she tried to warn me before hand. I don't know if during, she tried to end it and if I said anything wrong. I don't know how to avoid it happening again in the future. I don't know what he was able to give to her that I wasn't. I need to know these things to build a strong marriage for the future. If she won't share, then I am wasting my time.

There was a long silence. She said she would think about what I've said but couldn't answer then.

So now it's done. Strangely, I don't feel overly anxious right now. The last thing I want is to end my M... but I won't sit back and allow a M that is not working to get better. I don't want this to happen again. She already had an EA 5 years ago, and now this PA. I worked very hard after the EA... woke up most mornings saying how can I treat her like a queen. Gave everything I could... but this in itself became a problem. I smothered her and it ended in an unbalanced R.

I see her having 4 options.

1. She will see my words as a sign of confidence and will want to keep the M... will work on her ability to share. (One of our main issues was conflict avoidance.)

2. She will stall... giving me bits of hope or excuses... not wanting to share, but not wanting a decision.

3. She will think I am bluffing and will call the bluff. (However, unfortunately, I am not bluffing.)

4. She is looking for a way out anyway and I've just delivered it to her.

I'll let you know how this plays out.

Hope you are having a great weekend away.

Sorry for such a long post... just venting.

Shaden

Hi Shaden,
I hope you are doing better since your night out.
Since I have a couple ofposts to answer to, I'll do each one seperately so I can address each properly.
As for feeling like a martyr, that started about 5 years into our marriage, I am guessing. I had been used to being a single mother of 2 kids for 2-3 years befor I met my husband. I was used to handling things on my own so it did not phase me to keep doing all the responsibilities from Bills to chores to child rearing. H worked 12 hour rotating night shifts so I was fine in my role as stay home Mom, and "domestic goddess". However, once he changed jobs and started to work normal day shifts and I had taken a part time job I became increasingly dissatisfied with his level of help in our home. His alcoholism started to show through and the trouble it caused was making things even more difficult.
I too thought "how can you do this to me after all I have done ....." and from there the bitterness and resentment started to bring out some of the worst LB's. We'd have huge fights, even physical abuse towards me, but then after he'd sober up or the next day, we'd be back to "nice" again.
Conflict avoidance was huge for us! In order to avoid a fight , if we could, we'd bottle everything us til it burst!
Or brush the issue under the rug saying we'll deal with it later. So many excuses, no time to talk, kids interupting, too tired....
So, YES, when I heard the words "I met someone else" I felt as though I was catapolted off the planet! I have seen this man through the domestic abuse, alcohol binges, his legal troubles (dwi's), driving him to and from work or court as he did not have a liscence.... the list goes on. It is so TOTALLY NOT FAIR! I scream this when I am alone sometimes!
And the fact I have invested 12 years of care and concern, love & trust & belief that we'd some how "get it together, together" That for him to so selfishly disregard me/us was and is still unbelievable!

As for trust.... I do not blame you one bit for "snooping". It is what we BS"S do and is totaly understandable from what I have learned. We have this little "trust issue" now thanks to our WS's. MyH says he can understand completely and has said that he can not get mad at me for any of the things I do in regard to his A. Like reading his journal or checking up on him or the things I now request of him to verify his comings and going and activities. HOWEVER, he has learned to avoid this at times thinking I wont find out something and has now taken to destroying things he writes.
But like when my DS#1 was getting into trouble, I'd resorted to going through his room and snooping. My rational was if I can not get his honesty and he wont communicate with me I haveto find out any info I can as to what he is up to.
So, what we feel we need to do to protect ourselves right now, IMHO, what ever it takes. We need to learn howto trust again and we have to figure it out for ourselves. Eventually, as we feel more at ease and hopefully see we can trust these WS"S we'll back off and give them more privacy.
It sounds like your W can unerstand this if she is trying to inform you and be acountable. But maybe you need to try to have more in your guidelines as to what you want from her to enable you to have recovery?
I have learned that if I am not specific in what I need or expect from H right now he will behave just a child and try to skirt around things, see how much leeway he can get away with, like going to a park while I am at work thinking if he gets home before I do I'll never know what he did or have to be accountable. Thing he has not learned is that I always DO find things out one way or another. Just like a Mom that has eyes in the back of her head! LOL.
Sadley I have become a pretty good detective.

The one thing I hate though is when H is in the fog. I have no clue what is on his mind and when I ask he only says "I'm tired" or "I have a head ache" or "I am thinking of work" .... since I can not read his mind it drives me up a wall! LOL. So I read his body languge instead and try to see if anythings "talks" to me that way.

I have to get ready for work now, but will be back this afternoon. I'll respond to your recent post then and tell you about last Friday night and my weekend. That damn roller coaster makes me want to hurl when it plunges downward!!!
Isn't there a different ride in this park? LOL!

Have a great day and Be Well,
Harmonie

Hi Harmonie,

I finally called my parents yesterday and told them about W's A. They had pretty much figured it out from the clues. I should have spoke to my father a lot sooner... he is a minister with most of his career spent in social work dealing with addictions and destructive behavior.

He confirmed for me that the A and her actions and behaviors are due to flaws within herself. Yes, I had a lot to do with getting our M in trouble, but these things in her could have led to an A even if I was the perfect husband. You have worked hard in your M and all the destructive behavior your H has shown is about him. That's a lesson I guess we both have to hear and learn.

My father talked about people coming to the addictions programs he managed and there are two ways in which most go... compliance or submission. Those that comply just do all the right things to get through the program and then go back to their past lives. This is what my W is doing. On the surface, everything is going well... as long as it is about her and I don't ask her to do any hard changes. Those that really change submit... submit to God, to themselves, they understand the addiction and what it takes to get past it.

As for the roller coaster ride... I think I not only came down last night, but I fell off the ride. I'll tell you more after I hear about your weekend.

Shaden

Shaden,
Hi, Wow, that took aa lot of courage and strength to be able to confront your w like that. You were not in the wrong to askher about "42". Her reaction sadly was insensitive and was not thinking about your feelings. whatever her reason , I think it must help her to keep her "secrets" alive. ?
I confronted H about somethings I read in an email from the OW after d day, I was able to ask when we were in front of the MC. I don't think he'd have told me everything otherwise.
I too had a similar confrontation with H on Friday night when he came home from work. (before we went out of town)
He had called me around 9 pm and "told" me he wanted to go out to the bar with some guys to celebrate a guys last day at work. Said I'll just drink pop. I told H I was not comfortable with this and would rather he did not. He was not happy and said huffily said "fine I'll be home right after I finish here" I asked him to please not be mad , that I just was not comfortable with this. He had also gotten this guy a card and a "gag" gift he had told me. But already gave it to him. I thought this was odd since he has never done this for any other person he had worked with before.
So I am home thinking the worst... and knowing him as well as I do I knew he would not be home on time.
He had insisted , too, that I not wait up for him after work because I needed my sleep as we were getting up so early in the morning, but after the call I started to get suspicious and let my imagination take over.
He has told me that the OW had switched to the 3rd shift so now they rarely have time to see one another. So I figured I would call work after I knew H had left work to see what time he may have left and then ask if she was there or not on her shift. The supervisor told me H had already left and that the OW had the night off...........
I was livid. He got home 45 minutes late and I told him we needed to talk.at first he was "snippy" and said he just wanted to eat and get to bed. I said NO- we are going to talk, NOW. I asked him what he did after work and he claims he was sitting in the parking lot writting. I asked him to show me but he said he destroyed it. (he usually does that now) I told him I knew she had the night off and then about how suspicious everthing he has said and done the last 48 hours has been. How convenient that I was to have been out of town and he was to be home alone on Friday with OW having the night off. He said he knew nothing about her being off....I don't really believe that.
Then I "let him have it" . I told him that I have not been able to express my anger and frustration about this whole mess since D Day and I have kept so much from him regarding my feelings but that now I was going to tell him.
I said "You have taken my love, my heart, my trust, and our marriage and basicly [censored] on everything I hold dear in my life. Because of your insensitive selfishness I am now affected for the rest of my life by this A. I am now a different person because of this and how I trust and love and feel will never be the same!"
I went on for a bit more, the whole time he hung his head and took it. At one point had watery eyes. He was very understanding and said he would try harder to do the things I have asked as far as the LB stuff and learn the EN stuff.
He also offered to call from work from now on right before he leaves.
So, that is how the weekend got it's start.
The next day we went up with our friends and the guys went 4 wheelin and my friend and I took out the scooters and went riding. It was nice and H and I got along well.
He took last night off , too due to a bad headache but it was nice to have him around to tuck the kids into bed for once as they miss H doing that.

I am going to have to get running now for work. I did not get to write here at all yesterday since H was home and I was trying to get alot done around here.

Hope you are having a good day and I'll "talk" with you later".

Be Well,
Harmonie

It's good that you were able to get some of the anger off your chest. I think we should be able to get away with some of these outbursts without them being considered a huge LB. The WS should be able to understand that we are going through he!!. But, just remember, that they are also going through their own private he!!... atleast they do when they reach the stage of guilt and then remorse. We need to find a way to express our anger and let them know how we feel without throwing the A in their face. If you can figure this one out, please let me know how to do it effectively.

It's great the rest of your weekend went well. Don't back off on letting your husband know your boundaries... but ensure it is done in a way that he hears how you feel and why it is important.

A lot has happened the last couple of days with me. If you want to catch up, you can read my thread "Looking for Strength". Just search on this post or search Shaden and you'll find it. I'm sure that I can just put the link to the post on here, but I'm not sure how to do that.

I'm going home from work soon to pack for moving.

Take care.

Shaden

Hi Shaden,
I will look for that thread in a little bit, I could not find it when I tried before. What topic is it under? General ?'S? I'll check.
Even though H says he can understand why I get in a mood over the A and do things I do, like play detective, He still has far to go in giving me reasons to believe and trust and to simply relax again. That too is something I told him I was getting so sick of. That I no longer have the security and peace of mind. The ability to believe him and trust is gone and I want to have that back.

As for how to tell them our feelings, and confront them with anything anymore?????? GAWD, that is tough cause I walk on eggshells too until I have a "practised speech" and choose my words carefully! One thing I have learned is to always use "I" statements. Never start off blaming, finger pointing, accusing etc. They are already guarded and defensive! When I approach H with saying things like "I am feeling like..." or "I need For you ...or from you" "I would like it if we could..."
Ya know, stuff like that. It is hard to get into the practice of it at first if you do not always talk that way.
I can still catch myself saying something like "you ALWAYS" or "You Never". That just puts the persons guard up to deny or defend or retreat even if they may agree with you!
We are so incredibly vulnerable to our spouses right now and it is so easy to set them off. We fear doing the "wrong" things, saying the wrong things, the wrong way.
|If they do care about OUR feelings, we assume they will take them into acount and go the extra mile to help us get over and above this he!! they put us in. But as I have learned, it is never safe to assume ANYTHING! So, I choose my words carefully and hope for understanding and some reciprocation on H's part.
Like you said, make sure they(he) knows your (my) boundries and feelings about it.
As far as not throwing the A in our spouses face.... well, I don't feel that is what is happening if we are tryingto resolve the issues we have behind it. But I have to stop myself oftenand ask "do I really want/need to have this question answered to move on'? "|Would it make any difference"? A lot of times I say NO because I may have MORE hurt to deal with and enough is enough! However, if it is a question that deals with future trust issues or a behaivior pattern that you see as suspicious thenI think it should definately be addressed.
I hope I have some how helped and not been rambling on. LOL. You may have read something like this some where else or I could be way off base?! I don't know, it is just my thoughts on how I try to handle things.
I am gonna go find that post of yours now.

Happy packing I hope! And remember......
LIFT FROM THE KNEES!!!!
Be well,
Harmonie

Hi Harmonie.

I didn't get much time to go online today. I did see your post on the other thread, but thought I'd reply back here on yours.

I believe that seeking details is a personal choice. Some want every gory detail and others want none. Right now I'm not sure how much I want... I want to know why and how this happened. I want to know what I can do to try and stop it from happening. And, as to details, I may want to know if my imagination is worse or better than reality. This is hard for everyone, but I am finding it difficult imagining details just because of who it was... someone I didn't care for very much prior to the A. I don't know how or why this makes it worse for me... maybe it would be worse if it was someone I liked and trusted. But my W knew how I felt about him, and because of that, it almost makes it a more personal attack on me. I "know" that is not the case... but it's hard not to feel that.

It sounds like you're on the right track for learning how to communicate. I read a good little book that talked about how everyone thinks and communicates in two languages... intellectually and emotionally. We need to learn both and use them to "soul" listen. Really be there and listen for what they are feeling, not just what they are saying.

It is very hard right now for us not to react sarcastically or with anger when we hear something from them that triggers the anger... but that is the worst thing we can do as it creates an atmosphere of fear for them... they will not feel safe to express their real feelings (good or bad) and that is what we want to rebuild the intimacy. It's not bad, as you put it, to use "I" statements and express our feelings in a rational way... but I reacted poorly a couple of times and now I've set our communication way back.... even though the rest of the time I am calm and mature.

Did your son make it home yet? How's the week going after a weekend away?

I'll be updating my own situation on the other thread if your're interested.

take care.

Shaden

Hi Shaden,
Well...It is 3:00 am and I am sitting here at the computter waiting for H to get home from work. After last Friday when he didn't come home as "expected" he agreed to call when it was time to leave. Well, he called tonight and said that he was going to saty late and work on something and be home in a "little bit". So, it is 2 hours and counting. I wake up frequently during the night if he is not in bed , I always have. But now that I am working this is really harsh on me. I get up between 5:30 & 6 every day and I am lucky to get to sleep by midnight. Then no sooner do I fall asleep now and he calls to report in!
I would not be so upset by this if OW didn't work there, now on this late shift....or at all.
Hwas really upset that I had called Friday and asked about both his and OW's where abouts. Especially since it was her supervisor. He is worried about "their livlihoods" as they are both the main bread winners for our families. He said the supervisor must think it was wierd i asked about them both. I told him "I am sure you have nothing to worry about , yet" he wanted to know what I meant by YET. I just said he probably didn't think anything of it and changed the subject.
But in the back of my mind I have been considering the idea of contacting the HR dept. or calling her supervisor or previous supervisor or someone. I am curious as to what their HRdept has to say about "fraternization" or a sich like an A? I would call annonomously I think if I were just info gathering.
I certainly can't / don't want to risk getting my H fired from this company as it is a great position and best Co. he has worked for. And even though I can care less about the OW's sich or felings, I want her out of there and it is not based on revenge, just my selfish need for peace of mind.
I often wonder if a BS has grounds for sexual harassment against an OW in a work place??
Every time there is contact w/the OW he acts strange all over agin and I have to fight my emotions and work even harder at plan A . I just don't think I want to put up with my anxiety over where he is, who he's with , what he's doing, who he's doing any more.
Gawd I hate this place he has put me in.
Hmmm, think I hear his car pulling up the drive way?

Nope.

ok, back to bed to try to sleep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> right.

Sorry, I needed to vent.

I did not go to sleep till 5 am! ewwwww! I feel very rough today! Hgot home at 3:45. Was Very concerned about me. Asked if I was mad, and strangely I was not mad. But I said I didn't know WHAT I was feeling?
Have to go to work, I am running late.

Hi Harmonie...

I know what those sleepless nights are like... very rough.

IMO, you had the perfect response when he came in. Let him know that "you don't need him" and it may work wonders.

I realize this is a great job for your H. But it is only a job. I would still recommend that you work towards him not working there. Your family and M should be more important to both of you.

I have been in a job for over 17 years (basically the only company I've worked for) and worked myself up to Regional Director. There are a couple of girls in the office with me who know about my situation and we have talked about it. I have told them that I can't talk very much to them because that is how these situations start. My W is aware of them knowing and is not happy about it. I told her, and I was very serious, that if this is a problem for her, I will immediately look for a new job. I have put a lot into this and make more money than I would at any other job I could get, but my family and M are more important. She said she doesn't want me to leave the job. I am willing to do this even without any A happening. Your H needs to be willing to do this for both of you.

I am sure that all experienced posters on this forum would tell you the same thing. How you get there, though, is the problem. Would he be willing to look for new work?

Even if he does change jobs, this is not fixing the problems... it just helps the current situation. But you are in your situation because of other issues, not because of the job.

Hoping you have the strength to get through the day.

Today is a good day for me in that it is the last day my MIL is living in our house. She really is a nice, helpful person... she would do anything for her daughters and grandchildren... but it has been a very bad experience for me this past year. I believe it is one of the key reasons why I am in my current situation (1 of about 30...LOL).

Take care.

Shaden

Hi Shaden,
I am barely awwake...lol... took me 4 times to spell your name right! Please pardon any further typo's!
My day went fairly well as my usual routine atwork was different, no kindergarteners today, just spec. ed students to work with. That helped alot!
H surprised me when I came home from work today by having one of my favorite movies on (Ferris BuelersDay Off) and we watched it for most of it, though I dozed off with his arm around me. Boy do I ever miss being able to have a quiet and "do nothing" stressless time with him like that.
Tonight, regardless of his schedule, I am going to takecare of me and go to bed by 9:00 or sooner if kids will fall asleep by then! That way if he calls and is working late I'll be better rested and hopefully will not stress and just go back to sleep.
As for H changing jobs. Just wont happen unlesshegot fired.
When he was job hunting last Feb. & March we found there are only 4 companies out here that do the type of Die casting he knows. Most of those places are awful, or would not beable to offer himwhat he makes...which is not quite close to what we need to make it , even with my added income. He has no formal education and thatis also a major deterent. and the some of the businesses go through frequent lay off's. I am still juggling the bills from when he was unemployed for 2 months. plus, where he works now is where we have talked of moving to....bad part now is that where OW lives is in the next town over and I would DIE if I had to run into her at a store or restraunt....yuck!!!!
I just saw thatI had a typo ... run in to her, not into... hmmm my subconcious is takingover!!!!LOL!!!

How is moving the MIL going? I hope she'll be happy where she is moving to? How is W dealing with this? Do the kids have to change schools? How are they handeling it?

well have a great evening! I am hoping too also. If I can get kids to bed early! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Be well,
Harmonie

Hi Harmonie,

I didn't get a chance to post last night. We finished moving MIL out... she stayed at her apt. last night. We also moved a load of stuff to my brother's garage. We are putting our stuff in about 3 spots because we're in limbo for a few days (have to move out 2 days before we move in).

We're going to stay at a hotel on Sunday night and have my son's birthday party around the pool...then staying at my brother's for a couple of days. That is still up in the air, because my W is very uncomfortable. My brother and SIL know we are having M problems, but don't know about the A... although they suspect. OM is a friend of theirs as well... he's their age, about 5 years older than me. Until the last year, we didn't typically hang around OM and his W very much (except when I played hockey with him). He was more in my brother's circle of friends...different stages of life with the kids, etc.. I don't want to tell my brother about the A until we let OMW know... which will be after we finish with this move... get one stressful thing out of the way before we start another.

Ferris Buehler... great movie... my kids were just watching it for the first time a week or two ago. They wanted to rent it last weekend to finish watching it.

Run into or in to??? Yeah, I've had a lot of similar thoughts. Even half hoping the word got out and he shows up tomorrow to help us move our furniture... I'll be moving the truck right over him. I don't think he has enough nerve to do that, plus he normally works Saturdays.

Some good news for me. A friend of mine... used to be a very good friend, who was basically my partner at work for 12 years (as I was promoted, he always was promoted right beside me as my assistant), he is coming to help us move. This is a huge step because a couple of years ago I was in a position where I had to fire him from work. This kind of hurt the friendship... didn't talk to me for over a year. Through a mutual friend, we connected, went for lunch a couple of times, now things are starting to improve. Not as good as reconciling with my W, but I'll take any good news right now.

I didn't realize you worked at a school... atleast that's what it sounds like. How do you enjoy that and what do you do there?

Did you take care of yourself last night and get some sleep? As for the stressless times... they will come.

I read a post on here yesterday...I think from Mortarman... he was giving advice. He said something like..."It's impossible to build trust right now... you need to be building committment and soon the trust will come." He was talking to a WS, but I think I can use the same advice as a BS. Every day I am jumping back in forth in my thinking about should I stay or go. I can't expect my W to share herself with me because right now she doesn't trust me... she doesn't trust me to not be angry, to not hate her, to not be the guy she fell out of love with (although I thought that guy was pretty good), to not judge her, to not manipulate her... etc. and I don't trust her to call OM today or tomorrow... although I think she is doing an excellent job at resisting any temptation she has.
What I got from the advice is that I have made a personal committment to give 6 months to this recovery (and then I'll re-assess after that time). During this 6 months, I will be committed to doing the hard work, being patient, not expecting my W to stick to any boundaries that I set (until she gains trust), and know that I will be in this relationship irregardless of a good or bad day. There will be some hard days, but I think my mental process of jumping to the thought of "that's it, I'm out of here" is making my roller-coaster ride more crazy. If I can level out these thoughts, then I think the recovery may become a little smoother... hopefully.

It's worth a try and my M and my W is worth the efforts. Hopefully in 6 months, things will be going well enough to committ to another 6 months... and then committ for a lifetime.

Have a great day. Not too sure how much time I'll have for MB over the next few days, but I'll try and check in.

Shaden

Hi Shaden,
Yes, I too have definately decided I am drawing up a plan for 6 months with some specific details and outline my goals.
And I like how you say "reasses" at that time for an additional 6 months. I am not a very patitient girl and I like to get things "fixed" quickly. I have learned many times through God , I have to stop and listen to Him first and then take from that what he shows me. When I try to be in control and run every thing myself with out cheking with God, seems I am allways disatisfied. But when I ask Him or pray about something, I am able to see things in a different light and time frame. His will.
I work at my 4th grade daughters school as a Special Education Paraprofessional. My primary duties are working with a Kindergarten child with CP and wheelchair bound. I also assist the teacher with other students as needed. I also do lunchmonitoring, Playground, and study hall in the afternoon. I started this job the begining of the school year, (interviewed 3 days after D day on 2 hours of sleep in 3 days!!!)
I love this position as it is so rewarding and lots of fun most of the time. I wish I had gotten this job years ago!
Plus it pays a little more than my pt office job.
I managed to catch up on my sleep last night! I was so zonked out I never even woke up when H came home. He said he thought the dog was snoring but when he looked in on me it was ME!!!! OMG!!LOL!!! How nice!
He is in a very good mood to be home this weekend and not have to be on call for work. He wants to do alot of family oriented activities, go to the zoo, pumpkin carving and a bon fire tomorrow night. I am so looking forward to this. Plus he wants to find time for just us. Maybe on Sunday?
As much as I would like to talk about relationship stuff I am affraid to bring it up incase it will bring his mood down. what do you think?
If I don't hear from ya for awhile , I understand as we are all so busy! I am trying to meet others here by trying to read other posts and respond to them as well. I am always affraid to but into other posters though. we'll see what happens. LOL!
Hope you have a great Haloween weekend and that moving is going well.

Be well!

Working with kids and with challenged individuals is always rewarding... I have worked with many over the years in my job.

Enjoy your weekend... don't talk about the R if you don't need to. Let it come naturally, there's lots of time. (Easier said than done... I wish I could take my own advice).

Gotta go get more packing tape from the store.

Talk to you again soon.

Shaden

Hi Shaden,
I spent a lot of time reading, reading, & reading posts here last night. I went back into the archives and read some posts about when it is "safe" to ask the WS questions about the A. It was very enlightening! There are so many details I guess I do want to know, things that may be potential triggers for WH and maybe things I may want to avoid for my own piece of mind.
I already know somethings and it has helped , but the one question that has nagged at me since D day is when did it change from an EA to a PA? He has said the beggining of August. I want to know how, & where, & how many times they slept together.
Then the other thing I feel I must know about are all the things they talked about and how it progressed. I wanna know what kinds of things he talked about to her and how she responded. What made him feel he could get so close to her in this way?
And lastly, Hod did she react when he told her about telling me. What had she done the following days? Did she try to hang on?
I know he was still lying to me the week after about the A being over , but how long did it really take?
Writting this out to you has helped me figure out for the first time what I want to know. I read that making a list of the questions we BS's want to know is very helpful.
Some say to present the list to the WS and tell them "these are the questions I have . I may want to ask you some of them sometimes. I just want you to know this and see if you can answere them for honestly when I ask".
I really hope I can do this and that he will be 100% open and honest to me.
Another HUGE thing they advise is that make sure you are prepared yourself to accept the answer you receive!
That asking and receiving may be a recovery set back, but it will in the end, expose and destroy whatever secrets & fantasy the A had held for the WS. Everything can be out in the open. Just be prepared to deal with it!

I was on here for about 5 hours last night! Thank goodness the kids were having a sleep over and they were having fun enough that all I was needed for was to make pizzas and treats and set up a movie here and there!

I hope you are having a good weekend, remember to lift from the knees when your moving the heavy stuff!!!!

We are going to carve pumpkins tonight and have a bon fire I think! The weather here is perfect for pre halloween fun!

Be well, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Harmonie,

The first half of the move is over... we're moved out. We can't move into our new place for a couple of days so we have our stuff stored in three different places.

My older son picked up a 24 hour flu bug the day of the move (Saturday)... he was lying on an air mattress in a corner room watching tv and running to the washroom every 20 minutes while we moved. Last night, we came to stay at a hotel and my younger son got the flu. We celebrated his birthday with a pool party and took his friends home, then just after he got to bed it started. No sleep last night... then we were supposed to finish cleaning up the house and give the key to the new owners. My W stayed with him at the hotel and I went to clean up by myself. My MIL and SIL also had the flu last night so they couldn't help even if I wanted it.

So, tonight we are staying a second night at the hotel... we don't want to spread the bug to my brother's family. My younger son is still feeling sick so I am staying here with him while my W takes older son to meet his friends for trick-or-treating. She will have quite a bit of time on her own tonight and I'm feeling anxious.

I was believing that everything was ok... she was not in contact with OM, then the friends I just told about the A called me today to say that they saw OM driving in their neighbourhood (my new neighbourhood) last night. They felt he was checking out where our house is and want me to expose to OMW as soon as possible. They questioned if it is still going on. I thought there was NC, but how can I be sure. I thought I could tell with my W, but I also thought that she was incapable of having an A.

She "chased" me as a teenager for about 4 years before I even started to date her. I always thought that we both felt that we were "meant" to be together. I made so many sacrifices to try and make her happy, and this is what happens. I am struggling with the fact that I am almost sure that the same thing will happen again. Throughout her life she has not been able to "finish" or "stick with" anything. She moved from job to job, she tried different hobbies, besides her sister and Mom, she has never allowed a friend to remain close for an extended period of time... afraid of getting too close, she cannot decide on a career, she gets "bored" with everything... me included.

I'm feeling very low tonight, as you can tell. I've made a committment to myself to last for 6 months, but I'm not going to tell my W about this committment... it kind of just makes the whole R seem like a test. But already, I am wondering about this committment. Is it possible to love someone so much and not love them at all? I think about not being with her and I can't believe it could be right. But I think about her and I feel that every day I am falling more and more out of love, just thinking about what she has done... but then I look at her and my heart swells. I guess the same addictive attraction they talk about with the A is also part of the deal with the real M.

I really don't belive that she will be seeing OM tonight. I believe that she is past that, and that if she is still seeing him, she is an amazing actress... but I can't stand the fact that every time she is away from me I am wondering. Is this going to be our M from now on? Can I actually live like this? I will be exposing to OMW very soon... I'm working out a plan with my friends (they are pastors and also friends with OMW). He thinks that this has been a pattern with OM for the past 20 years... and he has spent a lot of time around OM. OM told my W she was the first... I would love to get proof that was a lie... it would definitely start to break up the fantasy world in my W's mind.

I vented long enough. Your questions from your last post were definitely information that I think should be known. You need to break apart the fantasy world and know the why and how of the A. This will help you heal and understand what went wrong. I hope I will eventually have these answers as well.

Hope your Halloween was extra spooky.

Shaden

Happy Halloween Shaden!
So sorry to hear the kids are sick! What a bummer for them!
And then to be cooped up in the hotel, I hope you and the wife don't catch it as well! Blech!

I totally understand your nervousness about your W having "time on her hands" if she'll be alone. I wonder every day when I leave the house for work what the H is doing, if he is staying home or if he is on the phone with OW.
We need to be careful because our imaginations can get the best of us as we sit and obsess about what if's! At least thats what happens to me! I am a great "what if'er"
But on the other hand , a small dose of "worry" I think keeps our radar up.
Until these WS's can help us feel at ease with their actions, I don't know when we'll start to relax! I too wonder how long or if I'll have to go through this for the rest of my life! I don't want my life to be like this!
My 6 month trial, error & observation period is also not going to be shared with my H. I decided I need to keep it under my hat. I do not want him to feel like I am pressuring him and want him to try to do the right things on his own, yet with my encouragment. But the scale is there, suspicion-vs-truth, love-vs-lies. My eyes are wide open, I hope enough to see what I need to see.
I hope yours are too. It is not fair we have to live like this, and it is easy to lose focus of our goal if we let this get to us.
I sure hope your friends were mistaken about seeing the OM in your new neighborhood. That is sick if it is true.
Again, I also relate to the fear of what if H is an incredible actor???? He has moments where he fills up the LB with huge deposits....but then I will wonder because of odd things he does or may say. But when he is good, if it is an act, I will be thoroughly shocked and amazed if I learn differently.
I am so astounded by all the similarities we Bs's have incommon.
Sorry if I sound to be rambling. I am tired from all the Halloween fun today!
We had the kindergarten kids party and parade at school, I dressed as a beauty pagent girl. LOL! I loved all the compliments the children gave me! Especially since I know that the childrens words are genuine! Not like adults who will say things to be kind... lol!
Then tonight, I went trick & treating with my youngest son. I got almost as much candy as he did! WooHoo! LOL!
But he is on a sugar rush ! AGH!!!He keeps sneaking more & more!
Take care and don't steal too much candy from the kids!!!
Be Well, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Harmonie,

sorry I haven't posted lately... been reading a little, but not much time this week.

We are now in our new house... still missing most of our furniture... that should be there tomorrow.

The kids are finally back to school from being sick.

Things have been much better since my last post. I was over my funk almost immediately after I posted. I am feeling anxious today for the first time in a few weeks. Probably it is because I know that I need to talk to my W this weekend about telling OMW. I don't know how that is going to go... but it needs to be done now. I'm expecting a poor reaction... mostly she will be crying about being too stressed out and can't handle it and why do I need to do this to her now. But I can't wait any longer. I think about the months that have gone by that I know what was going on and didn't tell OMW... and I feel like I also betrayed her. I'm sure OM has been sleeping with her and making like everything is great... they have booked a cruise... and she has no idea.

Hope your week has been good. Halloween is over...next up is Christmas. I have not even started to think about Christmas... and that is normally the highlight of my year. I'm the type that generally starts playing Christmas tunes in September.

Oh well... this year is going to be very different... I don't even feel like celebrating.

Talk to you again soon.

Shaden

Hi Shaden,

I guess we both have our work cut out for us this weekend!

I have been having a worse than usual week in dealing with my "bottled up" emotions. I have decided to confront H with my list of questions about the A.

I had initially told him that I was going to make this list and just give it to him, saying "these are things that have been on my mind and I may or may not want to know all the answers. You can write the answers back to me"... But the more I thought about my questions I realised that there are no "easy" answers and I want to hear them from his mouth. I want to see his face and body language.

I asked him today if we could so to a coffee shop on Saturday and sit and talk about the questions and he agreed to it.

I also said to him (again) that I need his total, complete openess and honesty. That I am tired of all my snooping and checking up on him and my paranoia. I said "I want my life back, my freedom"...H says he can understand that.

I then appologized for something I had done today that was a big LB in my opinion... he did not know it yet.
I had been snooping in his car and found a note book he wrote in. Since he has been destroying his writtings I felt complelled to see what I could see if anything. I found some random thoughts of his about wanting his freedom back and then found the imprint of a note he had written to OW. I tore the sheet out and took a piece of chalk across it to read what the note said. Needless to say I was upset and then wrote him a couple of sarcastic sentences on the page he wrote about wanting his freedom.
I told him that I wrote in his notebook, but was mad when I wrote what I did and then I tore it out in front of him. He asked to see it and promised he would not get mad. So I let him see it and he said he was glad he saw it cause he would have wondered what I meant otherwise.

So then I told him again that I need his total openess and honesty and I asked if there was anything at all that he needs to tell me about that he may have been lying to me about lately or not telling me the whole truth about. He was quiet for quite awhile, but then said "no, I really don't think so". I said I was glad for that, and explained that if I were to find out ANYTHING at all after all that we have been trying to accomplish it would probably destroy everything we have at this point. I did not mention the note I chalked in order to read as I did not want to reveal this yet. Maybe tomorrow at our "Q & A" session.

He decided at that point to get of the topic by focussing his attention on a neighbor of ours who was trying to clean his gutters or something and it looked pretty funny.
Then he had to leave for work and we parted on a good vibe.

I am anxious to go out for our talk tomorrow because I am so affraid of what I'll hear. I know it is going to hurt to hear what he says, and I told him that. But this is the only way I can get over my "imagination attacks" and bring his secrets with her into the open . Then I can deal with fact and then burry it in a 12 foot deep grave where it belongs.

Sorry, I did not mean to ramble so long. I get on a roll and snowball out of control.

I sure wish your wife could understand how hard all this is from your perspective. But then again, I wonder if, knowing the pain of the whole situation, and from a womans perspective, that may be a reason she is having hard time with telling the OMW? That she doesn't want her to go through thehurt? Or is she just not wanting to upset OM? Or is it the conflict avoidance? Or...D- all of the above? It is so sad that the OMW is oblivious and planning on their cruise all the while. What a shame.

I have to say I am at a total loss for what to expect this year at Christmas time! My son should be living back at home by then. He andH are not on good terms, DS despises him for what he did to me. DS says hewants to be here to "keep an eye on things" and beable to help take care of us if H should leave me. This is astounding coming from an almost 17 year old who for the past 3 years refused to allow me to "be his Mom". Long story there. Anyway, I worry there will be issues between them that could interfere with the progress I have been trying to make in both relationships. I anticipate an Alpha Male war.
Oh joy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I think that as long as H can leave the parenting of my DS#1 to just Me and accept my decisions we can get through this. And if that is the case I have to believe that I will have thegreatest gift this year I could ask for, Having BOTH my marriage and my son back and healing and going forward. I have waited a long time for this prayer to be answered!

I think that as the season draws closer you will find your spirit for Christmas returning. Your boys will help you find it if you look for it in them. And then there is God, of course!

Well, I have kept you long enough.
I wish you the best this weekend. Please keep me posted and I will as well.

Oh, BTW, I catch myself singing Silent Night in the middle of June! LOL!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Be Well,

Hi Harmonie,

I think it's going to be a "Silent Night" for me tonight.

We moved in the furniture today and then after everyone left, my W was sitting down talking to me in our new living room and I said that I wanted to talk to her about something. I asked if now was a good time or after her bath (she was just about to go and get one). She never wants to talk at night (although, if her or her Mom was upset, she would sit with her and talk until 3 in the morning) and there is never any other time to talk without interuptions. But today, the kids were downstairs watching a movie.

I told my W that 2 weeks ago, when I thought our M was over, that I told my parents and spoke to our friends (pastors) for advice and help. Told her I plan to speak to OMW... that it is important as we all know and she has been in the dark for months. I told her that our friends had guessed what was going on and they are worried that OM is still in fantasy land.

Her response was fairly normal... she was concerned with the fact that our friends knew about it while helping us move and how my parents think about her.
I spoke to her a second time and she is calling me controlling... am I happy that I am ruining her life. That I am just wanting to do this to hurt her... etc. etc.

It was one of the hardest things I have ever done to sit there and calmly listen. I just wanted to scream "Don't you get it... you did this!". I hope that this attitude is just the regular reaction for this situation and that she changes... because I do not want to live the rest of my life with such a spoiled, selfish person. I cannot believe that she would be blaming me for this... but that is what I expected because of reading this site. I will go ahead with the next step, but this is going to be extremely hard.

How did your talk go? Did you get the chance to ask your questions? Did you feel he was honest with his answers?

I'm hoping to hear some good news from you.

Take care.

Shaden