Hi, I'm new here. Like some others, I have been reading posts and need some advise. Sorry this is so long...

I fear my WH is on again w/OW. It's a co-worker that is also married w/DC. We have a DS (5 years old), who just started school. DS is very sensitive and I fear what a break up will do to him.

I think I have been Plan Aing it for too long and perhaps not well. I'm not sure if I should move to Plan B or not.

Here's my story. WH started acting very strangly starting end of last summer and it progressively got worse. He got very mean and wouldn't talk to me at all. He would wait for me to fall asleep and go into the other room. It was really hard and I didn't know what was going on. He finally would only tell me that he wasn't happy and never thought he would think about D. That was a shock to me! He had said there was no OW, he just wasn't happy. We went through Thanksgiving and then Christmas. Both were horrible. I started to see a MC mid December per the advise of my dad. That started to help and helped me put the pieces together. We have seperate cell phones and credit card bills (yes know that's not good in retrospect). His cell bill went to his office. He also put a pin on his cell phone, which is still there.

Basically, I ended up putting a mini tape recorder in his car. It took me a week to get up the courage to do it. The first day was just enough information. He was like 2 seconds from the house and tried to call her! But later conversations confirmed my fears. So I confronted him the next day by calling him at work and telling him that I knew and that I would like him to leave. I told him I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, but I wanted him to leave for now. I then called his mom and told her everything. I'm still glad I did this even though it infuriated him.

I then left the house with my son and went over to my dad's which is about 10 mins away. He called my cell and then called my dad's. I ended up talking to him and we agreed to work on things and that he would have NC with this other person. I made some errors at that point and didn't lay down strong enough boundaries. Recovery wasn't where it should have been after that. The coming months something didn't feel right. (this was 1/31/05 when I confronted him). We went on vacation in early August. I knew something wasn't right before then and suspected he was still involved. He was nicer to me during this time, but not as affectionate or caring.

Then I had the day off work when we got all our mail back. He had switched cell phone companies (still not sure REALLY why) and so the bills where coming to the house. He always insisted on getting the mail-he always has so that wasn't much of an issue. Well his cell phone bill was in the mail we had held while we were away on vacation. I really struggled with opening it and the whole trust thing. Then I knew I had to. I found lots of calls and like 20 txt messages back and forth every day. The last day of the bill was just before our vacation.

Again, I called him at work and told him I had his bills. I asked him to leave. He begged and begged and then said that he would not leave. He knew that he needed to be here if things were going to work out. I should have insisted he leave-I did for some time-but I should have been more forceful. Now I feel like I have lost my leverage and my self respect. And I fear he is on again with her. He is acting strange again. What man puts his sweaty gym socks on his W's pillow at night? It's like he wants to hurt me.

During both times (before the cell phone bill and after) I have been trying really hard to follow Plan A. I think after the cell phone bill, I really got lost. Now I'm 2 months or more later and trying to pick myself up again. I really do love WH or I wouldn't be trying so hard to make this work. WH talks very little about what happened and his feelings now. WH feels that things are fine. WH's not sure what is wrong and that I have the issue. Many times WH tells me that I am crazy.

My WH did take our son to meet the OW and her DC (dependent children is this right acronym?) a few times. This still burns me up. My DS told me about it and I confronted WH. WH denied it. A few weeks later is when I found the cell bill. WH then admitted it was true. WH was crazy-not me!

I'm not sure how to find out if he is involved again with the OW. WH told me it was just a EA, but I don't believe it. I think it is PA. WH doesn't show any interest in S anymore just the past several weeks. Much of his behaviour sometimes is so childish it just makes me laugh.

But I don't know what to do. Do I ask WH to leave with a Plan B better, not having concrete proof it's on again? Do I plan A it again for a few more months? I'm not sure how much more I can take. My job suffers and I know my son has to see something. Some days seem OK and others are not. I know WH is cake-eating, but I feel like I have to have proof before I can do Plan B. I know if I had proof, I would have the strength to Plan B. I don't want to make any mistakes and make us seperate when there is nothing going on and we just need to continue to work on our M. Just me leading H (or dragging really-kicking and screaming) to grow.

Any advise would be appreciated. I just don't know what direction to go and how much longer I can do this. Again, I want to save our M and I know it can be better. We did love each other and had fun before. Our 10 year anniv was on the 7th, and he didn't plan anything. He kinda forgot. No excitment or anything about it. That really put a nail in the coffin for me. But anniv were never much of a big deal for WH, but WH knows they are for me. We met 5 yrs before we got M. I'm 35 and wonder if I should move on while my DS is younger (MC says impact would be less than if 8,9 or 10). MC back this summer said that it may be over and I just need to move on.

Please any advise is greatly appreciated.

Wow.

Just a little note here...My WS made almost me at one time feel I was indeed wacky!

He would lie sooooo much! Say he didn't do what I saw him do...say it w/straight face. Tell me I imagined things...

It was enough to drive Dr. Laura bonkers I tell you!

Your Wh is a WS!

He is in contact with OW!

Exposure time! This time for both WS and OW!

How dare he bring your child over to see her child? Foggy future ideas of the WS makes t hem do it btw...

And your child was brave enough to tell mommy the truth! hooray for DS!

Do a short plan A...but find Pep's thread on carrot and stick of A.

Do it quickly.

And if no changes, quickly go dark and into B.

You have waffled and if you A too long, it will lose the impact!

Follow the simple carrot/stick checklist. Can't get easier than that! At least you have a plan !

I still find it amazing that WH forgot how he brought DS over to OW's house to comingle the kids together...what a foggy family picture that is!

Bleech!

I dislike WS soooooo much!

Oh..learn reverse babble when the fool begins blabbing it...

Why?

BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THAT'S COMING OUT OF HIS SEWER LIKE MOUTH!

How much more proof do you need? What does it matter whether the affair is emotional or physical? I believe you are justified right now to write your Plan B letter and put it into effect.
First, expose the affair to other family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc.
Find someone to be the intermediary and have no contact with your WS. Check with a lawyer about whether you can change the locks, pack his bags and leave his belongings either on the porch or in your garage or on the lawn.

Your WS is cake-eating. He isn't going to come clean. He is addicted to the OW. Yet he isn't willing to leave you right now. He wants you both.

About the proof: Even if you had a videotape of them having intercourse, even if you walked in on them in the act stark naked, he would tell you that you are crazy. "Who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes?"

Please check into marriage coaching here on MB. That could give you the help you need.

Good luck.

Thanks- it's so weird. It's like I know I need to do this> I know that I will be OK either way. I think WS pride, family (parents M 30+ years) and son is keeping him here. I think it is time for me to get ready to Plan B. WS has to go to China for work (no idea if OW would go)the first full week of November. Maybe I should have that ready when he gets back. That will give me time to prepare and ramp up. Maybe I will do MC on MB. Do I get to that through the coaching center right?

I did see a lawyer back in December. I know I have mostly done the right things, but I think I messed up not doing Plan B after the cell phone bills.

Should I contact his mom again with my concerns? The neighbors will all know after I make him leave. I know it needs to hurt before WS will get it. If he does. I do believe what is meant to be will be, I just get so confused sometimes in making sure I do the right thing and not mess up.

Should I contact his HR department? He works at a really large company with several campus'.

I did ask the WS about a week ago if I should call the OW, just to put some closure to the sitch. WS freaked out and said that would be a bad idea. AFter the cell phone deal, he talked about the three of us going out to lunch down the road. Yeah sounds great. So I used that excuse to gauge his response. Seemed to me he had more concern for OW's feelings than mine!

So when does the BS get a clue and act?

You need to contact his HR department right away. Often work exposure is what it takes to end an affair.

Should I admit to calling? I think I would have to be anonymous when I call. WS is not violent, but gets very angry. He tries to control me with his anger.

TARDIS - about marriage coaching: Scroll up to the top of the MB site, where it says e-mail [email]TempestMB@verizon.net.[/email] Click on that and ask directly.

Some of the MB'ers did use the marriage coaching and were very successful. I didn't, but I think you are still in the running to save your marriage. Good luck.

About whether to admit to H that you called HR? I don't know. Melody Lane is one of the MB experts. Ask for her input.

Thanks Bellevue~ I do have an appointment tomorrow morning, so we'll see what Steve says. H is really been acting like he did when this whole thing started just over a year ago. I know that the past 2 mos I have been on the fence myself and I'm sure that didn't help. I just hope I have not messed up my opportunity to make this work by behaving that way. I really do love H because I know that I wouldn't still be here trying to figure out how to make this work. I was really pretty good the first six months up until our vacation. I did confront H about a few things toward the end of the six mos as I knew something wasn't right. The last cell phone bit really threw me off and it it until now that I am thinking a little more clearly. I guess I thought my indifference would make him really want to stay. That was dumb. But I did feel that way-things were not better and H was still indifferent, H tried a little. Now H's acting more agitated and nervous.

The reality to me I guess is that H doesn't talk. He has never really has and it's worse now. I've tried to mention a few things that H is acting a little distant and strange. He's probably aware that I am aware something is up and not right. But the most frustrating part is that H won't open up and never really has very much ever. His dad is the same way. I'm not sure how we could have ever worked on our M if H won't talk about it and runs the other way. Guess H would rather talk to OW about how it's not going well instead. Reason to talk and be with her. Wondering if this is more about H wanting to be with OW then OW really interested in H. But who knows, I can go on for days with different scenarios and what-ifs.

Anyone have thoughts on how to get someone to open up? Sometimes I wonder if this "silent treatment" is a form of punishment and manipulation. I feel somehow like it's the silence before the storm...