Hi Harmonie,

Plan A is tiring and often seems unfair as our own "takers" scream for justice, fairness, and our needs met. I have wanted to give up so many times, but I keep coming back to a couple of thoughts... 1) that I owe it to myself to give every last ounce of strength to making this work... that giving up is just not an option for me at this point. and 2) that I do beleive my W is worth the pain and suffering, and when things are improved, she will realize how valuable our love is because I was able to stand by her through this... all the other men in her life (including OM) have rejected her, hurt her, or left her... I don't want to be added to that list.

Now, in saying this, you need to decide on your own what your M is worth. If you cannot imagine your H being the H that you want and need, then maybe it is not worth it... but if you can picture a better life with him... the one that you dreamed of when you M'd him, then maybe the hard work is worth it. The work will never be a waste, as you will learn a lot more about yourself in the process.

Do Plan A for yourself... not for him.

Shaden

Shaden,
You are right. My taker has been tryingto come out full force! I have been losing my perspective in Plan A as well.
Before I found the MB site, I had instinctively been doing the things recommended in Plan A... Making myself a better person, improving the things I could etc....
I think though with all the stress that has been building up in me and around me, I lost my true focus. The triggers have been so strong and I have been giving the negativity of past events power!
I wanted to see more from my H in the way of his recovery, efforts toward making US stronger. I was desperate for more reassurance from him, so I started behaving more desperately rather than pushing myself to be more confident.
The long holiday weekend has been wonderful for us. H is showing me more affection and reassuring me.
There are still triggers for me, but I am working hard at how I deal with them and trying hard not to let them have power over me.
We had a revealing talk one day last week where H told me he was taking it slow with us, he wants to build things up slowly. I expressed to him that I felt he was not as aware of my needs as I needed him to be and he knows I am not very good at waiting patiently for responses and such. I told him I felt like I was giving so much at the cost of my own strength and focus and well being and I feared he was really not in it with me. (does this make any sense?)
He reassured me he would not be here if he was not in this for real and that he will try more to be more expresive to me. He said that for so long I did not take his expressions of affection or recieve his compliments well, I would respond by blowing them off as not being sincere.
I had to explian to him that I have had a hard time with that as I have such poor self esteem and if I couldn't see myself as he did then what he said to compliment me was not true in my eyes. He told me that hurt him very deeply and so he gave up.
I explianed that since I have gone back to work and have been "out in the world", losing some weight, my self esteem has grown and I have been feeling better about myself (except when it comes to the A)..it is easier now to accept compliments from him. I also pointed out that over the summer, while he was chosing to pay attention to the OW, he did NOT see the changes I was going through and since our work schedules over lapped he only saw me on the weekends. But he was in a fog and picking fights with me rather than seeing me. He agreed that was a true assesment of the sitch.

I'm sorry , I think I am rambling here... there has been so much I have wanted to write about from what we have been going through here and I have not had time or mental focus when things were bad for me.
One thing though I have observed is how crazy things can be one day and then, after we can finally talk about it things are just that much better. Misconceptions are cleared up, hurts have been revealed and talked about to bring understanding and healing.
Now tomorrow being Monday, the start of a new week, I have to reinforce the positive progress we have made. Not let my fears, insecurities, and trigers get me down through out the week. I guess it is easier for me when we are together, but when he leaves for work each day I lose a little bit of that strength I have gained.

I have to get running and try to whip the house in to shape! With kids home for 4 days straight youd think we were hit by an earth quake! Then again I guess you could say kids being home on break IS a natural disaster!

Sorry about all the rambling, I hope I was making some sense.

Oh, My friends daughters funeral is on Wednesday. H automaticly offered to take some hours off from work to go with me, but THAT would mean he stays late... he knows I don't like that idea...working into OW's shift.
Oh and I have have yet to write about something regarding OW!.... I will do that in another post later as I do have to run. But it was huge.

Thanks for letting me ramble. I appreciate your support, and hope all is well with you and W.

Hi Harmonie,

How are things?

I haven't been on here very much the past week or so... I found that I was obsessing too much and thinking about things... I wanted to give my mind a rest and concentrate on my sons, work, getting ready for Christmas, etc.

How's your H doing? Is he managing his work schedule to stay off the late shift with OW? How was the funeral? that must have been a hard one to go to... any funeral is hard, but someone so young is terrible.

I've got to run... my younger son has a hockey game starting in less than an hour and I've been lazing around all morning... not even showered. Atleast the arena is only about 5 minutes away. I'll check back later.

Take care.

Shaden

Well HI Stranger! LOL!
It is great to see ya around ! I thought maybe I lost my one/ONLY regular Pal here that I talk to??!!

I hope you are doing well? I can understand yur need to break from reading here... I too get overwhelmed some days when I read things here! However lately, I find myself finding random topics that somewhere in the thread I find something that can reinforce or inspire me!!! That is awsome!

Last week was NUTS!

The day of the funeral I ended up needing to bring my DD#1 to the hospital to have her appendix removed! She had gotten sick the day before and by Wed am I realised she did NOT have a simple flu bug!
Before we took her in to the Hospital, the Dr. said it would be all right to stop in at the funeral to breifly pay our respects to My Friend and his daughter. THAT was heart wrenching!
Then, we flew over to the Hospital where we spent tthe day waiting for DD's CT scan and then her surgery.
Everything went very well! She was in the H till Friday and we brought her home. She is doing great and even wants to go to school for 1/2 the day today!

Now behind the scenes of the immediate drama here, the roller coaster ride with my H continued. Here is what happened...
On Mon & Tue DD#1 did not have school due to conferences. But on Tuesday as I said she became ill, H was very aggitated by this because she had been out of school since 11-24 due to getting hurt when she went snowboarding on 11-23, then having the Holiday off for school. So when she became sick it was as if he were ticked off at her for it! It seemed that it was not so much because she was sick, rather because she would be home and he would not have his "privacy" with no kids here?!? He got up Tuesday am VERY crabby and made a huge issue of DD sleeping on the couch in the living room "spreading her cold to everyone in the house" THEN he got PO'd cause there were a FEW dishes soaking in the sink instead of being loaded in the dishwasher (kitchen clean up is normaly DD's job)... He startedbanging and slamming dishes in to the dishwasher, slamming the cupboard doors and barking at DD for being on the couch! Meanwhile I was in the bathroom getting ready for work wondering what the "H" was going on?!?
The next thing I hear is DD crying in my bedroom and she tells me that as she got up to walk in to tell me she was in alot of pain she visually blacked out and fell down in the hallway, that my H came out of the kitchen and saw her on the floor and gave her a dirty look and did not even help her up or ask what happened!!!!!!
I was furious!!!! I had DD lay down in my bed and I asked her questions about her symptoms and then felt around her stomach and determined shewas probably having an appendicitis and NOT the flu. I decided then I was not going into work and called the DR's office to get her in.
H comes walking into the bedroom and SNAPS at us " what is she doing in our bed !!!" I remained calm though I wanted to whack him upside the head with a reality brick! I explained what was going on and that I was going to bring her into the DR. He was acting like such an A$$!!!
It wasn't until we came back from the DR and told him we needed to get her to the hospital that he started to behave like a human being again!!!! In his mind I believe he was thinking that DD was just over dramatizing being sick! But his behaivior was OUT OF LINE!
Going to the hospital had huge triggers for me due to when I was there with DS#2 back in August for his broken arm when he needed to have surgery on that. That was 3 days before D-day and he was an incredible jerk to me then, too.

Anyway, everything has been up hill since last Wed. I had a talk wit H about the triggers I had about the hospital, and about his behaivior. He was acting very FOGGY and frustrated last WED. I told him that had me very worked up and upset,too. Hewasirritated thatIagain brought up the Aand his behaivior, but I said itwas not my intent to rub his nose in this, but that I needed to express my feelings and bring closure to the sitch. He also confirmed how he would rather any talk of the A and his wrong doings would go away butthat "that would only happen in a perfect world". I reiterated that we are NOT brushing these things under the rug and until we resolve each thing as it comes. Like Pep says "the floggins will continue till moral improves"!! LOL

I have to get ready for work now, but I have so much "good" stuff to report too! The last 72 hours have been great with H... go figure... the rollercoaster certainly does not disappoint with the ups and downs!!!!
I'll be back this evening or sooner if I get the time!

Thanks for checking in Shaden, and being here to talk with! Friends here have been hard to come by for me.

Be Well!!!!!

Hey there,

Wow... when it rains...

I hope your H felt like a shmuck after the way he treated DD. I know that kids will manipulate and learn to get their own way and parents have to try and figure this out... but a parent has to always keep their own emotions out of it. I've been guilty of getting mad at my older son, who tends to be very sensitive, and wanting him to "toughen up"... but I've been learning more recently that my reactions to him are probably not "toughening him up", but rather teaching him to just hold in his emotions and not trust me to communicate with me.

How's your friend doing? I would expect that the mourning process will be difficult. Our employee who lost her 20 year old in a car accident in Nov, wanted to come back to work almost right away to keep her mind off of it. I had to send the district manager to talk to her, though, because she brought a lot of anger back to work. We wanted to see if she needed to be off work longer. I've read some posts on here which describe dealing with an A as being as difficult or more difficult than losing a child... but I find that so hard to believe. I understand they say that the betrayal from someone you trust so implicitly is hard to get past, but there is a possibility for reconciliation and forgiveness with an A. When you lose a child, it is over.

I'm looking forward to hearing about the good stuff. It is so hard trying to figure things out on a daily basis. I must admit that things with my W and I seem to be going very well... but it is almost as if I am looking for a problem. My mind keeps triggering... which sometimes I turn off right away, but sometimes I dwell on the thought and it turns my mood very negative and self-pitying. My W can be doing fine and then sees me in this state and it ruins the mood. This isn't happening often, but it happens.

I look at our past, and my mind tells me this ain't over... it will happen again, and why am I here. The whole idea of her being bored with me because I'm a "good guy" bothers me. So, should I start refusing to help out around the house or do things my own way??? No... I think the difference is that behind the "good acts" was a neediness which came through. If my W senses that I am doing the good acts just because... and I could easily be just as happy not doing them, then I think the problem goes away.

My only concern is, if I am able to learn how to put aside the neediness, will the "rules" change again in another few years... with another reason for her straying?

But, as I said, things are going well. She is initiating affection and getting back to her old self. We aren't talking a lot about the A, but she is not defensive when it does come up. She still does not have a job and I am starting to get worried about that... but we'll figure it out. I still feel that the meeting of needs is unbalanced... that she doesn't look for what my needs are, but this will improve over time. She is still battling depression and will still be going to IC to delve into her past... but I think I will have to push this as she will probably let it slide.

My MIL is still struggling financially... but she could be ok if she would make some priority changes. She is upset that she doesn't have money to buy Christmas gifts... so each of the three daughters are giving her money to atleast buy for the grandchildren. I also put extra into an envelope for her to get gifts for her daughters (I still continue to be the "good guy"). Then she is over for dinner yesterday and I hear her say to my W, "when are we going to get our nails done"? I just want to beat my head against the wall. I realize this is important to women... but sometimes decisions have to be made.

I should finish up my work so I can get home. I'm away the next couple of days... I have 3 Christmas parties over the next 3 nights in 3 cities. Nothing exciting... as I work for The Salvation Army, their Christmas parties do not include alcahol... just a dinner, I give out some awards, and we go home... or some of them go off on their own to a bar.

Talk to you again soon.

BTW... did your DS#1 come home yet?

Shaden

Thanks for the update Shaden and Harmonie. Glad to see that neither of you are in "crisis" anymore and are getting along as best you can.

Harmonie, I think you did a really good job of letting H know you were not bashing him with the affair again but yet expressing your feelings. That may really have been a precursor towards him being better lately.

Take care both of you.

Mr. Wondering

Hi Wondering & Shaden,
When I posted last I was wanting to share something fabulous that H had done forme. He made me feel so special, bought me a bouquet of a favorite flower of mine to remind us of a conversation we had and an agreement we came to about a task we need to do. He also bought me a 3 pack of delicious chap sticks with a case and clip to hang on my ID tag so I would not lose it. I was so touched by his thoughtfulness and his excitement in giving me these tokens of affection.

Sadley a good thing doesn't last long for us. He is behaiving totally cold, dark, crabby.... picking fights, broke the door on the computer desk this morning when he slammed it shut because I forgot to shut down the computter. Broke the faucet in the kitchen sink last week cause there were 3 bowls and 2 glasses sitting over night to soak....yet later that day he left all the dishes from lunch and breakfast...as he ALWAYS does!
I am not good at reverse babble, I tried but I get too confused knowing what to say when he starts twisting things around on me.
My son is coming home on Wednesday morning and there a million things to get done to make a room for him, move the 2 girls into a room together (which they don't want to do and H is backing them up on that) I have all the household chores as always (got into a fight about that today about his lack of responsibility, I stayed calm and spoke softly and did not speak anything but the facts, but he twisted it around to say I am finger pointing, he is the one who AGREED to do certain chores but STILL neglects to do them, he says I HAVE TO REMIND HIM!)
Plus I am STILL juggling the delinquent bills, taking care of our childrens needs, One kid has been sick with a cold for the past 5 days home from school and daughter is still on the mend from her appendix, homework, conferences and I have yet to decorate for Christmas ( my favorite time of year, he hates it).
He sleeps, plays video games, eats and goes to work.

I am tired of PLAN A!!!!! I am loosing my desire and my taker has had ENOUGH! I am tired of trying not to LB!!! I wanna LB him right over his pointy lil head!!!! I am tired of the same old issues and trying to change things for the better but not seeing him do anything towards making an effort to change his ways or improve our marriage!!!! I am tired of the lack of communication between us, the way he tries to jusify his actions or lack of action, and the way he twists and scews the truth. I am tired of letting my guard down, letting myself become vulnerable and every other week have my heart break a little more.

I have tried to justify his actions by acknowledging that he has been working everyday for the last 2 weeks straight and will be for the next 2 weeks as well. I can verify this by the size of his pay checks and the hours logged on them.
But I work 2 jobs AND run my household!!!! I am tired too! I am giving him all the love and attention in everyway I possibly can! I go out of my way to make a few minutes here and there for just him only to have him blow me off while he busys himself eating lunch before he has to leave for work. I have asked him countless times to PLEASE be ready for work before I get home so we can spend the 45 minutes before he leaves together. He has only tried to do it a few times at best.

Tomorrow is his company Christmas party. It will be the only time we have had in the last month or 2 to get out and do anything together with out the family. Since it is a free thing to do we are going to go.... we can't afford a night out to do anything else.

I don't know what I am doing or going to do.... I keep asking myself "how much am I willing to put up with?"
"What do I want in life and does it mean compromising my feelings and emotional well being just to hang on to the few meager crumbs he thows me?"

I told myself I was giving him 6 months to see if he made any visible efforts on his part to change his part in our marriage. Since D-day it has been 3 1/2 months. Everytime I THINK I see an improvment a few days later a huge red flag starts to rise or I start to "smell something fishy".

How do I do this????? What do I do with this????

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Hi Harmonie,

sorry to hear that everything turned back so quickly again.

I wish I could just say hang in there it will be ok, or just leave him, it's the right thing to do. Unfortunately,, I can't give either advice.

... but I can ask some questions.

When you married your H, how did you feel about him?
What were his strengths back then?
What attracted you to him?
Does he still have these strengths? Is he still showing them if he does?
Has some of these same strengths, the things that attracted you to him, now seem like a "weakness"? (eg... a "free spirit" may now seem immature and irresponsible).
Do you "need" to be married to him for your own happiness?
Can you imagine feeling about him in the future the same as you did when you first married?
What are you learning about yourself from the challenges you are going through?
What can you change in yourself that will help your perception of him?
What can you change in your situation that will make you happier and more at peace with yourself?
Why are you with him now?
What are your beliefs about marriage?

I'm sure there are a lot more questions I could give you... but these are some of the questions I asked myself during the days that I felt like giving up. Your solution may come as you answer these questions.

Let me know how your doing.

Shaden

When you married your H, how did you feel about him?
I was in Love and had nothing but hope for the future together. I did see him as a "diamond in the rough" with loads of potential.

What were his strengths back then?
He was hard working, devoted, loyal, romantic, attractive

]What attracted you to him?
His looks, his strength, his energy, and things listed above.[/u]

Does he still have these strengths?
Everything accept the Loyalty or honesty part.

Is he still showing them if he does?
He is trying in some ways, some qualitys are starting to come back.

Has some of these same strengths, the things that attracted you to him, now seem like a "weakness"? (eg... a "free spirit" may now seem immature and irresponsible).
Yes, I did not list his "freespirit" but that was an attraction and has become a problem sometimes.

Do you "need" to be married to him for your own happiness?
Right now, financially, yes...... hate saying that. Emotionally... It would/may be easier if I wasn't with him.

Can you imagine feeling about him in the future the same as you did when you first married?
I still do most of the time.... when I can let go of the painful stuff of the past.

What are you learning about yourself from the challenges you are going through?
That I can take alot of crap from people and still hang in the game. I am strong when I feel empowered, but I am a puddle of weakness when I am not in control of ME.

What can you change in yourself that will help your perception of him?
I am trying to learn to choose my battles and not sweat the small stuff. I am learning to slow down, be more observant and be more attentive.

What can you change in your situation that will make you happier and more at peace with yourself?
Find time for myself to be ME again, without feeling guilty or feeling fearful that if I do for myself he will wander away from me again.

Why are you with him now? I Love Him. I truely want my marriage to be what I have believed it could be from the beginning. I am not ready to abandon ship.

What are your beliefs about marriage?
Marriage is a vow to another to love, honor and cherish till death, through sickness and health, good times and bad....My own belief was that I would never marry if I had the slightest doubt and it was only a once in a life time thing for me. I chose this man to marry after 1 1/2 years of "making sure". I believed in him then and still have hope for him & I now. Somedays I wonder, but I have to step back and remind myself this is a marriage in progress until there is an absolute sign that it is no longer. Either by death or he "leaves me" again. That will be the end.

Hi Harmonie,

Good to see you back.

I hope my questions weren't looked at as too personal or prying... it was the only thing I could think of to try and help. I don't have a lot of answers, yet, to any of this... only know how I answer these same questions.

A couple of things... I just read a couple of days ago (I'm trying to remember where it was from) that often women marry men seeing their "potential" and believe they are going to be so much better once they "fix" them. But, possibly, the man you saw is the man you are getting... or atleast, the potential doesn't always work out in the time frame or manner in which you imagined. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with this idea... I just thought it was interesting that I just read about it and you answered the same thing to question #1.

I have also read that the reason a marriage is for life, is because it takes our whole lives to "get it right"... to learn how to treat your spouse and fulfill their needs... which, of course, are constantly changing throughout life.

I am reading into your answers that you have made your decision not to give up. Am I right? I'm sure the daily rollercoaster is difficult, but we also know that anything worth having is that much better when we have had to sacrifice and fight hard to get it.

One note from an earlier post... you mentioned your daughters had to share a room to allow a room for your returning son. I don't imagine you had a lot of options... but try and see how this decision probably has made even more resentment in the house. Your daughters are now angry with their brother coming home and with you. He is your prodigal son returned to get the best "coat" and "fattest calf". I can see how this would make it uncomfortable for the rest of the family. Did you discuss the solution with your H or decide on your own? Not an easy sich, I'm sure and I don't know how I would have handled it.

Don't be a stranger. I'll check back on you soon.

Shaden

Hi Shaden,
No you are not prying at all. I appreciated the questions as it gave me a focused way to think of what I am doing. Putting it down in print helped me to think about these things more clearly.

H & I have had some really good heart to heart talks the past few days that have left me feeling a bit more secure and trusting of his intentions. I am feeling and hearing from him some remorse over his bad choices, things from the past. And he is showing me affection in little ways (huge to me), like one day he drove up to the park where I take my 15 minute break from work to bring me my I.D. tag and a hot mug of cappacino, to surprise me. He knew I had overslept that morning and in my hurry had no time for my coffee and forgot my tag.

Yesterday on the way to the airport to pick up my son, we talked about everything from old relationships, our relationship, the "A", and our expectations of howto deal with DS. One thing he said was that when it came to other relationships he had been in (only 2 serious ones) He felt that he could "grow" to love the person but that he didn't at the time the girl would become serious. But that with me, he didn't feel that way. He knew I was "the one" right from the day we met. Which is something he has said before, but never that way. Now I also have to keep in mind that he was quite young when we met! He was almost 22! |I had just turned 30! Not like he had a lot of life experience under his belt! The more I think about that point it is clearer to me how we came to be in the roles we are in, in this marriage! I have all ways made it easy for him to take very little responsibilty for things, and he made it easy for me to be "in charge" of everything! |Something I have grown to strongly resent in our marriage over the last 6 years!
Huge epiphany! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Neither H nor I had great role models on how to do the marriage and parenting thing, but we both knew what we did and didn't want it to be like. We just have had a horrible time of communicating, goal setting, planning, being pro-active instead of re-active. Then add to this mix the odd work shifts, his alcoholism, raising children and everything else life can throw our way.....
I have always been amazed that we had made it this far in our marriage like this.... till this summer.
Both of us ready to call it quits, yet not even communicating about THAT!

It is sad that the catalyst had to be the "A", the "rock bottom" of our marriage. It woke us both up, to the reality of what our marriage had become. Then we had to determine whether or not we could or wanted to try to save what we thought had alread died. I knew right away I did not want to end my marriage to this man. I believe he is now sufficiently out of the fog now that he realises it too. His actions speak louder than words these last 2 weeks.

However, I know that we are not out of the woods yet! There is so much to work on and the roller coaster ride, I am sure is still running! We just seem to be on a level patch right now. Entering the TRUE recovery stage.

I have been thinking strongly again about getting both of us back into a MC so we can learn better communication strategies. I am tiring of trying to be the MC and the "counslee". Plus now with the addition of DS#1 back home, there WILL be issues.... I need to be proactive when these things come up. I have assked H to step back from trying to parent ds#1, just try to reestablish some respect between themselves. He agrees, but I can already see his frustration and his getting worked up over small issues like telephone use, curfews, and things he speculates about that have not even happened! That sort of thing is like a time bomb ticking..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Oh and about what you said about women marrying men seeing potential or trying to fix or save them... I think I am "guilty" of that to a degree, after we married. But when I say I saw his potential when we first met, I meant that I reflected back to when I was 19 and in a 4 year relationship with a young man who was 21 when we met. This man was a responsible, hard working, family oriented type. H impressed me as being similar to this other man from years ago, with one difference, H was much better at showering me with attention and romance. So I thought, "so what if he is 8 1/2 years younger than me, he has all those qualities of past guy and more, he can only get better with age, right?" .... Well, it has taken a long while and the road has had it's share of up's and downs as I have said. My intent was never to change HIM but to see him grow as a person and with me. That was /is the potential I meant. He has said , too, at times that if he had not married me and we had never met, he doesn't know what he would have done with his life as he wasn't really on a straight & narrow or productive, positive path... meaning his former drug and alcohol use.

Well Shaden... ya got me on a roll tonight!!!!! LOL!
HEY.... Shaden...(zzzzzzz) Wake up!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I didn't mean to put you to sleep!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sorry for such a ramble as always.... Thankyou though as always for taking the time to "listen" and for your support. I appreciate the questions cause they really did get me thinking as you can see!

I hope you can answer back soon and comment, as well as update me on YOUR sitch! I have been keeping you and your family in my prayers for recovery.

Be well,

Hi Harmonie,

No, I didn't fall asleep reading, although I could probably fall asleep easily this week... we've been staying up late every night watching the 4th season of 24. We are both addicted.

So your son is home now. How is he doing? Does it feel awkward or natural? I'm sure he's happy to be there for Christmas with the family.

It's hard to imagine getting to the point of wanting to call it quits with the marriage. You said that you both felt this way but couldn't even talk about it. When I look back on my marriage pre-A, I knew there were problems, but I just kept trying harder to be a better husband... which meant I was smothering her. But 5 years before that I wasn't giving enough attention. The rules changed. But I never seriously felt like I didn't want to be m'd. It came as such a huge shock when I found out about the A. I'm sure it does to everyone, but often there is probably warning signs, or escalating problems... we were not fighting, everything seemed fine... or atleast no different than any other time.

Finding a good MC is a good idea. You need to interview them and make sure you are comfortable. We are second-guessing our choice... she's pretty good, but it's a second job for her so she's never prepared... never makes notes and doesn't remember what was discussed prior. There is no plan with her... just a discussion session.

You are also right about the A being a wake up call. It really can make things better if we can find a way to put what happened behind us. If you read my other thread, you will see that I've hit a period of resentment. I'm near the 6 month mark, and this is apparently normal at this point. But I'm afraid it will set us back from the progress we've made. Hopefully this step back will mean greater steps forward after.

OMW came by my work again today with OM. They were dropping off a book I loaned her... and she gave me a card... stating again what a great person I am and that she is praying that things will work out for me. I get more compliments from her than from my W. I warned OM that we might attend our church on Christmas Eve... OMW said there won't be a scene (she hasn't yet spoke with my W). I hope not... especially at Christmas.

Now who's snoring?

Talk to you again, soon.

Shaden

PS... we were almost going to be coming to your neck of the woods... my older son was supposed to have a hockey tournament in Minnesota in February. But this didn't pan out, we are instead going to Fargo in January. My W is happy to go shopping at the American stores.

Good Morning Shaden,
No I'm not snoring, just waking up!

Your wife and I have something in common.... I like shopping at American Stores, too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Your MC sounds very bad, IMHO, Just like the goof we were seeing. He did take notes, always reviewed when we came in, however, then it was just a short time left for discussion. He told me he had a treatment plan, but never did tell us after 3 more sessions. He'd always say he could write books on the subject of affairs and marriages, yet had never heard of the Harleys books.
Interesting thing too, was every time we had a session coming up, H wass on BEST behaivior...so this made it hard to approach any of our "bad" issues. Like 'why stir up a hornets nest" when we are getting along? The last time we saw the guy was on our 10 year wedding anniversary, Oct. 6th.

When I last wrote I was so happy that I felt we were on an even slope of the "ride". Of course I was in for another BUMP Friday.
H and I have an agreement that he will ALWAYS call me when he is ready to leave work. That is almost always at 12:34 am. IF he ends up not being able to leave he will call back and let me know and then call again when he is ready to go.
Very bothersome as I am sleeping, yet it is the only way I DO get any sleep or I'd be waiting up every night.

He has always followed this request until Friday. I woke up around 1:00 am and checked the caller ID to see if I had missed his call, only to see he had not yet called. I was not to happy and ended up sleeping lightly off and on till he walked in the door at 2:45 am.

He approached me very sweetly and appologetically and proceeded to tell me about how he had finished up work a "little early" and did not call me as he wanted to surprise me by getting home earlier.

Then as he was driving home he hit an icy patch on the freeway and slid into a ditch where he spent the next hour or so trying to get out. That finally a guy in a truck came by and pulled him out. Says he asked the guy if he had a cell phone to call home but guy says the battery was dead.

I was not buying this story from the get go, but I told H I was glad he was alright and that he got out ok. Then I rolled over and fought to go back to sleep. H was wanting to cuddle with me but due to my cold, coughing and such, I was able to get him to "back off" and go to his own side of the bed. I did NOT want him near me as I was PI$$ed and just wanted to go back to sleep.

The next morning as I was waking up and writting in my journal, I replayed the whole thing he told me. The one thing that really jumped out at me was H saying he wanted to "Surprise" me by coming home a bit early. That made NO SENSE what so ever.

He KNOWS I am sleeping when he gets home and I have to wake up at 6 for work (Friday day)It is not like I am going to wake up and hang out with him when he got home or "anything" else. Now if it were the weekend, like last night, I could see where his "surprise" would make sense as I usually do wait up for him.

His getting off when he says he did would really only be a fifteen minute difference to when he'd "normally" get home anyway. What "Surprise" is that I wonder????

So, as I sit there writting, thinking, and the coffeee is waking up my brain cells 1 by 1, My imagination starts to conjure up it's own twist to what may REALLY have happened.

H had told me a couple days ago that OW had not been at work and the "rumor" was that she was ill and throwing up blood. He told me he was concerned and had considered calling her. I said "well that is really none of your concern and I am sure you will hear all about it when she does get back to work".

I am thinking that he got out of work early, maybe even earlier than he had told me, went to see her. That would make sense as to why he REALLY didn't call me when he was ready to leave. The time would show on the caller ID. So then, he goes to see her, and due to the amount of time he was gone, he conjures up this story about getting stuck in the ditch to cover his sorry [censored].

Oh and one other thing he had said to me seemed suspicious, he had asked me if I had called his work when I realised he did not call me. Stupid me, I didn't. If I had maybe that would have blown his story?

My imaginations' version of this makes perfect sense to me. So before I leave for work (Friday am) I GENTLY and carefully confront him with this scenario of mine and he goes totally DARK on me. He is obviously angry that I am questioning his story. I tell him I truley DO want to believe him and that it bothers me that I can't. He once again responds with his usual line "that's understandable".

But he does absolutely nothing to reassure me otherwise, defend himself or to try to prove anything to me. I say that I feel funny about this , it would be nice if he could reassure me by saying something like "you are getting this all wrong and I am telling you the truth"
To which he says "you are getting this all wrong".... nothing else.

So, I tell him I love him, give him a kiss and leave for work.

When I get home from work he is trying to fix our snow blower and does not acknowledge the kiss I give him and ignores me as I try to engage him in conversation. So I go in the house and play with the dog. He comes in, makes his lunch and as he is ready to leave tells me he is going to work over time this weekend.

I tell him I really wish he'd stay home so we could go to my aunts annual Family Christmas party Saturday together. He gets angry and reminds me how we need the $$. I follow him to the car and I quietly say "what good will the $$ be if there is no family here to support." He asks me "what do you want me to do?" I say "do what you have to do"... then He blows me a kiss goodbye and drives off.

So Last night, he calls when he is ready to leave work, but I apparently was so sound asleep that I did not hear the phone ring till the 10th time he called! Then when he got home I could barely wake up enough to acknowledge his waking me up to say he was there!

He is on call this weekend, which means that if something were to break down he'd go into fix it, but if he goes in to work anyway for OT, he makes double pay. But as I wake up this morning the phone rings and work needs him to come in ASAP.

It is at that point he decides he is NOT going to work the OT shift and he'll be home as soon as he is done fixing the breakdown at work.

So I am happy that he will be here. Sort of.

I had resigned myself to accepting him not being home and had planned my day and evening to doing things that I need to get done and after the Aunts party I was going to go to my friends garage afterwards where we have "music" parties.

I have a lot of friends who are musicians and we "jam" , do Kareoke, dance and have a great time. Plus I want to bring my son over so I can watch him play as I have not seen him play in over a year.

I tell Husband of my plans before he left for work and his face got all "cranky" looking again. I said "well this is what I had planned as you said you were not going to be home. I want/need a night out with friends."

Now he has always enjoyed going over there in the past, but since the "A" it has been a little different. He says he dosen't care what others think of him, and knows my friends are very supportive of US and still care about him as well. However he is starting to act very indifferent towards them as I think he knows they are actually supportive of ME and what ever I have decided to do in my marriage.

They want to see Me happy and make sure that I am not going to be hurt by him again. I think maybe he feels like a bug under a micro scope around them now, maybe.

Any ways, that's where I am at as of this morning. Running the gamet of emotions and feeling like a Yo-Yo.

Any input about H getting stuck in the ditch thing?????

Do YOU think I am wrong for doubting his story?

Or do I have an over active imagination?

Once again, sorry this is so long. My mom has always said I don't know how to get to the point. But I just think the details are the point.

Hope you are having a great weekend and that you guys win your tournament!!!!! Go Team!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi Harmonie,

It's hard to tell if you have an over imagination or not.

Many on here would say that if there is any kind of smell to the story, then don't believe it... the WS needs to prove themselves to you.

I feel slightly different in that the WS is still human. They want to make it up to you and realize they made a huge mistake, but they also don't want to be in "prison" for the rest of their lives jumping through hoops to make it up to you. Is this right or wrong... I can't say... I guess it depends on each individual person. They think... at what point will my S start trusting me again. They need the trust for their own esteem and without it they will continue to doubt whether they want the marriage or not.

They are risking staying in the M (as long as they have stopped contact and not being a cakeeater), as they know they have to make up for what they did and are never sure they will be happy again because of it. We need to risk trusting... and by doing so, the WS may start to love again and be happy again in the M... rather than resentfull of the (self-inflicted) prison they are in. They know they caused it, but it was caused because they want to be happy. They will try to make amends, because it is right, but eventually they will decide it's not worth it.

I've read the WS rules... that they should be doing everything in their power to make amends... but I don't believe this is realistic. The WS that do this, I believe most are just putting in their "time"... that's what OM in our sich is doing... thinking he will be out of the hotwater very soon... so it can be gotten over and forgotten. (Not all... I believe some are extremely remorseful and do decide they have to do whatever it takes). But many, even though they are remorseful and feel sorry, still want to be happy and still have doubts about the M... the same doubts that got them into the situation to begin with... and they, like us, have some good days and bad days. Some days they are trying hard to make amends and some days their taker takes over again and they just want it over with and to be happy.

I believe the BS has to work just as hard if there is to be a strong recovery. The BS has to show trust and forgiveness (when they are ready), but even when they have no guarantee... none of us have a guarantee. I believe there is a possibility my W will have another A... because of her past issues. But I chose to try for a full recovery and will not be afraid of this. My part is to give trust and respect back to my W as quickly as I can. There are days when I don't and she hates those days... but I think we are moving forward as well as we are because I have given a lot of trust back.

I can't say if your H should be trusted or if this situation is fishy. You need to make a choice... if you do not trust him, that's ok... but he needs to know that and together a decision must be made how to deal with that... either he understands and boundaries and groundrules are set in place until you can trust, or he says he can't live with that and a separation happens.

If you are able to give trust... then give it... even though it is a risk. But I think it is a mistake to trust today but not tomorrow and then again the next day. I'm sure I did this some times during our recovery, but I am conscious of ensuring this happens as little as possible. Giving trust is more about respect and love. By trusting your H, it does not change the fact of whether or not he is still seeing OW... and if he is, you will eventually find out. If he isn't, this trust will help your R a lot, IMO... but also, if he isn't and you continue to not trust... this could be the factor that drives him back to OW.

I'm not sure I've made a lot of sense... and once again, my thinking is very different from many on this forum. I am not necessarily right... just giving my opinion.

Regardless of what you do, every day in the future is a risk in so many ways. We can't live in fear... but the fear is what will drive out the love.

Have faith... in yourself and in God. Your H may or may not love you more because of it... but you will become a stronger person for it.

BTW... how's things going with your son home? Did you get to hear him play the drums at the party?

An update on my sich... Saturday, my resentment took hold full force, but my W and I were able to talk about how I was feeling and it quickly turned around. We had a great night Saturday and a great day on Sunday. Sunday we went to our old church. My sons were missing their friends. We didn't warn OM or OMW... and I think they were a little shocked (I just told them we would probably be there Christmas Eve). They left right after so we didn't really even see them. It didn't bother me anymore going... it bothered my W more. I used to not want her anywhere around OM... but now I believe it is over and it doesn't bother me anymore. I figure that if it is possible, with all the pain and shame my W is going through, for it to happen again, then it will happen regardless of being at that church or not. I'm confident enough in the kind of husband and person I am that my W loves me and will continue to love me. I'm maybe not the most exciting or funniest guy around, but I am loving, caring, loyal, supportive and have some gifts and talents. Enough people have commented on me being handsome or good looking for me to believe that I'm atleast not bad to look at...not a GQ supermodel, but ok (especially now that I dropped 25 lbs since this all started). I believe my W will throw away a good H if she does it again.

Take care.

Shaden

Shaden,

I think you are funny but your self-assuredness to face OM in church is your most admirable quality.

I may get to see my wife's OM at her 20 year High School reunion sometime later next year. So many scenario's have circled my brain. I know how I will act and figure IF he shows up he will just avoid us. BUT if he comes up to me to just shack my hand and say he is sorry do I respond? What if he becomes a OFG (overly friendly guy) or worse he and his buddies decide to be smug (he's 36 and still lives for the glory high school days)? I have never met the manboy and really have no intention of even acknowledging his presence. But sometimes I fantasize about bringing in a set of brass knuckles and just wiping him out. I won't, but very occasionally I'd like to.



Harmonie,

You may have been able to confirm the stuck in ditch thing if he had provided you with the exact location. Then you could have double-checked the spot to see if a car (with the same tire tread) actually got stuck there. The tire tread would be important as a smart WS may predict your asking a locate a particular spot where a car had in fact been stuck and took note of it on his ride home...just in case you asked.

If the snow has not melted maybe you can still check that out.


Mr. Wondering

Mr. Wondering...

The brass knuckles sounds great...I've had similar thoughts at times. I just keep telling myself that there is absolutely no reason why any number of guys would fall for my W... it makes it easier to dismiss him as unimportant. I hate what has happened, but I still feel very fortunate to have her as my W. She just messed up and we are dealing with it. I've messed up many times as well... not in the same way, but we're all human.

The other thing, as I've said in past posts... that I felt intimidated by OM for years before this. Now, that intimidation and fear is gone. I enjoy the fact that his W is now making his life a living ****** while he does everything in his power to keep his M together... like he spent 6 hours sitting in the waiting room more than once at his W's work while she worked so she would know where he was. He manages an Infinity car lot... so too many days like this will really hurt his own job. I enjoy the fact that I can now walk into the church with my W holding my hand while he squirms. I feel bad for his W, but she hasn't handled herself very well either with coming on to me a couple of times.

You can feel good about the fact that your W is at the reunion with you. She made a mistake, but so many on here say that we are all capable of that under the right circumstances. She's with you now, and although I don't believe God causes these things to happen, but he can use these bad situations for good. He is using you and your awesome, calming influence and advice to help so many on this site.

My W's OM has apologized to me a couple of times. It didn't change my opinion of him but somehow it helped me to know that he felt he had to. My suggestion is to look him in the eye and either calmly accept the apology or tell him it doesn't mean anything to you. Let him know that you are a strong, confident man that will not be affected by someone like him. The old saying that anyone can win a battle... but you won the war.

Shaden

LOL...I don't think this is what you didn't mean.

Anyway, because my wife is a hottie too and was very popular in high school I worry more about OM bragging to friends (a couple of them already know) and word being passed around amoung the guys. It would devastate my wife if a couple of her very prim and proper girlfriends discovered their secret. Especially if it happened during the course of that night. I would be very P.O.'ed at him if he ruins my wifes evening. He still lives for the glory high school days and behaves accordingly so I fear something like this occurring.



I am such a conflict avoider I fear I would try to befriend him and end up laughing and doing shots with him all night. LOL. I really don't know if I will shake his hand or not...but I likely will tell him to save any apology even if offered up. I don't need it so I see know reason to give him any satisfaction. I'll probably change my mind a year from now...we'll see. I really don't care that much but I do absolutely know that I will be there proudly with my wife on my arm.

Mr. Wondering

argh! Mr Wondering!
I actually HAD the oportunity for him to show me too! He was called into work on Sunday and we went together (he asked if I wanted to go with) But the thought NEVER even crossed my mind to ask him where until after we had gotten home! We drove by the "spot" twice, however, HE could have also pointed it out to me. ARGH!

Shaden.... lots to write but am late for work.....ARGH!!!!!

Be well....