It's a test in the sense that she doesn't know what she's supposed to do (I don't think) or what the stakes of her failure are. If she's unaware of the stakes, do you think she might think it was a test (or at least feel a bit decieved?) when she finds out?

If this is what you plan to do, and you want to do it with integrity, then just tell her the whole truth. She might not listen or she might not believe you. Write it down, if you want to really cover your bases. Then, at least you can say you did due dilligence. You aren't responsible for her informed choices.


Then, when she's faced with the reality of you living up to what you explained you'd be doing, she can choose to believe the rest or not.


Write it down. Keep a copy.


Me too.

I think you might also need to learn to give her actual chances to respond instead of anticipating her responses and tailoring your actions towards them. Give her lots of opportunities, whether or not you're right about how she reacts. Choose the conflict - since that's part of the strategy.

Just do it in a respectful way that ensures that you aren't turning around and doing the same thing to her (painting her into a box) that she appears to be doing to you.

Mys

***For example...I want to go out and listen to live jazz.
I will tell her that I'm going. I will tell her the vitals...who, what, when, where, how. I will make it clear that I would prefer her company over going alone...but I'm still going.
Then she has a choice to make.***

LO, my H does the same thing to me. It's not a negotiation. He does exactly what you do -- he makes the plans and then merely INFORMS me of what HE has already decided to do. He's not treating me like a husband treats a wife -- he is treating me like a boss treats an employee. I find it unspeakably selfish and very, very cruel. If I don't respond to this by immediately jumping up to follow him, he will abandon me to go off and have fun by himself (or not by himself -- ?). And make no mistake -- it IS abandonment.

I do agree that any spouse should be willing to try new things with their H/W -- otherwise, what's the point of being married? A jazz concert is hardly anything like skydiving, so why should she refuse?

Maybe for the same reason that I finally stopped doing things with my H -- because I do not feel safe with him when we go out together.

I do not feel safe because he often mocks me if I am not good at something right away (volleyball) or if I hesitate to size up a situation first before diving in (the Gulf of Mexico with a lightning storm rolling in.)

I do not feel safe because he has a very bad habit of ignoring me for other females when we go out -- his female co-workers, other women in our party, the waitress, you name it. Looking at the back of his head all night is not any fun for me. I am then mocked for being "jealous."

I do not feel safe because I know full well he WILL abandon me and disappear without me if I cannot tolerate his neglect and disrepect as the price of going out with him.

Is it possible your wife does not feel safe with you and instead clings desperately to what is safe and familiar in an effort to get through her day?
Mulan

Unlike your H, I'm doing this as a specific strategy to get OUR marriage unstuck. It is not, and will not become, my modus operandi.



I do think she has some insecurity issues when we go out together. I intentionally go overboard with attention and conversation to try and make her feel like she's the only woman in the room. To give you an example...we were in a restaurant, I was reading the menu when she slaps me on the arm. I asked "What was that for?" She says "You know what for." I said "No, I don't". She had seen a rather "curvy" girl walk into the bar. She assumed that I had seen it as well. I hadn't...until she pointed her out to me after the fact.

I know she's like this, so I work very hard to let her know that I'm with her and no one else.

You see, this is what is becoming so tiring about spending time with her...every outing (movies and dinner) is an exercise in strategy and tactics for me. It's tough to just relax and enjoy.



Does he want you to do things with him? Do you refuse? I think you are giving him too much power...you are giving him the keys to your safety. Take them back and take ownership of yourself when you go out. By refusing to go out, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Low

Why is it tough for you to relax and enjoy?

She might notice this...

This might make her anxious about going out with you if she is insecure....

From your description regarding the curvy woman, she thinks that you do not find her attractive. Do you? Do you tell her what you like about her looks/her body?

Yes, I find her very attractive. I sometimes feel like my compliments fall on deaf ears. She looks like Martina McBride with better curves.

I've even considered asking another man to fawn over her (someone like the waiter or valet) just so she'll see that it's true. Maybe she'll hear it from him. (Yes, I know this is a bad idea).

Low

How does she give you that impression?

I don't think she wants to hear it from another man...

I'm beginning to think like the poster yesterday that your wife is CONSTRICTED in her feelings and actions..

I used to be that way and I am trying to figure out how I learned to become FREER...

I know my H has helped me with this...helping me to see that it is OK with him for me to let go....

Hi Lo,
Didnt want to TJ Anne's thread.

You've been unhappy for quite some time. Do you think this 'Exit Contact' was what you needed to get your W to pull the trigger? I've gotten the feeling you really wanted out, but couldnt do it.

Are you OK? - Dru

Low:

We want to hear from you...

We care...

Come here for support....

I don't know if I'm ok or not. I'm still numb.

The contact was not planned...on my part. I do think the OW planned it. I should've walked away, but I didn't. I screwed up.

She told me that she was thinking about getting married again and wanted to know if I could give her any reason not to. I said no.

Wife said that I would've walked away if I was truly over her. Not walking away is proof to her that I'm not and may never be. Maybe she's right.

Do you really think you screwed up? I kinda think you knew what you were doing, dont you? Didnt you want out of your M? Or were you trying to shake your W up? You've been telling her for a while but she didnt hear you. She heard this.


I think it's more likely proof that you've given up on your marriage, not that you're not over OW. I think you really dont know what you want. It's all so sad.

Low,

I don't know what to say.

How are you filling the time?

Have you seen the kids?

When do you plan to talk to your W?

I agree with Dru, this situation is sad.

Low:

I just read your post on Anne's thread....

I'm not understanding why you HAD to leave..

It was a talk in a restaurant.

I'm not understanding why you can't call her..

This is a perfect opportunity to tell your wife how you have been feeling lately and WHY...

She could end up being one of these BSes saying: "I just don't know why my WH did this to me"...and this response would be understandable from her...

Of course, your decision to talk to her was wrong. Your decision to be honest and open with your wife was RIGHT and GOOD, IMHO...

How come you can't tell her that you are sorry and ask her forgiveness, using this as another opportunity for growth in your relationship?

Do YOU think that this is a GOOD way to END your marriage...with you taking all of the blame....??

Mimi, let's imagine that LO's wife posted on this board too. She is probably convinced that she has been in Plan A since d-day (LO's description of her behaviour fits with this). Her WH has just broken NC after a long period, during which she has been convinced that his addiction to the OW has not rebated. The breaking of NC is a deal-breaker for her, and pretty much clinches the argument for the addiction to OW. Would we all not be advising her to go to Plan B? If she were to consider give him another chance, would we not be urging her to get tough?

LO's wife has gone to Plan B without benefit of MB. She may go straight to Plan D, but remember, she has given him a chance for, what, four years? LO has not been happy in the marriage since d-day, but he has also not relinquished his fantasy of the affair.

LO, there is a temptation, since you post here and your wife does not, to take your side and show biased sympathy. So my view will doubtless be out of kilter with everyone else's. But from the moment I first posted to you in 2002, this moment has been coming. You have shown no desire to accept your wife as she is, and a huge resentment that she will not change herself for you. You have consistently lauded the OW and her value to you. I am not surprised that your wife has been unable to relax into the marriage, nor that she has been reluctant to compete with the OW in the fulfilment of your fantasy. This second betrayal has been predictable.

Given how much dissatisfaction you have expressed recently, I can only suppose that you are deeply relieved to have escaped. I grieve that you couldn't do it the honourable way, by walking out, rather than making her push you.

TA

LO, I just read this whole thread. I did read PM.

All this talk about integrity and you go and create a situation in which you knew your W would blow, causing her to make the decision of ending the M.

You didnt have to sit down with FOW. In fact, I'm sure you had PROMISED your W that you would NOT. You did. Where's the integrity in that? Integrity is more than being brutally honest with your S.

Instead of leaving this marriage with your head held high, you get thrown out, full of shame. When you do get what you want you cant even do it in a way that gives you any dignity.

How can you reclaim some dignity and integrity with your W now? You're next life wont be much different if you cant. I dont know what else to say...

Low,
Wow. What a turn of events. I feel bad for you in that you are going through something very stressful and unpleasant, I am sure. And I bet you are beating yourself up over it pretty good.

I will not throw stones at you, as I am sure you are in enough crap.

I hope you find something to keep you busy and maybe this can be worked out. Sitting and talking with OW was a definite no-go, however. If overcomeable, you will be wise to watch this kind of situation in the future and make sure you stay away even if it means be extremely rude and make a scene in a public place.

I am sorry for this circumstance and it is very evil for the OW to pursue you after you sent an NC letter(I assume you did... you have been here a while).

Please take care of yourself.

LO,

I am very sorry to read this. I hope you are doing better. Is there anything I/we can do?

Even though we come at adultery from opposite directions, what you write usually helps me think a bit clearer.

I still suspect you are not really completely over OW, or of the highs of the affair in general at least. But even so, your BW’s reaction does seem to be extreme. Perhaps she suspected the same all along too, and this is the final straw in her perception of the situation.

Have you tried to contact her?

Please take care of yourself. I will pray for you.

I suspect that cuts both ways. In reading about Mrs. LO's behavior, i had the impression she was enormously frustrated that her willingness to forgive LO and stay married to him wasn't earning her any gratitude or admiration. Maybe she was beginning to think that if she had to turn herself into someone she's not to hold onto LO, it just wasn't worth it, and that's why she reacted to this incident the way she did. (Carolyn Hax sometimes has cartoons that run with her advice column and illustrate a point she makes. Recently there was one in which a man was talking to a bartender, saying, "If only she had tried harder, she would have been perfect for me." I think that's what Mrs. LO hears from LO.) Maybe in time she would have asked him to leave anyway, and this just gave her the push she needed.