How do I express anger without LB'ing? Does it even need to be expressed or am I just supposed to feel it until it passes?

I think anger needs to be expressed in order to be open and honest.

However, we need to take control of how it is expressed-not in an outburst, not without thought and consideration about the best way to convey it.

So, think before acting. Calm down and express it in the way that you think that it will be heard.

Expression of anger is a LB if done disrespectfully and/or in an outburst..

A calm voice instead of yelling (like I have tended to do in the past).

"I've got to tell you something that's been bothering me...

Say this at the right time and in the right place..

Not while he is watching his favorite TV program...

Make sense?

There is nothing wrong in expressing your anger, it's how you express your anger. You want to be able to talk in a controled manner and not in an emotional state. If you find yourself with a voice that begins to escalate, emotions rising, it's time to back off the conversation and regroup. There is nothing wrong with postponing a conversion until later when you can talk about it in a civil manner and the emotions are not flairing.

You can express your anger by using "I messages" and express how you feel about a specific behavior without attacking the person. Feelings of hurt, pain, rejection etc. is often experienced as anger, so it will be good to figure out the underlying emotions and express that as well.

Yes, it makes sense.

So, I just simply state it, without yelling or being emotional?

If I am angry about something about the past, is that something I should just choke down? How do you do that? Should you do that?

I want to ask questions about the past, but I am scared. I am scared because I know it will be painful, and I know it will make him unhappy - isn't that an LB?

I'm just having these horrible feelings right now and I'm not sure what to do with them. I don't want to sling them in his direction, as I have often done in the past. I'm just looking for some alternatives.

I can do that. Does that apply to feelings about the past, as well?

Yes, it does. If you still have unresolved feelings about the past - feelings and issues which haven't been addressed yet - it's time to do so. It never helps to try and "sweep things under the rug" and that includes feelings of hurt, anger and pain. As someone said earlier, expressing your negative feelings isn't a LBer as long as it is done in a respectfull way.

Okay.

Thank you very much. I'm just having a moment, I guess, and felt kind of panicky.

It seems like it has been an LB'er in the past because nothing constructive seems to come from it. He winds up feelings bad - then goes on and on about what a failure he is, even the times (few) that I have expressed my feelings in a respectful way.

If nothing good can come of it, I just wondered if I should just learn to deal with it and try to move past it.

Marriage is about intimacy. I have always defined intimacy as being able to be open and honest yet being able to feel safe and secure. Can you create and environment of communication that does that? If you can even though you are expressing anger, then it's ok to do so.

One mistake people make in expressing themselves is they start saying you did this, you did that. What they should talk about is feelings. I feel hurt. I feel rejected. I feel neglected. If you start out saying something like you went off to the movies without me. SO? But if you say, I felt left out the night because I really wanted to be with you. Doesn't that say a lot more?

Past feelings are ok to talk about, they need to be resolved to move forward. In all your conversations ask the other person if its ok to talk. Ask them to listen. I sometimes say, just listen, I just want you to hear me for a while.

The best conversation is the both of you can learn to take turns speaking and listening. Giving each the opportunity to express themselves. Never, never plan what you are going to say when the other person is talking. It's rude, you miss that the other person is saying, it builds your emotions, and you cut the other person off.

The best quote in the bible says, be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger.

Those sound like good guidelines.

Thank you VERY MUCH.

You said:



My H has appreciated when I showed sensitivity and compassion towards him prior to expressing my negative feelings:

I say something like: "I know this may be hard for you.." of "I know this might hurt your feelings..." or "This might make you mad.." but "I need to know..." "I need to UNDERSTAND...

I express this in a way that he doesn't feel attacked..making it MY NEED to help MYSELF rather than a NEED to PUNISH or HURT him...

My H feels real guilty about his A and is very sensitive about being "BEAT UP"..However, he understands my need to know and my anger and sadness about things..

I've learned, too, that there are certain things that I do need to "LET GO"...

It's been important for me to figure out what I need to know and what needs to be left buried in the past...

Showing sensitivity and compassion prior to expressing your feelings sounds like a good idea.



How do you decide?

I agree with Mimi that it does man a difference for a man when he feels that he is listening to the feelings of his wife. My wife was after me about finishing a project at the house, which finally got me angry. But then she finally said, "I just don't feel appreciated because I need this done for me." Well that changed the whole tune of the arguement and I paused and said I'm sorry, I didn't understand what this arguement was about until just now. So I think Mimi makes a good point.

I've learned that it is best to focus on learning about aspects of the A that will help US. When I specifically address the issues as being about US, he is more responsive and open.

It is more hurtful to our present relationship to learn more now about sordid details that do not apply to US now.

I used to want to learn about irrelevant stuff...like what they ate for dinner...

What kinds of things are making you angry now?

My anger has subsided in talking to you guys. Now it's just plain old hurt, which is what it probably started as. I am hurt because:

His avoidance of talking about anything having to do with the A feels like he is running from it, while I am left behind. It's not so much the details that I want as much as a desire for him to face it. Unfortunately, he can't accomplish that without giving details and I greatly fear the details.

I asked a lot of questions in the beginning. I got a lot of half-truths and even more lies. Those lies have not been corrected. I am angry about that. I feel like I don't even know exactly what it is I'm trying to "get over" and still somewhat deceived.

I am hurt and scared because being honest seems to be quite a challenge for him. I understand, but it still scares me.

I am hurt that he would have rather been with someone else than to have just been honest with me. I am hurt that he even wanted someone else.

That's a start.

How do you know that he has not faced it..is not facing it?

Has he said that he is sorry to you?

I'm sorry..I'm not familiar with your story....

I will share that I came to learn that there were many things that I did not need to know..the truth about some things was more painful than I could handle...he was rightly protecting me as Hs protect their wives...

Infidels are at the gates of ******..what happens there is ugly, nasty and smelly...

Back to my definition of intimacy, open and honest, yet feeling safe and secure. For whatever reason your husband must not feel safe and secure to share his feelings. It does not even have to be something you are doing, it could be some emotional barrier he developed in childhood.

Now, if you could just say to your husband, I would like you to just sit and listen. I don't want you to do anything. You don't have to respond. I'm not expecting anything out of you except to hear me. I just want you to know what I am feeling and comfort me.

Now how could someone reject listening to you when you ask them to listen to your feelings and comfort you?

Then try not to say YOU, try to say just like you did, I feel.....

Say I am hurt that there was someone else besides me. I am hurt that there we couldn't have honest communication between us. (If you need to discuss him, use and inclusive "WE" or "OUR".) I am hurt and scared because of what has happened in our lives. (Stay away from specific details, keep to feelings, it makes it harder for the other person to come back to argue when you are talking feelings are opposed to specifics). It would help me to have honesty and intimacy in our lives. I want us to have a healthy and open relationship where we can share with each other. But to do that I feel I need to know the truth and I'm willing to listen in and open, caring manner (and you have to follow through, no attacks, again creating a safe environment for him to talk.) I feel I have dealt with half truths and they hurt and I want to get past all that. What do I can I do to listen?

I wanted to add this. Sometimes the reason the WH does not want to open up is they fear creating more pain, not only for themselves, but for the BS. It's that fear that holds them back from discussing that affair.

I'm a recovering SA and I can stand in front a group of men or women and talk about my addiction, what I did, the pain I caused, and even the details. But I struggle talking about the details with my wife because I know the pain it causes her. And when I sense any pain in her, I start shutting the converation about my affairs down. For me it goes back to my childhood of protecting my mothers emotions and it still comes back as an adult. Even with counseling I still struggle with it.

Frozen:

I know where you are coming from because after D-Day my FWW had a huge sense of relief and really just wanted to move forward. On the other hand, the pain and hurt was fresh for me and I needed to UNDERSTAND....why, where, what was she thinking. Although one of my boundaries after D-Day was that we both adopt a policy of Radical Honesty and POJA and she was sincere about both, when issues regarding the A started to come up, she began to withdrawal again. Sometimes even get resentful that I brought it up.

After several of our IC sessions, I began to learn to frame things differently. One of the techniques that I often use is to discuss the A really in almost a third person. As an example, she knows I read from this site daily. If I feel like there is an additional need for information from her, I often say "I was reading something on MB today that surprised me or that I did not understand.....(whatever the question is) and then ask her if she felt in a similar way or why the the WS would do or say whatever it was. This has really opened up her ability to discuss the A because it creates an environment where that I am not pointing my finger back at her for what she did.

Another rule that we implemented after Radical Honesty was that we would openly discuss anything that the other person brought up, with only the full truth. However, at any point if one of us got really uncomfortable with the discussion we could call it off and agree to take it up at another time. There is a risk in this approach with the WS. That gives them time to think about their answers and what they want to tell you. But the good part of this is that it avoid the escalation of emotions when we discuss things that are truly painful for either of us and we stay away from outbursts until we get our emotions back where they need to be.

In my opinion, the most important criteria that my FWW had to subscribe to with no exception was radical honesty. An A is inherently dishonest and she had followed that up for many years with other dishonesty. As she told me yesterday, if you can lie to your S about having sex with another man, it becomes pretty easy to lie about spending $ 50 on a new purse. Because of the dishonesty in our R for so many years (ten years after NC until D-Day), she knows that any further dishonesty is a deal breaker for me. She has learned know instead of complicating the matter further with additional lies or half-truths to be able to ask me to explain why it is important that I know that or can we address this another day when I am feeling better. I respect that decision because we always come back to it at some point. We know longer sweep anything under the rug. We just chose to address things at more appropriate times.

The other thing I have learned maybe because we are so far away from the AE, is that it is not just the WS that rewrites marital history. We have had to discuss the things that led up to the A. It was a long time ago and we both have different memories of those times. Sometimes we have different versions of what happened back then but I really believe that we are probably both right. We just chose to remember different things.

Creating an environment where the WS is safe to openly communicate is the key to recovery of a M in my opinion. The BS has a right to know whatever they want to know as long as the purpose is to help them work through their pain and understand why the event happened and how that both can change in the future to prevent it from happening again. The WS often wants to sugarcoat or sweep things under the rug as not meaningful because their shame and guilt is easier to deal with if they don't regirgatate the information. In order for them to really own the A and to forgive themselves which will help their BS heal and forgive, they have to be able to understand fully the deplorable act they engaged in and how that they were able to rationalize that it was okay in order to change their traits to ensure that that pain will never have to be realized again.

Ask, no disrespect intended here but I think that is more of a justification by the WS than a real reason to keep from discussing. If the BS creates a safe environment to discuss what they need to know about the A, holding anything back is further insult to the BS. Especially if they (like me) have a vivid imagination and many pieces are left out of the puzzle, it is more painful to not know than it is to know everything. During our early times, I imagined things far worse than the reality of what happened. My FWW used the same excuse for not sharing certain things on D-Day, length of the A as an example. Her rationalization was that she betrayed me. What difference did it make if that was once or fifty times. Only after we got to a point of true radical honesty did we get where that certain questions didn't even need to be asked because I knew she would tell me the answer and I really didn't want to know.