"SF is sporadic and more like a chore for her than something to help re-connect and re-create affection."

This is a DJ which hurts you and your relationship. Coming from your expectation, not hers. She desires to meet your EN and does...desiring to meet your EN is an action to re-connect...don't block this in yourself...and look at your expectation...ask it to stand aside...and receive what you're being given without judgment.

This is still about you making your choice to love and your actions...respect her choices, 'k?

You know, O&H statements can sound like reports at first...again, a desire to re-connect, a choice made...look at your expectations...you are feeling fear...and your monitoring is high...relax...count how she is there...

Her presence.
Her acts of affection, SF, attention, participation, family commitment...they are there...hold off on your judgment of quantity...because this is coming from your expectation, not her choices.

You know your struggle with feeling safe? Can you focus on being safe for conversation and see if your fear lessens? I know you believe they are coming from two different sources...reasonable...I just found that if I focused on what was in my power, rather than what wasn't, then my feeling of safety, security, increased.

The listen and repeat...truly eliminating my beliefs and permissions to DJ, AO, withdraw, punish, etc...those are what changed my life, Eagle.

As for snooping and assurance...hey, I waited three months for WH to recommit...and yes, I snooped...and found...and didn't find...and I had to wean myself off of that behavior after recommitment...and it took awhile. I owned my triggers and compulsions...own your suspicions and doubt...you can speak to fill your O&H commitment...and tell self you're aware and in control...you about you...

By product? I became safe for my WH, then FWH...I didn't make him change...by choosing a different perspective. Your choice, as well.

And I think you are changing a lot of your beliefs...just look out for those sneaky expectations...which are premediated resentments...

When you do this, would you be in limboland? Or would you be solidly on the road to personal recovery?

In your corner,

LA

LA,

I'm getting better at this and you are showing me the way. I learn quite a few things from you every day. I am now seeing things in a better light and now see exactly what you are saying about my previous post. I totally agree. I am and will always be a work in progress, a very good thing I think.

"SF is sporadic and more like a chore for her than something to help re-connect and re-create affection."

This is a DJ which hurts you and your relationship. Coming from your expectation, not hers. She desires to meet your EN and does...desiring to meet your EN is an action to re-connect...don't block this in yourself...and look at your expectation...ask it to stand aside...and receive what you're being given without judgment.
[color:"blue"] YUP great perspective, I'm learning, if only it will stick. [/color]
This is still about you making your choice to love and your actions...respect her choices, 'k?
[color:"blue"]K [/color]

You know, O&H statements can sound like reports at first...again, a desire to re-connect, a choice made...look at your expectations...you are feeling fear...and your monitoring is high...relax...count how she is there...
[color:"blue"] I did not think of it that way. Makes perfect sense. This would be a DOH!(Homer Simpson) moment for me. [/color]

Her presence.
Her acts of affection, SF, attention, participation, family commitment...they are there...hold off on your judgment of quantity...because this is coming from your expectation, not her choices.
[color:"blue"]DOH YUP [/color]

You know your struggle with feeling safe? Can you focus on being safe for conversation and see if your fear lessens? I know you believe they are coming from two different sources...reasonable...I just found that if I focused on what was in my power, rather than what wasn't, then my feeling of safety, security, increased.
[color:"blue"]I am working very hard on that and she has started to talk more about things of interest to her, I find they are of interest to me as well. Except country music, I'm still a hard rocker Ted Nugent style. [/color]

The listen and repeat...truly eliminating my beliefs and permissions to DJ, AO, withdraw, punish, etc...those are what changed my life, Eagle.

[color:"blue"]Yes and as I improve in these areas of my life I already see improvement in my life. [/color]

As for snooping and assurance...hey, I waited three months for WH to recommit...and yes, I snooped...and found...and didn't find...and I had to wean myself off of that behavior after recommitment...and it took awhile. I owned my triggers and compulsions...own your suspicions and doubt...you can speak to fill your O&H commitment...and tell self you're aware and in control...you about you...
[color:"blue"] Much better philosphy than I was using [/color]

By product? I became safe for my WH, then FWH...I didn't make him change...by choosing a different perspective. Your choice, as well.
[color:"blue"]I am convinced and a believer. [/color]

And I think you are changing a lot of your beliefs...just look out for those sneaky expectations...which are premediated resentments...
[color:"blue"]They are sneaky and I will keep a sharp eye out. Resentments may be harder though. I will work on them also. [/color]

When you do this, would you be in limboland? Or would you be solidly on the road to personal recovery?

[color:"blue"]I believe recovery, which is definitely where I want to be. [/color]

Thank you LA! I will continue on this path, it is much brighter and happier than the other path.

"I am working very hard on that and she has started to talk more about things of interest to her, I find they are of interest to me as well. Except country music, I'm still a hard rocker Ted Nugent style."

LOL!

Believe it or not...you can get to the point where hearing your wife speak about what her music means to her is more fascinating and pleasurable than cat-scratchin' fever around...oh heck, was that Teddy's?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

See, live really isn't the subject...it's subjective. You're already finding more joy, I believe, in one day than you might have in a month...and it will grow and grow.

You're inspiring, Eagle...your personal recovery is inspiring...you ripple around the world.

LA

Well,

Things are getting better, SF is smoothing out, more spontaneous and affectionate.

She seems to be settling in and becoming more comfortable.

Catch Scratch Fever is Ted Nugent all the way. WOOO HOOO!

We are talking more easily and appears to be more freely. Also went to see Over the Hedge, Great movie we laughed and laughed, kids love it too.

Overall a great weekend. Vegas for my sister's wedding next weekend. Looking forward to that.

Glad things are better, Eagle. I hope you and your wife are a success story.

Thank you for the update, Eagle...

Are you seeing her as new more now, as you are seeing yourself new?

Helps with spontaneity, intimacy, and joy.

You weren't big on joy.

Might be in your present, hmmm?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Believer,

Thank you, things are getting better.

LA,

Maybe I answered your last question too soon. Yes I am seeing people in a different light. Yes I am seeing her as new same and equal as me. Yes helps a lot. Definitely!

Thank you!

An update,

FWW is doing most things, ILY, SF, 15hrs, affection, but still AWOL in the H&O/Transparency department. Found calling card, AT&T confirmed it has been used and who to, waiting for her to open up and fess up. Kids doing well, I'm OK, things could be worse and better at same time.

The rollercoaster ride continues!

Confirmed to show that she's been using it to call OM?

405 area code, OMs area code and her partner in crime GF who assisted in covering up A.

Recent dates or march dates?

Oh, Eagle...my heart goes out to you. Tell me, if this is recent and she didn't tell you...why would you wait for her to? If it isn't right away (same day or within a day), then it's a lie...you know that.

What was your predetermined boundary enforcement?

LA

Eagle,

I totally agree with LA. If this is recent contact that you're talking about, then confront her with it point blank. Did you two come to an agreemant about her not talking with the evil friend? What about any kind of agreemant to NC?

Confront...immediately, and directly. Make it clear that you love the changes she's made so far, but ANY form of contact with OM (even through the friend) is totally unacceptable, and she knows that. And make it clear that the LIES hurt as much as anything else...and this is another "lie by omission".

Be direct...don't yell or fight, but don't let her deny or back out of it either. Remember...the louder she is, the quieter you are...but at the same time, be FIRM.

LA,

Aug 17 9:20 AM.

Found calling card 19 Sep. Confronted, all I got was "I forgot it was in there, I hadn't used in months (finally admitted maybe May), I forget who probably BGF & Mom, ATT ponied up limited information. BGF was supposed to be NC from April when I found the cell phone.

Waiting based on JHC's request to "give it a few weeks, she apparently does not feel safe." My question though was and still is "When do I get to feel safe?" Soon is all I get along with "You've got to continue holding things together for a little longer, she is coming around." So I haven't enforced the "you are outta here" part of the boundary.

1 year D-Day is rapidly approaching (14 Oct) as is her B-Day (15 Oct), not sure what to do. Continue as advertised I guess. She is sick right now flu & cold like symptoms.

Thank you LA for checking in.

Owl,

Nice to hear from you, haven't in a while.

NC was agreed about BGF, apparently didn't count. Haven't yelled or fought since late July or early Aug, then just expressing sadness of sitch and how I felt. We shall see how this works out.

Thank you for being here, you and LA are true lifesavers.

So what was her response when you confronted her about contacting BGF/OM? I'm not sure I've understood what you said there.

Bottom line is...she violated NC with this person. So what 'garauntee' is she willing to provide that it won't happen again???

Owl,

Response was "I don't remember and I don't know, I think around the first of May" Adamantly denied contact with OM. There is no garauntee, that is why I don't feel safe.

She contacted Jennifer and immediately got an appt with her. I spoke to Jennifer as well and was told hang in there, be a rock, no DJs or LBs, she is slowly coming around. So here I am, so far Jennifer has been right, slow, but right. Limbo land I guess.

I have asked Jennifer about an "Expected level of knowledge, experience, competency, you know, things a 39 soon to be 40 year old woman should know" kind of thing. This question is brought about by her actions with the cell phone and this card.

It's like her mind was wiped clean, she has to re-learn everything, I just don't know. Very confusing for me.

OK..she says it was May...what dates do you have on the calls? And when did you two reach the agreemant on NC?

I'm kinda lost here...when did she make the calls vs. when she agreed to NC? How recent were these calls?

Eagle,

I'm with Owl...AT&T has limited info? Just gave you the basic info you gave us...no dates supplied? Even a month of last usage? I'm perplexed, too!

"Waiting based on JHC's request to "give it a few weeks, she apparently does not feel safe." My question though was and still is "When do I get to feel safe?""

Okay, did you or did you not take a vow to yourself to NOT choose to do that for which you will resent?

I think you did. I'm not getting senile. Where's those O&H statements here? "I feel sideswiped, whacked on the head, my heart is jumping like a mexican bean on a hot day...my hidden fear of recurrence is strangling me"...where are those?

And have you fallen off with those "I" statements as the fights dropped off, the ILYs commenced again...the 15 hrs of UA? Have you been fingering the wound from DDay, approaching the anniversary time? I remember. Hard to breathe...second anniversary...piece of cake...forgot it all together.

"Soon is all I get along with "You've got to continue holding things together for a little longer, she is coming around." So I haven't enforced the "you are outta here" part of the boundary."

You can't enforce without proof. I KNOW I have cards (scan stuff...like gift cards to restaurant cards) I don't know I have...wedged in a batch in my pocket book...which I don't look at...unless I'm looking for my dental appt card, somehow sandwiched in that batch (and it's paper, not plastic), and I STILL ignore those cards, though briefly think..."I wonder if I still have $8 on that Red Lobster card, hmmm" as I rush off to the dentist.

I'm not making excuses. Your emotions are valid. Your fear is real...acting from it would be a poor choice. Not Eagle...not the bravest man on earth...and if you've been cheating on your resentment diet, you might be salivating to have your fear proven true...you are all human.

Tell me what you're thinking, feeling, believing, and perceiving...dish, dude!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Breathe, too.

We're here...our privilege.

LA

Owl,

Aug 17 @ 9:20 AM 1 min, same as what was used on cell she would call, her # would show and he would call back. All they will give. NC was in April around the 4th.

LA,

Okay, did you or did you not take a vow to yourself to NOT choose to do that for which you will resent?
[color:"blue"] Yup sure did, haven't done anything to regret or resent, confronted and accepted her answer. It eats at me though. [/color]
I think you did. I'm not getting senile. Where's those O&H statements here? "I feel sideswiped, whacked on the head, my heart is jumping like a mexican bean on a hot day...my hidden fear of recurrence is strangling me"...where are those?
[color:"blue"] No LA you are far from senile. Yup used I would love it if, I feel, etc... They have become part of my vocabulary, get teased a bit at work about it. No fear, not scared of anything, just want honesty and openess. More disappointed and depressed about it than anything, feels like failure and wasting time. No anger, just kind of sad. [/color]
And have you fallen off with those "I" statements as the fights dropped off, the ILYs commenced again...the 15 hrs of UA? Have you been fingering the wound from DDay, approaching the anniversary time? I remember. Hard to breathe...second anniversary...piece of cake...forgot it all together.
[color:"blue"] Nope using I statements, I have spent a lot of money and time, Jennifer has beat them into my head, hence the teasing at work. Been working the 15 hrs, make 2 each day most days, make up missed time on weekends. Kids are getting to point they want their own time so we get a lot on weekends, usually good time.

Been worried about D-Day, but not really upset, big difference here, I did listen and learn. Nothing I can do about it, but try and retake it for us, remake it as ours with no influence from the past (did I say that right???), own it again, overwrite it. Been looking for a getaway, not too far, not too close. Still looking. Want to make her B-Day happy again, bleach out the stain so to speak.

I took her word at face value, but verified as best I could. I have not taken any action as I don't feel there is enough evidence. Still makes me feel sad though.

Nope don't want any repeat performances. Once is too much of this stuff. So no I don't want fears proven right, hope means things will eventually get better. They are slowly but surely. Just can't figure how a person can go from being smart and having a lot of common sense to completely confused. This is where the expected knowledge comes in, still haven't gotten a easy to understand answer from Jennifer, so now I'm confused about it.

I know I can only control me so I am. What does Bush call it quiet something or other. Just watching and waiting, patience grasshopper! I still haven't snatched the stones, but working on it.[/color]