Bill Parcells (NFL coach of the Dallas Cowboys) had a famous saying when describing his faltering team after having lost yet another game....."You are what you are". I describe an actively Wayward Spouse as a Wayward Cheater...do you all think that I am being to "disrespectful" when saying this? I am of the Bill Parcells mind set...."you are what you are".....Do I need to re-think this approach and is it too harmful to BS readimy my views who are trying to win back their marriage.

Please weigh in.

Thanks

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What is disrespectful is the act of cheating. The words to describe the act are simply the truth.

BadSpeak TruthTalk for sure.

I wish I could say Lem what makes a person make the awful decision to become a ws...it could be dopamine in the brain...it could be boredom...it could be thaqt their character breaks down.

but deep down you make a choice to either cheat or not.

and that is your character showing.

I am leaning now to "you are what you are"...and that many of us, bs out here, either were snowed by our sig others, or we chose to wear blinders and that the signs and signals from our ws were right there under our eyes all along. I know I fall into the "latter" category.

LM -

Well, having gone through this for 3 years, I completely agree. It took me a long time to realize that my WH is what he is. Most of the problem was me. His actions (not his words) showed me very early in this.

Thanks to this site, I have been able to accept it, and gone on without him. Strangely, I'm not too sad or angry. After all he is what he is.

opps, nevermind i read that wrong, i thought you were afraid of offending a FWS. my mistake!

I've certainly done my share of WS bashing over the years!
The proof is in my old thread....uggh, not easy to read after 3 years!!

But what I've come to believe is that it does not help in the long run. Although it can be a temporary release of anger and pain, it does more damage in the long run.

Whatever the reason for the disrespectful behavior of WS's, it is ultimatley their own souls that they are disrespecting. I think they all come to see that sooner or later even though it may not be obvious to us. Most have a tough time coming to terms with what they've done.....
and like most addicts who struggle with their afflictions we should try to keep "compassion" in mind.

Ah, "compassion", not an easy thing under these circumstances...I understand that completely, our children are in pain, we struggle to take care of them, our futures are uncertain....
but we loved these WS at one time and we believed in that love to the limits of our being or else we would not be here? We would not feel the enormous pain and despair that brings us here.....

So although they are actively disrespecting that love, should we as BS's do the same, disrespect that "once upon a time love", so pure, so good, so believable? Does it help the situation? Are you here to kill that love once and for all? Or are you here to try to find a way to hold onto it? And if that turns out to be unattainable for ourselves how can we best help our fellow BS....

Compassion is good for OUR souls, OUR healing, OUR recovery!

And when these WS begin to struggle with the enormity of their betrayals, where can they go to find help, encouragement and safety?

Will they come to a place where they are called "scumbag losers"? Probably not. But isn't that what we want, that they will come here and learn what we know about Infidelity and Healing and Recovery? WE want so much for them to believe what we believe, learn what we have learned, remember what we remember....
Certainly they should know the depths of the pain they have inflicted on their families.....but not this way. It will only serve to push them further into the far reaches of their addictions....

If we don't believe that they can reclaim their integrity how can we expect them to believe it?

Some may never come back, lost forever in their own pain and confusion...but what if....what if....they take that most difficult first step toward home....should we greet them with namecalling?.....will that recover any of the marriages here?.....Isn't that what we are here for? Ultimately, isn't that what we are here for. Recovery, for ourselves....and maybe, just maybe, for the WS as well.

Wayward Cheater.... is that a double negative? Is it disrespectful? Not if it is accurate. W/b viewed as disrespectful but then again, the WS calls a lot of things names w/o them being valid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

IMHO, your views balance out their need to 'save their M'. In most cases, we should not be wanting to save or bring back a WS to our homes and lives. That includes back to our M's. Most of us would have never married such a character...... so to see the metaphorsis of a spouse into a WS is quite hurtful.

This is a also a free posting board..... your posts are freely given and quite valuable.

So how much does my post weigh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Now, remember u r responding to a 'lady'. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

What you could ask is something like: Are my posts sometimes a bit bitter around the edges? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My response: Shouldn't it be? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Aloha,
L.

lemonman,

I find you contributions to be like a cold crisp splash of water in the face. A well-needed dose of reality.

I need to see my WH for who he is now, not who he used to be (or who I believed him to be) and not for who I think he has the potential to be.

This makes the step to Plan B after a good Plan A possible. And after a time has passed and I am ready, it will also make a D less painful.

Lemon ~ I'm very uncomfortable with the tone on this board lately. It's something I've been pondering for a couple of weeks. I do think that it is likely harming more BSes and maybe their marrriages than helping. Do you contribute to it? I don't know.

However...yours is an uncomplicated way of saying to people what I have said on these boards many times.

It's very hard for many BSes to learn to accept the WS as he/she IS versus the spouse that they want him/her to be.

I think Parcells is wrong. It's no wonder that the Cowboys suck.

A rock is what it is. Any soulless animal, vegetable or mineral is what it is because it cannot choose otherwise.

I think a much more accurate version would be:

"You are what you choose to be."

yankee DAWG!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> We have a saying down here: "it is what it is..."

Lemon:

I feel that a person's viewpoint is a function of his/her experiences..

So I don't feel like it's OK for me to bash you for your belief system. On the other hand, I don't think it's OK for you to bash me for mine. I think we all need to be OPEN to others' viewpoints, appreciating that how we see things is our reality...

Maybe what you are saying is true..

If you have read any of the BUYER/RENTER thread, I think my H IS a BUYER...but he did change his BEHAVIORS when he became involved with the OW....

I held on to my belief that he is basically a BUYER and did not give up on that notion...THANK GOD...

I did not believe the person that he had become was REALLY HIM....He was convinced of that..the REAL HIM was the person that he had become during the A...I NEVER BOUGHT THAT...THANK GOD....

I have REAL PROBLEMS though with the MINDSET that people CANNOT CHANGE...

I have CHANGED TREMENDOUSLY over my LIFETIME...I continue to CHANGE AND GROW...

I think it's a PESSIMISTIC VIEW OF MANKIND to think that there is NO HOPE..that people are not reaching towards the GOOD..that there is NO SALVATION....

As I stated on my THOUGHTS...thread..It is important to NEVER GIVE UP HOPE if not for your MARRIAGE..maintain your sense of HOPE for your OWN SALVATION.....

I personally don't believe it's helpful to accept the negative point of view...especially when we are uncertain what the future holds...

Of course, I am person who has FAITH IN GOD..that HE WILL ALWAYS BE THERE FOR ME..TO SEE ME THROUGH....

With God, all things are possible....

I am a person who has even seen miracles...

Haven't you Lemon, in your work?

Actually, the famous saying came from Popeye the Sailor.

"I yam what I yam. I'm Popeye the sailor man."

Popeye was a TEXAN for sure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Poppycock.

I agree with Low Orbit.You are what you choose to be."You are what you are" rings like one big excuse to me in most respects except to say yes,I am a woman/man,FACT.

You can choose to be a cheater,smoker,abuser,thief and be rude,hateful and ignorant.Or,choose to be faithful,non smoker,caring,law abiding,sincere,loving and educated individual.And so on.

People shouild re-examine this myth and start learning how to be the best they can be,live a life closer to God or do whatever to improve their lives.

Everyone has the capacity to change.Like I always say,it all comes down to the choices we make.

O

I agree Low Orbit...you are what you CHOOSE to be.

The infamous words that began my nightmare confirm that...

[color:"red"] "I thought you'd never find out!"
[/color]

Are those the words of someone incapable of choice?

Nope...

I agree that the WS made choices. But once those were made, the BS needs to realize at some point they are what they are. After 3 years of this (can't believe I did it THAT long), I'm in favor of a much shorter Plan A/Plan B.

Believer:

You said:




Do you mean that the CHOICES "are what they are" or the WSes...

I believe at the point of D-Day and learning that your spouse is WAYWARD that he BS needs to ACCEPT THE REALITY of this. However, WSes definitely can change..AFTER HITTING BOTTOM...IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO...

Yep, agreed wholeheartedly......and I don't believe one is incapable of change, just as the Cowboys and Parcells could win the SB.....but for now, if one is cheating on their wife/husband, and children...."they are what they are". UNtill they choose to be different, they ARE WHAT THEY ARE. There is no other way to romantacize it or buff it up. YOu cannot shine $hit... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ok, Lemon...

I agree with your viewpoint..

DON'T DENY REALITY...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />