I keep reading that exposure is the quickest way to stop the affair and get on with recovery. Not sure if it fits my situation, can anyone advise.

I find that when females hear that you are having marriage trouble, the first thing they ask is 'did he have an affair'. Well, at first I told nobody, thinking that I should not involve others, then after reading this site, I started answering 'yes'. I figured that if I didn't go into details or winge, that letting people know would be a good idea.

The problem with telling anyone who asked is that they all played the game and kept it to themselves. Even though I told him that I wasn't going to keep secrets for him, he doesn't even know that I've told anyone. What is the point then??

Since he told me he had broken it off, I stopped telling people. So, his best friend, mother and boss don't know. Trouble is that now I find that he is still in daily txt communication with her. I confronted him about it and he says that there is nothing for me to worry about, they are friends. He won't talk about the affair, deletes his messages, sends them from behind the shed and hasn't done anything to reassure me. He only says 'its over'. He refuses to break off the friendship. He works in the same company, but now in a different office. I believe she is at his work for a few hours each week, and he has travelled to hers (for a week) only once just after he said he broke it off.

My question is: Would there be any point telling his boss or co-workers now that he says the affair is over (we are making no progress towards reconciliation). Would it just look like me trying to cause trouble. Is there any point telling his mother when they don't get along? She would have no influence over him, it would make him angry, but she has been a BS herself. Will probably tell his best friend but again don't want to look like I am just being nasty, so might wait until it comes up.

Another question: I believe there may have been other women before this one and even at the same time. I have considered contacting them in the hope that the right approach may give me some information (such as whether or not they had affairs at all). They would probably just tell him I called and I would look like I wasn't trying to make things work.

Oh, one more question. I met OW once right at the start of this in February. I was at his office checking out an alibi as I had a suspicion. Her name rung a bell although she wasn't the one I suspected, so I checked for wedding rings. Present. I decided she couldn't possibly be the one based on that. So, I asked him after the first time I found messages to her "is she married?" He said "I think he died". It sounded like a strange answer because I would expect him to know about something like that since they had been haveing EA and PA for many months. A few days ago, I was out at night while I expected her to be away at work. I happened to find her address in the phone book, so drove by. What do you know, lights on two cars out the front. Now I wonder if there is a husband, and if he knows. There are definately kids, no idea of age, and she works away. Wonder who looks after them. They may be grown up, but really have no idea.

Ok, so the question: Do I try really hard to find out and then tell the guy? I'm thinking that if the affair is over, there is no point dragging me and WH through that uncomfortable thing. If it is still going (and how would I know anyway), then it would be a smart move. For the OWH, I imagine him sitting at home with head in hand wondering what happened to his wonderful marriage. I would hate to leave a fellow BS in the land of wondering.

I have read a fair bit of stuff on here about exposure, but not sure if it applies when affair may be over. Is it worth dragging it out for one last parade or would that just add insult to injury?

Any thoughts.

Wish you all well.

He won't talk about the affair, deletes his messages, sends them from behind the shed and hasn't done anything to reassure me.

How can you question whether it is over?? Still sounds pretty active to me.

Isn't it so much easier to guage what's going on when you're looking at someone else's story, yet so much harder to decide what's right when you are living it.

Yes, it does sound pretty active. I suspect that the sex has stopped so he feels that the affair has stopped. Still not sure whether to call his work.

Thanks for your advice.

what does he say when you tell him lovingly that you have no intention in having a triangulated marriage...

and that friends don't undermine peoples marriages NO MATTER the "issues"

what does HE say

are you in plan A with plans for Plan b...or are you just going to condone his friendship with inaction

the SOURCE

is his plans to be friend with her no matter how or what it does to you.....

there in lies your answers...

go to the source

ark

Yes, it is (I hope I didn't sound harsh before) If you have any advice for me, I would glady take it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just don't want to see you getting in the habit of accepting substandard treatment. Hopefully, some of the experts will be along to help you.

I know the more experience posters say to expose at work if its a case of your spouse and o/w working together at the same co. Him saying they can still be just friends is the ultimate tell, tell sign.
Active affair.
W/S main goal is to have you both in the loop.
Your job is to break this affair up.
Place a call to w/s work and explain you are trying to save your marriage and could they help? Explain your situation.
Hopefully one of the more experienced posters will jump on board and give you some advice.

Translation: the affair is not over.

I would go over to the house and tell the "dead" husband. Be sure to let him know that he is "dead".

Of course your recovery hasn't started. The affair is still going strong. Your husband is feeding you a line.

There should be no contact at all in order for the A to be over. This shows to you that he wants to help YOU heal. Stating your boundaries is very important. One thing that I had trouble with. This is such hard work & I wish you the best with your Marriage.

Any contact at all gives opportunity for the A to re-emerge full force.

Expose to everyone. Another thing I had trouble with, but did(not the best job, probably would have been more effective if I wasn't so chicken.) I exposed to his bestfriend, his mom, OWH( who didn't know about the A and thanked me for telling him). That's as far as I got.

Kim

*snort* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, everyone.

Jean 36, it wasn't harsh, just true. An outside observer can often see more clearly than the person stuck in the middle of it.

Ark, you're dead right. I told him that his friendship with OW hurts me because of the affair. He said that nobody had the right to dictate who his friends would be, and that my insecurities are my own. Then he stormed off, and returned a few days later as though nothing had happened. Basically, when I get close the the source, he demands a divorce and drives away. Then he sends me a text telling me he loves me. It just goes around in circles.

I told him in a letter recently that I do not intend to stay in a marriage where I am locked out of part of his life. I find him difficult to talk to because of his anger and his drinking problem (by the time the kids are in bed, he is too drunk to have a proper conversation). The letter was very loving but described three things that I wont put up with. The other two things were spending time together without kids or alcohol around and him telling me what EN's I am not meeting. His response was to put his phone on the cupboard instead of his pocket (call lists deleted). Maybe it is time for plan B. Yes, btw, I am in plan A at the moment.

My biggest concern, and I'm sure others have been through this, is that if I initiate plan B, making NC a condition, how will I know if it has happened. The better I get at finding out, the better he gets at hiding. He has a second phone (work phone), which he keeps hidden. The few times I have checked it, I find that there have been phone calls between them within the 24 hrs prior to my checking. On that phone, call lists can't be deleted. How will I know that he doesn't just phone her from a phone at work or a payphone. I read somewhere here about not checking, but how else am I supposed to know.

KDS, I am afraid to call his work while I have no real evidence that it is still going on. If there is no affair (and there might as well not be unless I can find some evidence) then it just looks like sour grapes on my part. Won't they just say it has finished like they say to me? I have a letter which she wrote me after I discovered the A. Wasn't that nice of her. She said that she was sorry that I had lost my marriage, but felt no guilt as nobody can control who they fall in love with. If I can find out for sure that it is still on, I will fax it to every machine at the company. She is pretty high up and it might hurt her career. I think I have been trying so hard to believe him that I have convinced myself that what he says is true. Now I feel that I need concrete evidence again to convince myself otherwise.

believer, I am afraid that if I knock on the door she will answer it. I have tried phoning the number several times, but have never had an answer. If I catch up with the guy, I will be sure to let him know he is dead. I don't even feel convinced he exists, I am so gullible.

Even after reading all the above messages, I am so doubtful. I wish I could just believe that the affair was still going so I could act on that. I think that what Ark said makes sense. Friends don't undermine marriages no matter what the issues. Affair or not, that has to stop.

Does that just sound like a pile of excuses for why I shouldn't act, or does it sound like I'm scared sh**less of taking a stand. It should, I am.

Thanks for all the advice, and good luck with your journey.

I told him in a letter recently that I do not intend to stay in a marriage where I am locked out of part of his life. I find him difficult to talk to because of his anger and his drinking problem (by the time the kids are in bed, he is too drunk to have a proper conversation). The letter was very loving but described three things that I wont put up with. The other two things were spending time together without kids or alcohol around and him telling me what EN's I am not meeting. His response was to put his phone on the cupboard instead of his pocket (call lists deleted). Maybe it is time for plan B. Yes, btw, I am in plan A at the moment.

well here's the problem...
you can't plan A an alcoholic.....doesnt' work...

you need to get yourself in to ALANON this week...
you need to find the support you are going to need to quit being part of his life...

requests for him to stop drinking at this point with him in no sort of recovery are futile.............

I am so so sorry about this..............
start with ALANON

ARK

getting, the others are right. You must expose the affair. Expose it at work, expose to her family. And stay away from Plan A. You can consider the affair to be still "on" as long as they continue to see each other and communicate in any way. And it sounds like they are doing that. Even if they have "ended" the affair, the OWH still must be told so he can protect himself frm his sleazy wife and your husband.

Plan A is a waste of time with an alcoholic. They do not have normal reactions and emotions and will only use it an opportunity to exploit you. After you expose, I would suggest just going into Plan B with the stipulation that getting back together is contingent upon his stopping drinking and going to AA in addition to ending all contact with OW.

Ark is right, go to Alanon!

Ok, plan B wheels in motion. Have three conditions on us getting back together, the two you mentioned, Melody, plus his moving back home. How else will I know whether he is complying with the other two conditions?

I am trying to establish whether or not there is an OWH. If so, I will be there in a flash. You're right, he deserves to know even if A is over. OW lives not far from me, so it wont be hard to check out.

As far as the drinking goes, so far I have believed that it was within his control if he chose to control it. Maybe that's right and maybe not, but I need to give him a reason to chose to control it or to chose to get help. so, plan B. I spent a few hours reading the Alanon site. It talks about accepting the alcoholic you cannot change. I know I can't change him, but not sure I like the idea of accepting it either. There are some numbers in the phone book, I will try a few of them. Maybe I will talk to Alanon on the phone, but their website put me off a bit.

Well, thanks again for the advice. I need to be told to do the things I know I should because I doubt myself so much. Sameness is not working, a change must come!

getting, he must do those things in order to move back. He shouldn't be allowed to come back until he meets your stipulations. That is the carrot to lure him back. You don't even want to let him come back until those things have happened. Letting him move home is your only leverage. If you let him come back before he meets your conditions, then you forfeit the only leverage you have.

As far as alanon telling you should accept the alcoholic as he is, that is perfectly true. But that does not mean you have to live with him. That does not mean you have to choose to live with a stinking drunk. And unless you want to endure more of the same, I would definitely choose NOT TO live like you have been. If you want to motivate your H to stop drinking, I would strongly suggest that you make it your boundary that he not come back until he has "chosen" to cease drinking.......for life. Just know that he won't "choose" to stop drinking until he is properly motivated.

Melody, I did call Alanon, and might be brave enough to go to a meeting. I have done some more reading.

I understand that he can't live with me until the drinking and OW contact has stopped. I wouldn't let him. The problem with the 'carrot' is that he doesn't actually want to move back home. He has been working away since our first child came along. Just before I found about the A, I convinced him to take a job in town where he could stay at home every night. That lasted one week. I asked him to leave because he didn't want to stop seeing OW. Now, he says that is over, but he doesn't intend coming back. He likes to have this place as a drop in centre. He has his stuff in the shed so he can play on the weekends, he has an investment in the form of a house, he has a good home for his children, and he has the freedom to run around all over town. If we are to be together again (big if at the moment), he must want to live here and stay here each night. I wont have him back part-time like he has been for six years. That's why I want him to move back home, but not under current circumstances.

How do I deal with that issue? It's not really a carrot because he doesn't want to be here full time like a real husband. It's got to be all or nothing for me now and I should have insisted on it years ago. I'm sure he's not the only bloke who treats home this way, but it seems a bit tricky to me. Maybe the answer is that if there is no motovation, he will drift off and I will be free of all this.

I am going to need a legal separation to get him out at all, because he will insist that the house is still half his and he can come whenever he chooses. In that case, there will have to be a custody order, and there is another difficulty. I am afraid to leave the kids with him as he drinks and drives, and passes out after a set number of drinks.

If it sounds like I am throwing up reasons not to act, I'm not. Just trying to identify the issues that will have to be overcome in order for me to act. Your advice is good, Melody, I just have to think it all through before I can act on it.

Called OW house today. Teenager answered, said OW was at work. Not sure what to say to find out if there is a H. Should I tell her kids???

ps. MrsStowaway is looking for your advice, Melody, on a different thread. Not sure if you got the message yet.

I will scratch out a plan B letter and post it here soon. Advice on it would be appreciated.

Melody, I phoned alanon. Might be brave enough to go to a meeting. Have also read some more.

I realise he can't come home until he is willing to behave better, I wouldn't have him at the moment. I'm not sure how this works, but he doesn't actually want to move back in. He has worked away since our first child came along. Just before I discovered A, I convinced him to get a job in town so he could be home every night. He was here for a week. I asked him to leave when he made it clear that he intended to stay with me and continue to see her. The problem now is that he comes and goes as he pleases because he says he is not seeing her anymore. He visits on weekends to play in his shed, he has an investment in the form of a house which is taken care of by me, he has a roof over the heads of his children and the freedom to run around all over town. This is what I want to stop by having him move back home. Not sure how the carrot thing works when he choses to stay away five nights a week. Even if he gives up the OW and the booze, he will find an excuse (work) to spend five or six nights away from home every week. I know there must be plenty of other blokes treating home in that way, but I haven't found any stories on MB about how this is dealt with. I have been putting up with this lifestyle for six years now, and won't have the part-time thing any longer. Maybe my condition will be that he find a more family friendly job. That is physically and financially possible, and there is no real reason for him to work the hours he does or the distance from home. If he quits drinking, he will be able to take a pay cut.

If I am to get him out at all (for plan B), I will need a legal separation. Otherwise he will insist that the house is half his and he has every right to come when he likes. Not sure how long that takes. Will look into that first. I'm afraid that he might make me and the kids move.

Phoned OW house and was answered by a teenager. Said she was at work. Not sure what to say to find out if she has a H. Should I just tell her kids?? Will try again another time.

Will scratch out a plan B letter and post it here. Would appreciate any feedback on it.

Thanks again or your advice, Melody and others. It means alot to have this kind of support.

Here is the first draft of the plan B letter (adapted from Graycloud's letter, hope he doesn't have a copyright)

Pom,

In all our years together, I never imagined us reaching the point where we are today. I love you as I always have, and want to remain married to you. I am sorry for the things I did - and did not do - that allowed you to fall into the arms of another woman. I look forward to a future where the circumstances that made it easier for you to turn away are gone forever.

I have told you I love you and am ready to forgive you, but your relationship with OW continues to cause me pain. So does your refusal to discuss our relationship and your continued work choices that keep you away from our family. These challenges drain my love for you every day, and make it difficult for me to forgive you. I know that you are also hurting and I would give anything to help ease your pain. More than anything, I want to forgive you, and work together for a better marriage. I hope that time will come. For now, while you continue to make choices that are destructive to our marriage, and refuse to be an active part of this family, I cannot continue to be in contact with you. I realise that I must get on with my own life, otherwise I will soon reach a point where I no longer want this marriage at all. If you end the relationships that have damaged our marriage, and choose to discuss returning to family life, I will welcome the discussion. Until that time, it will not be possible for me to have any contact with you.

Please respect my decision. If you need to communicate with me, please ask someone to pass your messages along. If there is anything you need from the house, have someone pass your message to me and I will arrange for you to pick things up. If you want to spend time with the kids, again, let me know what arrangement you would like and I will see that it happens. I will continue to pay all bills and carry on as usual financially, if that is what you choose. Otherwise, let me know what arrangements you would like to make.

Pom, my wish for us is a new and better relationship, a marriage that makes us both happy as it once did. My willingness to remain as your wife despite these hard times is part of a promise I made to you 10 years ago, and I do still believe in us. Right now though, letting go of you and distancing myself from your actions is the only way I can protect my heart. The only way I can keep my promise to you. I don't do this in anger or out of spite, only out of a need to restore some normalcy to my life so that I can remain healthy, find some measure of peace, and continue to grow as a human being.

Remember me, I'm the one who loves you.


As well as advice on the letter, I wonder if anyone has any ideas about handling his reaction to it. Here is what I expect him to say.

"Don't push me away, this can't be fixed in one day. I love you and want you only, and am working on the problems. I am looking for another job, I am trying to cut down the drinking. She is just a friend, and there is nothing going on. You just aren't willing to give this a chance". He may say "I won't talk to her anymore if it worries you that much" How will I know that's true? He stays away five or six nights a week and has a second phone which I don't see the bills for.

He may get angry and say "well, if I can't live in the house, I am not paying the mortgage. Who do you expect to pay it for you?" He may cut off finances also. That wont be a problem in the long run as I expect to be able to afford to keep the house if there is a financial split, but would have to go the that extent first. He may say "no way, all my stuff is there, where am I supposed to keep it, we can't affort another house, I am staying in a small van and have no room for my stuff and I want to be able to work on my car in the shed etc."

What do I do with those arguments from him??

He has been a little better since I sent him a letter telling him what I need from him. He has stopped using his phone at all around me, he usually keeps it in the car, his bag, and sometimes leaves it on the cupboard. He drank on the weekend, but only a few and started late. He came one night during the week and didn't drink. He hasn't been angry or lost his temper at all since I sent the letter, and is talking about the future. He keeps sending me loving messages on the phone.

I feel terrible going to plan B when he is starting to be so nice, but sometimes feel he is just doing it to keep me happy so I don't do the plan B thing. In the meantime, he still talks often to OW and another suspected previous OW who he never completely cut contact with. He continues to be away from home five to six nights a week for convenience (to be close to work), and not sure about drinking. He hasn't given up overnight, but I haven't seen him drunk in the past week and a half. This makes me think he must have some control over it, but needs motivation. He still doesn't want to talk about A.

Will be going out with him on the weekend (first time since d-day in July) and he will spend one day here. Will wait and see how that goes before I give him the plan B letter. Might do it next week.

Whether things improve or not, I feel like I need off this merry-go-round for a while, because we are definately not in a real recovery while all this bad stuff still going on.

Still looking for OWH, none found yet.

Well, thats about all my issues for today, will check in here again after the weekend.

thanks for listening

getting, after you give him the letter, you don't talk to him at all. The point is to cut off all contact with your H. So you won't be arguing with him at all. He is still obligated to pay the bills, so if he cuts off payments, then you will need to file seperation to force him to pay. And if he insists on coming to the house, you might have to get a seperation agreement to stop him.


An alcoholic has no control over their drinking. They can play control games when they have to for a while. But you cannot turn an alcoholic into a social drinker, it is impossible.

Ok, so if he comes over for any reason or gets difficult with money, I don't respond to him, just file for separation. Is that right?

He has just changed the password to his email, so there's a sure sign that there is still something going on that he wants to keep to himself.

I feel like it will be a short plan B, because he will come back pretty quick and say he is willing to quit talking to her and to be part of the family. If he does, do I say anything about the changed email password? How do I know if he is still seeing her or not? I can imaging him sending her an NC letter or phone call if I insist on it, but it being a set-up. Have you heard of that happening? How do I know he doesn't just make up a new email account and never tell me? I suppose that's why so many people here have 'false' recoveries several times before it is for real. I just don't know if I can ever relax around him knowing how easily he can lie. I am ready to just separate, divorce and be done with him.

Will see how the weekend goes, then take it from there. Psyching myself up.