SC,

Someone reposted an old post from previous incarnations of this site. It can be found in the read only portions of this site. I thought you might find it interesting in light of our discussions about the "fog". It is a different perspective, but it my be useful to you. Just click on the bookmark. The Fog

The point is that perceptions can change and when they do surprisingly good AND bad things can happen.

Hope you find it of interest.

God Bless,

JL

Hey gang,

Haven't posted in awhile. I've been super busy at work and with the kids during the week, and trying to spend as much time as possible with my H during the weekends. In fact, I only have a minute or two to check in.

Things are actually going pretty well right now. Mr. Cookie and I had a very nice weekend together and with the kids. Now that everything is finally out in the open, and we've more-or-less recovered form the initial shock of it all, maybe we can start the healing process in earnest. JL- you may be absolutely right about him being a hero in the making. I know we're not out of the woods yet. Not by a long shot. But for the first time in a long time, I feel that we actually have a chance. Our marriage counselor is very good. But it was all your support -- and kicks in the pants -- that helped keep me on track in between sessions, and also helped me to more closely examine all my thoughts and feelings.

Keep it coming. Maybe the next time I post, I'll be brave enough to put it in the "Recovering" section. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

-SC

Hi SC, nice to see your update. i've been thinking about you both. don't feel you have to move to the recovery section, i continue to post here even though i believe we are in recovery too. i "know" the people here more and they know me, if you know what i mean.

i suppose some posters look at all the forums, i'm not sure, i just know i personally stick to this one.

i am so very glad you guys are working together!!

SC,

GQ is a good place for right now. I hope you and Mr. C are doing well. It is hard work, but you have no idea how much this can be turned around as your perspective on things changes.

God Bless,

JL

JL, you wrote...


Okay... my surfboard must have taken a wrong turn on the world wide web. I thought this was the Marriage Builders Forum -- not the Psychic Network Forum!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You guys freak me out sometimes! Just when I thought I was safe, our MC is indeed "getting to that". He's been poking and prodding me ever-so-gently up until now. Then yesterday, he moved in for the kill. I don't like it one bit. In fact, I felt like I'd been hit by a train all day. (I don't want to get into detials right now -- feeling a little too fragile.)

Anyway, I just re-read my last post. I guess I was niave thinking we were done digging. Did I really think I was going to slide through this process without some personal excavating? Believe it or not -- I did. I know it'll be a good thing in the long run. At least I hope so. But right now -- if you'll pardon the expression -- it sucks!

Anyone remeber what it was like for you at about this point in the process?

--SC

Hi Ms. Cookie...

I have not posted here before and have only had time to skim your thread....but it sounds from your last post that you are on the right track...or at least I remember feeling as you described--that emotional roller-coaster.

For me the first up and down went something like this:

At first I had assumed just being honest and supporting my BH through his pain was all I needed to really do, since I was not in an A when I confessed. I was on a sort of high--like the worst of this (the initial shock) is behind us--we can do this! I was thinking, we just need to help heal his pain, and analyze our M—what went wrong in the M.

But then it was like the reality of the situation began to occur to me. By reality I mean—it occurred to me that it wasn’t something wrong with the M- but something wrong with ME and they way I handled my own unhappiness.

OUCH!

This led to uncomfortable questions like: Why would I deal with my own unhappiness in such a destructive way (an A)—escaping, self degrading? Why did I compromise my own integrity like that? why would I let myself treat MYSELF in this way (let alone family and husband)? WHAT THE F*** was I thinking!!???

This in turn led to an analysis stemming back to the formation of my personality /coping skills….etc. (And believe me I thought I had myself ALL figured out before this! Heh!) But stuff I hadn’t noticed or considered about myself, started popping up. It was awful—I was discovering another invisible side of myself….and not too pretty-a-one either!!

IMHO, asking these types of questions is one of the first steps in recovery.... (As opposed to the misplaced question-response like why did I have the A...because I was unhappily married, because HE was ignoring me, because HE was mean, etc.)

Marital recovery hinges on personal recovery...welcome to the roller-coaster...fasten your belt and hang on...you're goin' in!!

SC, i love the way your write!!!

yes you were naive, a lot of personal digging is required, for true recovery anyway.

Ahuman couldn't of said it better:

the good news is... as much as i felt like you probably did when i first started... it's going to be OK!!!

Ahuman,

Thank you so much. Yes, the beginning of that self analysis is exactly where I am. The trouble is, I feel totally overwhelmed by it. Did you work with a marriage counselor? A personal counselor? Do you remember if there were any particular books or exercises that were helful to you? About how long did it take you to get some clarity and start making changes? Can you really learn to change half-way through your life?

It may sound crazy, but I'm really terrified right now. It's not like I had a horrible childhood or anything. How could I possibly be this messed up? I feel like such a looser. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

-Sc

Hi again SC, i guess with your joking i didn't really get that you are upset.

listen, you don't have to view yourself as "this messed up".

you are NOT a looser!!!

yes, you have made some poor choices and then it sounds like
you just kept letting life move on, i.e. career building, kids, ... and more poor choices thru-out.

and that didn't get you anywhere good, right?

so time for a new approach... time to slow down and really think your life thru.

for me, it seemed like i was never making choices, my life was just happening.

now, i conciously choose my part in my life.

no, we cannot control every part of our lives. but there is so much we can control. which is very good news.

you were not happy before, right?

that's just the thing, you are making the choice right now to build a happier life for yourself.

it truely is possible. anything's possible

you are not a looser, you are a couragous woman, willing to take a good look at herself and live life to it's fullest.

i can relate to the scary feelings. i am in IC (we are not in MC) i skip a week here and there when i need a break.

I must admit, i think i have learned and grown more from posting here than from IC though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

so keep looking in the mirror and keep digging, but be kind to yourself too!!!

it really is going to be OK.

FL,
I sure hope you're right. Don't feel badly about missing that I was upset. I was fine when I started writing... then I just fell apart. Thanks again for your support.
--SC

"I thought this was the Marriage Builders Forum -- not the Psychic Network Forum!!!! You guys freak me out sometimes!"
Affairs are not as "special" as the people in them seem to think (especially at the time they are involved in them).
Almost always, again and again, they are the same thing, only with slightly different circumstances.
Usually, reading someone's first couple of posts is enough to know exactly waht's going on.
Why? Because it is almost always, very, very, very typical.

Chris,
Okay smartiepants. Then save me some trouble and tell me what the heck is wrong with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
--SC

Sorry SC, not going to get around it that easily. I could go on and on about typical A behavior by BS and WS and you would acknowledge and agree, you would have your cookie cutter answer (pun intended) and run with that...but I'm not going to do it.

You gotta read yourself, see what other people are going through.

I've often wondered how a WS can read through the pain of a BS and how they feel about it...or how, after coming through the other side, becoming a FWS, how they read through a WS's post...

What is 'wrong' with you? Nothing! Only your choices...can you weed out the good choices from bad choices?

i don't think there are any cliffnotes to be found!!!

if you do one, send me a copy too.

You're human <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Here's a "tip" from a woman in her late 50's (ok, it's me I confess) ...

learn to honor your feelings without making them so important that you abandon other aspects of yourself ... .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

that will be 5 cents please!

Lucy---Pepperband, no wonder they are never in the room at the same time...

Pepper,

Some day you and I are going to have to meet. You just have a wonderful way of saying things and looking at things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SC,

Pay attention to that woman, PEP. She is a piece of work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You know I was thinking about your situation to day and an image came to mind that I thought I would share. It may not be accurate, but somehow in my mind it seemed to fit. I see this young woman in a dark mine. Digging and shoveling with a spade. Once she thought she saw light, but it was an illusion created by the phosphors in the minerals (your OM). So she is back to digging, but a guy has joined her with a big mining machine (your counselor) and the digging is really starting to go now. It is tough to keep up, but somehow you do.

Then I have this image of you finally breaking through. At first a sliver of light, then more is revealed and there is blue sky, and then more and one sees trees, and then finally you are though and you are in a beautiful valley and someone is waiting for you. You sort of recognize him, but he seems to be different, there are more facets to him than you recall seeing before.

I think you are still in that mine SC, but your counselor has commenced digging and with his help you ARE going to break through alot of barriers. Here is something else you won't realize for awhile. As you dig inward with your counselor there are going to be times when you don't feel very good about yourself. Times when you are not sure anyone would see the good in you. Yet, there is one man that I am sure sees more good in you than you realize just yet. That is why he is married to you, that is why he is hanging around all through this. He sees what you cannot yet, but you will. When you finally come to realize this you are going to see your H in a totally different light. Not perfect, very human, many faults, but many strengths and he has a vision of you that is more accurate and good than you realize just now. Hang with him and let him help you, and I am pretty sure you will be amazed.

I might be dead wrong, but I have a feeling I am not THAT wrong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there and God Bless,

JL

PS: Just remember NO bank holidays. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ms. Cookie,

My general answer to your questions is: ALL of my answers really were in ME...books or counselors may be tools, but often, for me, I was looking into these things for THE ANSWER...and I think it can be misleading.



No, not since I REALLY started to recover. Actually, when I ended my A (in 2002), I signed up to see an IC at the same time--terrible mistake for lots of reasons. But mostly because I was using the IC as a crutch--expecting the IC to give me the answers--guide me. Incidentally, one of the answers was "you don't have to tell your H about your A." I know, I know and I PAID for this advice....and ultimately paid the price (and my H lots of unneeded suffering).

Ultimately, though, even with a good counselor, I think only YOU can really understand why you made your choices and what you want to change about your own life.

You seem like an intelligent woman--Identify your principles, use your brain and listen to your heart--i bet that YOU have the answer to your own issues!



My motto is: anything that promotes physical health is going to enable better mental health....so be your own sargent when it comes to taking care of your body.

Sleep, water, good food and exercise. (Maslow had a point!)

I was doing a lot of yoga and swimming and running, especially at the time...this helped me maintain a mental focus. It also helped that I had quit my high-pressure job...try to minimize all demans outside your family and health as much as possible...its easy to get sidetracked so the less things you are involved in outside of your personal and mental health the better.



Clarity comes with HONESTY--the raw kind. Honesty really started to come for me, when I learned to put down my weapons. I started learning to be brutally honest with myself (ouchety! ouch! ouch!)...recognized my defenses, such as "arguing for" my behavior, being a martyr and blaming others for present situation)...and stop using them in order to see myself in a new light.

One thing that was a breakthrough for me was ACCEPTING FULL responsibility for the state of my life. I even wrote myself a little note so that I could remember each morning when I woke up: "I am where I am because I put myself here." (don't cha just HATE that!!)

Changes came after clarity.

Weird stuff started to happen. Memories of my past would float up. I took long hard looks in the mirror, even CHOPPED off all of my hair one day. (Hint: I am NOT a hairdresser). To explain, this actually stemmed from one of my "issues". I had a tendency to accept or "passively" seek attention from men, partly because I had a guilt thing going about rejecting attention / drawing lines and partly to fulfill an insecurity. I have thick blond wavey hair and it was kind of a "trademark" feature. I wanted to express my change inside that I DIDN'T need others to define who I am by my appearance. Plus, I wanted to mark a change in my life. It FELT SOOOO DAMN GOOD to cut that hair!

If you can do something external to mark a change it may help.

I don't mean to imply that I totally changed over night, it is a fight to retrain old habits but YOU CAN DO IT, if you own it...that is if you DO it (as opposed to counsel about it, talk about it, just think about it, read about it.)



Does this mean it's all over for me at 60?!!! Nope, you can't change half way through your life, if you don't want to. But the way I see it, if I can't change, then I can't learn. If I am not learnin', then I might as well pack up this body and call it quits on life--what's the merit in living if it isn't to grow!

Ultimately, I think that the power of the human mind is AMAZING when equiped with tools of HONESTY and SELF-LOVE...(and I mean REAL self-love not the narcissitic stuff they teach us in commercials and pop-culture).


P.S. There was a book was a good tool for me--don't laugh but it was the 7 habits of highly effective people.

Do you have the book? There was something in the first half that hit me--about my STANDARDS. What are your principles--define them and live from THEM not from external circumstances or reactions to relationships/work/etc. Also, imagining the day I die....what will you have wanted out of your life? Start there, maybe.

Shesh. I have written an e-book here...hope there is something that you find helpful. Good luck!...and remember FASTEN YOUR SEATBELT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi everyone,

I don't know if this is even appropriate for this forum, but my husband's out of town tonight and I'm feeling pretty low and... I dunno... maybe even a little frantic... so here goes...

Here's the big can of night crawlers that came spilling out during our last MC session. It's a pretty typical tale. Childhood crap. My dad owned a small business and worked all the time. ALL THE TIME. My mom basically raised us. "Us" = me and my brother, two years older. We lived in the country. No real playmates that I remember when we were little. My brother spent the first 8 or 9 year of my life terrorizing me. Typical big brother stuff. Name calling, practical jokes, etc. Whenever I complained to my mother (who later told me that she had read that "overbearing mothers create gay sons") she would say, "just ignore him and he'll leave you alone."

Well, he didn't "leave me alone". He spent the next couple of years sexually molesting me. It ended when my mother "caught us." I remeber certain parts of that day pretty clearly. Other parts are a little blurry. She separated us... talked to him first... then took me for a walk to "talk". I remember she was shaking and smoking like a fiend. She was obviously horrified. I don't remember much about the "conversation" except that she asked me stuff like, how long had it been going on, how often, etc. Then she said, "He said you liked it, did you?"

That was pretty much the end of it, except that for the next several months, every time "we kids" were alone in the house together, my mom would come home and ask me, "Did he bother you?" "Bother you" -- that's how she would say it. It actually did happen a few more times, but I sure as sh-- wasn't going to tell HER that!

Anyway, that's probably how I learned to be a champion compartmentalizer (think that's in the dictionary?). From then on, my life was all about school and as many extracirricular activites as I could cram in. You name it, I did it. Class president, cheerleading, drama club, math league, field hockey. And I was a "know-it-all, perfectionist, always right" royal pain in the butt. But I was somebody. And my teachers loved me. (A few years ago I learned that one of my junior high school teachers even named his daughter after me!).

Fast forward several years. College education (with honors, of course). Married. Two awsome kids. Nice house. Very successful career. And if you ask anyone who knows me, they'd tell you I'm one of the most confident, balanced, together people they know. But close, intimate relationships? Hmmmm.

And here's the real kicker: I feel like such a pathetic loser even whining about all this stuff. I mean, my parents are good people. In most ways, they were very loving and supoprtive. Made a lot of sacrifices for me. They did their best. Even when it comes to the molestation, I know my mom didn't mean to hurt me. I'm sure she didn't know WHAT to do -- this was back before the time when things like incest and sexual abuse were "talked about". There are a lot of people out there who've been through a lot worse. I really thought I had made my peace with all this stuff. But when it came up in the MC session, it was REALLY HARD for me to even say the words out loud. And I was bawling like a baby. And I'm crying now. And that just makes me mad. I mean, this was 30 years ago. Ancient history. Why does it still make me so upset??

I'm sick of going around and around in circles in my mind about all this. On the other hand, it's not like it's a huge mystery either. I was violated, and the people who were supposed to protect me, didn't. So I don't give anyone else the chance to do that to me. But I don't know what to DO with this information.

I don't know. I hate this. It's too hard.

Anyway, like I said in the beginning, I'm not even sure all this personal stuff is appropriate here. But you all have been so good about letting me vent in the past. And it always feels good to write....

--SC

SC, you are not the only one around here with a similar story. It is not inappropriate, please vent or post away. {{SC}}