I am a current ww seeking some insight and advice. I have been reading everything that I can on this board for the last week or so and decided that today is the day. Most of my story is the same old same old you all hear on here every day with a difference or two. I will try to give the short version.

Married 13 years and now separated for 6 months, 2 kids-5yo and 22 months. I noticed a change (looking back) in marriage while I was very early pregnant with second child. It was the usual emotional abandonment, no conversation, no connection, no sf at all. We grew apart gradually over the next months. He even quit sleeping in the same bed. Don't suggest that he was having an A, not even in the realm of possiblilty. side note: I was truely just friends (at that time) with a co-worker who was leaving his job and moving away. When he left there was a big void and I realized how much I had depended on him for my EN without knowing it. That is when I first saw the rift in my marriage and begin to work to repair it. I felt bad because I should have depended on H to fill EN and unknowingly let someone else do it. I did not feel bad about relationship with OM then because it was innocent then, it just made me realize that I DID want to be closer to someone and that someone was my H! I wanted to draw my H closer and have him fill those needs. I told him I needed him and that we weren't as close as we used to be and I wanted to change that. He agreed but did nothing, talked less and less and withdrew from me almost totally. I was having no contact with OM AT ALL.
Realization came in late July 2004. I tried not to nag or smother, but I was needy and I wanted him. He would not allow that to happen. It was like he was just ignoring me and the whole situation. He kept telling me that I needed to get some medication, or go see a doctor because I was "sick". Forgot B-day, no gift at X-mas (not even from the kids). It wasn't the material "gifts", he didn't even have the kids hand me a .02 candy cane I felt like I was giving everything I had and he was the one who was supposed to care about me more than anyone else. I felt abandoned and realized it. I had the big heart to heart and cried a river of tears. I told him that I was lonely and how abandoned I felt and that I thought we had real problems and begged for MC. He had no reaction to that conversation at all, just sat and stared at me. When it was all said and done, his only statement was that maybe I would feel better in the morning and then went to sleep in the other room. It was a cry for help on my part, and I outright said that.

Things definately did NOT get any better after that. He took on a second job saying that more money would "help things out" I said "no more time would help things out, I need you and miss you as it is". He said that I would be all right and went on about his business.
OM comes back into picture. He completed training in other city and got assignment in a city 1 hr away. He moved there, his w stayed in this town no separation, just married and living apart. Anyway, he dropped by since he was in town to say hey. He knew nothing of marital problems lately or my realization that he was filling EN for me. We were always close and he could tell something was wrong. I had been there for him thru a previous divorce and tried to discourage him from marrying current w. So I get his new numbers and new e-mail and we send a few jokes and "what's going on" type e-mails. Cut to the chase... H and I had a huge fight, mostly I had a huge fight because he did not acknowlege that I had even spoken, much less cried and left. I went to the grocery store and ran into OM. He could tell I was upset and was understanding. Gave me advice that I should stick it out and try to get him to understand how I was feeling. He had been thru a d already and this one wasn't looking too good for him either. We kept in touch after that and the e-mails got more and more personal.

The big EA sneaking up on me. I know I allowed it to happen, call me stupid, or whatever, what was done was done and I did not know what an EA was until I started reading about it here. I am guilty as charged. So enough details on that, I will elaborate on anything anyone wants to know, but am running out of time to get to my point today.

So letting OM fill EN and H continued to withdraw. I even told H that people were gossiping that there was something going on with OM to get a reaction to try and make him jealous...nothing. In April, big argument. During that (one-sided) discussion there was a fish swimming around in the bowl jumping up for food. He always fed the fish, and I said when was the last time you fed the fish? I don't know an hour later, the fish is slapping water out of the bowl --when was the last time you fed the fish? I don't know A couple of hours later, I asked again I'll be all right, don't worry about it told him that the fish was going to die just like me if he didn't feed it. I honestly felt like I was the fish in the bowl swinning around begging to be fed and giving the right clues that I was starving to death and he thought "I'd be all right" and after that fish died, he could not even pour in the whole can of food to bring it back to life. I started to pack and he watched, begging me to stay. i said I can't do this with you watching, so he went out the door saying to me I don't want you to go. I had no choice at that point.

Fast forward 6 months later. He wants me to come back, and I am afraid to. Yes I am still seeing OM, but not like I was, we are moving back into the just friends mode I believe because it was too much of a hassle sneaking around and being paranoid all the time. The Om did not cause me to move out and whether or not he is in the picture will not effect me going back or not.

H says he will only work on things if I move back in, I can't move back in until I can trust his actions or reactions. He had never yelled at me in the marriage, but suddenly it is acceptable to yell at me even in front of our kids. I can not tolerate that. I don't want to drag them around in and out, I want to feel like I will be able to stay in that house if I could even go back. He says he is willing to do anything, but all he actually does are the love busters every body here talks about. He yells and stalks and alternated between furious and pitiful. I have told him that I just want to feel needed by him and that I could count on him to be there for me. He says he can and will and then yells at me before the conversation is over. Suggestions... besides the obvious to NC with OM?
I know there is a ton more I need to put in this to have it all make sense, but time is up and I have to go.

Thanks in advance from a current ww who needs help.
Tiny <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

"I had been there for him thru a previous divorce and tried to discourage him from marrying current w."

Don't have much to say on that one. Whew, It's just sooo wrong.

~

I'm not taking up for your hubby, but I know the feeling of being furious and pitiful at the same time. I can also relate to you as well. Been on boths sides and let me tell you it's a lot harder than being on just one side because I PUT myself on the other side and have to live with that fact.

I could have just left instead of becoming an adulterer. So have could you. Why didn't we?

If he's willing to trust YOU, then you should be willing to trust HIM, see what happens. He's probably very right that things won't work out unless you move back it.

It does sound like he needs to start meeting your needs though. I know I wasn't meeting my wife's, and she told me that over and over and even tried to get me jealous too.

Her six mo affair finally awakened me to realize I couldn't just take her for granted.

He wasn't meeting your needs but that doesn't justify you have an A. Sorry if harsh but just the fact of the matter. You may have an opportunity to salvage your M. Both you and your husband were responsible for the state of the marriage prior to the affair but you alone are responsible for making the fatal choice to have your needs outside the M. If your H wanted to leave you because of your choice, it is well within his right to do so.

However, you may have been given another chance. If you both want to recommit to your M, then it will take serious committment from both of you. Dump the OM, NC period. If you break NC, tell your BH immediately. Read this site on surviving an affair, EN, radical honesty policy and plan A and implement those immediately. Have him come here and encourage him to post. There are a lot of people here who have been where he is at and can help walk him through it.

You should expect that if he wants to work things out that he will learn to treat you respectfully, but asking him to not have any feelings, anger or resentment towards what you have done is irrationale. He will have all of those. Hopefully, if he will come here and learn about MB principles he will find that he will can become a better person, regain his self respect and in the process you can enjoy a M relationship that you both thought previously was impossible.

I agree that in order to have this opportunity, you need to move back. But before that happens, you need to dump OM completely even if that means quitting your job, be totally honest with him and tell him whatever details of the A that he needs to know in order to heal and take ownership of what you did.

Hi tiny89, welcome to MB.

if you don't mind, i have a few questions:

did the relationship turn physical with OM?

if so, does your H know?

does your H know that you are emotionally invested in the OM?

what about the OM's wife?

i'm glad you are here. please keep posting, there is so much to be learned here that can make a big difference in your life.

The affair and your marriage are two separate issues.

The affiar must end. Until you end it, you are in adultery...even if yo uare no longer having sex. You must go no contact on this guy forever. You must do this for YOU. Your affair was your choice...a very bad choice. even though your husband was a horrible husband, it still doesnt equal you making this horrible choice. You must own up to this by ending things immediately and getting through the withdrawal fro mthe OM. There is NO WAY your marriage can move forward one bit until OM is out of the picture and you have gone thru withdrawal. If you have read on here enough, you will knwo this to be true.

Now, ONCE you end the affair...then you can deal with your marriage. And that needs to be dealt with thru counseling. I suggest Steve Harley on this website. Or find a pro-marriage counselor in your area. Many marriage counslors are not pro-marriage, so you will have to be careful. You and your husband must deal with your issues and what led you to this point. It will take awhile.

You want trust first, right? Not gonna happen. neither of you trust the other and for good reason! But trust is not what you need right now. What you need is commitment (which is why the OM must be gone FIRST) and a plan. And the plan can be put together with the help of the good folks here, a good marriage counselor. But the commitment must come from the two of you.

If you want your marriage, you have things to do that have nothing to do with your husband. You must end the affair and never see or speak to the OM. You must get into counseling. Then you can approach your husband about reconciliation. Like I said, Steve Harley is a pro at this stuff and helping you deal with the issues and come up with a plan.

So, there is your solution. Or you can continue to wait for trust or whatever else. But not following the tried-and-true recovery actions I have spelled out here will only lead to one thing...and that is divorce.

In His arms.

did the relationship turn physical with OM? Yes, it did.

if so, does your H know? No

does your H know that you are emotionally invested in the OM? Yes he does. H is aware of OM, knows him and hates him. He has told me that he can not compete with OM to fill EN. H says that he is a "quiet" person and he will not change. "Quiet" is not the problem, total neglect is the issue here.

what about the OM's wife? OM's w is aware of me as well. They have had a strange arrangement, haven not lived under the same roof in over a year and a half. He comes back one day on the weekends sometimes, or he did. I think they are doing the separation thing right now. I haven't talked to him much lately, so I really don't know about it all. I think it may have something to do with the fact that she followed me a couple of weeks ago when I was driving in the direction of where he lives. I was not going to see him, but she called my cell phone and left me a smart message.

I am not trying to justify what I have done. I am only trying to decide what I need to do with my life. I want someone who will be a partner and companion. I don't want a room mate. When I moved out, we were barely house mates. He was hiding things from me. I did not hide the relationship with OM as it was innocent at the time. It did go further, and I still did not hide the fact that we talked alot. H is not computer savvy at all, and would never be online, especially to "talk" to anyone about anything. He has mentioned a willingness to MC, but only with the pastor of the church he attends that we did attend together. I like the pastor, but he is of the thinking that the man is the king of the castle and ruler of the roost in all aspects and that a man should never be questioned. I could not even get H to make a decision on what he wanted to eat for supper. Everything was always left up to me to make EVERY decision.
I wanted him to be part of the decision to save our marrige and h said that it was my problem. Now I think I want him to help me to want to come home, but he still says that I "just need to decide what I am going to do and let him know". I really want a partnership, and I don't know if he is actually capable of having that kind of relationship or not.
I was so lonely when I lived in that house. I told him it would be easier to be alone by myself than to be alone with the person who is supposed to care about you the most. I sound like I am having a pity party, and I don't mean to. I am just so conflicted about the whole situation. I do not want to be a divorced mom of two kids. I do not want my kids to be statistics of the broken home. My 5yo says about the situation: I would rather be happy with you and be happy with Daddy than for you two to quarrel or not speak. I just feel like I don't know if I can be happy at all--- EVER-- no matter what happens from here on out. If I go back, things will return to that state of house mates which I can not live with. If I don't, then I will be alone, and I don't want to be alone. I am not looking to be with anyone else, I don't want to have the step-family thing. my kids don't need a daddy, they have one. he is a good dad, he just sucks at being a husband. I just want him to feel a little NEED to do something about all of this instead of saying for me just to decide that I will make everything ok.
OK, I feel like I am rambling now. I have forgotten what the other posters asked, I will re-read and post again without rambling. Thanks.

Tiny

tiny, we are listening. neglect is a really hard thing to deal with, i was very neglected too. i wish i had all the answers for you. i wanted to post because i know how bad you must be feeling right now. i fear i am too lost in my own thoughts today to be able to think clearly enough to give solid advice.

except for the advice... stick around here, there is so much to learn.

you can change and if you do, the dynamics of your relationship WILL change too.

one example, my H never made decisions either, i felt like it was ALL on me. and since i didn't see him doing it, i kept doing more and more. but all i was doing was enabling him to do less and less. one area that i have really focused on is about the kids. more and more, when they ask me something, i say, it is up to your dad. if i am unhappy about something that they have done, i talk to him, tell him how i feel about it but then ask him what he thinks and ask HIM to talk to the child. i have great kids, don't get me wrong, they don't need talking to often (well my son does regarding school work but that is another story..), they are great kids.

the point is, i see how my change is impacting my H, maybe i am imagining it, i dont really know, but he seems to be accepting the role of head of the household more.

things DO NOT have to go back to the way they were, YOU CHANGE and that will make a difference.

but MM is right, you must end all contact with this person. otherwise you will always have that side window you can be thinking about looking thru.

i lacked true commitment. 100% true commitment. and i realize now, that impacted everything, even while my H knew nothing about any As.

today is exactly 1 year since i confessed everything.

confessing is something you really need to consider doing tiny. not that i would of said that when i first came here, Dec 2003. and sometimes (just sometimes) i slightly wonder if confessing was a good idea. but then i think about what confessing did for me, for my character. and i realize it was manditory.

keep posting.

sounds like your H very much respected and trusted your decision-making


your adultery ... your infidelity is 100% your problem ... no way for your H to 'fix' that


your husband is not an abusive mean-spirited man ... he seems kind and hard working and quietly loyal .... he does not treat you with disrespect


You want to define your H's role ... haven't you noticed that?

You will only love him if he changes his essence ....



... why would your husband want to reconcile with a woman who does not meet HIS NEEDS?

what do you imagine your H's top 3 ENs are? I betcha anything one of them is [color:"red"] admiration [/color] .... how much have you expressed admiration for your husband in the last 5 years?

.... as in ....


what do you suck at?

Thank you FL. I don't even know if I am looking for advice or just validation that I was neglected. I don'teven REALLY think it is so much about the OM. OM knows totally that I want to go home and that I can't bear the thoughts of being away. It has been 6 months since I left, and no progress at all. Spent some time with H over the weekend. Friday night he yelled at me and told me that I was the "meanest person on Earth" because I wouldn't tell him what I was going to do. I can't just tell him because I don't know myself. Then on Saturday we all went to get Halloween costumes and he acted like nothing at all had ever happened, ignoring that there was ever a problem at all. Sunday he was mad at me because he tried to call me Saturday night and could not get me. I was at a girlfriends house adn left the cell in my vehicle, didn't think about anyone calling me that late (11:00 or so) He was super supicious and very grouchy with me. Later on in the day we spoke and he was just fine. I wondered if he called my friend to see if I was there, I think she would have told me, but I did not ask. I was where I said I was so it didn't matter. I am so afraid. I can't stand the thoughts of going thru any of this again. I told him that, and asked what I was supposed to do if I saw things headed in this direction again. his response? Just tell me. He**, I told him for over a year and finally sat him down and point blank said there were problems and he told me to go get some medication. I feel like the problems in our marriage were not a real problem until it was a problem for him which meant that I moved out. He has said that he is sorry he was so bad to me, and he was bad, he wasn't good, he just wasn't any way at all. I would say to him please give me 5 minutes and he would say "I don't have anything to say". I feel like all of this could have been stopped by 5 minutes a day and that he just did not think I was worth it. Why would he think I was worth it now, if he didn't think I was worth it when he was perfectly content the way it was the day before I moved out. he did not seem too care how miserable I was. It did not bother him to watch me cry while I washed dishes or to see how miserabley lonely I was. I have to work a littel. MOre later.
Tiny

Tiny,

Sorry but I'm with Pepperband on this one. It takes two to tango and having an A is never the way to respond to a problem in a M. There are hundreds of options available to you outside of an A to try before giving up on your M. Sounds more like you are still in a fog and rationalizing to yourself.

I hope you still respect yourself enough to sit down and really reflect on if you have done everything you could yourself to improve your relationship with your H. Or did someone else come into the picture that filled your needs easier for you? Marriages are work and require both parties to contribute and communicate their differences openly and honestly. End the A and tell your H and work on your M.

TO Pb, That was harsh, but deserved, I guess. The request to "save the marriage" was pre A. HE ignored. I made a wrong choice out of desperation or stupidity or whatever. I am to blame for that, he played no role in that part at all. But to my credit, before any of that happened, I BEGGED H, not anyone else, H to fill my EN. In return, I tried to fill his as well. I have asked him what he needed and how I can change for this to work out. Met each time by a brick wall. I am not stupid and I could see some of his EN and tried to fulfil those. H is kind and TOO-hardworking. Sometime, the marriage should be a priority over work. I think a w just out of surgery and alone should definately be a priority over work, but alas that was not "important enough". I don't suppose you consider refusal to communicate as disrespectful. I feel that it is. I guess I do want to define his role to some degree. I want him to take an active role more than anything else. I am not trying to be selfish here, I don't want him to make me be #1, I only want to rank somewhere between the yard work and what comes on tv tonight. I am sorry if I sound defensive, I don't mean to, I am just stressed as I know most everyone else on this board is as well.
Tiny

not harsh

was un-sweetened

Marriages are work and require both parties to contribute and communicate their differences openly and honestly

AMEN!!! AMEN!!!!!

My question is how do I get H to contribute and communicate ANYTHING openly and honestly?

Tiny

Have you read this book?

The Proper Care And Feeding Of Husbands

It would be of great benifit for you ... men are so simple ... and are easily pleased ... and you can guide your husband with kindness more than you can with a list of his failings...

I want your children to live under the same roof with 2 happy parents ... I promise if you read this book, you might see what you suck at more clearly ... and honestly, what you suck at is pretty typical of what most of us wives suck at ...

You cannot fix what your H sucks at ... but there is plenty for you to repair on your "what I suck at" list ...

just an older sisterly nudge ... you are not too far from a critical decision-making time ... and that involves you either being in or out of the marriage ... this limbo is killer

being where you are is miserable ... and listing your husband's failings will not mend what is hurting you ....

Okay...if what you say is true...then we get back to the first order of business.

When are you going to send No Contact letter to the OM, which needs to be written and approved by your husband?

Second, when are you going to come clean with your husband?

All of your desires and wants for yoru marriage may come true. Maybe he has seen the light because of this. Maybe not. But you wont know until he has the whole truth, and the OM is gone for good.

So, answer those two questions and we will knwo how to help you. Both those questions require action by only YOU. If you want this marriage to succeed, the first two steps lie with you...not your husband.

Also, one more thing. The harshness (unsweetened!) responses that you get right now are because we have been around here and know where you are at and what it will take. Some of the harshest responses will come to you from FWWs. Why? Because in the fog (and you still are...but you are looking to get out which is good), the only thing you will hear is harsh truth. If we rubbed your back and said "We understand how bad he treated you...its okay. There, there...", then we would just be enabling you.

Your husband must be told...and the affair must end with NC forever. Then you can assess your marriage together and see if you two can do what it takes to get the marriage you both want.

In His arms.

have you honestly and openly communicated the physical nature of your affair to your husband?

I can handle un-sweetened.... I think. I do suck at a lot too, I just wish he would tell me what he thinks I suck worst at or the top 5 so I could do something about it.
Tiny

you can't really change anyone tiny. it all starts with you.

but your question is very valid. one i asked myself over and over and if anyone would tell me to not worry about the other person, and just worry about myself, would just result in me having more frustrations. afterall, i was not the problem, HE WAS!!!

but something in the way YOU behave allows him to behave as he does.

crying while washing dishes is NOT the way to get him to care. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> (been there, done that, ha, still try to do it once and a while, continuing to learn it really DOES NOT WORK!!!!)

effective communication is key.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((Tiny )))