Tlove,

I'm sure it was a tough choice but I for one feel you are making a really smart decision for all involved.

Best to you in the future.

Symphony

Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I suggest you pick up Dr Gary Smalley's book: The DNA of Relationships, and another book called: The 5 Love Languages and study them - together, *after* you've moved out (living together, sex or not, is inappropriate).

Faithor

If you daughter did not understand and your fiance did not understand, it sounds like you are smart to end the relationship right now.....

Were you really in love?

Were you looking for a mother for your child?

What was the benefit of this relationship?

Don't expect you to answer....just food for thought.

I read through this thread, you're getting some great advice from the guys here.

From a woman's perspective, I'd strongly suggest you find a different word to say what you mean, if you don't mean control, or submissive subserviance - find a word that better describes it.

As Bill said, communication is the key. If you don't communicate before you move in, it often never gets said, until it's too late.

Men quite often see submissive as being somehow 'obedient'... Ummm well, you can have obedience in your marriage if you're willing to be obedient to Christ (you're living together, therefore you are NOT - nuff said).

Back to the communication pole, you need more talky-talky.

Jan

Really, by who’s standard? IMVHO both are sins. Let’s talk about sex for a moment. Sex changes the dynamics of the relationship especially when introduced to early just like shacking up changes the dynamics. IMVHO both of these things cause a rift in communication skills and as a man it then becomes very easy to revert to our primitive ways and feel that we’ve conquered our quest. Many then begin trying to dictate and control their bounty. We stop perusing and courting because we’ve already got our prize. When in fact, in a relationship that lasts a lifetime, the man and woman for that matter, only stop courting and perusing when they draw their last breath.

Well said.......

Ok, to answer the question in the title of your thread: because to submit is to be controlled. Let us look at definitions:

submit
One entry found for submit.


Main Entry: sub·mit
Pronunciation: s&b-'mit
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): sub·mit·ted; sub·mit·ting
Etymology: Middle English submitten, from Latin submittere to lower, submit, from sub- + mittere to send
intransitive senses
1 a : to yield oneself to the authority or will of
another : SURRENDER b : to permit oneself to be subjected to something <had to submit to surgery>
2 : to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another


control
19 entries found for control. The first 10 are listed below.
To select an entry, click on it. For more results, click here.
control[1,transitive verb]control[2,noun]animal controlball controlbiological controlbirth controlcontrol surfacecruise controlfire controlgun control

Main Entry: 1con·trol
Pronunciation: k&n-'trOl
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): con·trolled; con·trol·ling
Etymology: Middle English controllen, from Middle French contreroller, from contrerolle copy of an account, audit, from Medieval Latin contrarotulus, from Latin contra- + Medieval Latin rotulus roll -- more at ROLL
1 a archaic : to check, test, or verify by evidence or experiments b : to incorporate suitable controls in <a controlled experiment>
2 a : to exercise restraining or directing influence over : REGULATE b : to have power over : RULE c : to reduce the incidence or severity of especially to innocuous levels <control an insect population> <control a disease>

Obviously, if you have authority to have her do what you want her to do, you have control (see definition) over her. If she agrees with your opinion/position and goes along with it, that isn't submitting, that's...wait for it...AGREEMENT. If she's submitting it is that she disagrees and is giving you authority over her. Your opinion/position is then controlling her life. Duh.

If you are saying, "Oh, no, submission means..." and white-washing it with your own definitions, that doesn't change the nature of the situation. It is more like saying, "Oh, no...pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

(All definitions courtesy of Merriam-Webster online dictionary.)


Maybe your definition of the role of "wife" differs from hers. What makes you inherently presuppose that your definition is superior? What makes you think you have the right to force/impose your definition upon her?


Why would she ever have to be submissive to you? This whole wanting her to submit to you concerns me deeply, to tell you the truth. I think you need therapy...because you do sound as if you have control issues.


I think you are wrong for wanting her to be submissive - period. She's a human being. Why don't you try being submissive to her for about 6 months and then tell me what you've learned about how it makes you feel as a human being? Is it respectful of her thoughts, feelings, and opinions to want her to defer to yours? If you do not respect her thoughts, feelings, and opinions, do you truly love her?

You should be asking yourself a lot of hard questions. This post says far more about you than it does about her...and what it says is not flattering, either.


Ummmm...how is being submissive acting like you are married? That's more like acting as if you are owned. Marriage does not require submissiveness on the part of either partner. It is a union of two people, not the aquisition of a woman by a man.

I think you have real issues. Bottom line is: if you want a submissive wife, and she does not wish to be submissive, THIS IS THE WRONG WOMAN FOR YOU. She made a wise decision, as did you.

Personally, I think you are, at least now, the wrong man for any woman. It takes far more courage, patience, and love to respect someone as an equal than it does to try to subjugate him/her.

this is quite normal from some women as they wont be free as before as they were . its just that women instinct that is making them like this . there is nothing to worry about . you need to make her gain your trust again . you need to assure her that it is not like this as she is thinking . . .
try it you will not be disappointed man

Hmm. Do I look at submissiveness as being controlled?

Yes, I sure do now. I was pretty darn submissive. I was also miserable.

I can only see submissiveness working if the Policy of Joint Agreement is followed to the letter. But then, that wouldn't be submitting because your H wouldn't do anything you didn't enthusiastically agree with. Submitting, by definition, denotation and connotation, procludes enthusiasm.

I am submissive in one situation though. And I've been told I'm not really that submissive then either!

I think a submissive attitude can only work if the wife is doing it out of a willing spirit. Forced submission won't work and I speak from experience on this. It's the same thing as when a wife forces her husband to participate in house chores. If he truly is onboard about the whole sharing the housework thing, then it won't be a burden. But if he is forced to do it, then he will resent it. It's the same thing with submission.

No wonder she is getting scared. You are not even married yet and you are already telling her that she has to submit to you. You see, there is a difference is submitting willingly and being told that is what is expected of you. When a woman chooses to submit to a man there will be entirely different results then when she is told that she must submit. If you are demanding that she do what ever you tell her to as long as it is "not crazy" you are in for a long, unhappy ride or no marriage.

Have you ever considered that she is an intelligent grown woman with a brain of her own? As soon as she marry's you she does not become stupid and need you to direct her every move as if she was a child.

Just FYI, there is another verse about submitting to ONE ANOTHER in love...so let's talk about how men can willingly submit, too. Is there a difference in when a man willingly submits and when you have to make him do it out of obligation? What happens when a man forces a women to participate in the household chores instead of waiting for her willing involvement?

I'm quite serious, btw, I don't think we should pick and choose our scripture based upon what is the most popular with society...after all, God's law comes before the norms of society, anyway.

In Ephesians 5, where the Bible supposedly says, "Wives submit to your husbands and husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it", the word 'submit' does not appear.

In verse 21, it says 'Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

In the Greek texts, the next verses say, "Wives, to your husbands as to the Lord.....Husbands, love your wives as your own bodies." "He who loves his wife loves himself.....he feeds it and cares for it." "Each of you must love his wife AS HE LOVES HIMSELF and the wife must respect her husband."

Wives won't respect husbands if they aren't loved.

Didn't mean to preach but this scripture is the source of many religiously-related discussions on the matter of submission. I am not a Greek scholar. This is borrowed information.

The omission of that word was a surprise to me....Not the way I had heard it all my life.

bump

Wow. I’m fascinated. I get the submitting unto each other. I can even see it fitting in with the POJA. “You’re not enthusiastic about me doing X, so I won’t.” I know my God wouldn’t want me to “submit” if it meant someone could make all kinds of selfish demands and I’d have to do them. I can’t imagine how that would help develop a blissful relationship.

It’s interesting that women are to relate to their husbands as they do to Christ, yet, men are to love their wives and treat their wives as they treat themselves. From a practical point of view, this may make sense. “Men, don’t beat, rape, or starve your wives.” Especially when the verses were written, women had little control over their own selves.

To me, today, as a woman, the line about wives to their husbands as to Christ, makes some sense in a more abstract way. It’s not that I’m to think my husband is Christ. Honestly, that would be heresy. But, it does remind me of how spiritual the union between a man and a woman should be.

It blew me away two. NO ONE had ever said that in my presence before.

It does sound very much like POJA to me, too. And that, when choosing to do something, you should consider the other person's best interests before your own.

It's really sorta funny how seriously we have come to take OURSELVES in a union that is instituted, ordained, and protected by GOD. Look, I realize there are some who believe and those who don't- whichever you are, you may agree that I'll never be able to force someone to truly 'submit unto me' when they don't faithfully trust in God/me or my faith in both. Not even man's best friend would do such a thing..lol [color:"black"] [/color]

when something is "sub" leveled, it is not lost. Nor is it rendered useless, insignificant, or any of those other ill spirited words used to discourage and 'submit' confusion into the minds and lives of those who may find themselves yet fencesetting on the issue. Keep it simple. no one cares if you know- if they don't yet know you care. Husbands this is for us. 'Treat you Wife as yourself'...DUH! She get's the remote; the last slice; she's taken care first; anything you would do for yourself etc
Ladies: put the darn seat back up or it's every -man for themselves.

Hmm. Sub-par. Sub-normal. Subvert--that one is interesting. It is to ruin, corrupt or overthrow, I believe. Submerge. Subsibdize.

So not everything is negative. But, when one person submits to another in the common usage of the word, they are ceding power. They are no longer equals in the relationship.

Some people are quite happy to cede the power and responsibility. Others are quite happy to take the power in a relationship. However, most western women are uncomfortable with that.