hile my W, a SAHM, didn't have your typical A, she also suffers from severe depression and has had several breakdowns over our 10+ year marriage. The last breakdown was prefaced with her telling me of an "incident" that occured between her and an old friend (not sure what they were in the past) while we we heading to another city for our anniv. I got held back a day and she went out without me and she met up with the OM for lunch and dinner... and GUESS WHAT HAPPENED!? Boy, were we both grossly naive. How could that not have happened after she had had 10+ years of unresolved emotions for this person? This was an EA more than a PA but during that trip, it became a PA..just one incident and you would not believe how our lives have changed.

Anyway, on the day she told me of the A (9 months later), she suffered severe paranoia (it had been brewing for months) and I took her to hosp. only to leave the same day with her being somewhat ok. Her MD gave her ADs, then took herself off (BAD MOVE) and then, while I'm still trying to recover from the A, and only a few weeks afterwards, she has another very serious breakdown that lands her in a psych clinic for 4 days. Are you feeling my pain yet? 4 days in the hosp., I've got (3) kids and an executive-level position to maintain and all for what? The A or her depression?? Someone please tell me which it is! PLEASE! If it's for the Depression, then I'm there.. in sickness and in health, right.. but did she funk herself over withdrawal from the OM? He that ****** really worth a 12 year marriage and the mental health of 3 beautiful children? I just need to know if he's in her head or her heart. If her heart, then I can't live with it. If her head, then I'm willing to help her with it, as painful as it is for me.

So my S gets out of hosp. and is now in therapy and on meds (probably AD for life) and things were fine for a few weeks and this week she's not sleeping and waking up at 2-3am each night, something that used to occur quite often but hasn't since she got out of the hosp. Following a therapy session, she calls me crying and tells me she's thinking about the OM and that regardless of what they were, she loved him,wanted to marry him, they were friends... blah, blah, blah.. and I'm like.. ok.. but now what? If you want to be with him, go be with him. WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO SAY?? GO.. be happy.. just give me peace. I deserve peace. I've truly done nothing. She says it's not about me at all and that I deserve better. Is that the bad mind talking or her heart?

Now, here are my questions that I so desperately need answers to. We start couple therapy in two weeks and hopefully, this will all be worked through but I see that I can hit the masses with this forum. I'm hoping there are some succcess stories out there that deal with Depression and A and EA and PA..

1) Does she get a pass for the A, be it a one time PA plus a EA of longing for the entire marriage, all because she has probably been depressed her entire life and had a really messed up childhood? She says she loves me and doesn't see a life without me but should I stand for her keeping the OM in her heart? or.. he he just a symbol of some kind that she needs to hold on to, part of her deluision/depression? Does anyone actually ever have someone's heart 100%? Am I asking for too much?

2) I'm not sure if my recent needs for affection were always there but I feel as if we're not affectionate except for sex, which ironically, both of us would say was ALWAYS great up until recently. Go figure. Could be the meds or she still harbors some guilt over the whole thing, but now she can't reach orgasm, something she did 100% of the time for the entire time I've know her. Punishing herself? I think she thinks God is.. .

3) After all this, she still wrestles with lost hopes, lost dreams and with this "connection" to the OM. Mind you she tells me that they NEVER actually had sex (he's impotent or something) and that the A/incident was only oral (him to her). Not that the details matter, but sex is sex right? And cheating is cheating. She also tells me that she wanted it, to express herself, to feel good but never says how the OM felt about it? Does it matter? God, those words cut like a knife.. She wanted to express herself at the expense of a 12 year marriage and 3 small children? Is that absurd? Is that the Depression or the gross selfishness of an abused inner child. SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS?? Immaturity? Heart or Mind?

4) Is all this bad stuf simply a result of her carrying the guilt of the A AND the EA of 10+ years (not a true EA since they only started emailing and chatting a year prior to the PA) but I know for a fact that she had feelings unresolved for the entire marriage. A fact she doesn't deny. Is this guilt or depression or both? I also know that she has been depressed for most of her life. We both know that now. She says since childhood.

5) Should I stay married, if my needs for affection are not met and if she continues to harbor feelings for the OM, even if it may be delusional and part of her mental illness? Is that a cop out for what it really is? She loved him and he never loved her or it just didn't work out? Whatever. Can I make her not feel something? Would our marriage not be a lie if I stayed, if only for the kids? Could I spend 20+ years with her for the kids at the expense of my soul being ripped out in grief and sadness? Sshould I suck it up?

6) Will the kids suffer that much if we break nicely and they don't see anger and pain during the split ? God, they are all I feel for.. so innocent and so loving.. having to be witness to nervous breakdowns, arguments and shouting over infidelity.. and lack of affection.. they know something is wrong. Children FEEL things like animals feel a storm coming.. they are sensitve. I love them so much and they deserve so much more. I get so angry over that.

Anyway.. I know there's a lot here but I would greatly appreciate any advice from anyone that has suffered with something as complicated as this.
An A with plus mental illness (depression) plus an EA, even if one-sided (her to him. He never called her) S gets mad when I say the EA was/is a delusion and a fantasy and merely represents a symbol of something in her, unresolved. An avoidant that she can't have.. Co-dependent since he suppposedly also suffered abuse of sorts as a child. I don't care what it is. She's married and you can't have both! I can't live with that. She must let him go or we can;t survive. How do I make her understand that I'm serious? Seperate? Let's see what comes out of the couples therapy. God, I hope the therapist is the right person for us... if not.. my life will change because of it.

I want my wife, I want my children and I want my family.. Is that too much to ask for? I feel so angry and hopeless sometimes.. I cry out of the blue and started having panic attacks after 12 years of remission. My life is 100% fine outside of this. Friends, works, life, God.. it's all good...

Please SHARE if you have life experience. I know someone has or is going through something similar. In this society, how could they not. Hopefully, they read this board.

Thanks and God bless all of you for your strength and courage. We are all here seeking help and recover for ourselves, ur unions and probably for our children.. a NOBLE cause indeed....

Thank you.

It sounds like she just wanted emotional needs met and probably got "cold feet" about your anniversary trip together if she felt that her needs were not being met by you. Fear. It also sounds like she had mood-disorder issues already.

[/quote]Anyway, on the day she told me of the A (9 months later), she suffered severe paranoia (it had been brewing for months) and I took her to hosp. only to leave the same day with her being somewhat ok. Her MD gave her ADs, then took herself off (BAD MOVE) and then, while I'm still trying to recover from the A, and only a few weeks afterwards, she has another very serious breakdown that lands her in a psych clinic for 4 days. Are you feeling my pain yet? 4 days in the hosp., I've got (3) kids and an executive-level position to maintain and all for what? The A or her depression?? Someone please tell me which it is! PLEASE! If it's for the Depression, then I'm there.. in sickness and in health, right.. but did she funk herself over withdrawal from the OM? He that ****** really worth a 12 year marriage and the mental health of 3 beautiful children? I just need to know if he's in her head or her heart. If her heart, then I can't live with it. If her head, then I'm willing to help her with it, as painful as it is for me.[/quote]
I think she would have had this breakdown regardless of any feelings she may have pertaining to the OM. Realistically speaking, the OM would not support her "in sickness and in health." He was there for the fling and to satify his own "momentary" E needs, IMHO.

[/quote]So my S gets out of hosp. and is now in therapy and on meds (probably AD for life) and things were fine for a few weeks and this week she's not sleeping and waking up at 2-3am each night, something that used to occur quite often but hasn't since she got out of the hosp. Following a therapy session, she calls me crying and tells me she's thinking about the OM and that regardless of what they were, she loved him,wanted to marry him, they were friends... blah, blah, blah.. and I'm like.. ok.. but now what? If you want to be with him, go be with him. WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO SAY?? GO.. be happy.. just give me peace. I deserve peace. I've truly done nothing. She says it's not about me at all and that I deserve better. Is that the bad mind talking or her heart?[/quote]
I suspect it is her mood-disorder speaking. Ask her to think about it as "real life" and see if she really believes this man loves her the way she "feels" like she loves him. Would he stand by her? Doubtful.

[/quote]Now, here are my questions that I so desperately need answers to. We start couple therapy in two weeks and hopefully, this will all be worked through but I see that I can hit the masses with this forum. I'm hoping there are some succcess stories out there that deal with Depression and A and EA and PA..[/quote]
That would be me. Major depression, emotional affair (me, no sex, but "believing" at the time that I loved this OM), same story as far as the breakdowns and hospitalizations along with my H carrying the entire load, AD's permanently, went off of AD's on my own once as well, H had SA with multiple women. Recently came to find out I have progressive neurological breakdown due to a head injury -- progressed, unknown, for 20 years. Yes, we are a success story and our couples therapy solved many/most of our problems, especially with communication & emotions about everything, so that we could move on and also address the other issues destroying the marriage.

[/quote]1) Does she get a pass for the A, be it a one time PA plus a EA of longing for the entire marriage, all because she has probably been depressed her entire life and had a really messed up childhood? She says she loves me and doesn't see a life without me but should I stand for her keeping the OM in her heart? or.. he he just a symbol of some kind that she needs to hold on to, part of her deluision/depression? Does anyone actually ever have someone's heart 100%? Am I asking for too much?[/quote]
I'd say he's just a symbol; based on her past issues and her present condition. I believe she will get over him; the counseling will certainly help sort that out. She does not feel good about herself so she has found something to hold onto inside her for reassurance. Although you may be there for her in this way, she needs it from the "outside" because she is not capable of meeting that need for herself which creates distance between the two of you.

[/quote]2) I'm not sure if my recent needs for affection were always there but I feel as if we're not affectionate except for sex, which ironically, both of us would say was ALWAYS great up until recently. Go figure. Could be the meds or she still harbors some guilt over the whole thing, but now she can't reach orgasm, something she did 100% of the time for the entire time I've know her. Punishing herself? I think she thinks God is.. .[/quote]
It is quite possible that she feels like a "nothing," a "nobody," etc. given her health problems. Also, loss of libido and/or the ability to reach orgasm is a side-effect of most anti-depressants. I lost interst as well, in my case, because "I wanted to" but could not reach orgasm ... only arousal, so that was very frustrating. At times, I could not get into the mood at all. Not to get too personal, but I realize my husband has needs so I "took care of him" in that way. Lubricant also helped take care of what "I couldn't."


[/quote]3) After all this, she still wrestles with lost hopes, lost dreams and with this "connection" to the OM. Mind you she tells me that they NEVER actually had sex (he's impotent or something) and that the A/incident was only oral (him to her). Not that the details matter, but sex is sex right? And cheating is cheating. She also tells me that she wanted it, to express herself, to feel good but never says how the OM felt about it? Does it matter? God, those words cut like a knife.. She wanted to express herself at the expense of a 12 year marriage and 3 small children? Is that absurd? Is that the Depression or the gross selfishness of an abused inner child. SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS?? Immaturity? Heart or Mind?[/quote]
It sounds like she is suffering very much and needed this off of her conscience; I would guess her reasoning is to be forgiven, loved, and accepted by you once again. I would also guess that she is desperately reaching out and you should watch carefully for suicidal tendencies. I agree, cheating is cheating, EA or otherwise; however, it does sound like she is willing to "own up" and take responsibility for it. The counseling will really help!

[/quote]4) Is all this bad stuf simply a result of her carrying the guilt of the A AND the EA of 10+ years (not a true EA since they only started emailing and chatting a year prior to the PA) but I know for a fact that she had feelings unresolved for the entire marriage. A fact she doesn't deny. Is this guilt or depression or both? I also know that she has been depressed for most of her life. We both know that now. She says since childhood.[/quote]
It is both. I suspect she will feel much better when the issues in/of the marriage are addressed and will be much better able to cope with the mood disorders. That was the case with me. My marriage was my core; my mate was my core; my need for him was my core. Until I felt like I was loved, supported, needed, desirable, and purposeful to my H ... I could not recover. I felt like I had no foundation to stand on, so what was the point?! Lost everything ... rather just die, etc., etc. To tired, hurting too much to "start over." So I, unfortunately, sunk so low that I attempted suicide before our problems got addressed. Which completely goes against my entire spiritual, moral, Christian belief system; I was truly sick.

[/quote]5) Should I stay married, if my needs for affection are not met and if she continues to harbor feelings for the OM, even if it may be delusional and part of her mental illness? Is that a cop out for what it really is? She loved him and he never loved her or it just didn't work out? Whatever. Can I make her not feel something? Would our marriage not be a lie if I stayed, if only for the kids? Could I spend 20+ years with her for the kids at the expense of my soul being ripped out in grief and sadness? Sshould I suck it up?[/quote]
I suggest you work together and consult about this with the counselor. Insist on consistent progress ... which may be slow, but make sure it's consistent.

[/quote]6) Will the kids suffer that much if we break nicely and they don't see anger and pain during the split ? God, they are all I feel for.. so innocent and so loving.. having to be witness to nervous breakdowns, arguments and shouting over infidelity.. and lack of affection.. they know something is wrong. Children FEEL things like animals feel a storm coming.. they are sensitve. I love them so much and they deserve so much more. I get so angry over that.[/quote]
Yes, children suffer. Don't you think they want both of their parents though? I would have that counselor help the children too ... or help you to help them, as far as how this should be explained and addressed.

[/quote]Anyway.. I know there's a lot here but I would greatly appreciate any advice from anyone that has suffered with something as complicated as this.
An A with plus mental illness (depression) plus an EA, even if one-sided (her to him. He never called her) S gets mad when I say the EA was/is a delusion and a fantasy and merely represents a symbol of something in her, unresolved. An avoidant that she can't have.. Co-dependent since he suppposedly also suffered abuse of sorts as a child. I don't care what it is. She's married and you can't have both! I can't live with that. She must let him go or we can;t survive. How do I make her understand that I'm serious? Seperate? Let's see what comes out of the couples therapy. God, I hope the therapist is the right person for us... if not.. my life will change because of it.[/quote]
The therapy will give you a lot of answers; use care in selecting a good therapist. I would also suggest you work the program outlined on this site from start to finish and request that she do so as well. You could take the materials, with the findings, with you to the therapy sessions.

[/quote]I want my wife, I want my children and I want my family.. Is that too much to ask for? I feel so angry and hopeless sometimes.. I cry out of the blue and started having panic attacks after 12 years of remission. My life is 100% fine outside of this. Friends, works, life, God.. it's all good... [/quote]
No, this is not too much to ask for and I DO believe that you and your W CAN do this!!! Pray always, ask God to come in and heal you both, have faith!!!

[/quote]Please SHARE if you have life experience. I know someone has or is going through something similar. In this society, how could they not. Hopefully, they read this board.[/quote]
I have life experience on this, almost to the nose; I'll be happy to share with you all I can.

Thanks and God bless all of you for your strength and courage. We are all here seeking help and recover for ourselves, ur unions and probably for our children.. a NOBLE cause indeed....

Thank you. [/quote]

Please know ... I can only tell you about my personal experience and that of my H in going through all this. I am not a professional on the matter.

It took time, but our marriage is healed. And even my problems no longer impact the marriage in a negative way!!

Hang in there!!!! You're both, and your children, are in my prayers!! And I'll keep checking this thread.

One more thing, very important! Did she have to go through day-to-day trials and tribulations with this OM, ever? Pertaining to maintaining a long-term relationship, raising children, maintaining/establishing and running a household, child-rearing, etc.?

It doesn't sound like it. I suspect this is only an "emotional escape" for her, a "fairytale fantasy," although she may not realize it yet ... because she is probably aware that she has some very deep and emotional personal problems to address IN ADDITION to the impact on your/her marriage and you as an individual. What I'm saying, this sounds like an "automatic thinking response" that she is using for relief, like a drug. Sounds to me like she's suffering from a lot of long-term, lifelong, difficulties that have piled up to the point she's overwhelmed by them.

I kept that "fantasy tape" playing in my head (rewind, play, rewind, play) and eventually it was an addiction that I was using to cope. Just like drugs though, it was a far cry from reality. And just like your W, I also spoke the same to my husband about how I "supposedly" felt about this OM.

Once I looked at it realistically, properly treated and living in REAL LIFE, in the perspective I describe above, I realized that my husband is nothing short of a saint ... I NEVER loved the OM and I was TOTALLY DELUSIONAL!!!

<BUMPING UP> this is a duplicate post, only the Subject Line has changed slightly.

Thank you so much 2TearyEyes!! I hope those eyes have dried. It sounds like they have and I get GREAT hope from your words. Like my life is hanging on them. Please stay with me for a while if you can!

I felt so much better after reading your reply earlier and actually applied some techniques this evening that I think may have worked. Her responses were right out of the MB book, if you will. AMAZING STUFF!! I'm in and Plan A is officially in effect....

Here's the latest:

I mentioned the NC letter and she jumped all over it, only she wanted to include how he hurt her and all this other stuff!? I explained that the letter was for me, the BS, and that it was a way for her to show me a committment to end the EA. She asked how he would know if he ever read it and didn't want to make it a last communicado so we agreed it wasn't good timing.
With that said, are we still in Plan A? Must she send the NC letter per MB rules or can it be customized? I know it shouldn't be open ended. Nothing's easy, is it? I actually did send the OM an email requesting that he not communicate with my wife, which she was orginally very upset about but as of tonight, after I told her what I said, felt respect for me since I questioned his values and motives and if he knew that I had faciliated her seeing him and that she needed closure. Tonight was great progress since I've changed... I know that I must change things since I can't make her change. It works!!! I know it works! I don't get angry over any of it. I have her.. I have the upper hand.. and I have the ability to let her realize what she has in me.. He has nothing to show her. I will remove LUs from her LB if I can help it, especially when it comes to the OM. I told her that. She wants me to share some of the insight here but I'm afraid to show her my posts.. now.. maybe I will just cut and paste some excerpts..

You asked me if she ever had to go through day-to-day trials and tribulations with this OM, ever? Pertaining to maintaining a long-term relationship, raising children, maintaining/establishing and running a household, child-rearing, etc.???

HUH, let's see.... they never actually went out as boyfriend and girlfriend. they worked together. She like him and I suspect he avoided her because he had a girlfriend. They never actually had sex since he's impotent or something but "they were friends" and he slept over her house once or twice. She could talk with him for hours.. he was tortured as a child just like she was... blah, blah, blah.. like my childhood was a friggin' picnic... P-lease....

I suspect she had a crush on him and he blew her off or used her as a sounding board for problems that he couldn't share with his girlfriend at the time (go figure) and he may have been engaged or something to another girl. My S was vunerable and insecure from her own abuses as a child and you know the rest.. it's right out of the books. ****** hath no fury.... as a women scorned... only this women may have had depression and mental illness back then and somehow, the feelings (and scorn) for the OM manifested themselves into some sort of symbol, an addiction, or something.. Do I keep blaming the mental illness or is that wrong? Could it have innocently been her heart and not her mind? A young women's crush? If so, then I think I can somehow live with that as well as a compasionate spouse but I can't live with it NOW, after 12 years or marriage and 3 children and the fact the they never spoke for over 10 years. How could a "ghost" have so much power over us and our relationship when she has so much love right here in front of her!!??

Oh.. and there's one more tidbit I forgot to add in my initial post.. I facilitated my S hooking up with the OM in a certain way. I found his email address for her.. and condoned her talking with him since she had always told me she needed "closure" to whatever it was that they had. It was always about "closure"... So silly me goes and books our annual anniversary trip to the same town that the OM lives in so we could have our trip and so she could see him ... Was I dumb or what?

I had also read some journals/diaries over the years and saw entries in there about her feelings for him. WHAT WAS I THINKING?? How she wanted him to just be her friend.. how she wanted to be validated.... there goes that avoidant, co-dependent stuff again.... I know she also found him attractive.. her type, if you will... whatever....

She also told me tonight that the PA (one incident) was a MISTAKE and that she feels as if she blew a chance for some sort of relationship. with him I explained to her that with the PA or not, the EA was also wrong, period and that all contact must stop, absolutely. She agreed but started to cry. I truly feels that she feels that the marriage and the children/family are the priority but she's wrestling with letting go.. it's the classic withdrawal and she knows she's in the "fog".. I called it that and she looked at me like it meant something to her. She's never been her but it obviously fits... it is a fog..

Finally, she told me that during one of those sleepness nights recently, that she actually felt like letting go of her feelings for the OM!! She said she felt sick and like vomiting.. and your comments about addiction resonated in my head when she said that.. Was that a Good sign? Is she heading toward the light? Will she let go soon?

She removed his email address from her contacts shortly before the breakdown, which was the start of the withdrawal and it's been almost 10 weeks. How long could a WS feel withdrawal? Did I read two years or was that my pain??

That's it for now..

Thanks again.. You have truly given me tremdous HOPE.. more than I've felt in 3 months!! Thank you for that.

May I ask what suicidal tendacies are exactly, since you mentioned you were there.

Also, I have been there for her throughout all of this. Never having an affair myself.. I've just been there.. always there.. Is that the problem? Should I maybe be a little more avoidant.. If you haven't guessed, I could be a bit over the top with watching over her..and she's someone who likes her space..

Thanks again for sharing. I'm sure the suicide stuff is painful to recall but it's important to me. You can help me!

Too much keyboarding and too personal. Please e-mail me for the "delicate" details. BTW ... I was PO at you earlier!! LOL I'll explain:

DiverseProlific1@aol.com

Very happy to help you out! Make sure you seek professional advice though. I can only share my story.

just sent.. thank you!!

sorry for whatever I did..

;-)