Thank you very much, Eagle, for the color tip...I did try it, as I promised, and nixed out my words (highlighting and then hitting color...don't do that)...then I tried cutting and pasting in between...so thank you very much for your help.

New condundrum...If I put your words in blue...because I like that continuation...and leave mine in black, then what would I use if I were to quote myself?

I'm not really into the snake eating itself image, but life hands me this stuff.

:<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />:

Here's me quoting me:

"Do you fear being manipulated?"

[color:"blue"] "Yes as it makes me feel I am being tricked into something I wouldn't normally do."
[/color]
Did you read my Owning All Your Villagers Thread?

Okay, detour...seemingly...

[color:"blue"] "True, I don't like being wrong maybe fear it," [/color] Could you go a little more into that "maybe" fearing? What does being wrong about something represent to you?

[color:"blue"] "I am misunderstood a lot, doesn't bother me much, but does to some extent." [/color] Thank you for your honesty.

[color:"blue"] "I want to be judged well, it is improtant to me," [/color]

Why is being judged well important to you?

[color:"blue"] "It does upset me, so I look for the lesson in there and try to impprove and grow from the lesson. Maybe a defense mechanism to keep from being judged poorly or neing seen in a bad light." [/color] Which do you feel more fear from...being judged poorly or not being judged at all?

To be open to a new way of living can be fear-filled. If you have lived in acute awareness of being wrong, doing wrong...then this might be really difficult to take in. I'm asking you to, anyway.

I heard more beliefs in your response... "Humans make mistakes." Can I expand that belief? "Humans make mistakes; they can't be one."

What do you think?

Does this seem like a reasonable amendment...a clarifying one?

All that I am saying will culminate in being about betrayal...how being betrayed, how you experience it, is largely determined by you. Seems like an unjust power to me. Truth remains.

If you have lived your life carefully, watchful and attentive, concerned and diligently, to be wrong as little as possible, to do the most good, save the damsels and allow their influence; to do no harm, be good and judged well, then infidelity will be a breakdown inside of you, which your belief...that if you did all these things in this way, then your payoff will NOT be betrayal...will take you to an intensity and depth you had previously not imagined in any way.

And by living this way, you have taught yourself to manipulate life itself for your ultimate protection. By your actions and intent to be safe, you become more vulnerable than you imagined possible as a human.

I am not attacking you. Please consider that this way of life, of earning protection and love, requires a lot of manipulation, a lot of fine tuning your choices, deep commitment to improvement, bullet-proofing your self image and earning your own respect...has betrayed you. Adding to betrayal feels the same...just more intensely.

That "Wow" you felt, a tingle of excitement, a widening of your mind, when you read that thread, was you catching a glimpse of freedom...self free to be self...and if you can consider your perspective like going through a minefield...and this one to running through it joyfully...I think you can pursue that original excitement...before the fear rushes in, because it abhors freefall.

Tell me your payoff in judgment...that constant hum inside and outside of you...which is evaluative, assessing...look inside yourself for what you feel when you are judged well...and when you judge well. And when you are judged badly and judge badly (tricked).

And I'm tying this into the fear of being tricked...not because it rhymes with kicked...though I like that, too...but because behind those two situations, there is an illusion of power, which is the same powerful belief...that pain and shame come from the outside...and they don't.

When we're reactive, which is what we are when we are children, then all we can see are reactions...our experience as we age tells us differently...that we choose our actions, or we choose to react. If you base your choices on what response you desire, rather than on yourself, then you are living manipulatively...which is hidden from you from years of living this way. Respect wins over self-deceit. Respect is knowing you are whole and complete...without a word spoken or an action taken. Respect is knowing every single person on the planet is this same way...with the same limit to their control and same power in their choices.

Doesn't look much different from the outside...inside? Like a whole new world.

[color:"blue"] "I feel bad for them, want to help them, maybe even defend them. If it is someone close to me I would help them, shield them, defend them, fight their battle if they are not able or fight beside them if they are able." [/color]

What if your desire to do this comes from wanting to stop being kicked yourself? Not to stop someone else from kicking someone else? See, the kicked has equal power of the kicker...their own choices and journey. They have a payoff in repeated behavior...which we don't know...yet respecting their choice to be kicked is more difficult than running to their aid, isn't it?

This does not solve anything...this respect isn't a solution, it is a belief you can choose to have, which does not protect you from anything...there is no safety in it; it is fear-filled and feels selfish, horrific...and true. It contradicts image and action...takes earning love and turns it on its head...I had a violent reaction inside of me when contemplating this...taking a belief to that extent...visualizing a battered woman...and being human, I turned away from that image...and looked at God, instead.

And then I turned back to that image of a battered woman, and I said in my mind these seemingly harsh, horrible words:

I respect you...I respect your choices, your power, your journey. You are not broken. You are equal to me in every way.

And then...I had to swallow really hard and say those same words...to the battering man.

Does this mean don't step in if you're a cop, a family member, a friend? That isn't part of what I'm explaining...and my answer is shallow...it says, there are laws on human behavior here on earth which have natural consequences and logical ones. They come to pass unless well-meaning people get in the way.

In the abuser's and abused dance, both are victims of perspective...they believe they have no choice...that they are broken...defective. That pain comes into themselves from the outside...each controlling the other, causing each other, and being the cure of each other.

You brought up this kicker/kicked...your image. There's a message in it for you...and this was profound for me. I am here on MB with great gratitude, like a partial payback...and mostly here to get more through sharing.

I had to find out where I abused...and was abused. From the inside out. This stopped all betrayal...from myself and others.

Taking action is taking responsibility...and if you do that in your head where it is not yours...if you take others' responsibility, then you have no freedom and are trapped; you cannot be loved and valued by free choice...and you are. Those are the three realities...Freedom, Responsibility and Love.

None of those are possible with constant judgment...it is like taking a swig of battery acid each time you fling it on others...eats away everything, inside and out.

Come inside, Eagle...you're a warm, safe, whole and lovable human being...you cannot earn what you are already are...please stop telling yourself you're not enough unless you do right and be right.

When you can really get that in yourself, acceptance over judgment, embracing your fully human self, all of you, then you won't be able to inject respect into your life and all your relationships, you won't be able to be intimate with your wife, and you won't know you are fully loved, greatly loved...you will feel kicked by your own foot.

In order to choose to be around people who complement your attributes...you must first judge them. And judge yourself. Being around people and being connected to them are two different things. If we truly are all equal, then being human around humans is connecting...no judgment required. No tests, no earning...a whole lot of being...and trusting God.

How do you feel when I ask you about you? At the end of your last post, you said you do...and say...and then you shift into your wife...and immediately remember...as if I was judging you for not saying something, when I was asking if you did?

[color:"blue"] "I enjoy your company the most." [/color] So much honesty and vulnerability in that simple, gorgeous sentence, Eagle. Taste it. Stay here, inside you...centered and whole. Steep yourself in it. You said that from your heart, your belief...

LA

P.S. I didn't address my DJ question...because I have no clue what you meant by your response...I want to know your thoughts...whatever they are...your emotions and beliefs...whatever they are...no judgment.

Here's me quoting me:

"Do you fear being manipulated?"

"Yes as it makes me feel I am being tricked into something I wouldn't normally do."

Did you read my Owning All Your Villagers Thread?
[color:"blue"] No I haven't. [/color]

Okay, detour...seemingly...

"True, I don't like being wrong maybe fear it," Could you go a little more into that "maybe" fearing? What does being wrong about something represent to you?
[color:"blue"] I equate being wrong with failure, like taking a test, you pass or you fail. I fear failure. [/color]

"I am misunderstood a lot, doesn't bother me much, but does to some extent." Thank you for your honesty.

"I want to be judged well, it is improtant to me,"

Why is being judged well important to you?
[color:"blue"] Some days all a person has is their reputation, being judged well improves your reputation, being judged poorly is worse than not being judged at all as you will be percieved as being a bad person or a failure. [/color]

"It does upset me, so I look for the lesson in there and try to impprove and grow from the lesson. Maybe a defense mechanism to keep from being judged poorly or neing seen in a bad light." Which do you feel more fear from...being judged poorly or not being judged at all?
[color:"blue"] Judged poorly [/color]

To be open to a new way of living can be fear-filled. If you have lived in acute awareness of being wrong, doing wrong...then this might be really difficult to take in. I'm asking you to, anyway.
[color:"blue"] OK [/color]

I heard more beliefs in your response... "Humans make mistakes." Can I expand that belief? "Humans make mistakes; they can't be one."
[color:"blue"] Humans do make mistakes, some more severe than others. I also believe we were put on this earth by God, so he has a plan for all of us, we were created in his image, so a human cannot be a mistake, even when others percieve them as a mistake they are not because God has a plan a reason and a purpose for them. [/color]

What do you think?
[color:"blue"] Some people may percieve you as a mistake, but you really are not a mistake. [/color]

Does this seem like a reasonable amendment...a clarifying one?
[color:"blue"] Yes [/color]

All that I am saying will culminate in being about betrayal...how being betrayed, how you experience it, is largely determined by you. Seems like an unjust power to me. Truth remains.
[color:"blue"] OK, unjust power how? As in giving WW power to hurt me so deeply at times I'm not sure I will recover, or giving the feelings so much power that I am paralyzed by fear?[/color]

If you have lived your life carefully, watchful and attentive, concerned and diligently, to be wrong as little as possible, to do the most good, save the damsels and allow their influence; to do no harm, be good and judged well, then infidelity will be a breakdown inside of you, which your belief...that if you did all these things in this way, then your payoff will NOT be betrayal...will take you to an intensity and depth you had previously not imagined in any way.

[color:"blue"] True, the betrayl of adultry was devastating to me, it has consumed me and take up every minute of my life. [/color]

And by living this way, you have taught yourself to manipulate life itself for your ultimate protection. By your actions and intent to be safe, you become more vulnerable than you imagined possible as a human.
[color:"blue"] OK, but don't we all want to be safe? [/color]

I am not attacking you. Please consider that this way of life, of earning protection and love, requires a lot of manipulation, a lot of fine tuning your choices, deep commitment to improvement, bullet-proofing your self image and earning your own respect...has betrayed you. Adding to betrayal feels the same...just more intensely.
[color:"blue"] True [/color]

That "Wow" you felt, a tingle of excitement, a widening of your mind, when you read that thread, was you catching a glimpse of freedom...self free to be self...and if you can consider your perspective like going through a minefield...and this one to running through it joyfully...I think you can pursue that original excitement...before the fear rushes in, because it abhors freefall.

Tell me your payoff in judgment...that constant hum inside and outside of you...which is evaluative, assessing...look inside yourself for what you feel when you are judged well...and when you judge well. And when you are judged badly and judge badly (tricked).
[color:"blue"] Former good feelings, latter bad feelings [/color]

And I'm tying this into the fear of being tricked...not because it rhymes with kicked...though I like that, too...but because behind those two situations, there is an illusion of power, which is the same powerful belief...that pain and shame come from the outside...and they don't.

When we're reactive, which is what we are when we are children, then all we can see are reactions...our experience as we age tells us differently...that we choose our actions, or we choose to react. If you base your choices on what response you desire, rather than on yourself, then you are living manipulatively...which is hidden from you from years of living this way. Respect wins over self-deceit. Respect is knowing you are whole and complete...without a word spoken or an action taken. Respect is knowing every single person on the planet is this same way...with the same limit to their control and same power in their choices.

Doesn't look much different from the outside...inside? Like a whole new world.

"I feel bad for them, want to help them, maybe even defend them. If it is someone close to me I would help them, shield them, defend them, fight their battle if they are not able or fight beside them if they are able."

What if your desire to do this comes from wanting to stop being kicked yourself? Not to stop someone else from kicking someone else? See, the kicked has equal power of the kicker...their own choices and journey. They have a payoff in repeated behavior...which we don't know...yet respecting their choice to be kicked is more difficult than running to their aid, isn't it?
[color:"blue"] Sure if they actually chose to be kicked. If they were unaware and were kicked what then? [/color]

This does not solve anything...this respect isn't a solution, it is a belief you can choose to have, which does not protect you from anything...there is no safety in it; it is fear-filled and feels selfish, horrific...and true. It contradicts image and action...takes earning love and turns it on its head...I had a violent reaction inside of me when contemplating this...taking a belief to that extent...visualizing a battered woman...and being human, I turned away from that image...and looked at God, instead.

And then I turned back to that image of a battered woman, and I said in my mind these seemingly harsh, horrible words:

I respect you...I respect your choices, your power, your journey. You are not broken. You are equal to me in every way.

And then...I had to swallow really hard and say those same words...to the battering man.

Does this mean don't step in if you're a cop, a family member, a friend? That isn't part of what I'm explaining...and my answer is shallow...it says, there are laws on human behavior here on earth which have natural consequences and logical ones. They come to pass unless well-meaning people get in the way.
[color:"blue"] What laws are you talking about? Laws of natural selection? [/color]

In the abuser's and abused dance, both are victims of perspective...they believe they have no choice...that they are broken...defective. That pain comes into themselves from the outside...each controlling the other, causing each other, and being the cure of each other.

You brought up this kicker/kicked...your image. There's a message in it for you...and this was profound for me. I am here on MB with great gratitude, like a partial payback...and mostly here to get more through sharing.

I had to find out where I abused...and was abused. From the inside out. This stopped all betrayal...from myself and others.

Taking action is taking responsibility...and if you do that in your head where it is not yours...if you take others' responsibility, then you have no freedom and are trapped; you cannot be loved and valued by free choice...and you are. Those are the three realities...Freedom, Responsibility and Love.

None of those are possible with constant judgment...it is like taking a swig of battery acid each time you fling it on others...eats away everything, inside and out.

Come inside, Eagle...you're a warm, safe, whole and lovable human being...you cannot earn what you are already are...please stop telling yourself you're not enough unless you do right and be right.

When you can really get that in yourself, acceptance over judgment, embracing your fully human self, all of you, then you won't be able to inject respect into your life and all your relationships, you won't be able to be intimate with your wife, and you won't know you are fully loved, greatly loved...you will feel kicked by your own foot.

In order to choose to be around people who complement your attributes...you must first judge them. And judge yourself. Being around people and being connected to them are two different things. If we truly are all equal, then being human around humans is connecting...no judgment required. No tests, no earning...a whole lot of being...and trusting God.

How do you feel when I ask you about you? At the end of your last post, you said you do...and say...and then you shift into your wife...and immediately remember...as if I was judging you for not saying something, when I was asking if you did?

"I enjoy your company the most." So much honesty and vulnerability in that simple, gorgeous sentence, Eagle. Taste it. Stay here, inside you...centered and whole. Steep yourself in it. You said that from your heart, your belief...

LA

P.S. I didn't address my DJ question...because I have no clue what you meant by your response...I want to know your thoughts...whatever they are...your emotions and beliefs...whatever they are...no judgment.

"So I do not help unless requested. So far she has not asked for my help, she is holding everything in." This is a slight DJ...she may not be sharing with you, which is withholding...not necessarily holding it in...there's a difference, goes to intent. It appears that she is more withholding her thoughts and feelings, but holding her emotions in, when the pressure get to be too much and they escape it is not pretty.
[color:"blue"]It seems or feels like she is withholding her thoughts and feelings as well as anything she may feel will cause me to become upset. I can say this because it is a habit or trait her mother has and used with her father. Her mother decided what her father knew and didn't know or I guess a better way to put it is what her father was told and not told. This used to be a problem for WW and she discussed it with me early in our marriage. It appears to me she is now doing the same thing. Sorry if this appears to be a DJ, but I don't know how else to put it. [/color]


"So I move forward alone, always with the hope she will want to catch up and walk with me." Big DJ...we are all together, one place, no linear thinking, one dimensionally living...that is you putting that on others. Know the difference between what she is not doing/believing that you want her to, and who she is being and choosing to do...bigger difference than you can imagine...which helps you. I'm not sure I understand this.
[color:"blue"] I do hold out hope because I choose to want her in my life and to walk forward with me, not behind or in front of but at my side and me at her side together as equals. I feel she is undecided about what she wants to do. As a result there are times, more now than ever, that I feel like I am walking alone. I want her company on this journey, I just don't know how to tell her this. [/color]

Bump for LA

Good morning, Eagle...

Thank you for the bump.

I'm going backwards this morning...

"I want her company on this journey, I just don't know how to tell her this."

This is what I heard in that your gorgeous statement of her company being what you most wanted. Hold this knowledge to you--that this is your desires, where your choice to love is, and look at the dance you both do, with DJs, as what tangles this purity into a lot of strife.

Fear often wrecks our intent, Eagle. Fear of her not being with you, though she is, will bury that desire in you...and choke it with other fears...of being tricked, not judged well, rejected. Fear prevails in a reactive life...comes first with automatic...assumptions, mindreading, judgments and past-dwelling because these are distancing, seem protective...and they aren't. They are tricking yourself into feeling safe when you cannot be safe.

Your own fear can trick you into doing what you would otherwise not do, not say, not be...because fear gets you to choose a damaging perspective. The irony here, is that fear does all of this from the belief that you won't survive love.

DJs are a dance...you can't continue them alone. Your description of your wife's FOO bears this out. There were two parts to your MIL's DJs...her doing them (from fear) and your FIL doing them from fear. DJs come from fear, not love. The beautiful part is when one person stops doing the dance, the steps change and DJ's are exposed, looked at, and finally, discarded.

Just takes one.

Indecision, not knowing what you want, comes from fear. I've seen you here, finding your way, losing it again, when fear rises above whatever level you have...signals are when your anger, indignation, jumps up fast, high. When I've read your posts, I've seen you face your anger and not your fear.

Fear is not a weakness, something bad or wrong in us. Without fear, we could not define love, its existence, shape and form. Fear is not strength, either. Fear is. Love is.

Judgment comes from fear...our fear of not knowing. So does indecision, defense, offense, manipulation, cruelty...distancing, withholding, using all these tools to emotionally frisk others for their truth...which is what we fear most.

Open and honest begins in you, for you. Then you will be able to ask and not DJ...say, "I was remembering, early in our marriage, when you shared with me..." See how this isn't asking, but sharing your thoughts with her? No manipulation. Ownership. "I love your company." "I love your presence." "I celebrate you."

Can't get to those when you have other reactive judgments in your way, protecting you into oblivion. The only strategy required in this life is the one to choose our perspective. Any other is fear in charge. Love shows choice; fear is revealed in having any other strategy.

My fear was revealed in my convoluted sentence about abuse...I feared others would read what I wrote as free license to batter and abuse. I have backed away from writing about abuse many times here...others are more knowledgeable, have studied, have degrees and work with abuse victims daily. Who am I to say, "I respect your choices"? My fear said, "Say something so they know you don't condone abusers...they will take your words to an extreme, distort them and hurt you with them." Eagle, not you, but those proverbial others in my head...no one specific. I don't even know what I meant...except that the laws we live under have consequences...charged with assault, battery, domestic violence, etc. My fear said I would be seen as advocating no one step in...so I lost my truth in fear.

Please consider this when you don't understand something I write...odds are, it's me, not you.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My truth.

Which brings me to choosing to be kicked...emotional and verbal abuse has this element...I know this. I lived it. Consider the "If they were unaware and were kicked what then?" If they were unaware, then they were kicked, they would then be aware, wouldn't they? If their response to be kicked was to be kicked again, then would that be their choice?

I don't do well at all in generalizations...the they's and the others...I know first hand what it is to be kicked and to kick. I know that until I became aware that we are all equally whole and complete, that being kicked was what I deserved...was necessary to make me a less defective person...my belief in earning life, love, punishment. The earning belief in us isn't limited. Beliefs aren't. They don't have double standards...okay to earn love but not punishment. If we believe we earn our lives, we will believe we earn everything a part of our life.

Very subtle.

And that earning belief cannot exist without all the measuring instruments to judge results, base our actions on response, assess and adjust...making our lives into a strategy session instead of a life being lived.

And if we base our lives on feelings...good and bad...then we are living from the result of our beliefs, bypassing human truth that we live from our beliefs.

If I choose my actions based on the probability of someone else's reaction...which is what the Golden Rule can be taken as, then I am betraying myself with every word and action. I will have bad feelings...you can short cut that and say choosing my perspective, my choice of action from my own code is to protect myself from bad feelings. I see it as choosing to have pure intent, to not self betray, which won't give me bad feelings. I can still feel sadness, sorrow, or not feel euphoric from my choices...those are information from my desires and expectations...not from my code. Knowing I live respectful of everyone's choice...not being the cause, control or cure (impossible) for others, gives me great feelings...because I am choosing to live an authentic life, not a safe one.

I'll take what comes, Eagle, and know my human limits and power.

As long as you choose to believe your wife is causing you great pain, sorrow, frustration, utter negation...then that is how you will experience this life...power over there instead of recognizing it is inside of you. Your belief. If you choose to see your wife as separate, equal, whole, complete...her choices are hers and you have no power over her, then you will not feel this double betrayal. You can't. Because you choose to believe something different. You choose to respect what is hers is hers and what is yours is yours.

Your truth is not unspeakable...your truth is beautiful...until you know this thoroughly, with total acceptance...you are not defective...you do not have to earn anything...your very being is magnificent...then you will not speak your truth from fear. You will feel paralyzed by fear when you live in strategy and refuse to be in life.

You can do this, Eagle. You can choose a new perspective...embrace your fear, hold it, reassure it, and live with it...and live fully from love...loving your own beauty...and speak your truth. With each utterance, no matter how small, you teach your self, Self matters. Self is worth sharing, knowing and being known.

Lay down your judgment for a day...let each desire to pick it up teach you where it is coming from...know your strength in being, not doing.

Changing your beliefs changes everything. Not in your control...never was...find the blessing in that freedom, your real responsibility and where it ends, and choose Love as your reality.

LA

LA,

Very true fear does paralyze. I no longer live in fear. I am no longer paralyzed.

I am being!

Being human...

Awesome, Eagle.

You changed your sigline!

Did you find your payoff in being paralyzed by fear? Just so you know what the lure was?

LA

Yup, no longer paralyzed, no longer afraid.

Payoff was I need to move forward, be me, unencumbered by the whole mess. I need to be sure I am happy and my kids are happy.

That would be the payoff for not being paralyzed from fear...

I am asking what your payoff WAS in allowing yourself, previously, to be paralyzed with fear.

There was a payoff...

Being isn't moving forward...doesn't have a goal of making sure you are happy...I'm concerned here...being is being.

"Whole mess" really gets my triggers going...hey, I'm feeling fear!

If you wanna share, I'm here. Does anyone else see the humor in, "I'm afraid to talk about fear" statement?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA,

There was no payoff for being paralyzed by fear, just more fear and the continuation problems, her resentment grew.

I am being me, doing what I want to do, which is moving on and moving forward. I have put everything on hold due to fear. I ahve made a decision to do what is good for me and for my kids, I'm now following through with plans a promises made, keeping promises I made to my kids and myself. Putting pool in backyard, fixing my car (toy, hobby, race car), going to finish my degree in the fall, etc....

I realize I cannot control anything but me, so I am doing me things and kid things. M things will have to come as they are, it will either work or not, God's will. My will is to live life a good as possible, I work too hard to be paralyzed by fear of WW leaving. I will have fun, I will live my life as I see fit, whether she is here or not. I deserve better. I deserve to have love in my life and I will, I deserve to have love with no regrets or resentment, I don't have that now, but I will eventually one way or the other.
It may be as I desire right now or it may be a desire I don't know I have right now. I will continue to be a glass is half full kind of guy and looking forward to completely filling it, as opposed to having a glass that is cracked and leaking all the time.

I have no fear of discussing fear. I ahve been afraid for too long, don't like what it has done to me. So now I will be me, accept responsibility for my actions, the chips will fall where ever they fall. If it is my duty to pick them up I will, if not they can lay where they fell, not my issue then.

I am ramping up the me machine, I ahve taken off the cover, it was very dusty, but I am dusting it off, cleaning it up. I am going to ride it like I stole it!

I have given myself permission to be free, do for me, no more sacrifice for anyone but kids, and this I will do willingly and out of love for them. No strings attached, they are my legacy.

Go for it, Eagle. Kudos!

I am applauding you getting to the freedom of owning what is yours, Eagle...have no doubt.

I am thrilled for your commitment to no longer sacrifice, create resentment in yourself...for knowing to your bones that you are loved, without an action taken or a word spoken.

You did have a payoff in fear paralysis...important to find it and know it...it is sneaky. When I was paralyzed by fear, I found my payoff--blamelessness. I don't even know if that's a word...it was for me. I longed so desperately in my life to be blameless...to not harm and therefore, not be punished back...to not be bad. My fear was paralyzing, but it was absolving, also. Not real, either way, in retrospect...just a place to be frozen, when weighted down by what wasn't mine, not owning what was, and can't move means can't be blamed stymied me.

We don't do anything without a payoff, Eagle...otherwise, we don't do it. Real or imagined payoff...only has to make sense to us. Knowing that payoff is important for staying honest with ourselves...staying true...otherwise, paralysis creeps back in when the payoff in our change seems less than the payoff in fearing.

That's why habits are hard to break...we secretly compare the payoff. By really getting what our payoff was...and that it wasn't real...helps us from slipping back into old habits...and we have many...including habitual mindset, perspective, perception...as well as talking with our hands.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome to your beautiful being, Eagle. May you being generous with your own humanity be contagious...what we do for ourselves, we do for others.

LA

Payoff of fear, WW home, no recovery, more fear.

Payoff hoped for, WW home, beautiful recovery, no fear.

Payoff never came to light, so there is no reason to continue fear, I ahve realized greatest fear. WW home ne recovery,fear building on fear. So there is nothing left to fear, been there done that.

Now I am me being me, who I am, take it or leave it.

Payoff of fear...being abandoned. WW comes home...at first, no abandonment...realizing wife can be home and you can fear abandonment, anyway. Not all the way home.

The payoff of fear of abandonment is usually protection from abandonment...usually what we fear is an act of protection...doesn't mean it works...which adds to the pain when we are abandoned...because we were looking for and aware of the possibility...and it happened.

When you are being you...whole and complete...recognizing your human limits and power, then your fear lessens because abandonment no longer signifies being erased...wiped out...when we are enmeshed, our partner's leaving represents a chunk of us leaving...we're in there...they go, we go...which is what self fears most...

When we reclaim ourselves entirely, self knows we exist, are significant and cannot be abandoned. No payoff in that fear...no protection...we can be left...we cannot be abandoned.

I think you're there, Eagle. Knowing solidly what beliefs you changed helps to not self-deceive...

Staying present for self has no fear in it. Within your power and control. You know it's your choice. That matters. You mattering to you is really important.

Sounds like you are embracing that fully.

What makes me suspicious is the take it or leave it...could just be a phrase that pops readily into your mind...or it could be a sign you are self-protecting from abandoning first...

When you really get your whole humanity...then you will see others as fully human for the first time...normal emotions are swelling compassion, relief, freedom, joy and acceptance. You will no longer see your wife as doing to you...you see her separate, equal and lovable as you are lovable...without an action taken or a word spoken.

Judgment is a lot to let go...be free of...it is a prison of protection...and it protects nothing and no one.

You can't fail any question I ask...consider if fear also feels like protection in raising your awareness, focus and alerted state to danger...that can feel comforting without changing the level of danger at all...

LA

LA,

Take it or leave it readily pops for me. It's like here I am take me how I am or leave me alone. I am who I am and that is how it is.

This is how I see things. I am improving for me, if someone likes that great if not well their loss not mine as I am continuing on my journey to a better me. Anyone can come along for the ride the more the merrier, anyone can get off anytime they please, their call not mine. I will wish them well and be grateful for the time we traveled together and maybe see them again when our paths cross.

Eagle,

Man, I have not been here in a while but it seems that you have found yourself. CONGRATULATIONS! I will keep you in my prayers.

I too have been able to find myself. I too am doing things just for me. Although my sitch is so completely different, the guidelines for survival are similar. I guess I need to run and put a quick update on my thread.

God Bless and Good Luck

-Chris

I've been thinking how to communicate my view of take me or leave me...

Takes me awhile to get to where the rub is...so thank you for your patience.

When we do this, we are still judging, in a way...because it involves being taken (embraced) or left (rejected)...still going through another's eyes. The state of being, knowing you are, and extending that throughout your perception of others...they are being, also, removes this judgment.

There's no motion in being...can't be taken or left...can it?

What is, just is, has incredible power. Staying aware of others' reactions to you would be a signal of denial of self...you aren't taking or leaving self...are you?

You are not fodder for judgment...unless you judge. Would you say that was a balanced truth?

Fine tuning after really getting your incredible design and wholeness isn't bashing...I am asking you to perceive differently...and let go entirely of being perceived.

Your own code is internal...what you choose from and how you assess your choices...inside, not outside. And to presume someone else is taking or leaving you, is to negate that.

In your corner,

LA

I look at it this way.

Here I am all of me. When you are introduced to someone usually you know if you want to hang out with them or not.
All I'm saying is this is me take it or leave it, no skin off my nose. More often than not we don't even know this is happening. I do not expect to get along with everyone and do not expect everyone to get along with me. Just a statement, no hidden meaning.

How about an update from your life, Eagle?

Enquiring minds want to know... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Well,

Things seem to be going smooth, NO A, R, M talk, no talk about MB, not much talk at all. So we are just drifting along. She is in IC, don't know anything about it except she says she had a good session. No discussion about it. Have progressed with Jennifer to every 2 weeks as opposed to every week.

No LBs or DJs that I'm aware of, WW hasn't said anything about anything. We are going to POJA bills this weekend as well as having a pool put in the yard. Whenever I ask for her thoughts or opinion about how she wants to proceed with the pool I get "whatever you want, however you want to do it is fine with me." to include taking out a second to help pay for pool (cover 1/2, I will pay other half).

SF is sporadic and more like a chore for her than something to help re-connect and re-create affection.

Affection is still more driven by me than her. Occaisionally she will reach out and hold my hand, give a peck on the cheek.

Conversation is her #1 EN, but she won't talk. More like reports. Although last few days she is starting to talk some.

Still don't feel safe. She is not transparent. She does call to let me know when she goes places though.

Still feel the need to keep checking up and verify things.

Still waiting for her to committ to MB and rebuilding M. If she does great, if not great, works either way for me.

I guess still in limbo land, waiting for her to do or say something. The kids and I are doing things, moving on, she participates when she feels like it, which is most of the time. So this is a good thing.

I would love for us to become FBH & FWW, but according to Jennifer she has to want it. Sooooo I continue to move forward with my life and the kids. It's what we do best, live our lives the best we can with or without her participation. Our choice.