Hey LT~~

I thought it better not to take over the other thread.

Thanks for the update. I do think of you often.
So, it seems this nightmare is dragging it's ugly feet, still.
I'm sorry for you. That has got to be the worst.

I wonder just what he and his atty's feel he should have. My goodness.

It seems as though you and I are in the same spot, and doing the same things.
I have to say, while I'm doing better, I still think of xbf daily. Just the what if's kind of thing, or did I screw up totally kind of thoughts.
My x works at the same place as xbf does. Why he cares, I don't know. But, according to x, he says xbf is dating someone who just went through a divorce, and if it's who x thinks it is, she also just had a baby.
So, I'm thinking, xbf stepped into a mess.
The news was all pretty much a trigger for me, but I try to look forward.

I also went out this past weekend to a Halloween dance with friends. It was a fun time and I was out late, which is huge for me!

I'm not dating, looking, or caring just like you.

Thanks for the update! I wish we lived closer to each other. We could go to dinner. I bet we would have much to talk about.

K!

Hi K,

I'm glad I checked in tonight because I was thinking of starting a thread to you about running into XBF tonight. I saw him, I missed him, but then when we talked, and I began having the same reservations I had before. On the way home, I really started questioning myself about being terminally critical - like too critical to ever be happy in a relationship. I'm always wanting to improve on the guy, any guy - kind of like the women justinexplorer wrote about on his thread... the ones everyone thinks aren't very self-aware or happy with themselves... I really don't know if this is because I try to force a fit that really isn't right for either of us or because I'm just projecting all my own insecurities onto him.

My STBXH thought I was too critical and he always found other women who appreciated him... women he wasn't verbally abusive to, or married to.

Your relationship with your XBF sounds different from mine in that you said he had many/most of the qualities you were looking for but you just weren't ready for commitment. My XBF was good to me, which was wonderful after abusive marriage, but he wasn't what I wanted in some other ways. Yet, when I see him now, I see the good things, the things I miss, while at the same time, listening to him talk about his job and his family and wanting to offer (but not offering) the same suggestions I did in the past.

I really don't want to date again until I'm divorced and don't even know how I'll feel then. I don't know what it's going to take to finalize the divorce. I don't know what STBXH wants, though I'm sure he wants more than I offered. The problem is, I can't really afford more. We own several pieces of property in connection with our business. As he's dragged this out, property values have increased significantly as the mortgages have decreased. I've run the business alone while he hasn't worked since he left. Because he's not working, his lawyer wants me to pay attorney's fees and spousal support on top of all the money I'll owe him to buy him out, which I've offered in payments over the next 5 years. I don't even like to write about it because it gets me agitated. I basically try to just take it one day at a time and not project into the future... but, I'd really like to be able to put it behind me.

At least we're both getting out and having fun. My best, local, single friend had moved out of the area but moved back recently. She's much more eager to meet someone than I am, but for now, she's a great dance partner.

Great minds, right!

So you ran into xbf. Well tell me this. How about your stomach, any feelings there??
I know when I bumped into mine, it was pure fear. No flip flops, just the "what do I do" of course I looked down to the floor and acted like I didn't see him, and waited until the end of dinner to speak to him.
Silly, would seem like young stuff.

LT, I only know you from here, but you do not come across to me as a High Maintenance kind of person. I don't read you as a poor me, or that it's all about you.....
I think you have been severly hurt, and your being very cautious, with good reason.
I think that your bf perhaps wasn't the right fit. Maybe you wanted him to be, and that's where the improving comes in. And maybe that was what was happening when you ran into him. There were still things that you liked, if only......

I think I understand what your talking about. I had went out with a guy 2X. He was very nice, handsome, seems to have it together, the good things.
Well, he started right off seeming to like me, a lot. Which scared me to death. I was still in the don't like me that way place. But, the silly thing that was the deal breaker for me with him was, [and oh how I hate to type this on here] he had a radar detector in his vehicle, and it was on. It blew my mind! There was no reason in the world for him to use one where we live, in my opinion.
I just felt like he and I lived in different worlds.
He wants a cattle farm, and I want to see NYC.
But, when I told him I didn't want to continue going out,
it really bothered me. I felt like there was something wrong with ME. Kind of like what your talking about.

I think we both desire a strong healthy relationship, when the timing if right. I think the man will come along for both of us, and their good qualities will surpass the little things that we can live with.
It must just be that for now [or where we have been] the timing wasn't right.

I'm glad you have a fun friend to go out with. That makes the healing time and the time in between more bearable.

I've read another book. It's called, It's Called a Break-up Because It's Broken. There were some good points in it. Some silliness too. It was much like the He's Just Not That Into You. Same author. But, I did find it helpful. It helps you to feel it's not all you.

As far as your STBXH, I think he thinks you owe him the world. I hope you have a good atty that is going to make sure that you don't.
I can't even imagine what you have are are dealing with this whole mess.

You sound to me like you are in a good mind set as far as dating right now. I hope the process will move along for you, and you can put this part of your life behind you.

K!

Hi Karona-

I saw this post and had to jump in. It has been a long time, and I have no excuse, but will hopefully make up for it.

As I read both of your descriptions of dating readiness. I think you are both doing a great job. Neither of you are forcing things and you will know when you are ready.

I myself never felt that I wasn't ready to date and both of the men I have dated have been long term relationships. Of course I had been apart from my HX for 15 months and divorced for 2 when I first dating. That turned into an almost three year relationship that I left feeling healthy and happy, just knowing that deep down we wanted different things. I will admit though that I had very little down time between it and my next relationship and that has caused me problems.

I now find myself newly single and hurting a lot. Of course had I chosen to follow MB advice, and my own instincts I would not be in this mess so it is my own fault.

When I met my latest XBF I had recently broken up with my first BF. My BF and I were long distance, and in addition to this I felt very attention starved, etc. The new man was a friend who seemingly did everything right. He gave me unlimited attention and met all the needs my XBF had not. It was wonderful. Of course he consequently going through a divorce and I should have known better.

We went through a rough time this summer where he felt he was rushing things and needed a break. During this time he kept in constant contact and I was a mess. I should have listened to the wise here who said not only was he not ready, he was showing definite control issues. Anyhow, we got back together and have been until this week. During that time I have found him to be very controlling and possesive. We argue a lot over seemingly everything and I honestly don't feel comfortable being myself. I feel like I have taken so many major steps backwards in my healing.

Anyhow, we ended things earlier this week. Since that time he vasiclates from being mean and demeaning to kind and supportive. I recognize that it is all part of the control game, but it is still hard to deal with. I have asked him for no contact, just like this summer and we will see how it goes.

As you write about seeing your XBH's I shudder. Where my last relationship ended at a good place for me, this one leaves me feeling alone, deceived, and hurt. I don't want to see him at all.

Because I know how much "under his spell" I am I have broadcast news of our breakup to all of my friends in hopes that they will keep me away from him. It is so hard when you find yourself in love with someone who is no good for you.

Anyhow, I am rambling and have taken over your thread. For this I apologize. I just needed to get this off my chest and to people who would understand.

Take care and God bless!
K

Still!!!!! If you only knew the crappy day I have been having, and how hearing from you has made my day! Great to hear from you. I hoped you would be back to chime in. You know your always welcome! Anyone else too, for that matter.

A big Hug to you! I'm sorry for your latest news.
I wonder about you often, and how things were going with the bf. I had hoped things were well since you had not been on the boards.

So, he's a bit controlling. Still, that's not you. Not the you that I'm come to know here. If you can't feel like yourself, that cannot be a good thing.

None the less, it hurts like crazy! And the down time is the worst. I know all about the spell. It's a hard thing to break! I'm entering the 6 mo now, and it's still a challenge.
Please stay in touch, and let us know how things are going for you, and if he's respecting your boundaries.

How is your school year going? Did your little one start pre school this year? She may still be too young, I can't remember exactly.

I am excited to hear from you
Take care,
K!

Hey Karona-

Glad I could cheer you up! I myself am having a lousy day! I just learned from a friend that not only is he controlling, he possibly may have cheated on me a few weeks ago. I am feeling sick right now! It is like Deja Vu all over again!

As for the rest of my life, things are going okay. I will admit though that in an effort to jump through the seemingly endless hoops established by my boyfriend I have become emotionally drained!

School is going ok. I actually like the middle school age, but I am less than thrilled with my subject. At least I have a job though.

Yes, the youngest did start preschool and is absolutely loving it. My oldest turns 13 today. Where does the time fly.

I will write more, but I have to get my bearings before the kids come back from lunch. Will life ever get easy?

I've missed you!

Take care and God bless!

K

Wow, still, your story only makes me less anxious to get back into dating! Sorry to hear about the break-up. You mention not following MB advice. I wish following MB advice was all it took to prevent heartbreak! Since none of us can ever do everything perfectly, then it once again becomes our failure, or at least, that's where I go for myself. Even if you'd waited longer, you might not have seen XBF's controlling behavior until you'd been dating a while...

Thanks K, you're right, it wasn't the right fit. I like him, like a lot of things about him, but not enough. Selfishly, I just hate that he feels the same way! I run into him frequently. It's only sort of awkward. Last night he really seemed to want to talk. I'm pretty sure he's not dating and he's probably lonely, too - not a good reason to spend time together!

IF your XBF wanted to get back together, would you consider it, or do you think you'd start having reservations again after you got back together?

My personal fear is that at 54, I haven't had a successful relationship and maybe never will. I've had successful moments, but looking back, nothing I'd want to repeat. For now, not being legally divorced (though H has been gone for 5 years and we've had no contact for 3.5 years) is the best reason not to date, that and no one is asking. I'm not sure how I'd react if someone did. My age, living in a rural area, as well as the fact that I've never dated much at any age, diminish my dating prospects.

Oh Still,

My blood is boiling for you. You deserve for more than to have this happen to you.

Please think long and hard before allowing him to come into your life again.

My oldest will turn 15 in Dec and get her permit. Talk about life blowing by quickly!
My youngest is 11 and keeps us entertained!

I've missed you too. Oh the fun we would have if we lived closer.

K!

I couldn't agree more LT! I'm so afraid to care for someone again. It's pretty much what has brought me to my latest point. If dating involves hurting, no thank you!

Oh boy, I'd say you were wise to move along from xbf. That could have been....oh goodness!

As far as your question. Oh, I've only asked myself that question about a gazillion times.
If, and a big if it is, that were to happen. I think he let me down and I couldn't allow myself to go back. I think I long for what WAS. What I had was so wonderful, with the exception of myself, and where I was. But, I believed with my whole heart all that he told me, and never felt as loved as he loved me. Only to find that I could be replaced so effortlessly. It makes me doubt the whole meaning of love, when it comes to him. If I could send a song to him, it would be the one by Faith Hill and TM, "Like We Never Loved At All" That describes how I feel to a T! It gives me chills when I hear it.
So, even though I know all this stuff, it still hurts like crazy!

I so understand what you are saying. I feel that way about myself too. I'm 42. I realize, that's younger, but the feeling is still there. I also fear that men could turn away from me upon the knowledge of my daughter's health concerns. Which, I'm sure that crosses your mind to with what you have been through personally.
We were both married for a long time. We gave our young years to the men that broke our hearts. But, we still have hearts and hopefully someone will find them through our ages and through our life trials.

It's so good to have you and Still around!
K!

Still, I didn't see your 2nd post when I posted last. So sorry about the latest possibility. I can't imagine going through that particular heartbreak again!

K, Yeah, I may be critical of the men in my life, but I'm twice as critical of me! XBF may not have what I want, but who's going to want what I have? It's not that I feel bad about myself, just about the possibility of finding someone compatible whose life would mesh with mine. As for the health issues, XBF's reaction, or should I say nonreaction, helped a lot to make that seem like less of a roadblock.

Well ladies. Of course he is denying the latest information, but it came from a good friend of his who was there. I only learned of it now because he felt it was better to wait and see how things played out. The friend says that my XBF said nothing happened, but I know he spent the night in his bedroom with another woman. That is bad enough, especially coming from where I have come from.

As I learn more about him I am sickened. He was so wonderful at first. It wasn't until he had me hooked that the changes began. Sure they were subtle at first, but intensified quite a bit. I feel so used and manipulated! I think I will be sick!

I am beginning to see where the trust issues come in. After my divorce I always remained trusting realizing that all men weren't my XH. My first boyfriend although lacking in other areas was always completely trustworthy right up unitl the end. Now this. My instincts were so off on this guy!

As for both of your issues. Keep patient ladies, our days are coming! Good luck with the D LetSTry. Karona, it must be difficult feeling that you were the center of his world and then feeling so quickly replaced. I can relate a lot with my last BF, although different circumstances and in my case done in an effort to control I was either on a pedestal or in the gutter. Funny thing is, that I never did all that much to facilitate where I was in his opinion! Karona, given the circumstances, do you think your guy needs to be needed?

Thanks for the support!

Take care and God Bless!
K

"Karona, given the circumstances, do you think your guy needs to be needed?"

I would say most definitely Still. It has to be that.
If [and again, I say why does my x give a rats A88] xh has his info right. Xbf is involved with someone who just finished or in process of divorce and if same person, just had a baby. I would say that puts him in a very needed position.

He becomes the white knight.

In my mind, when I think of my whole role with him. I think why in the world would he get involved with another woman just going through the D process. I was so mixed up, surely this woman must be too???

Still, as far as the whole bedroom deal. I'm not buying into it. I'm not saying he's guilty, BUT what business did he have having a woman in his bedroom? If there was nothing going on, I'm thinking the couch would have been suffice for someone to sleep on.

Oh girls, who would think we were adults and having this conversation??

I hate both of your pains, but it's so comforting to know I'm not alone.

K!

K, I guess some things never change... It's scary that the ones for whom we feel those stomach flutters turn out to be well, less than honorable and/or emotionally unstable, needy, etc. How do we get all, or at least the essentials, in one package? I also wonder if I can be all the essentials for someone, too...

Still, arguing about what he did in the bedroom is really beside the point. What was he doing there at all? You're right, it's definitely bad enough! My XBF sounds like you're 1st XBF - lacking in some areas but completely trustworthy.

LT~~

"How do we get all, or at least the essentials, in one package? I also wonder if I can be all the essentials for someone, too..."

So I've been told, there is a guy for each of us that we desire, and that we will be all that he desires. Hah, I've also been told the fun part is trying to find him!
I don't know that I agree with the latter.

I'm hoping when the time comes for us, it will all just fall into place.

K!

Yeah, what you said, if it's meant to be. Sometimes I wonder if it's just a cop out, but all I'm doing right now is working on being the best person I can be, which means mostly loving myself rather than looking for someone to love me, and having faith that I'm where I'm supposed to be right now and will always be there if I just open my eyes and look around instead of focusing on the past and the future. Whew, that was all one sentence. I'm sure my 8th grade grammar teacher would insist on a couple more periods in there somewhere!

You ladies raise some very good points. Points I rose myself when talking with XBF yesterday. At first he denied everything, but then came clean. From what I can ascertain he and a friend got a ride home from a bar from a group of people. The lady in question hopped out with them and said she was coming in for a drink.

My first question, "Why didn't you tell her no?"

To which I got, "It all happened so quickly and we had been drinking."

Then I asked how it went from the drink to the bedroom and he replied, "We told her it was time for her to go and she said she didn't have a ride so one of us had to drive her. We told her neither of us was in driving condition so she said she was staying."

At this point I told him that was his cue to tell her to leave to which he replied, "She was really weird, I didn't want her doing anything to my house."

I replied, "That is a weak excuse. If and when you ever want me to leave you ask me to, it's not that hard. I then asked him even if that was true how did they end up in the bedroom?"

He said, "My friend took the couch and she went in the bedroom. I wasn't going to have her in there with all my stuff so I went in and slept in my clothes on the floor."

Once again I told him that he should have sent her home and he agreed, but said he didn't know what to do. I don't know that I buy that.

Anyhow, I got the original information from the friend's girlfriend. At this point I got upset and that is when I posted here. I talked to the friend and he pretty much confirmed my XBF's story, adding that the woman was really weird and saying the whole thing was stupid. He then told me that XBF had told him he told me all about it so he assumed it was no big deal.

Anyhow, I don't think the friend would lie and I think the XBF sounds sincere too, but the whole point is why they let it get to the point it did in the first place and why not tell me?

My XBF told me that he didn't because he knew I would be upset. Yes, I would, but I am a rational person. I asked him how he would have felt if the tables were turned and he said he would have freaked and that is the main reason he didn't tell me. The whole thing leaves me unsettled.

On another note. Yesterday morning I was at my wit's end and in an effort to get some understanding I talked to my XBF's XW. Yes, I know, I probably shouldn't have, but I was looking for some insight. Nothing bad was said by either of us. Anyhow, last night as XBF and I were talking I felt we hit a point where we were being honest and open and so I told him what I had done. I didn't want it to be a secret. He freaked out. I know it wasn't the best choice, but I needed some answers for myself and I really didn't do it in an effort to hurt him.

So now we are back in the same place only intensified by a million! He tells me I have betrayed him and ruined his life and that he wants nothing to do with me, yet he keeps calling and texting. I really am losing it.

Suggestions? I know I made some mistakes, but realistically can you tell me how out of line I was. Please don't hold back.

Take care and God bless!
K

Oh Still~~

What to say??

So, he is the xbf??
First I would have to ask:
Have you thought long and hard, is this "the person" you want to have a LTR with?
Do you see yourself with this person in the long term??
If you are unclear and think it's possible, then in my opinion, you should try to come to a common ground.

If his hoops are too hard to jump through, then maybe it's time to really think about the longevity of this relationship.

As far as talking to his x, I have to tell you, I have thought several times about figuring out a way to talk to woman my xbf dated before me. My thought was, I could find validatation or understanding to my whole saga I could move on easier. However, I have not done this.

Perhaps it wasn't the best choice speaking to her, but I don't think it's the worst either. And, by far, I don't see where you betrayed him. I'd say he's embarassed, but betrayal? NO!

I still remain strong in that, I don't think this woman belonged in his bed. I don't disagree that she was weird though. Any woman that hops out of a car with men she doesn't know is not all there.

Just so you know, I won't judge you for whatever decision you make with bf. As long as you're happy with your decisions, I'm happy for you.

Karona

Hi again-

Thanks for the insights. We talked again last night and the only topics covered were the woman in the bedroom and me talking to the XW. It is weird, we have been having some very intense conversations, but I feel we are really communicating, not arguing even though we both feel very hurt and betrayed.

As for the woman in the bed. I am to the point I don't think anything happened. I am nutty about this. When my XH was in the midst of his A I wanted every detail. I need to hear it all and process no matter how tough. Well, I did that last night. I asked about every minute detail, conversation, placement, etc. What I have concluded is: 1. She went in the room and said she was going to bed.
2. He followed her in there to see what she was doing(He is anal about his things to a fault) and he got a pillow and blanket and laid on the floor.
3. She told him he could sleep with her and he declined.
4. He got up, woke her told her he was leaving for the day and she needed to go (he said being sober and thinkig clearly he didn't want her coming back), woke his friend on the couch and they drove her to her car.
5. They returned to his house and talked about all of it, how bizarre, and concluded that both I and the other guys girlfriend needed to know.
6. The friend told his girlfriend. Mine chickened out, once again stating that he knew how he would react and couldn't do it.
7. The girlfriend tells me after I tell her we broke up and I am looking at the reasons why, figuring my part, etc.

Anyhow, I think it is nutty that any woman would go into a strange house with two strange men, but I am still upset that they let it happen. Hello! Just say no!

The whole thing brings back so many horrible memories. I know I can't project my XH on this BF, but having been told so many times nothing happened, it just looked bad, it makes me physically ill. I don't think XBF has a clue how traumatic this is for me.

As for talking with the XW, I know I shouldn't have done it, but who better? Like I said there was no bad mouthing and no specifics shared. I know it is unfair, as they are two separate relationships, but I was just looking for a clue. I think he realizes this, but he is a very private person so he is still very angry.

Do I see a future with him. In many ways yes. In so many ways he treats me so well. My problems come in because he is so needy in the time department. He wants us to be together every waking moment - an extremely difficult thing for me as the single mother of four. He does do a lot with the kids and I as well. He wants all my kid free time however and it is hard. While he never tells me not to do stuff with anybody, he makes me feel guilty when I do. I have spent a lot of time explaining how I know we don't have the freedom of alone time anytime we want it, but that when we are apart and he has his guy or alone time, I am with my kids so the only girl/alone time I get is when they are gone. It is so hard.

The only other problem we have is that he has a definite need to be right all the time. My dad was this way and even though I loved him dearly, we clashed a lot over it. So much that I have always shied away from that type of man even though they always say that we look for our fathers in the men we date. I can honestly say for the first time in my life I think I have found him!

Enough about me and my continual soap opera life. How are you ladies? You both seem so confident and strong. There are many times lately when I feel the need for my independence so I can find myself. I think I am such a nut!

Karona, as for your XBF, he seems to have the need to be the night in shining armor. Another woman going through a divorce, this time with a baby? You say you still think about him daily? Do you think that you want another chance, do you think he is the one? You have mentioned other dates. Have you had many?

LetsTry, you seem so peaceful in spite of your struggles. I so want that.

I really better run, but thanks again for listening to me. I really need this place. I always think I can go away, but I always come back because you guys understand me so well.

Take care and God bless!
K

K (Still Reeling), It sounds like progress that you and X?BF are talking about your hurts with each other. I think all of us who've been through a betrayal in our most intimate relationship will forever be more sensitive to this issue. I was way too trusting in my M and way to willing to believe H's lies that "nothing" was going on... wasn't there an old song about "nobody" or am I dating myself? Much of that was based on fear - I couldn't bear for it to be true but, of course, it was.

Have you been able to talk about his need to always be right?

Thank you for saying I seem peaceful. My peace has come at a high price. I've had the worst 3 things I could think of happen in my life (and I think I'll avoid thinking about others for fear they could happen, too!) and I survived. I'm less fearful now, in general, but at the same time, I feel the loss of innocence I once felt about relationships.

Hopefully, that will turn out to be a good thing - the realization that Prince Charming is never coming, that no relationship is perfect, that commitment means working on meeting each others' needs, relationships don't "just happen", and that a serious red flag for me is falling in love with a man's "potential" and overlooking "dealbreaker" issues for the sake of maintaining harmony.

Letstry,
Your last paragragh sums it up quite nicely.
"Good" relationships do take work. I think when the day comes for us, we will be more prepared than ever because of the trials we have been through, and we will have an awesome relationship.

Still,
I still have the ? in your bf title too. I'm a bit confused, are you on again?
You say you could possibly see a future with him, but he is needy. That was my #1 complaint with my xbf, but boy did he treat me wonderful.
The only advice I can give you Still is, think long and hard before you give him up. I would lie to say I didn't make a mistake. I think I will always regret losing him, UNLESS I were to ever meet someone that could blow him out of the water.
If you feel there is something there, then take the time to REALLY get to know him. Make sure that you can't live without him.

You asked about my date. I met a guy on a dating site.
He lost his wife, I think 2 years ago. Very nice guy. Nice looking too! Not too tall, same height as me, which still bothers me.
I only went out with him two times, but he seemed to really like me, and I couldn't handle it. He said the most sincere things to me, in fact he made me cry 2X from his sincerity.[thru email of course, not in person]
I hurt because I couldn't open up my heart to him. This is a guy that would treat me wonderful [I'm betting] but I was still hurting from xbf that I couldn't put my heart out there. That was 2 mos ago.
There was more to it than that though. He and I did seem different. He wants to have a cattle farm, I want to see the city. I just felt like we were worlds apart.

UPDATE today,
I have a guy interested in getting my phone #.
I went to a Halloween dance last weekend. Went to a [divey] bar afterwards with my daughter's teacher. She and her husband introduced me to a teacher/coach, and he wants me # I just found out today. Funny thing is, he may be totally surprised if he ever meets me again. I had a BLONDE long wig on that night. My hair is short and brown! It could all be a fantasy!! But, it is impressive that he has went out of his way somewhat to ask for my #.
Also,
there is a guy that has been mentioned to me ever since friends started to find out I was going to be single [almost 3 yrs ago now]. He again is someone who has lost his wife.
My closest friend here had lunch with him today concerning me. She said, sometimes there needs to be intervention and this is one of those times. [this is all her doing, but I have expressed interest when she mentioned him to me]
Anyway, I guess he currently is going out with someone, but is not serious with her.
This is someone who I'd be interested in meeting.
SO, my question is??
Do I give out my # to this first guy, or wait on the IF chance that this second guy would ever be interested in meeting me?
One of my other biggest obstacles with xbf was that I needed to be honest with myself and date. So, with that in mind, I should try to win a date with the 1st guy right?

I'll be waiting for some advice.

Karona