I have posted some questions to other parts of the forum, but have been recomended to post here as there is more people with wider experiences. The story is this:
I found a text message in my husband's mobile about two months ago. It read ' Wish I was at the bar with you. Love u' When confronted tried to deny it and then found him texting. Snatched the phone from him and a message came in saying ' Just deny it' He then said that he had been texting this girl from work and gone for lunch but nothing had happened, that our marriage had been very bad and just needed somebody to talk to. He broke down saying that he wanted to be with me and our son (the relationship started going bad since we had our son, busy working, sleepless nights, not help etc). He said that will stop all contact and that he was glad I found the text as we could start from scratch. The next day we went on holidays for two weeks and it was fantastic and since then he has lots of little things saying he loves me, sending me e-mails from work etc. But he doesn't want to talk about it. He says that now everything is good, that he looks forward to coming home and that we are very happy. He agreed to MC but then after the holiday he said we are OK, that we don't need counselling, that he hasn't done anything wrong, and that we need to look to the future, not the pass. He says that he has apologised and that that is it.
I sometimes agree, that I cannot keep mentioning it, making little comments, but I have so many questions. I still don't feel right and go through his mobile, bills, etc to try to find evidence and cannot live like that! I feel insecure, ugly, always try to look my best when he is arround. That is not right... I haven't done anything wrong, although he thinks that me not showing love and affection contributed to him talking to somebody else. I haven't found any evidence that he has contacted her again and when I asked he said that it meant nothing, that she is gone.
Yesterday I was feeling particularly low and when I got home I went through his wallet,and found a bill for a watch that wasn't from the place that he said he had been to. I felt horrible. I finally confronted him. I asked why he told me he was in one place buying a watch when he was in another place? Straight away he said he was with a girl from work and her son (I know them both). I believed him straight away as he could not have made up the lie so quick! Also I spoke with her and it is true. But it still leaves the problem of lying: he said after what had happened he didn't want me to get mad for going for lunch with another girl. He said he was sorry and that now he sees how I must have been feeling and that he should have been honest. This is a summary of the discussion He also said he was mad for me looking through his things, but I said that he will have to put up with it after what he did as it is difficult for me to trust him and now would be even more. I am still mad at him for lying. I revisited what happen and he is still adamant that he only went for lunch with that girl a few times and texting, that nothing else happened and that there is no contact since (I have been looking hard for evidence and found nothing) Otherwise he is loving and caring since DD but I don't want him lying!
He finally said that we could go to MC but I am not sure about it now. I do need to talk with somebody as I need to get myself up again for myself and my son, but I am not sure it would do any good to revisit everything again. It is finished, it is done, we are both trying, is it worthy?
Any other comments about the whole situation let me know. I also know that he is not great at comunicating and I don't know how to make him talk to me about feelings etc, Any ideas?
Thank you very much

Well, MC won't help much if he is in an affair and is committed to a path of deceit. I suspect he is in an affair with this girl and it will continue off and on as long as he has contact with her. Your first order of business is to find out what is really going on here and who this woman is.

Once you know that, there are many things you can do to bust up the affair, such as Plan A. Plan A is designed to bust up the affair with exposure [exposure is ruinous to affairs] and to attract him back into the marriage by meeting his needs.

I would also add that if he cannot continue to work with the OW if you want to save your marriage. The affair will be almost impossible to end that way.

They do not work together. She is in the same company as him but not based in the same office. He has promised me that since DD he hasn't had any contact. That he spoke to her and told her so that he wanted to work on our marriage.
What makes you think he is having an affair? I have asked him a million times and he has said that they only went for lunch, and texted, she is married and had problems as well and that just needed somebody to talk about. I did believe him and all my friends do think he is committed and that he is telling the truth.
Obviusly you have more experience than me, but cannot be truth that he was having an EA and that is done and over with?
Thanks

Glad to see you posted your story here. Melody is one of the experts I was referring to.

Did you see my most recent post to you in "In Recovery" forum?

From your descriptions, he sounds like he is still defensive ('nothing happened, why are you checking my stuff) instead of remorseful (telling you what ever you want to know, admitting what he did is wrong, etc.)

I think Mel (correct me Mel if I am wrong), suspects its not over, because WH are often defensive and FWH are remorseful.

We can't really tell you whether he is telling the truth or not, but indications of truthtelling is being very open and as specific as you want about his interaction with OW as well as very transparent in his actions at present.

Ultimately, MC is pointless without this kind of honesty and openness--because you won't be dealing with the real issues.

I was wondering, has he admitted to inappropriate behavior that you didn't discover on your own?

It is awful to feel insecure around your spouse, and I am sorry that you do. Dont let him hold the position of power over you--you are honest and loyal--terrific qualities and more than OW can claim!!

BTW, does OW H know about the EA? Also, when did he call OW and tell her to stop calling him? After you found the text message--I guess? Why weren't you a part of that conversation? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

mawb,

Listen to the experts (and I am not one, but I can share my experience). I could have written your post just 8 short weeks ago. I didn't think it was all that bad, just some text messages, we could get past this....

WH moved out 3 weeks later and is now planning to divorce me to spend his life with his married OW.

But it was just a text messages, a few "dates" and alot of phone calls...

Hi,

Thanks for your replies. I can see what you mean by him being defensive. Let me put it in context. He does say he is sorry after we intially had the chat and he cried and he said that he would do anything etc. It is after I go on and on that he loses his patience and becomes defensive (my husband works shifts and that somehow affects his short temper as he is always tired - he hasn't got much patience either) So his opinion is if I have said sorry, said that I will not do it again, why are we still talking about it? After all this has happened I haven't found any evidence of him seeing her again, he has told me everywhere he has been and I have checked!
Ahuman, you mention the chat with the other woman, he called her the same day and told her what happened and that he didn't want to talk or see her anymore and she was fine about that - so he says. His reason for not giving information about her is that it is in the past and that he wants to move forward.
H is a very straight forward person, cannot be bother with hassles, so I find him quite incapable of having a full affair without me knowing, first he hasn't got the time and second, he is not like this. He has always said that if he didn't love me he would leave. I even said that he could leave and said that he did not want to he wanted to work on our marriage and leaving was not an option.

I know that it seems that I am trying to convince you all and myself that that is the truth, and yes, it helps writing it down. I have best and worst days (the best is when I am with him, the worst when he is working and I make stories in my mind)

I think that he reacts to my comments as well, when I am 'in a mood' as he calls it he retracts from me, when I am 'too needy' he retracts as well, but when I am just cheerful and happy is like a magnet he cannot get enough of being nice. I just find very difficult to find this happy medium. Suggestions?

Thanks

mawb,

Again, I could have written your last post also. My WH once said he realized that after 2 weeks post D-Day that I was still hurt, so that was proof that I would never get over it and so he had to go.

If I had to do it all again, from where you are now, I would plan A my butt off. Look for evidence of contact, but I would do it in secret. Prepare for the worse, but hope for the best. Start thinking about your finances (just in worse case scenario)

I don't know what to tell you about exposure or MC. I am a MB flunkie. They say that MC does no good if they are still in the A. You seem to think that contact has stopped. I think my WH may have lasted a whopping 9 days or so.

Prepare for the worse, hope for the best, stay in plan A and wait for the experts here.

Thanks Jean36.

I am checking as much as possible. I will follow your advice. It has been over two months now since DD and apart from the lunch incident which I have explained above everything has been ok.
I haven't lowered my guard though and I check all the time, I have found a receipt for a golf club which he hasn't told me about. I thought I let that one pass for the time being, but I will find my moment.

The problem is that I cannot live forever like this, checking, snooping around, it drives me crazy. I told my sister and she said that if I decide to believe him I should stick with it and work at our marriage and if I decide I don't believe him confront him and tell him to leave but she says that I cannot be one day I believe you one day I don't. I think I am inclined to believe him but I want him nice all the time. She said that I should know his limitations that if he wasn't like this before the EA he would not change his personality overnight.

jean36 I am intrigued about your story, you said he left after two weeks, was it just and EA? How come he changed his mind so quickly, sorry to ask, if you don't want to answer, tell me so!

Thanks.

I am happy to answer any questions if it helps someone else out!

I found text messages on his phone purely by accident, I asked about them. He had the family values epiphany and wanted to save the M. Yes, he said it was pretty much an EA, some kissing and such. He called her the next day and said wife knew and it was over with her. He told his boss, his family, took a week of from work and we talked non stop. Had some great "dates", went to MC.

BUT-he would not tell me who or where she was. I had her name-that is all. She changed her cell phone # after D-Day. He protected her to out marriages peril. I could not feel safe since he was proving his loyalty was to protecting her identity. I did not need to confront her, I just wanted to know where she worked as he did business at her job. He would always tell me where he was, but without knowing where she was-that info did not make me feel safe.

So, two weeks after D-day, we started pulling away from me and his cell phone timer kept getting mysteriously reset. He started telling me to back off, back off, which I believe is WS speak for "I need to finish my affair and you are cramping my style"

So three weeks after D-day, he moved to a motel "to think", the next day, OW was in his room.

He has been gone 6 weeks now, the kids are fried, we are probably going to have a pretty nasty D, he has lost almost every friend he has. It is a wild ride, buckle down and get ready.

Thanks.

You are right. The situation is quite similar, obviously without knowing your H.

The problem I have is how do I bring the subject up again. I agreed to believe him two months ago, everything is fine. So I cannot come up and say, by the way, tell me all about your EA or you are out.
How do you do this? I don't want to start an argument again, and I don't want to push him to her.More to the point, I agreed to believe him and nothing has changed.

I am confussed.

mawb

I hate to give anyone advice, as I screwed my situation up so bad. But, here is what I would do.

Start talking or at least thinking with your H about how to affair proof the M. Maybe whatever happened was a strange little fluke and it is over BUT something made the M vulnerable. So, maybe reading "How to Affair Proof your M", "His needs, her needs" or the other material that is mentioned around here.

Actively working on making your M the best it can be (but still keeping an eye on the possibility that there is an A going on) See how he responds to working on building a stronger marriage. Maybe you have gotten off the edge of the cliff in time, but try to build that fence so the cliff is less of a threat.

MAWB,

I feel like my comments keep putting you on the defense. I am sorry for that. But frankly, I am absolutely shocked that he has not told you who she is! Believe me, this is not because it is in the past, but because he is protecting her or himself.

Please, don't deny yourself the opportunity for a full recovery--which starts with RADICAL honesty.

He owes you the whole story. Not only for YOU, but for HIM. I am speaking from experience here. If he does not build the courage to face the hard facts of what he did, how is he going to assure you of his future honesty. By being nice?

You keep checking and wondering, IMHO, because your gut (not your head or your friends) is telling you something...and because your H is not. No wonder you keep asking and wanting to talk about it--you don't KNOW about it.

Even if it IS over, it's not TRULY over until the truth is out. He is still lying to you by omission. No real recovery can occur until honesty occurs. (No true intimacy without honesty). Too bad if it bugs your H, if he had such a hard time talking about it--then he shouldn't have done it! Work, stress--no excuse not to be open and honest.

MC at this point, seems pointless, unless he is ready to give you all of the details--AT LEAST--who she is, where and when they met, and what they talked about.

Just my two cents. Sorry if it stings.

just curious - if H says he is not having an affair why did text message received by him end in Love U .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

sorry, I posted above before reading your most recent post....

What about filling out the radical honesty worksheets??

Do you have the Surviving an Affair book?

Hi,

A few answers:

Joie de Vivre - I have brought up that conversation a few times with him. The context is as follows: He was out all day at a cricket match and then went out at night for a few drinks and was at a bar called American Bar. The text that I found the following morning read: I wish I was at the American Bar with you. Watching Big Brother, very entertaining. Love u.
I said the same to him, that it is very personal, that people don't go around saying Love u. He said that it is a matter of speech that it is not Love you in the sense of the word - not convinced about this one, but what else can I do.

Ahuman - You mentioned saying all about the affair. Sorry that you think I am being defensive, I don't want to come through like that I just putting my thoughts into paper and appreciate all the comments.
When I told a friend that I wanted to know all as it keeps playing on my head she said. You shoudn't, does it matter? would it help you or will it just drive you more mad? You will just bring it up at arguments, keep wanting more and more. Why don't you just forget about what happened and concentrate in your marriage.
opinions?

No, I haven't got the book. What are the radical honesty worksheets?

Jean36, where is the affair proof your marriage in the site, I don't seem to have come accross it.
Thanks

I haven't read the book, but I thought it had been mentioned around here. I think "His needs, her needs" is a very important one to read.

Here is the Affair proof one, maybe someone can give you a review of it:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060929189/002-9436929-0404850?v=glance

How much reading have you done outside the infidelity forum. The stuff that I have read here on the web site will be invaluable in my future relationships, either with WH or without.

Hi,

Thanks for that.
I have read some of the Q&A. The problem is that I am not really taking it all in as I am at work, as at home I haven't got much chance.

mawb....hardly any WS here starts off admitting to the extent of the A...many admit at first only to inappropriate friendship or an EA. No one should be ending a text msg to a married man with luv you or by saying they were with them.

I think all of us old timers here are pretty darn sure there is more to this story then he is telling you.

I too thought that my H would never, ever have an affair he wasn't the type. Never flirted, lusted after, never had close female friends, etc. I also thought that since he was a stay at home dad and I work our of a home office that he wouldn't be able to pull off an A. I even thought that when my gut started going off pre dday...I was suspicious, would snoop but then wouldn't be able to figure out how he would pull it off.

On dday I got him to confess (to EA with kissing only) by telling him I was going to hire a private detective and that I was going to force him to take a polygraph.

It took 2 months, IC, MC and two polygraphs for the whole truth to come out.

It doesn't matter that you originally told him you believed him...you should be able to tell him now that you can't get it out of your mind...that you are scared/worried to death and ask him how he can help you feel better. Don't let him get by with making you feel bad because you have doubts...remember..he gave you reasons to doubt him.

Asure him that you can handle the truth...whatever it is. Asure him that if there is more to the story and he committs to doing all the work of recovery that you think your M will recover. However, don't say this unless you think you mean it.

You wouldn't be posting here if you didn't have doubts and if you were able to just let it go..it doesn't work that way. Your mind will continue to turn this over and over until you are sure you have the truth. What you are doing now is called conflice avoidance.

Sorry if I seem harsh I don't mean to...I just think that sometimes we BS's tend to also be in some sort of self deceptive fog...out of pure fear.

Most all of the b/s's have thought there is no way their spouses would cheat originaly, it was just not in their character.
My husband swore to me that he would never cheat, but he would just divorce me if he didn't love me.
Somehow, once they are involved in the unthinkable act of an affair, all their rational thinking goes right out the window with the rest of their brain.
Their thinking becomes fuzzy, and they have confused thoughts and decisions.

And yes, we b/s's do have a way of dealing with the undealable.
Its called denial.
Our mind just doesn't want to grasp tramatic life changing events, especially when it knows it is true. After DD the b/s's can site everyone of the symptoms and signs they had failed to acknowledge or note before their discovery of the affair.
Then they slap their forehead and ask themselves why they didn't see what was right in front of them all the time.

Lean on our more seasoned posters, they will help you get to the bottom of your problem and help you map out a game plan.

MAWB,
You have gotten some great insight here. And you will find a lot of support on this forum. It is amazing how so much of this type of situation follows a script.

You are in good hands here--although friends and family can be supportive and A is a different animal and unless they have been through it, they may not have the best insight as to how to respond.

As to the Radical Honesty worksheets, they are titled Personal History Forms. If you cannot print them from this site, they are in the back of the books available through the site.

Let us know how you are doing and how you decide to address your discussion with him.

Also, have you read Plan A? Have you identified what you think is top needs are? this would be another place to start.

Good luck! Hang in there.