On this web site, Dr. Harley writes: "In almost every case, a man and woman marry because they are in love..." My question is: If I never really loved my husband, is there any point in trying to save my marriage?

Some background: My husband is 8 years older than I am. We met 16 years ago at work and became fast friends. With one exception (when I was a teenager) my previous relationships with men had either been hot and heavy or just friends -- not both. I concluded it was nearly impossible have it all, so when he fell in love with me and asked me to marry him, I said yes. I was thinking a marriage based on freindship would be more solid and apt to last than one based on passion or lust.

To cut to the chase, We've now been married 13 years and have two daughters, soon to be 6 and 3. And I am deeply unhappy. I no longer have any interest in having sex with my husband. And our friendship has been damaged by his detatchment, disillusionment with the responsibilities of middle age and fatherhood, and general neglect of our relationship. Three weeks ago, I finally confronted him with the fact that I feel no love for him at all, and that I "wasn't sure" that I had ever loved him. He responded admirably -- taking full responsibility for neglecting the relationship. We are now in marriage counseling and he has become an attentive and loving husband and father, and seems much happier. And he's convinced we can "rebuild the love." But how can you GET BACK something if you NEVER HAD IT?

I suppose it's possible I'm rewriting history -- that I did love him at some point -- but as I try to remember those early years, I keep finding evidence to the contrary. An example: The week before we got married, an old boyfriend of mine called me on the phone. I hadn't spoken to him for a couple of years. He had been madly in love with me, we had a lot of "chemistry", but I didn't think we were compatible. When I told him I was getting married the next week, he said something like, "Wow. He must be a really amazing guy. I wish it could have been me, but since it can't, I hope he makes you unbelievably happy. Good bye." I hung up the phone and bawled my eyes out. Why? I wasn't sure back then, but now I think -- although I was not in love with the ex-boyfriend, we did share a real spark. He 'lit my fire' so to speak. And I realized on some level that I would never have that with the man I was about to marry.

Another example: Regarding the feeling of love, Dr. Harley writes, "We find ourselves not only wanting to be with that person, but craving that person. When we are not together we feel lonely and incomplete." About two years into our marriage, I moved (with my husband's blessing) about 100 miles away from him to persue a career opportunity. We only had one day a week off together, and took turns traveling to be with each other on that one day. That lasted for 18 months, when a new career opportunity allowed me to move back home. But the whole time we were apart, I didn't even miss him.

So why didn't I end it back then, before there were children to consider? Because I couldn't admit my mistake (I was a serious perfectionist). Now, I'm just so afraid that he's doing all this work (trying to fill my love bank) and it's still not going to be enough.

It seems there's all sorts of advice and help for people who have "fallen out of love" -- this web site being the best I have found so far. But nowhere have I seen anyone address the issue of what to do if you come to the realization that you've been "faking it" all along.

I feel like such a fool and a fraud. I don't want to hurt him or do irreparable damage to my children, but the prospect of facing another 20 or more years in a passionless marriage is enough to push me over the edge.
Can anyone help me?????

I think you might can guess what I'm going to ask. Why did you marry him to begin with? I understand your point about the friend thing or thinking it might could even work. But after 13 years of marriage and you still feel the same way, says its about time to call it quits.

I'm all in favor of saving/working on a marriage, don't get me wrong. You even stated you all have been to counseling and your husband seems to feel better about things and seems happier. However, the problem is, you still don't feel that way after all this.

If you honestly feel that theres no way to fix how you feel, then being honest and upfront with him is the best way to handle this. No one can help how we feel, and you can't make or force yourself to feel something you don't. You also said you didn't want this to damage your children. I don't think it will, I think more damage will come from the fact that you continue to stay in a situation you're not happy in. Your kids might be young right now, but I can say that kids pick up on more than you think.

I also feel that 2 people can be good, caring, loving, responsible adults for their kids, and still be apart. I think more damgae is done to kids when parents stay together for the wrong reasons. I also think you need to think long and hard about what you feel you need to do. Keep us posted.


Joe

Gotta ask.
Is the ANYONE (a guy) at all you have been talking with about your problems or thinking about how great they are?

I noticed on another post to another member you said that you recently had an affair? You did not mention that and you blame all your unhappiness on your husband and he has taken the blame.

Does he know about your affiar? Have you been honest with him about it? No wonder your so unhappy but I really feel sorry for your husband.

You wrote in the other post:

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I have enjoyed flirting throughout my 13 year marriage. I always told myself, and my husband, that it was just a harmless ego boost. And it never went further than that -- until this past summer when one of my "innocent" flirtations evolved into an all out affair.
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I wonder how you would feel if he was off doing some other chick? I hope you come to your senses and it is not too late. When you are in the fog of an affair your husband will not look good to you.

My wife did the same thing and we are divorcing since I do not want to remain married to her. It is funny in a way at what lenghts she has used to try and get me back. Be honest with your husband and good luck to you.

You sound incredibly immature and somewhat cold. I think you should get personal counseling to see what is going on with you. Having an affair on one's partner is the cruelest thing someone can do. Your husband and your children deserve better. I had no idea how much an affair could hurt until my partner did it to me. You need to grow up and take responsibility that you had two children with this man. Get serious and get some counseling for yourself before you throw away what sounds like a good man who loves you. You might be surprised.

To "I had enough":
Thank you for your post. I have some folow-up questions for you if you don't mind.

First, a clarification: I don't blame my husband for everything. It's true that he's been a real negative ****** in recent years -- detached from me, short-tempered with the girs etc. -- but he's certainly making up for that now. I'm the one who married him under false pretenses. I'm the one who let it go on for 13 years because I was too proud(?), perfectionist(?), stubborn(?), immature(?) or whatever to admit my mistake. I'm the one who pushed to have children. And yes, I'm the one who had an affair (more about that later). I feel horrible -- literally sick with worry and guilt -- and I'm trying to do the right thing now. But it's hard when you don't know your own heart or trust your own judgement.

As for the affair, it was brief and it's over. In fact, it had been over for a couple of weeks when I opened up and told my husband about all the other stuff I had been feeling. I didn't mention it in my post for a couple of reasons. It seems to me it was a symptom (my desperate attempt to feel something) of the real illness (a loveless marriage). I really wanted to hear what people had to say about building romantic feelings if none had existed before, and I knew if I wrote about the affair, that's all anyone would focus on. I'm conflicted about whether to tell him. I know Marriage Builders advocates total honesty, and the arguements for that make sense to me. But I've also heard the arguements for keeping quiet (I'm assuming you have, too?). And they also make sense to me. What do you think? I really want to know.

You also asked how I would feel if I knew he was off "doing some chick". Hypothetical questions are so hard to answer, but I think I might feel relieved. Anyone want to comment on that one??


Obviously, I'm very very confused. Somewhere else in one of the forums, someone wrote that cheating spouses re-write their marriage history to suit their purposes. I guess in my case, that would go something like "I had an affair b/c I never loved my husband." I suppose that's possible, but the affair has been over for about six weeks now, and we've been in counseling for four weeks. How long does it take to get clarity?

Please, please keep the insights and advice coming. I obvously need it!!!

Somewhere else in one of the forums, someone wrote that cheating spouses re-write their marriage history to suit their purposes.
And it almost ALWAYS is the case.

I guess in my case, that would go something like "I had an affair b/c I never loved my husband."
Again, a person who had an affair almost ALWAYS says/thinks this. It's very, very unrealistic.

If you NEVER loved your husband, why did you get married and stay together for xx years?

the case I suppose that's possible, but the affair has been over for about six weeks now, and we've been in counseling for four weeks. How long does it take to get clarity?
It's gonna take at LEAST as long as the affair went on. And the affair actually started when you first imagined anything with this guy or got that first little "tingle" about your relationship with him.
This is to get to a point to the minimal point to where you are seeing things with a little bit of clarity.
Actually understanding it all will take much, much longer.

It really depends on how much you respect marriage itself, committment, and living up to your word. Personally, when I said my vows, it was with the understanding that it was till death do us part no matter what the circumstances.

I think there are plenty of couples that get married very young-- too young to really understand what it is they are signing themselves up for. Maybe they realize they've married someone that's not all that similar to themselves. Maybe their mate gains 100 pounds. The list is never ending. But what that couple does with what they have is what separates the winners from the losers.

In my opinion, marriage at the foundation should have comittment. On top of that you build friendship, love, and fun. At times in your life, some of those aspects will be missing. Life may not be fun. Your mate might be falling short in making you feel loved. YOU MAY NOT EVEN BE IN LOVE! But the comittment can always stand strong and will get you through to the other side.

Now I'm not saying that you can't take steps to maximize your happiness. Let's say he just really drives you crazy. Let's say you guys fight constantly. It's not unthinkable to have beds in separate bedrooms or find ways for you guys to recharge and find happiness in live outside of each-other. But should you abandon the marriage? Divorce? Have an affair? Treat him bad? No. Maybe you marriaged the wrong person, but it's too late now. It's your duty to make the best of it and try to make your life the happiest it can be for you AND your husband while staying in the marriage.

I just read more of what you wrote. About how you're worried that he's making all this energy to fill your love bank and you just don't have it for him.

It really ticks me off when people talk about their emotions as-if they are out of their own control. Sure, chemistry is not forcable. But you CAN set yourself up to fall in love with him.

I actually dated a girl several years ago who I thought wasn't all THAT pretty. She had kind of a square face. But I liked her personality and admired her strength. Knowing that it was important to her that I find her physically attractive, I forced myself to look for things about her appearance that I loved. I studied her ear-lobes, how she liked to sleep, how she wore her hair or what kind of taste in clothes she had. I eventually loved her looks too-- not soo much because she was "stunning" in the raw sense of the word but because they were the "familiar" feartures of "the one" in my life at the time. In the same way, maybe there are men out there who you could have burning pashion for if you were in a relationship with them. But you're not. So I suggest you take the person who is "the one" in your life and build him up in your mind. Look for the good. Try to adore him. And you'll find that it IS possible for you to have butterflies for him. You gotta comitt to it though. Even if your attempts fail at first, continue to respect him and then take a second, third, and fourth stab at falling in love with him.

I'm the one who let it go on for 13 years because I was too proud(?), perfectionist(?), stubborn(?), immature(?) or whatever to admit my mistake.
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Dude... you still don't get it.

Marriage is not something that you say "wooopse, I made a mistake; I'm gonna get a divorce so I can go find my true soul-mate". NO! It's too late!! Even before the children!! At that point, you just MAKE it work with your husband!!

There are lots of marriages which aren't a garden of roses; mine included. But short of an affair... which sounds like you might have already taken care of... there is no reason for divorce.

The way I see it, you're fixated on the mistake that took place years ago and putting your life on hold; keeping yourself from moving past what you see as a mistake and turning what you have into a positive.

It would be very cruel to your H to allow your H to invest all this effort into attempting to build a relationship, without him fully knowing the character of the person he is attempting to connect with.

You need to 'fess up. He may not want to stay in a relationship with you, and then the problem is taken care of all the way around. You can live your uh, life however, you see fit, and he will not be living in a deceptive relationship.

On the other hand, he may throw caution to the winds, and say so what, and keep on pouring on the coal to change himself. And if he can, you can too.

I suspect you're still caught in the fog from the affair, and aren't thinking too straight.

But at the minimum, while you decide if you're going to end your relationship, you owe your H the courtesy of honesty.

Great post wasp! Couldn't of said it better myself!

Update time guys,

A lot has happened in the last several days. When I realized I needed to take another look at my decision to keep my affair secret, I moved over to the "Affairs" section of this forum and created a new post/thread asking for input, and boy did I get it!

D-day was this past Monday. The fog is beginning to lift. My husband does not want a divorce. In fact, he's more committed than ever to making this work. I see him a lot differently now than I did just a few weeks ago. And I have made a committment too -- to be open to new possibilities in the marriage, and to do a better job meeting his EN's etc.

But I also have to tell you that I still have my doubts about the long term. I can see now that I have done some revisionist history about my marriage. But I was also having some of those thoughts (married my friend and it turned out not to be enough) long BEFORE the affair.

Wasp -- I sincerely appreciate your effort to help, here. But you're barking up the wrong tree. My husband and I do not share your conviction that a crappy mairrage is still a marriage, no matter what (short of an affair, according to you, or would you allow an out for abuse, too? Just curious) Anyway, we have BOTH said that we don't just want to salvage this thing. Neither one of us wants the kind of "marriage" where you have to have separate bedrooms or find fulfillment in other life persuits just to put-up with each other while living under the same roof -- even "for the kids". We will work toward the kind of marriage in which we crave time with each other, take awsome care of each other, and make amazing love together. You know when you see a couple in their 80's walking down the beach together, holding hands and chattering away as if they were on their first date? That's the kind of intimacy we want, and if we can't create it with each other, we will split up and give each other at least the chance to find it elsewhere. We agree with Joe who wrote: "...and I also feel that 2 people can be good, caring, loving, responsible adults for their kids, and still be apart. I think more damgae is done to kids when parents stay together for the wrong reasons."

Anyway, thanks again everyone. It really is generous of you to take the time to try to help. Yes, you too Wasp. I may not agree with you, but I can see that you really care.

-SC

Glad to hear you told him the truth about the affair and that you re-committed to him.

To answer your question, I do agree that abuse is a good reason for a divorce. But I take marriage very seriously and in most cases, nothing short of infedelity should break one up. Just because your spouse isn't interesting or sexy anymore is not a good reason at all if you ask me.

I still think that you are making the mistake of "all or nothing". You want the picture perfect marriage of two people holding hands in their 80s. That's a wonderful goal. But when you set the bar at perfection and don't make room for less, you're setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment. I sort of feel like you are saying "I want a sports car or no car at all" and that is a sign of inexperience and naivete. No problem at all in wanting the sports car, taking steps towards buying it... but to say "if I get a honda civic instead I might as well take it to the junk yard because I'm going to be soo unhappy" is foolish. Please think that over. Life can be good and have it's sweet moments without having to be the ultimate, picture-perfect blast that you seem to think it should be.

And I disagree that divorce is better for the children. As long as you are not setting bad examples for your children, I think parents who stick together for the sake of their children are honorable. There's a world of pain, confusion, and repercussions that come out of divorce. My wife is a product of a divorced family and I can tell you that it's as-if big chunks of understanding about males and about the way that husband and wife interact are missing because she never had a chance to watch and learn from her own parents.

Wasp,

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. My husband and I are on the same page on this one -- it's the Rolls Royce or bust! Don't get me wrong. I don't think life is supposed to be a "picture-perfect blast". (I drive a 10 year old Toyota Corolla station wagon, by the way.) My husband and I have worked hard for what we have. We have willingingly -- even joyfully -- made sacrifices and compromises for each other... and we've helped and supported each other through some difficult times. HOWEVER, when it comes to the core of our relationship, we are indeed setting the bar high. If we can't have emotional and physical intimacy and passion, we're not going to settle for less.

As for the impact on the children, I have agonized over that one. When my husband was being a sullen, short-tempered turd, I concluded that it would be a trauma initially, but better in the long term for my girls not to be exposed to that. (I'm sure you've heard it said that girls measure how men should treat them by how their father's treat them?) Now that my husband is paying attention to the family, it's harder to justify a split from their perspective. I've read quite a bit about the impact of divorce on children. But also keep in mind that every situation is different. IF my husband and I WERE to split, I'm quite certain it would be on the friendliest terms possible -- with both of us making the committement to be the most loving and supportinve parents possible.

One other thing -- I am the product of an "intact" family. My parents have been happily (?) married for more than 40 years, and look at how screwed up I am!!!

Food for thought.

-SC