Yes, I'm another one of those creeps, as some of you consider us. My husband treated me like crap for 20 years, never paying attention to any of my needs. He wouldn't agree to counseling. Who HIM? HE didn't have a problem, I DID. Why should HE have to go? He refused to consider making any changes. He refused to talk to me. He refused to listen to me. He treated me like his maid, his caretaker, his sexual slave. He never cared if I got anything out of the sex or not. He got his needs taken care of, and left me laying there night after night. Why didn't I leave him you ask? For the same reason he didn't leave me. We both felt stuck together and figured, "oh well, what's the use."<P>Well, darn right, after a while I got real sick of this. And somebody else started listening to me, talking to me and making me feel good. This man cared for me and cared about MY FEELINGS. I fell in love with him. And now that my husband has found out, all of a sudden he is all broken up about it. He asks me "how could I?" Well, I could just like HE COULD treat me like crap for so long. Oh, he's paying attention to me now, but if I hadn't had an affair, he'd STILL be treating me like crap. Well, he is sure listening to me now. Oh, and he has finally, AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, agreed to attend counseling too. Hmmmm, go figure. <P>It's unreal how self righteous, holier than thou some of you people on this forum are. As if none of you have ever sinned in your lives. As if none of you have ever made any mistakes in your lives. As if any of you have ever walked in anyone else's shoes. You are probably showing that same stone-headed, stubborn attitude that you showed your spouses who cheated on you. Very few people cheat "just because." Most people cheat after living years with a spouse who treats them like crap. Well, blast away all you want. I'M GLAD I DID IT, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. He didn't listen but oh boy he's listening now. And sure, I'll give him another chance but if he becomes a [censored] again, I'll do it again.<P>Now, how's that for truth?

Everyone is entitled to their life and I'm sure you must have had much pain in your life.<P>It does not sound like there is much peace and joy in your heart or if you are even working towards that goal.<P>I hope your heart is softened and you do find hope and peace.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Yes, it may be truth...your truth, but it still doesn't make it right. You want your cake and eat it too.<P>It doesn't even sound like you are staying for financial reasons. So why DO you stay?<P>We're also hearing only one side of the story. Before making an evaluation of your situation, I'd want to hear the other side too.<P>You know, I'm a pretty darn good wife. Most of my friends say they'd NEVER cater to a man the way I do. But still, there are things I do that tick him off. I'm chronically anxious, I talk too much, for years I took him for granted, assuming he'd just be sitting on the couch while I went out; never gave him input into decisions. He never complained.<P>But you know what? For the most part (and it's not yet perfect, by any stretch), by changing MY behavior, I've changed his. He never ever bought me jewelry for anything; this year he got me earrings for my birthday and a necklace for our anniversary. Our sex life is better than ever. Overall, we're closer.<P>Maybe you're right. Maybe your H is the selfish nothing you say he is. But you know what? Even if you're right, that's the booby prize. What does it get you?<P>It seems silly to me for you to stay in a marriage that's so awful. Why not show some courage and either work on the marriage or end it...for both of your sake's.<P>Then you'll either have a better marriage or be free to find someone else.<P>It's one thing to make a mistake, as many of the betrayers here acknowledge. But to be completely unrepentant about it, well, it just strikes me as chickens**t to stay.

PodPerson,<BR>As FHL has said you appear to have no peace. I agree with her. Two wrongs never make a right. None of us claims to be self righteous. ALL have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. ALL will continue to sin until Satan is relinquished of his powers. No we do not blame you for what you did. Both you and your H were not communicating effectively. It is the lack of effective communication about our needs and wants (which are based on stories that only paint a glorious picture that will never be achieved) that leads to affairs. It is the nature of being human and not being able to see more of the picture.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited September 28, 1999).]

Have you met Carlton? He's unrepentant too. You all can compare notes.

Never mind<p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited September 28, 1999).]

PodPerson:<P>Well, I was gonna reply with a bunch of "shoulds" and "how could you's", but really, I don't think it would do anything except tick you off.<P>Let me just leave you with these thoughts.<P>1) This is a marriage BUILDERS board. If you're not interested in saving a marriage, then I don't think you belong here.<P>2) No matter HOW badly you're treated in a marriage, the Golden Rule STILL applies. You treat others the way you WANT to be treated.<P>3) If your H won't work with you to help save your marriage, you're better off getting out of it than having an affair. It is NEVER right in the eyes of God to break your marriage vows.<P>I hope you'll reconsider your position. I understand your anger, but I do NOT agree with your solution.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>Oh yeah, and as for MOST affairs? I'd like to see your statistics on the "years of being treated like crap." FYI, my wife and I were married only 3 1/2 years before her affair. I treated her like a queen. She had an affair when, for 8 weeks, I was stretched to the limit because I was studying for the bar exam. I knew she was getting short shrift from me for that time, but it was unavoidable at the time. <P>If you needed to have an affair to wake your H up, then clearly BOTH of you had serious communication problems in your marriage. While the affair probably did the trick, don't expect him to be so understanding if you resort to that type of extreme behavior again in the future.<P>I feel sorry for you. You have no idea how ridiculous your logic is in this regard.<P>[This message has been edited by Lone Star (edited September 28, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Lone Star (edited September 28, 1999).]

Perhaps you should go steal a car. They are so high priced now it's outrageous! And after all, you deserve it! The auto companies are just money gougers.<P>There is no justifiable reason to have an affair. There is no justifiable reason for your H to treat you like crap either. But as we are always told, two wrongs don't make a right. You want help. We'll give it to you if you are open to our thoughts.<P><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

Lone Star, well said, but I hope PodPerson stays. Jesus said that the world hated him and it would hate us also. I'm not offened by PodPerson and forgive because she doesn't understand what she's saying. No one here is acting or talking self-righteous that I have seen, for we all know as Christians who is the righteousness one. Not ourselves, we have all sinned, but we know the truth of the light, darkness cannot comprehend it. Truth sets us free, we welcome all to that truth, his name is Jesus! Please stay Pod, God loves you and so do we! Blessings, peace and love, Ginn

Ginn:<P>I don't hate PodPerson. I feel sorry for her. I, too, hope she stays so she can learn that this kind of behavior isn't healthy for her relationship with her H (even if it got her what she wanted this time).<P>I doubt, however, that I will be posting to her again until she learns to deal with the hatred and anger (and her OWN self-righteousness).<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Podperson, it is apparent that you are very angry at your husband.<P>Let me ask you something -- are you willing to work on your marriage now for real? Because not only does your husband need to change, but so do you. It takes two to make it work. I understand that you've been mistreated for alot of years and there is alot of anger and resentment built up. Do you think it will be worth it to save your marriage? If so, then I would suggest that you read all the material on this website. Also, look into the book "His Needs Her Needs". This site is fantastic for helping to rebuild a marriage. But you need to let go of your anger towards your husband. What do you really want to do right now? Get a good marriage back? Or continue to punish your husband?<P>Hopefully you're reading this far after all the nasty remarks you've gotten... I'm not judging you because you are a betrayer, I am one too. But you have got to make a commitment to marriageBUILD. That's what this site is all about!<P>--andy

No, I'm not "at peace," YET. Just like a lot of you, I have a lot of pain and anger inside of me. This is not EASY. And just because you all think I'm some creep who doesn't deserve to be angry or feel pain, too bad. Yes, this IS marriagebuilders, and finally I have a husband who is WILLING to shut his big mouth and LISTEN to what it takes to have a good marriage. FOR YEARS, he did the complete opposite. He was pig-headed, stubborn and REFUSED to go to counseling or do anything to make things right between us.<P>So, I AM all for rebuilding, are you? Is this forum really for rebuilding marriages or is it a place for people stuck on playing the victim? Because that's what it sounds like to me. I cannot believe the self-righteous attitudes of so many people here. <P>You say "do unto others?" Well, what about my husband? Did he do unto me in the way he'd want to be treated? No, he didn't. He treated me like crap and guess what, HE GOT TREATED LIKE CRAP TOO. Oh, so I guess that ignoring your spouse, sometimes giving them the silent treatment for days on end, not caring if they wanted sex or not, not spending any time to get to know their friends, not sharing any activities with them, are so much better than having an affair! Yeah right. Sorry, I'm not buying that. You're right, two wrongs DON'T make a right, and you know what, neither wrong is any better or any worse than the other.<P>You people are so stuck in believing that just because you did not cheat, you are better than your spouses. Well, wake up. Most of you have made BIG MISTAKES in your marriage too. Most of you have failed your spouses too. Oh, but you didn't cheat, god forbid! Well, that would make you a creep and scum like us. Give me a break! That is the type of self-righteous attitude I'm talking about. <P>And oh, Maya, you give me a break too. You cheated, but oh, you say you're sorry for it and that you ended it ONLY because you know that's what God wants, and that makes you BETTER THAN ME? Unreal! <P>I have sinned, and I have asked God for forgiveness for committing the sin of adultery. But that has NOTHING to do with me groveling to all you people, or to my husband either. I won't. He knows exactly what happened in this marriage, because he was here. That's why he is sitting around feeling sorry for himself like some of you here. He KNOWS he screwed up, screwed up royal, and he takes responsibility for that just like I take responsibility for what I've done. I did it, and that's that. It was wrong, but my husband was also wrong to treat me so badly for so long. He understands that, why is it so difficult for all of you to? If he tried to punish me the way so many of you are doing here, he'd be left in a New York minute.

PodPerson, <P>You not only come across as unrepentant but you seem to enjoy rubbing his nose in it. You've stabbed him in the heart with the infidelity dagger and are heaping on the salt bucket. Are you satisfied now that you have your revenge? Has he ALWAYS treated you like crap? I mean 20 years of nothing but crap? Why in the world did you marry this guy? Why give him another chance? <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It's unreal how self righteous, holier than thou some of you people on this forum are. As if none of you have ever sinned in your lives.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh, I have sinned. I neglected my wife. I paid the penalty with the infidelity dagger in my heart, thank god she didn't get out the salt bucket to make it worse.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As if none of you have ever made any mistakes in your lives.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Are you saying what YOU did was a mistake?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You are probably showing that same stone-headed, stubborn attitude that you showed your spouses who cheated on you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, I'm not. My wife isn't either. We have both changed. We are both recovering. We both lost sight of our marriage. Neither of us did what we did with revenge in our mind. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'M GLAD I DID IT, and I would do it again in a heartbeat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>interesting choice of words. A hardened heart will make recovery impossible for you and your husband. If you are going to dangle the infidelity dagger over his heart for further retribution, I say go ahead and divorce. Nobody wants to be married to someone like that.<P>If you are here for help, you will find it. If you are here to antagonize others, then your stay will be short.<P>SHA

I said NOTHING about being better than you. Sorry. Obviously you haven't read ALL my posts little pod.<P>I'm not better than anybody, okay? You're the one that seems to be playing that victim game here. "Poor little me. I'm so abused ... I'm just gonna go out and cheat on my H. That'll show him. Two can play at this game."<P>I'm not certain what part of the Bible that is from, Pod. Perhaps you can point it out to me.

Podperson - I am sorry for your pain. I am sorry that you endured so much during your marriage. Truly, that must have been devastating. Living as you did had to be just torment. I know, I lived the same life with my first husband, including emotional and physical abuse, for 10 years.<P>May I ask, though, why are you here? Would you like the support and encouragement and friendship that those of us on this forum are ready to give? <P>If so, here we are. And we will stand beside you every step of the way. If not, maybe this is not the place for you to be.<P>Lori

To me - a creep is someone who thinks that they can come on this board and uphold infidelity. There is an unrepentent OM who is coming here and doing just that. That to me is the only creep on this board.<P>It sounds like you want your marriage to work, but will resort to infidelity again, if it doesn't. I'm not sure exactly what classification that is.<P>I guess you are trying to build your marriage, but it sure sounds like you have lots and lots of work to do. If my husband said those things to me, I guess I would tell him to jump in a lake. I guess I could say that it is my turn, and I will cheat on him. I guess I could say - knock yourself out, buddy. <P>But where would that get me? Would it help build my marriage?<P>I think you need to ask yourself what you want. Do you want your marriage to work? Because if you truly do, then this is the board for you. If you don't then, I would suggest you forget about this forum, because we are in enough pain, we don't need more people putting us in added pain.<P>I think you have confused the problem here. It isn't your husband, it is your marriage. It takes 2 to make a marriage, and if your marriage was bad - and you resorted to an affair, well - all anyone can do now is go forward. But you need to know where you want to go, or you are going around in circles.

No, as a matter of fact, when we met he treated me GREAT .......... very similar to how he's treating me NOW, AFTER the affair. Interesting, don't you think? It's a darn shame that had to happen for him to start showing me he loved me and cared about my feelings, isn't it?<P>THAT'S what I'm talking about. And I don't wave the "infidelity flag" in front of his face. As a matter of fact, I don't mention it because HE isn't trying to rub my nose in it every minute in the way that I bet some of you here do to your "betrayer" spouses.<P>I read that long "creep thread," and I bet D99 and Elixir give it to their spouses but good. Can you imagine the SALT they are pouring.<P>I am all for rebuilding the marriage, but I'm not going to sit around and talk about how EVIL I am, was, or whatever. If we are going to rebuild, then we both have to take responsibility for the actions that got us here and go forward. I am more than willing to do that with my husband. But like I said, I'm not going to allow ANYONE to try to make me feel like I am some lower than anyone else just because I reacted differently than someone else. I happen to think it's pretty low to give someone the silent treatment. Oh, but, as long as that person doesn't cheat, they're not a creep, right?<P>If "everyone" here is so willing to help, why do people start threads calling people "creeps?" <P>And Maya, yes, I've read your posts. Plenty of them. And you're saying I am playing a victim? Please! What I am saying is, and I wish you could read my lips.......<P>I cheated, and I accept FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY ACTIONS. I cheated because I got sick and tired of not having my needs met. Point blank. What part of that is playing a victim? Just because I give the facts? Yes, my husband treated me like crap, and as a result, an affair was possible. End of story. I'm not sitting around boohooing about anything. I did what I felt I had to do. I accept that. If my husband wanted to leave me as a result, he knows where the door is. If he wants to work on rebuilding the marriage WITH ME, then he knows I'm all for that too. But I'm NOT going to sit around and listen to how much WORSE I am because at least he didn't cheat. Nope, that's not gonna to happen. <P>We are starting fresh and I suggest that's what the rest of you do too. Maybe if you did, your marriage rebuilding would go better. <P>My husband hasn't given me the silent treatment for over 3 months since he found out about my affair. Amazing, isn't it?<p>[This message has been edited by PodPerson (edited September 28, 1999).]

I believe there was only one person calling someone "creeps" & he is new here. We don't like it any more than you do. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And just because you all think I'm some creep who doesn't deserve to be angry or feel pain, too bad.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't think any one here would say that at all. However, your attitude of, "I'M GLAD I DID IT, and I would do it again in a heartbeat" was what brought a ruffle to our feathers.<P>I freely admit I made big mistakes in my marriage. I'm far from perfect & so is she. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to fix things. Still didn't give her the right to have an affair.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If he tried to punish me the way so many of you are doing here, he'd be left in a New York minute.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Any of us here treating our spouses like that? I don't think so. If my Wife came back with an attitude like you are showing here, I'd boot her out in a heartbeat!<P>I pray everything works out for you. But if you act like this towards your husband and continue it, then I feel sorry for both of you, 'cause I don't think it will last. He is not one little bit responsible for you having an affair.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited September 28, 1999).]

PodPerson:<P>Nobody said this was gonna be easy. I remember what it was like for me when I first got here. I didn't think I'd ever feel good about my marriage again. I didn't think I'd be able to love my wife as much as I did before the affair.<P>I haven't heard anyone on this forum say that they feel like they are a better person than you are. I certainly don't feel like I am. I've made huge mistakes, I've sinned big time. I've never had an affair, but I've done my share of crappy things.<P>I said "Do unto others . . ." for YOUR benefit. Put aside what your H did. Clearly, your H did NOT do unto you as he would have YOU do unto him. That's over and done with. However, remember that old adage "Two wrongs don't make a right?"<P>I'm not judging you. Really, I'm not. I understand where you are. I understand WHY you did it. But, don't you see that it wasn't the right way to handle the situation? It may have seemed like it at the time, but it really was not.<P>No one is trying to punish you. We sympathize with you. What an awful position to be put in!<P>How long ago did you cheat? How long did your affair last? Did you love your OM, or was he just a tool to make your H "wake up?"<P>I don't ask these questions to be nosy, I would like to know where you are in the healing process.<P>Aren't you even the least bit sorry that you felt you had to resort to breaking your marriage vows to get your H's attention?<P>I do, really, feel sorry for you. I hope, in the coming weeks, you'll feel some repentence. Clearly, your H is now realizing the full extent of HIS failure to honor and cherish you. I suspect, you will not begin to heal until you REALLY realize the total immorality of your choice to cheat.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

podperson, my wife is currently having an affair,and i know it was partly due to my behavior towards her. i would do anything to heal her wounds. i hope that someday she will come back and allow me to treat her like she deserves. it is NEVER TOO LATE for a person to change and recongnize that. i hurt and ache for her, but i also know she is hurting also. thats what the pain does to people. dosen't make her bad or a "creep". neither are you. i hope your marriiage will heal, if thats what you want. i hope mine can heal. i hope I don't become self righteous, thats what drove her off to begin with. good luck and prayers.