[color:"blue"] He is not discussing plans with me and negotiating - he is just panicking. All I wanted was a discussion of what we could do to streamline the day so that it was pleasant for everyone. I shouldn't have taken it upon myself to think that being treated as a caterer while he rushed around trying to visit all the people in his life was a bad thing. [/color]



[color:"blue"]He didn't ask me what I thought or wanted. He made a bunch of assumptions. [/color]



[color:"blue"]I've tried to break up with him - he is the one that keeps saying that he needs to change that his lifestyle has left him all alone. He even says that he needs to get rid of his house because he knows that it is too tempting for him to continue in his lifestyle with everything staying the same. [/color]



[color:"blue"]How could you say that if my needs were for domestic support or financial support. Living together or being married would definitely make those more palpable. Additionally more time together would make the other ENs more likely to be met. He does fine when we are together, but 25 miles makes 15 hours a week impossible... [/color]



[color:"blue"] I have trouble asking for anything. I am the least maintenance non-demanding persona except when I about a few issues feel strongly. Then I can be quite different but never demanding. I just wanted a discussion of what he wanted and honestly he wasn't offering what he wanted he was offering what he thought everyone else wanted without even talking to any of us and asking. [/color]



[color:"blue"] I know. I just got an email from him - apparently his ex used to make Christmas very stressful for some reason. I wonder if he isn't projecting some of her anger onto me.

V.[/color]

FR,

I write here when I am angry in angry words. Usually when I talk to him I go gently.

I think you're correct though. I am getting eaten by resentment.

He has not even talked to his folks yet. It is no wonder he could not negotiate - key players were left out. It would be typical for us to make plans and then find out his mom didn't want to do it.

V.

I'll have to think about the rest of this later,... but on THIS... my xBF lived 30 miles away. We dated a little over 2 years - he had 2 kids. He always came to my house. I never went to his.

I have several thoughts on this. My MAJOR overall thought: IF HE WANTS TO MEET THOSE NEEDS, HE WILL.

He can help you PLENTY in the Domestic Support area even though you are not married or living together. What kinds of things are you looking for? My exBF used to do all kinds for me. Take out the trash, help in the kitchen (cook, clean, etc), help me fold laundry, take care of my car, mow my lawn, pick up after himself... and he lived 45 minutes away. He made the EFFORT to do these things for me. Also, are you happy with HIS habits? His housecleaning, etc? If your BF wants to do them, HE WILL. What will change after you're living together? Don't you think you'll be nagging him to do these things, if he's not bending over backwards to impress you while he's courting you??? Excuse me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> if he's not being himself, being generous and helping you simply because he cares.... if you WANT these things... you'll have to beg for it once you're married.

Financial support? What do you need that you aren't getting? Does he make enough? You should know that already. Are you happy with the way he manages his money? You can tell that already. No, I don't think he should always pay your kids' way. That your job, and their Dad's job, and BF CAN do it if he has the means.

Again... if you aren't happy with these 2 EN's NOW, what will change once you're married? or "committed"?

P.S. On the flip side of my situation... if I wanted to do those things for HIM bad enough, I would have. It was hard for me to leave my comfort-zone, go to his messy, chaotic house with kids, and try to meet his Domestic Support EN, because it was HUGE!!!!! I couldn't meet it, so I didn't try. But he didn't EXPECT me too, either.

Hmmm. I think I would start lining up some other guys to date. I would have a problem with someone who bought me breakfast, and not my kids.

My kids are grown now, but when I was dating, I appreciated men who would occasionally treat my kids too. After all, I fed my dates a lot at my house. It just seems kind of weird to me not to pay for the kids too. It is like there is some kind of individual line being drawn.

When my WH and I got together, I would also pay for meals for his kids sometimes. When I got a bonus at work, we all went to Disneyland, and even invited the kids mom.

Something here just doesn't seem right.

Also the thing about him always putting others first could end up being a HUGE problem. When I was dating my WH, it seemed like a wonderful trait to me. But try being married to someone like that. You may find that you and your children are last on his list, behind his family, his friends, workmates, acquaintances, and even the dog.

[color:"blue"] I go to bf's house for the same reason your bf probably went to your house. With kids running around there is not much privacy or time to be alone to meet any needs. [/color]



[color:"blue"]I think you are right but your guy was a dad - he had to learn to take care of his kids after his divorce and maybe during his marriage. My guy never had to care for anyone but himself after his divorce and probably during his marriage. His house is pretty neat but he hires people to do the major chores like baths and floors. He is very good about running a vacuum or keeping things neat and clean. [/color]



[color:"blue"] You may be right. [/color]



[color:"blue"] He does fine with his money. I already said I never expected him to pay the kid's way. I'm more upset about the dividing line that he NEVER pays the kid's way even occasionally. [/color]



[color:"blue"]I was not saying these ENs were not being met - I was simply pointing to two ENs that can be met better in different circumstances. [/color]



[color:"blue"] It is hard for him also to come to my messy chaotic house.

V.[/color]

hmmm... it seems from your valid defenses and descriptions of him, that he is not a bad guy, and perhaps you should work on relaxing your expectations some more.... yes -> boundaries are OK, without trying to control the situation... so that... your resentments will not build so much. Effective communication of your realistic expectations and needs are vital, however, in order for him to even have a chance at doing what you want... especially since he doesn't have kids.

letting him know it bothers you that he NEVER pays for the kids, and could ya'll brainstorm and negotiate and find a way to make this issue tolerable for both of you....

giving him specific tasks in the kitchen like "chop this onion" so he knows HOW to help you...

if you can relax and tolerate a little "chaos" on christmas, let him make some decisions and go where and when he wants that day, as long as he's including you, and as long as you're getting something you want also....

JUST some ideas. I'm not sure what else the resentments are about. Whatever they are, let them go, or talk to him about them. But you always come back defending him, and he really seems like a decent guy, so it seems worth giving him some slack, and figuring out how to communicate and negotiate on these "resentment" issues.

hugs

[color:"blue"] Thanks for the hugs Faith. I think that he may have been somewhat conditioned to panic when a "disagreement" arises.

I have never sent him the POJA - I think it is time. I try to follow it by suggesting things in an effort to brainstorm with abandon and he sometimes in panic mode responds with a "whatever you want" or all or nothing really quite defeatist attitude.

Kind of manipulative. I told him this last time that I wasn't really thinking that what he said in his last paragraph was entirely fair and he did admit that yeah it was kind of unfair.

I think that two people grow into Harley's rules. He states that if both are willing and apply the concepts consistently that compatibility is created. I think one of the biggest drawbacks to dating or renting is that you have two folks that still are in the mindset of I have my life and you have yours.

Harley's rules apply more toward creating a compatible lifestyle and tools to create harmony and happiness with two people that are committed to always being together and actually live in the same residence. Accommodations have to be made under the circumstances because both can't yin and yang without causing disruption in both of their lives.

While resentments can build with the yin and yang of two separate lives - it all boils down to the renter kind of attitude of well why shouldn't I? It's not like she owns me or anything. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

V.[/color]

This is what I'm understanding.

This man is your B/F but is hurt to be referred to as such, as he sees this as a very serious commitment. Are the two of you engaged?

Are these children yours, did he father one or more?

How long have you two been seeing each other?

It sounds like there is no commitment as far as engagement or marriage plans in the future? What does he say about that? If there is no commitment, other than you two seeing each other exclusively, and you have been or are okay with that, I think this man is very thoughtful, kind, loving, and generous to include you in his Holiday plans.

Knowing where this relationship is going is where the answer lies, IMHO. It sounds like you are needing more from him as far as where this is going in the future. It's hard for me to tell just by reading a few posts though, I know that none of us can see the whole picture from here.

V,

"dating or renting"

I don't know if this fits your situation, but I had a friend who went through a similar situation. What it came down was this; she was unsure about the status of her relationship with BF. (Both of them were.) They had been together for 2 years. He was holding back and she was starting to look for faults, yet defended him. One day they both sat down and had a discussion about what they wanted from their relationship, as it turned out, both wanted to include each other in their future plans. When this was understood by both parties, the dynamics of their relationship changed for the better. He was not holding back because he didn't have any fear of her not wanting a future with him and she stopped looking for faults and they were able to move in the same direction.

The only difference is he has a son, so he did not have to learn to deal with having kids included in the relationship.

The funny thing is this, when they both dated, my friend's job requires odd hours so she had her 3 kids every other weekends and a day here and there. Her BF had son every other weekend. Now he has son full time, she got a promotion with regular hours and her EX is going through divorce, so she has her kids full time plus their dog from their dad's house. Their house is chaotic but they both love it. They have handled it well.

[color:"blue"]TE,

He seems to consider it to be a serious relationship and maybe committed in his mind. I gave him the test and he came out a buyer. I look for fault more because I see him as content to go on indefinitely in the same manner - seeing each other mostly every other weekend and one night a week. I had many more renter questions than him marked true (9) and buyer questions (8) lost.

He has no children they are mine.

I don't consider it a true committment unless there are rings, vows, and property shared. We've been seeing each other for 17 months.

We've had talks about this and he is very quick to agree to looking for a place to live together, however doesn't follow through. After reading all the information here, I am very much against simply "living together" anyway, so I just let it slide.

I think my worst problem is that as a single mom I get overwhelmed with taking care of a house, children, and finding BF time. Seems like it would be easier to combine the chores or get rid of the BF. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

V. [/color]

Personally, from reading your posts, I think it's time to dump the guy.

If he's more worried about pleasing everyone else but you--doesn't say alot for how a marriage would be.

that he's not even talked to his parents about Christmas but is wanting YOU to cook everything be it at their house, his house or your house..is he planning on helping BUY the food at least??

I also see the vacation thing as a HUGE red flag blowing in the wind. HE invited YOU and YOUR KIDS on vacation, yet he's unwilling to help pay for them? I realize he's not their dad, but so what, HE MADE THE INVITATION and included them.

When my husband and I were dating, and we took the kids along, if I paid, I paid for all of us, if he paid he paid for ALL of us. It was NEVER He paid for him and I, and I paid for my kids. Shoot he even went grocery shopping and bought food knowing he also came over and had dinner.

He lived a good 40 minutes away from me when we dated, yet he made it a point to come over to see me, he even took out the trash, helped mow the yard, took my car in and had the brakes replaced so that he knew my car was safe for me to drive with me and my kids in it. I never asked him to do those things, he just seen something that needed done and did it.

it sounds more like he's a renter and not a buyer, I say that, only because his actions don't line up with his words,
I think he didn't answer the questions honestly but answered the way he thought you'd want him to answer. as He is after all trying to please everyone.