That will be our 1st group session; kind of an intervention maybe?

Good God, wnh, her "counseling" is leading your marriage straight for divorce by encouraging an entitlement mentality.

Are you confronting her with the truth of how destructive her actions are to your marriage and to your feelings towards her? I have to say that I think you are ripe for Plan B. That is why I wish you would contact Dr. Harley and let him guide you through this.

I keep wondering, as I read your thread...with your wife being in such bad shape when she got home and not knowing how she got home, and the guy claiming that he drove her home when she was being sick down the street...could it be possible that she was slipped a date-rape drug?

Mel I'm definitely confronting her. She understands, and seems to care, but also acts a bit as though it's out of her control. She also seems to have backed away somewhat from yday's very remorseful stance, when she said she thought she had to have a bottoming-out experience and now that it was behind her maybe should could straighten out. Less remorseful today. That worries me. But then everything worries me these days.

Wow that hadn't occurred to me or to her. I doubt she's even heard of them. I'll mention it to her. How can I found out? Is there a blood test for that?

She remembers drinking many many celebratory shots, all kinds of alcohol. So my thought is that a drinking binge was likely the source. She will get more info tomorrow from her colleagues. I will try to get her to take it seriously, it's not a joke to lose your panties!

Are there laws against taking advantage of an extremely drunk woman? Can her colleague be charged with rape? Can I file the police report, or would it have to be my W?

There are certainly laws against that happening (date rape), rape is rape. Extremely drunk? Consent is a varying word in the eyes of the law. The bad news here is if she has foam and "uses" it there is consent. Plus, the guys who do this type of stuff are portrayed as victims by attorneys and your W's character will be questioned.

wnh..I would look into what really happened and keep the law out of it until you there is proof of an assault.

wnh...you're doing well but I am still concerned. Make sure you listen to folks like Mel.....I really do not have much to add to her comments except say...ditto...

Thanks Send. Does rape necessarily entail her saying 'no'? I don't know the facts, but hypothetically suppose she were too drunk to respond either affirmatively or negatively, but sex still ensued - could that be rape in the eyes of the law?

WW is staying home from work today. Possibly she doesn't want to face her colleague.

wnh, I took a bit of a break from this forum over the weekend then I come back to this!

I'm sorry you have to go through this. Try to keep a level head over these next few days even though you feel hurt and angry.

I'm thinking and praying for you.

Thx HTW. Kind of rough these days. Is it possible this is rock bottom and brighter days somewhere ahead?

Also thinking about you. Hope your weekend was tolerable.

It doesn't sound to me like a date rape drug was required if your WW was supposedly looking for action and even had foam in her purse.

Agreed. But I'm still wondering if she could have been raped. Or taken advantage of. Really not sure how to think about what happened Friday night. Ok she's said she is receptive to advances these days and has been looking for action. That does not mean she consented or was able to consent Friday night.

WNH-

To begin with, I think you've been given some EXCELLENT advice as always by the people on this site.

Here's my less than excellent advice.

Tell your wife bluntly that she seems less remorseful (or however you want to describe it, but be BLUNT) today than she did yesterday. Tell her that you feel that she should have seen very clearly from how you reacted and dealt with things yesterday that YOU'RE still willing to do whatever is needed to work things out...BUT.

It's now up to HER to hold to HER side of things. She showed you very clearly that she's NOT happy with the changes she's made in her life up to now, and she's made a lot of choices that she's regretted. So NOW is the time to start re-building...not tomorrow, not tonite after IC...NOW. She's hit rock bottom...from here, the only way out is up. Make it clear to her what you need to rebuild your marriage, and make it clear to her what you're willing to do on YOUR part to do so.

And tell her to choose. NOW. And to STICK to that choice. She can either continue her unhappy drunken debauchery with whoever catches her inebriated, or she can start taking the steps she needs to in order to be happy again.

I did something similar in my wife's case. But in her case, it was at the tail end of the worst of her withdrawl from OM...she was flat depressed at how she'd screwed up her life (and mine), but was still 'waffling' on her choice to stay or go. And then she hurt me one too many times, and I showed her the notes I'd taken from an initial meeting with a lawyer to explain the basics of divorce in our state. And I told her that I was done, she could either choose to rebuild our marriage, or she could choose to end it, but SHE had to make that choice, and she had to do it NOW.

She clearly chose to rebuild...and communicated that to me in very clear terms.

At this point, you've got a lot of power...don't let HER regain the power to ruin your lives further. Give her her options, and make plans to deal with things however she chooses. But make it clear that the living at home while behaving like she is is DONE...one way or another.

Just my suggestion...I'd bet that SH would suggest a more 'humane' approach. I didn't use MB principles exactly in my case...I found this site AFTER we began to reconcile.

Regardless, I pray for you and hope that all works out for you in the way that God wants it to, my friend. That's the best possible solution for all.

Owl, that is superb advice! I have erased 5 posts while grappling with this since yesterday and think your advice was SPOT ON!

There is not a thing in your post that is counter to MB principles, it is superb advice that could have very well come from Steve Harley. He doesn't mince words.

Owl I will confront her as you suggested. Although I have not yet visited an attorney, and don't want to consider it, the time may be drawing closer.

WW has an appointment with doctor today; to get tested for STDs.

Today she seems back to open and conciliatory. Repentent too, but not quite the broken woman I saw 2 nights ago.

She called her colleague. The story is: the vomit several houses away was because WW got sick in his car, and opened the door, and her stuff fell out of her purse at the same time. Then he drove her to the wrong house, she got out and stumbled and lost her shoes and jacket, then he got her back in the car and got her to our driveway. That's the story. This still doesn't sound at all right. WW did not ask about the panties and he did not mention them. She will do so tomorrow.

Well, as far as the rest of that goes, I'd ask you what does it really matter at this point? She may or may not remember what really happened...but the odds are VERY high that even if she does remember what happened, she' not going to want to openly admit to it to you. It's one thing to talk about something that happened several months ago...another to talk about what happened last nite.

Don't be surprised if she comes home from the IC filled with "boundary BS' tonite. I THINK you've said that this is a joint meeting...I suggest you go with both guns loaded and ready...and make it clear to that counselor that there are boundaries that may be appropriate for an individual, and other boundaries that are appropriate for the joint entity of a married couple. And that what your wife (and your marriage) needs right now is a focus on the MARITAL boundaries...and that whatever the IC teaches needs to be ready to deal with the WHOLE problem...both your wife's individual and your joint marital boundaries.

Do not accept anything that is going to be contrary to your marriage at this point. Try not to be confrontational, try to be as logical and well thought out as possible...but also do not be negotiable to what it's going to take to rebuild your marriage. Be ready to back up ANY of your requests or comments with either facts based on your wife's previous behavior, or with information you've learned here or through SH.

Good luck man...it seems to me that you're at the crux of things now...the right push the right way can make this work out.

I won't be able to go to MC tonight b/c Halloween; I need to be here for our kids. But I will communicate clearly to WW my expectations for the boundaries she brings home, and how she should handle MC if he suggests boundaries that aren't appropriate for our current situation.

The sitch really has changed in the last week; due to WW's (finally!) coming out with a fairly complete confession about the A. Also due to the events of last Friday night. Previously there may have some rationale for building bondary walls between us to protect WW from the possibility I would react badly; but now I think is the time for building boundary walls between our M and the outside world. Agreed?

Went to the police station, met with an officer about the process for starting a rape inquiry. Sounds fairly simple for WW - IF she would do this - to make a written statement that would be sufficient to get her colleague questioned by the police. She would also need to be examined for physical evidence. Difficult b/c it's now 2+ days later. During police questioning, her colleague may deny anything inappropriate, which would make a conviction very difficult. WWs recent actions make it doubly difficult to convict. Not to mention if there is no physical evidence. But there may be some benefit from getting her colleague questioned.

I plan to mention that to WW. I doubt she would want to make an official statement. But it would at least bring home to WW the fact that this is a very serious matter. Not in the sense that WW did a terrible thing; rather in the sense that I care about her, and fear that she may have been sexually taken advantage of.

Results were negative for STDs. But she needs to be retested in 6 months. Lem does that sound right to you? No discernable presence of sperm; means little after 2+ days.

I dread the outcome of her IC; she'll be home in a couple of hours. I made my position clear, but WW took offense at an inoffensive remark; probably insulted at being tested for STDs and at my indication she may have been raped.

Our first group MC at church - completely different from the IC above - is 3 days away.

I know you don't want to believe that your WW may have had consented sex with an OM last Friday, but it is wrong to try to pin a rape charge on someone if your WW did agree to have to have consensual with that person. If your WW and OM had sex last Friday, the evidence suggests that it was consensual.

Let's take a look. Your WW is not freaking out about what she did last Friday, except to be remorseful towards you--at first, anyway. She did not ask OM about what happened to her panties when she spoke to him. She is not interested in going to the police. She is not crying over the incident. These facts should give you pause.

Yes, she did not go to work today, but it is not clear if this was because she was embarrassed or because she was raped. My point here is to be very careful before trying to put OM2(?) in jail for something he did not do. On the other hand, you have to protect your WW. I know it's hard to accept that one's wife been having sex with another, but since she is currently a WW and therefore not to be trusted, I would thread very carefully before putting in motion a set of events that may end up being catastrophic for all involved.

A good offense is the best defense is your WW's reasoning.