CLO,

I couldn't reply on your thread to FCF... and thank you FCF and KA for sticking up for me, but it isn't really neceassry.

I wasn't looking for anomosity or slamming. Oh sure, it makes me chuckle, because it is human nature, but I don't have any ill feelings toward CLO. Making me an example of a thread that has obviously struck a chord within you might not be fair, but what is fair, eh?

I wish to offer you a explaination.

The OW is not a good person. She is not a woman who simply made a mistake..she's made many and they have greatly affected others detrimentally. My H is NOT her first A. She has a severly handicapped child already, she was completely aware of the consequences, as is/was her H. THEY, her H and her, were able to NOT have any more children within their marriage, weren't they?

So here comes her next indescretion. My stupid, STUPID H. Mid-life crisis, maybe. All the sudden P ? and AFTER the EA had ended 6 months prior? She saw my H and I at a local function being a happy family and SHE came back after him. He is to blame as well.

The ENTIRE duration of this ordeal of the P, which wasn't long for me as they hid it, the justification of this all was the "blessing" of a HEALTHY child to make this mess worthwhile. My H was to be the best father he could to OC, while no longer being involved with her, but renewing his committment to my COM and I as a family. She supposedly understood this....think perhaps she was waiting for me to take off so she could get the man? Seems funny that after I stayed, she broke off C as far as the OC would be concerned. AND, they waited until it was too late to do anything to tell either her H and I. She hide it AMAZINGLY well from both of us, though many in the town knew.

This OW had my STUPID, pants-losing H, CERTAIN that his sperm could overcome her difficulites. During her P, she had to maintain weekly injections to assure that this P was viable. The physical problems are all HER.


No ma'am.. I do not think my H ever intended for her to get P. I think he thought she could not. I am certain that she did it on purpose. 33 year old mothers who have a special needs child already know how NOT to get P. It was no accident, but her IQ is such, that she thought she knew better than Drs and that this P and the OC would get her my H.

It all backfired, didn't it?

Yes, she is back with her H. Yes, her H is on the BC, though DNA has been established. I have not been told that there are any works in order to change that legality. Her H must be a saint.. but they do have an 8 year old son, who is normal, although he has struggled with health at the beginning and is painfully small to be concerned with.

Her H, his words to me, was that this whole thing was unfair to his son and that maybe he should take her back for the sake of his son.

I have no feeling for their M.. none. I don't care. Why should this woman have ANYBODY to care for her in this world, when she cares about no one.

It was the OW and her H's decision to have NC, I am sure. AND>>AND>> AND>> it was not to rebuild their marriage. It was to prevent further fooling around between these two liars.

And you ask why? Well, the A was supposedly over. I truly think it was..and look what happened. Oh, yes, I think my H has learned his lesson, I don't believe in my heart, that he's going to do anything this STUPID again. But do you honestly think her H trusts either her or my H ?

And why should he. I hope he has her chained up in their basement with a chastity belt on.

Being honest.

Now, do you see my "need' for knowledge to know IF this child is healthy or not? I am not asking for medical records. I just want the truth, so that I do not find it out on the street. It's a small town, everybody knows, because she was so verbal abou it all and didn't give a rat's hinder about my COM or I during all of this.

I wonder why no one has seen this OC ?

Poetic justice for both of them ? Karma ?


Not for me to decide.

Thanks for reading.

Eibrab

Eibrab,
Thank you for the post. I have read your posts over the last few months over at the fourm which referred you here for support so I am familiar with your story.
I do think the MOW and her BH are NC for their M and yes, I agree, it includes preventing the A from rekindling.

I realise that you have not called the OW for information. I hope you can see that until your H makes his parentage legal, you nor your H will be able to get that information unless the OW or her H offers it. Many of the BW's here keep saying that DNA has proven he's the father (which it has) but that piece of paper has no legal value until a judge has stamped it and that is what I'm trying to help you understand. You and your H can have C if you want C. You and your H can have access to medical information if you want medical information. However, you must first file for legal rights through the courts.

If you truly want information and C, then this is the only way to go about it- LEGALLY.

Best of luck to you.

ROTFLMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

FYI CLO.

I was completely able to call the medical institution providing the services being charges to my H's health insurance plan for his child - as far as they are concerned - and they will be sending a detailed billing to my H at his address for all billed services to his account.

This is NOT a medical history, nor records. But detailed billing of services...and I wasn't even questioned as to the legality.

I am above the law and will be. Possibly having the OC on my h's health plan is a huge mistake for the OW and her H if they don't want us to know, eh?

Money runs people. The other couple in this situation are affluent. And, I'm sure this is punishment for my H. While, it affects me and my COM, I do not feel he deserves to get off scott free.

I, however, am not a stupid woman....LOL, ok in MOST things.. and I will get the info I want.

If it harms her M that I seek knowledge, so be it. I'm not doing anything illegal. And, you must understand that it is not up to me to have C. That decision was made without me.

This was forced on me, and I don't have to sweep it under a rug if I don't wish to. Do I run around town telling what I know?

Absolutely not. But it does help in MY, yes MY, healing to know that I was right all along.

And in MY healing, the healing of my M can continue.

At least I hope.

If anybody wants to throw eggs or TP a house this Halloween, I can give you an address in northern Ohio.

And it's a big, fancy easy target.. *grin*

Eibrab

Now explain how this will help you recover your M.

I'm very interested in your answer.

Remember, the question is how this will help you recover your M.

Because I need the knowledge for MY healing, and I'm not able to get it elsewhere.

If I can't heal myself, I can't work on my M.

And based on MB principles, how does this knowledge that you think you need so desperately help you heal?

You are looking in the wrong place.

Trust me, you can get every single piece of information you think you need, and the fact remains that you and your H have formed NO POJA.

You're just along for the ride. Your H made whatever decisions he has, without your knowledge or consent, you have no say, you have no input.

THIS IS WHAT IS PREVENTING YOU FROM HEALING.

Your transfering all this onto the health of the OC which has absolutely NOTHING to do with you or your M.

THINK BIGGER.

You're latching onto these medical bills like some magic wand, and you're going to be sadly disappointed when you don't get the result your looking for.

STOP THE CHAOS.

Let's assume the very worst...okay... let's go the extreme here.... let's say hypothetically, I know your XOW, and I come back and tell you, oh you were so right, the OC is severaly handicapped, it has this illness, this ailment, this is wrong, blah blah blah blah blah.

Now.... how does this affect your M?

"You're latching onto these medical bills like some magic wand, and you're going to be sadly disappointed when you don't get the result your looking for"

I am not looking for a result. I am looking for knowledge. And there is no magic wand anywhere in this. There is truth and there is lies. There's been alot of lies.


I'm working on healing myself first and foremost. My M is part of me, therefore it is all inclusive in my opinion.

One day, my 13 DD came home from school in tears.. she skipped her athletic practice and all. I followed her to her room and asked about it. Seems one of her friends asked her in front of a bunch of kids about her dad's girlfriend having a baby.

HER DAD's GIRLFRIEND.


How did this child find out ? The OW told that child's mother. Guess what ? The OW's normal son thinks that his father is the OC's dad. She chose to protect her own. She never cared about my COM, nor did their very own father. He followed the school of thought that he messed up and was going to have to step up to the plate. She changed the shots in the end.

My H was wittness to this episode. He simply hung his head and said he was sorry. That's all.

So, you see, building my M back up may be all up to me...soley me. It may work, it may not. It may be all MY effort. So be it. I have heard that, with faith, one person can move a mountain.

My H is a big man. I am a bigger force, than he'll ever be in my strength. He may call the shots, but I have the endurance. If he wanted this OW and this OC, he'd be with them.

I see changes in H. The chaos you speak of regarding this has seemingly been stirred up within this board, not within my home.

Maybe MB won't welcome me here, if my H isn't part of this. I don't feel like we are at a point where I can demand any written agreements. It may come.

It takes time for some folks to see what others can immediately recognize.

I believe I have a right to know the condition of this child...and that is all I have asked.


I am not harming anyone.

If you'd like to reread my original post, maybe ( and I mean this very politely) you missed that this whole ordeal has been justified by the "blessing" of a healthy OC.

BS..and I don't mean betrayed spouse.

The sooner we get that little bit of info out of the way... the sooner we can all see black and white, right?

Just my opinion and it is typed with great respect.

Eibrab

eirab, when you say it was justified by the fact (or fallacy) of having a healthy child, what do you mean? do you think she got pregnant on purpose thinking that she would have a healthy child with your h? has she admitted that to you? or was you h justifiying himself with the pregnacy i.e "i did a bad thing but something wonderful has come out of it" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

also, do you think that with getting the medical info, you might be able to break through your h's wall of silence? do you think that might be why it is important to you? you said you and your h were not having contact because xow and her h had decided not to allow it. Given your h's attitude i just wondered if maybe the medical info was a way you were hoping to force conversation with your h and make him see reality.

oh an finally...you are very welcome here so dont you even think about disappearing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Carolyn,

I think both are true. I do believe OW was stupid enough to get P on purpose, and felt that she knew more than all the DRs. I also know..admitted by my H, that she thought this would get her "him".

I think my H felt he could justify this whole mess knowing my love of children. "well, look.. at least we'll (the OW and H) will have a HEALTHY child, that's all that matters now..what's done is done".

I hugely appreciate what you said in your last paragraph. Maybe I am not wording this all correctly. I am NOT just being nosey. I think it is important that we all know what is wrong with this OC, whether we have contact or not. Especially since we are paying the medical bills.

Someone called my H Mr. Invincible. I think the whole beginning of any healing is him realizing that he is not. I see it...but change takes time.

Thank you for understanding.

Eibrab

Eibrab,

I think betrayedinjersey has a good point. This information about the OC won't help repair your marriage (I read at the otherchild board that he is really your ex-husband and you are no longer M?). Why do you feel that you can't do a POJA with your (ex)H? Do you and your (ex)H plan on getting remarried and moving forward?

Nek

That statement is just sad to me.

The health of that child has nothing to do with your M, today, tomorrow or in the future.

If your H doesn't want to pay for the medical expenses, get the OC off the insurance, and have OWH cover the child.

Why does OWH get to call the shots for YOUR household?

Stop chasing your tail. I don't think your H cares a bit about the health of this child one way or the other.

Regardless of the health of the child, it's still your H, or xH (if I read that right) child.

Clearly the OW and OWH are in POJA about this child.

This is all very confusing to me.

NC is NC. You're either going to go with it, or not. You can't keep jumping back and forth.

You still haven't explained how this will help recover your M.

I don't even know how it could possibly help you.

As to your DD, I'm sorry she had to go through that, but this is the reality of an A. It hurts the whole family. Nobody is immune to it.

THAT IS WHERE YOU FOCUS SHOULD BE...YOUR OWN FAMILY...NOT OW.

Nek..

I see this is your first post.

If you check the dates on the original posts as opposed to when I found this board wou will notice that he went from being my ex to my H. We were never apart physically for very long. We have worked together in our business for over 19 years, and I don't think there is a person in this town who even knew or thought we were ever divorced.

During that seperation, if you need to know, I never dated. I found you very interested in my life on the other board, so I thought I'd share that with you.

Eibrab

Betrayed..

I have offered you my feelings and explainations to the best of my abilities and beliefs. I have begun to think you are simply harrassing me rather than trying to understand or help. I want to heal, so I will not be answering any more of your questions. I don't even feel sorry about it.

My focus in this ENTIRE discussion on all threads has been knowing the condition of the OC. I have never asked for medical records or such. I have never said, even once, that my H doesn't wish to pay for the health insurance or that I wish for him to stop doing so. It may not be the best thing, but that is speculation for the future.

As far as the OW and her H... do you really think they have a POJA regarding this child? Hmm.. NC, but they want my H to provide insurance.. come on.

You know as well as I do from the limited information provided to both you and I, that she didn't get what she wanted. Went back to a man she knew she could get...and if neither OW nor her H was worried about NC, they wouldn't have my H providing insurance, now would they?

With my H providing insurance, they lost their right to me not knowing the health in a grand scale of this child.

As far as my focus, as you so richly insulted... I don't care nor have I asked about the condition of the OW, her H, their M or even contacted them in any way shape or form.

She did try to call me 1x since the birth of his OC. I refused to answer. She left me a harrassing mesage. This ws BEFORE she moved back in with her H.

NC, at their request, is what they have been granted from me.

Pardon me for not saying to you, and a few others here.... "hey, the OC in my life may be a total invalid, with not alot to contribute to society, but I don't give a rat's hinder".

Instead, I'd like to know what we're paying for.

Eibrab

I'm sorry you feel I'm harrassing you. I'm pretty sure you won't find another person in all of MB that would agree with that statement, and I've been here quite awhile.



I've never insulted you in any way. I've tried to draw you back to the real issue at hand, but you're clearly far too focused on the OC and what your paying for.

You have not mentioned once what your H wants to do about this, if anything.

This obsession that I see unfolding will take away from where your focus really needs to be.

Recovering from an A is damned hard work, you need to throw out all the useless stuff and focus on the real issues.

POJA is one of them. While your spinning your wheels, you're not getting any closer to your real goal.

And clearly the OW and OWH HAVE come to a POJA that suits their needs for their M.

You've complained about the lies, if your H isn't prepared to sit down and tell you the truth, you have to focus on THAT.

But I won't post to you anymore, I'm pretty versed on the MB principles, and how to recover from an A, but if you're not interested, you're not interested.

best of luck to you.

Let's say you find out about the general health condition of the OC. Let's say he has multiple, chronic, health problems. OK...you have the information you wanted. Your H's justification of the whole mess isn't true. So....???
This will help you heal in what way? Is it about all the secrecy in an affair and you're not going to tolerate another unknown? Is it about wanting a level playing ground with the xOW, her MM, and your H.? Is it about not wanting to hear information second hand? Being blindsided when you least expect it? Since you live in a small town that's more likely to happen.

I don't live in a small town, but my xWS and his OW were big into the Recovery movement(AA/NA). They met up at AA/NA 12 Step meetings! When I finally found out what was happening, I also found out that most of their peers in Recovery knew more about the situation than myself! My job at that time involved working with people who had substance abuse problems. Some of my staff were in Recovery. They went to the same meetings as my xWS and the OW. I was always getting blind-sided by someone bringing up a piece of information I knew nothing of. And, my xWS and I were supposedly working on reconciliation! As it turned out, their OC was born with Down Syndrome. I heard about the date of the OC's birth and this condition from a co-worker! I often felt like people must be getting a real good laugh...or feelings of disgust...towards me. Of course, what most of them didn't know was the my xWS and I were still married at the time the OC was born! He presented himself as divorced.


Let's say the OC is wonderfully healthy. OK, you have that information. Would you be at peace then with regards to the OC?

You bring up the additional issue of having the right to know about the OC's health condition since your husband is paying for his insurance. Your H. is the one stopping this from happening! He chose NC. He made the decision about covering health insurance and not child support. He made the decision to not claim any legal rights to this child, (which would include the right to access the OC's medical records)while knowing that it is his biological child. If you need this information to heal, who is the person that controls the access? YOUR H.!!

So, is this about wanting your H. to honor your feelings by providing this information....information that he doesn't want to know or share with you? Perhaps this issue is the "testing ground" , per se, of your H's willingness to make changes that will help you heal? (One of those changes being respecting your thoughts, feelings, needs, etc.) He ain't doing so well, so far!

It can feel much safer handling an issue by distancing it from oneself. So, instead of an ongoing battle with your H.....one where he's been violent...it's safer to direct the problem outward towards not knowing the OC's health condition.

The link that you consistently make with the OC's health is how your H. told you that this would be the one blessing of the affair. Let's say he's wrong. What's your next step in using this piece of information to help heal yourself? Do you see it as helping strengthen your case with your H. in terms of him respecting your thoughts and opinions?

Again, I'm just sharing some of my thoughts. They may not be at all relevant or accurate.

Again, HM

I want to heal. This latest blow has been awful for me. As I stated before, I don't think H knows anything more than I do, though he may have known sooner.

I have NOT complained about carrying the insurance. Not one bit. I have NOT asked for OC's medical records. Will people stop saying that? I want to know what folks on the street will know.

Why is that so horrible of me?

There is no problem "divertion" blaming the health of the OC on things wrong between H and I. I wonder why everyone being so harsh on me for caring has missed the posts where things were so very good for all of us. It's ME that has the problem. I can't seem to get over things. H treats my COM and I FAR better than he ever has.

Posters keep bringing up violence. Someone explained that very well, I already thought. This is a horrible situation and two incidences occurred.

I cannot feel better about myself in all of this with people here continually telling what I do and do not need to know according to their opinions.

I cannot be like some of you. If the OC in my life died, I'd feel bad. (Strictly making a point) You are all proposing that I couldn't even shed a tear BECAUSE we have NC.

Again. I asked if anyone thought this child might be healthy or normal due to information I had sent to me. I have NOT asked for medical records. I have not asked about OW, her M, her H, their life.

I will tell you all this. When I was told about the P, I calmly said that this baby would be welcomed here. If she'd allow, we could raise it KNOWING full well what might happen and what this woman already handles. TWO special needs children are more than a woman like this can handle.

So please keep slapping me for being a kind, caring person.

Do I want C with the OW ? NO I DO NOT. If she dropped this OC off at my doorstep, I would raise it as my own. I cannot make my H care about this OC or eager to find out what might be wrong. I will NOT force C between my H and this OW.

And, I do not feel it is one bit wrong for me to care.

And, for that blasted question of how will this affect my M... Don't I have to be healthy for my M to be ?

In all truth, my M is doing better than I am at this point.

Eibrab

I'm not sure if in my current situation I am in any position to be giving advice, but I will say that in my opinion what you are trying to do is admirable. It is human nature to hope that people are healthy. I don't know you or anyone involved in this, but even I hope for the child's sake that he is ok. I can understand how it would help you to heal yourself to know what the health condition of this child is. It's not like you are asking to see his confidential medical records. All you are asking is if he is a healthy normal child, and as far as I can see there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sure that even if your H doesn't say he want's to know, somewhere in the back of his mind he is just as curious as you are. As far as the justification you think your H has...that is such BS (not betrayed spouse). Coming from me, and you know my story, there is no reason or justification what-so-ever for an A. Yes, children are blessings that should be cherised no matter how they came to be, but if ever he's even hinted that all should be forgotten just because of this child, especially considering that he claims to want nc with him, then he needs to come to grips with the fact that he was wrong, and needs to understand that no matter how wonderful the outcome (meaning the oc) is, that it was still a very hurtful thing, and that you as his wife have to right to know if his child is healthy.

Considering that you are paying the child's health insurance, does that mean that if God forbid the child was born with any type of health/birth defect, and were to die would you also be responsible for covering funeral costs? If so, then there is no reason at all for you to be denied the knowledge of how this child is doing. I'm not saying that you have the right to know everything that makes having a baby worthwhile...you know first tooth, rolling over, crawling etc, but you should be able to at least find out if he has a major problem. Personally I admire you for being so adament about this. Most BW would be the exact opposite. I wish you the best and hope beyond hope that you can find the answers you need before this becomes an unhealthy thing for you and your M. Good Luck.

(((((Eibrab)))))

big hugs girl. do me a favour and email me at step_mum32@yahoo.co.uk

i would like to talk to you off list.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hello E and all the other ladies,

Don't get stressed E. I really think that they are trying to help.

I have a question for you. If the child is severely handicapped, what does that mean? I mean does it mean that you and H will fight for Contact? What if the child is healthy?

Does the OW having a healthy child make this whole ordeal more understandable for you? or are you upset that your husband has not been as forthcoming with information?

I guess what I'm wondering is does this all have to do with honesty from your H?

E - Everything will be fine. We have been conversing for some time. You have to be one of the kindest people I have gotten to know on these boards. I really believe the other ladies are trying to be helpful. I don't think they understand your reasoning. I really don't think they are trying to be hurtful. Take your time, and when you have a minute really write what your feeling. Whatever it is, it is ok.

I'm praying for you. It will all work out.