I only want to ask one question. Throughout my last thread, i repeatedly stressed the fact that I wasn't hiding anything or seperating anything from my wife. That is the part I dont understand to everones objections. In everyones responses, they try to fabricate some kind of deception on my part. Or at least it seems that way to me. They talk of "seperate", "secret", "destructive"... where do these words come from? Not from me. I am not looking for permission for anything, I am a grown man, i do what I want, and right now I WANT to save my marriage. But very few offer valid logical reasons for me to terminate what has been a long and fulfilling friendship (these people are like family), just their personal experiences extrapolated and applied to my situation, not taking into account any human variables aside from the negative ones that their WS's gave into. It seems that most have lost faith in their fellow man... is that what this program is all about? There have been a few that were offering fairly objective points, and you were one of them, untill you last post where seemingly out of no where you threw in the word "seperate." Where did that word come from? Not from me. I must not be explaining myself clearly (and you folks wonder why I run things by an impartial third party first...lol). Don't give up on me.
Im not looking for permission. I was looking for a generic answer to a generic question. I made the mistake of using my very good friend as an example. But I find it odd how many folks said in one breath that "friends of the marriage" were OK, but then condemned my friendship with Kristin, even after I said she was a friend of the marriage. Then another said couples should associate with couples, so i explained that Kristin is married, and that since my marriage, Renee was always with me when i visited Kristin and her husband, after which they backtracked and tried to find ANOTHER reason.... With double talk like that, how am I supposed to distinguish honest logical opinions from emotionally skewed babble (fogspeak an appropriate word...?). It felt like a witch hunt. Disregard all evidence and testimony... if they didn't like it they were bound and determined to burn me at the stake (or atleast my friend).
Who is the deciding authority? In the end me, I decide how I will handle the situation as it unfolds, but entertain this one question for me if you would please...

What are the deciding factors that make a friendship innapropriate?

I am asking for a specific list of characteristics that would make such a friendship innapropriate. Then, if there are any that my friendship meets, I will honestly admit them on this board, eat my crow pie, and try to resolve the situation from there. But NONE of the characteristics listed in the thread applied to me so far as I could tell. It seemed to be simply that she was female, that was the only thing "innapropriate" i could find. The rest were unfounded assumptions, and interpretations.

Ill understand if you dont want to answer, and risk getting dragged into something you dont want to be a part of, but despite what some might think, I really am asking for honest opinions. Logical, fact based, objective opinions.

Ray

if you say ONE SINGLE WORD in ONE SINGLE WAY that your would not say in the happy presence of your wife, or you get ONE SINGLE THING from that relationship that you would not fully disclose to you W then your relationship with that woman is inappropriate, Unless you're a pastor, or a counsellor or similar.

I have seen hundreds of situations on these boards in the past 15 months and I would guess 99% of affairs start with intimate friendships getting too intimate. Harley says it is because we allow another person than our spouse to meet ENs. That plus the novelty is all most affairs need to take off a nuke a marriage.

In your highly sensitive situation having a female confidante is even more risky.

You defend this relationship in a way my own Squid defended her R with OM before her PA.

Mulan's H has had MANY affairs with women by EXPLOITING opposite sex relationships that went too intimate.

You lash out like people are picking on you.

Ray, you can do any [email]d@mn[/email] thing you want to, as long as your conscience can take it, but just don't kid yourself that this woman friendship of yours is healthy. Because it isn't.

Harley says so. Carder Says so. Glass says so. Pittman says so Experts all. Also 99% of the folks on thess boards say so and I say so.

Ray I have a complex life right now and I have limited time to spend sharing experiences with people on these boards. I am compelled so to do as this board and Harleys book surely saved my marrige and my life, but Ray I can't remonstrate with someone who agressively defends a threatening relationship. Theres no hope for you adhering to some of the more subtle and difficult to understand tenets of MB if you don't (or won't) grasp this one.

yu say you want to save your marrige, but I don;t see any willingness to shut up and listen and execute techniques that work if they don't suit you. Like a fat person who wants to get fit, but wont go down the gym. They'd take ANY drug to get slim, but they won't do the hard yards over time. Recovery is hard yards over time Ray. Big time.

MB I uninstinctive and can be REALLY hard. But me and hundreds of others are living proof that it WORKS.

Ray I guess your head and heart are all over the place right now, and God knows as an active soldier, I'd never let you buy a drink in MY home town, but you haveto find some CALM and rationality. One of you two has got to be stable, and it may as well be you.

Study. And open your eyes and ears. Please.

All blessings.

Hey Ray,

Most of us that post here base our "advice" on our own personal experiences. None of us are trained professionals. None of us are MC experts. But we all have our own unique experiences to share in the hopes that perhaps in some small way, we can help someone through a situation that we've already been through.

The comments that I read on your other thread didn't seem out of line or aggressive toward you. I didn't notice any 'attacks' on you or your friendship with Kristen... What I saw was several posters relating their personal experiences of how friendships with an opposite sex friend have caused harm to their M. Which only validates the professional studies that have pretty much said the same things.

I know from personal experience that it's hard to focus on anything when your emotions are still hurting and you are right in the middle of your own troubles... You are hurting and you are away from your W as you are both trying to start the rebuilding process... so any advice that you recieve is being filtered through your own pain and your own situation.

Bob has given you some very good advice... and so have many others. You have the absolute right to decide what you agree with and what you don't agree with. I will say this again - If you discount the personal experiences of certain people because you feel that they are "attacking" you or that they don't agree with you, then you will be missing out on some great info that might just possibly help you rebuild your M.

Keep posting and keep asking questions... and recognize that any replies that you get are based on personal experiences and they are not personal attacks on you or your methods of rebuilding your M. Only you and your W can decide what's right or wrong for your M.

Semper Fi,
RIF