A wee vent:

The ex decided that it was time for DD17 to meet OW and what better place (in his sick mind) to do that but at her work where she had no choice but to see and meet OW!!

DD17 tried to avoid them but being that she was the only cashier at the time had to ring them up. Ex had OW do the check-out and DD17 said she (OW) said nothing but just smirked at DD17 the whole time. And to boot they spent almost $1,000.00 - and he said he broke ...yeah right, that was OUR money they were spending...arrggghh!!!

He does stuff like this then he can't understand why the older kids hate him. I think what he did was horrible. He should not have put DD17 in that position and he should have respected her wish NOT to meet OW.

I have to pick the kids up at their house this morning for church. I'm tempted to say something to ex about it, but wonder if keeping my mouth shut is for the best. The crap he pulls sure makes it hard for me to bite my tongue...I've bit it so many times I think it just about severed.

Take care,

~Jamie~

Jaime,

Sorry to hear the low depths a WS does even to their children. All the more reason to stay away from such a crazed man.

So there's a 'smirking' OW in your area??!?!? I'd say, let the children give the WS a piece of their mind. Ask the children if they are ever put in the same sitch again, what t/d. Give them their options. The sad piece is they may have to use them but at least they know they have options. It is sooo hard for our children since loving their parents and trusting them is all they know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Arrrrgh.... I hate A's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Sending hugz your way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

thanks Orchid,

I thought it was quite low myself... it upset DD17 a great deal but she handled it well, if she had not been at her place of work she would have blasted OW..but because of where she was and out of respect of work policies...she was as polite as she could muster and even mummbled "have a nice day" to OW.

WH knows DD17 well enough to know that her place of work was the best place to force them to meet. He is ruining his relationship with the kids on his own. The older kids have no respect left for him...it's sad but he brought it all on himself.

Take care,

~Jamie~

Remember time is on your side.

Time is an enemy of the A. In time, their wrinkles of the A start to show. There's no creme for dem wrinkles. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

(((((Jamie)))))

Okay, here's some of the "hard part" and "tough things" to deal with in situations like this.

He is obviously not a Christian, or is one that is so backslidden that he needs to ask himself if he IS a Christian, because God is quite clear, unrepentant adulterers will NOT be saved and in heaven, so he needs to make sure of his salvation.

You and he are NOT married, and he can have ANY "other woman" he wants and go anywhere he wants to go with her. It just so happens that THIS other woman is THE other woman who broke up your marriage and family. His showing up where your daughter works is just another blantant example of his "self-focus" and "self-indulgence" regardless of anyone else or how his actions might hurt them. In short, it shows his STANDARDS are NOT God's standards and that leaves "self" and "Satan."

He remains your children's father (albeit a poor example of one) and they are commanded by God to "honor thy father and they mother." That sometimes "difficult to obey" command is NOT a suggestion, and the obedience of also carries with it a promise from God to those who are obedient.

It is NOT always easy to obey God's commands, as your husband has "shown them" with respect to the 7th Commandment. But in their righteous anger against his sin, do not encourage them to also sin. Instead, encourage them to obey God's commands them, whether they "Feel Like It" or not.

They CAN let "dad" know what they think of his sin and his enticement with his "jezebel," but they should not "cross the line" into sinning themselves. They can show their anger, as long as it against the SIN and the choice to SIN against God, you, and them and is kept under control.

God bless.

Hi ForeverHers,

He is a christian and yes very much has backslid... He has said that he and OW might start going to church..and it really wouldn't surprise me to see them come to the church that the kids and I attend (which is the same one that "WE" as a family have been going to for years). He seems to be focused on getting everyone to accept their relationship.

I have instructed the older children to be prayerful about how best to be with him. I've told them countless times that even though what he did was not right, he is non the less still their dad. But now what I get from both of them is that X "IS NOT" dad (they are from my late H) and therefore needn't treat him as such. What am I to do? I do make it a point to not allow any disrespect talk from them around the younger ones.

Take care,

~Jamie~

Okay now he is really pushing it!! X just called me to say that he is going back to DD17 work to return something that they bought, because the store screwed up the purchess. And once again DD17 is working today... how much does he need to put her through.... I am so stinking PO'd right now.. but I bit my tongue (once again).

Hopefully there will be another cashier available today.. everyone at DD work knows the sitch, so I'm pretty confident they'll gather round her today and help get her through it. I hate what X continues to do...the pain that he continues to cause.

Take care,

~Jamie~

What a lower lifeform your XH is! Since you aren't married, he is well within bounds to introduce your ids to OW. Not that it's morally or ethically acceptable. So, cowardly to do it to her at wor. She has to be civil there. Everybody nows that the customer is always right.

Perhaps the best thing is for her to just pretend they are just another faceless customer. I hope that there really wasn''t a cashier error. What a stiny thing for him to do.

You are well rid of that piece of trash. Is OW still M?

Jamie, you know much better than I do whether or not your husband ever had a saving faith. I can only tell you what the Scripture clearly tells us, and at least TWO very clear passages in Scripture bear on your husband, his actions, and the responses of "fellow believers."

First, there will be NO unrepentant adulterers in heaven. Since I happen to believe in the doctrine of "eternal security" for those who have truly surrendered their lives and accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, the conclusion is "obvious." As we are warned in the Parable of the Soils (Sower), there will be many who adopt the "appearance of accepting Christ" when in reality they have not and will NOT remain firmly rooted in Christ. That is why we are cautioned to "examine" our faith to make sure that it is real. Therefore, ANY adulterer who dies unrepentant CANNOT have had a saving faith, regardless of their "self-delusion." A saving faith, as James tells us, is "dead" without the outflow of "works" that comes as a result of obedience to God and His commands.

Your husband can "go to church" and "play church" all he wants to, but it won't "do" anything with respect to "exusing" his adultery or "earning" forgiveness and salvation.

Second, with respect to the church you attend, if he is a member, or someone "living in open and blatant sin," the church is COMMANDED by Jesus to "confront him in love" and to be very firm in how it "allows" him to interact with the church. Remember, we are talking about PROFESSED believers here who have claimed to accept Christ. "Christian liberty" in Christ is NOT a "blanket excuse or justification" to sin in willful opposition to God's commands, as in breaking the 7th Commandment. The church is instructed in Matthew 18:15-20 BY JESUS HOW to deal with a "brother" who is sinning. The INTENT is NOT punishment, but repentance and restoration.

He seems to be focused on getting everyone to accept their relationship. Of course he is. Sinners want more sinners and approval for their "choice" against God. We see it in all sorts of things today, as in adultery, homosexuality, refusal to accept the inerrancy of Scripture, denial of Christ's deity, etc.. But the church CANNOT and SHOULD NOT succumb to "political correctness" over obedience to God. Anything less is an endorsement of Satan's original lie to Eve, "God didn't really mean what He said."



Okay, I was unaware that he was not their biological father.

So the "rule" reverts to "love thy enemies," "do good to those who spitefully use you." In short, WITNESS your belief to them through your actions regardless of what they are doing. But in the same manner that I have advised spouses who are faced with and unrepentant spouse, you can LOVE them, but you don't have to live with them. God IS also a God of Peace to His children and Christ did allow divorce as a protection for the Faithful Spouse when faced with marital unfaithfulness. Frankly, your husband should consider himself "lucky" that he is not living in "Old Testament Israel," because the penalty the "church" would have exacted would have been his physical death.

So, your children have the right to treat him as "tax collector and a pagan" and have NO dealings with him. In many circles it's called "shunning." He is a PROFESSED believer, and believers ARE called to "judge" fellow believers when sin is obvious and blatant, and unrepentant.

And, they have a right to be angry (it's called righteous anger over deliberate sin against God and His commands). But the admonition that goes with that "Right" is that they are NOT to also sin and use that anger as an "excuse" for sinning. In short, with respect the younger children who may not "understand" as the older children do, they are not to make the children "stumble and sin" in how they respond to your ex-husband and his blatant sin. In other words, don't sin in front of them "as if" it's "okay" to sin. They CAN make it clear that what he is doing is WRONG and unacceptable to God and to you and to them.

Understand that they are teenagers and the hormones are raging and they have limited "life experience," so you may often have to "pick up the pieces" of this devastation that has been visited upon your family. Whenever you seem at the "end of your rope," lean heavily upon Philippians 4:13, "I can do all things through him (Christ) who gives me strength." It IS God's promise to faithful believers, and God is FAITHFUL to all of His promises.

The other way to look at it when talking to the teenagers is, "two wrongs do NOT make a right."

God bless.

Hi grapegirl -

DD17 did a very good job at just pretending she was any customer...

No OW is no longer married, she was divorced a few weeks before we were.

DD13 told me today the X wants to have DD17 over to his house on her birthday this month to celebrate her 18th, he thinks it would be fun to have her over to visit with his new family and future wife!! What is he thinking?!?!


Take care,

~Jamie~

Good. Whew....

Now with that invite and this mess....what does your DD17 think? Really, it s/b about her not the WS and his schemes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

What I would share with your children is the following:

1. Ask them if they see their dad being an indecisive person.
2. Ask if he c/b trusted to make long range plans (like a party).

3. Would they want t/b around such a person?

4. What are their thoughts regarding their dad, right now?

Let them know it is important for you to know how to help them by periodically having these types of discussions and if they need to talk inbetween those times, to let you know.


L.

Jamie, did your ex-husband adopt the children?

Suffice it to say that your daughter reaches the age of legal majority on her 18th, so the "decision" about any party, much less one at your ex-husband's so HE can manipulate them into "accepting" his adulterous relationship is up to your daughter. You can "advise" her, but she has to make the decision.

Pesonally, it seems as though he has already chosen path WITHOUT you and the family, so dragging your daughter into his "life" only serves HIS interest, not your daughters. "More of the same" it would seem.

God bless.

Orchid - I just got off the phone with DD17, she said that X and OW showed up at her work and officially introduced OW to DD, he then asked her to come over to his house so that she could get to know OW better. DD told him that she is usually busy. I told her that if she wanted to go over, that it was fine with me. I said "who knows, maybe you'll even like her". DD said "No - I hate him and I don't want to "get to know" OW."

She also said that they were both acting stupid..and when they left the lady standing in line behind them indicated that X seemed like a real A-hole...lol...

ForeverHers -

No - X never adopted the two older children. But to be fair to him, he was a great dad to them while they were growing up. It wasn't until they reached the teen years that all ****** broke loose and they all butted heads. He wanted complete control over them (right down to what music they listened too and clothes to wear) and you just can't expect that with teens. They were and still are awesome kids...they never got into drugs or alcohol, they hung with decent kids.


Take care,

~Jamie~

I've been through this as well...
...even during the A...
...when the OM was 'playing' daddy in my house while I was on business trips.
grrrrrrrrr...
...those days were a horrendous nightmare.

However, once the divorce is final...
...unless there are court orders restricting his contact with the kids....
...he has 'rights' to see them...
...and as was pointed out by others...
...they need to honor him...
...no matter what.

They don't have to honor his decisions...
...and not the people he fraternizes with...
...but as their father... he deserves basic human respect.

Your older daughter is at the age where her 'good' upbringing could/should guide her...
...but don't be too upset if, in the interest of loving ther father, she may do things that 'you can't understand'!

This has happened to my stepson (and unfortunately for him... he never cut the appron strings).

Now...
...here's the bottom line...
...prepare the kids for the eventual demise of their father's relationship with the OW.

It took my XW 7 years...
...but she too broke up with the OM of her A
...(6+ years living together... but never married)

Relationships that stem from As...
...are particularly suseptible to future break-ups...
...it's in the DNA of those kinds of relationships.

Help your DDs understand the real meaning of marriage...
...and sacrifice... and love... and responsibility.

Don't denegrate the XH...
...but let them know there are better ways to develop healthy relationships, especially for their lives.

Jim

Hi Jim,

I agree with you whole heartedly about the kids needing to spend time with their dad. And the younger ones go with him when he askes for them. I can't force my older ones to hang with him, they are old enough to make their own decisions. They both have stated that they do not love him and haven't for many years. Neither of them call him dad, but opt to call him by his name. When I talk to them about X I always refer to him as "dad". Neither of the older kids has ever spoken disrespectfully when confronted by their dad, they are very cool, but cordial.


Take care,

~Jamie~

I have never contacted OW now XH... I just recently found out what his last name is and I have his phone # and address. What I want to know is should I send him a letter just to kind of introduce myself to him? My thoughts are merely to make sure that he knows that I am safe to be around his kids and not some whacko XW. His kids and my kids spend time together and get along well. My kids have indicated inviting OW kids to the AWANA's program at our local church. Where OW XH has the kids more then 50% of the time I thought I should put his mind at ease as to who I am and what I am about. Should I do this or just leave well enough alone?

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated..

Take care,

~Jamie~

No easy answers for any of this, and I bring up these points for discussion purpose....some things for us all to think about....and I'm not saying that you haven't had open discussions about this....

"the younger ones go with him when he askes for them"

"I can't force my older ones to hang with him, they are old enough to make their own decisions."

It's important that the younger ones have a relationship with their father, but are they also encouraged to have a voice regarding whether or not they go with WXH & OW?

Kids often do what is expected of them because they don't want to "disappoint" a parent...they put on a happy face because they see that is what both parents are doing on visiting days and so they figure...well, everyone else seems ok with this, I can't show them that I am confused about this"...

and although it is important that everyone is speaking in a respectful manner about WXH, do we allow the kids to express any anger they may feel about the situation? Or do we equate anger with disrespect? At some point everyone needs to be honest about how they feel, and why would it be so wrong for the younger ones to know how their older siblings feel and why? Maybe it would validate for them some of their own feelings. It must cause some confusion for them when they see them not spending time with their father...

I think we often go overboard "Normalizing" the whole situation and this causes the kids to go underground with their feelings. They may think something is wrong with the way they feel because everyone else seems to be ok with this new deal....

I also think that "normalizing" divorce also leads to a trend in society's thinking that Divorce is just no big deal... Haven't we all heard that? If we don't discuss openly and honestly with our children about the pain and hardships of divorce, how do they learn from it. They may feel it, but never have the words to express it....it becomes another one of those things that "no one ever talked about it"....

Are they aware of the Infidelity?

At what point should they know? Or do we just let them wonder all their lives? There needs to be a lesson learned in all of this, so that their own future relationships can be based on the truth of what they know and what they've learned...it's even more confusing when older siblings know and younger ones don't.

My youngest (D5 at the time)was aware of her father's affair when he left us. When discussing it, I would be honest and simply state, "Daddy's aren't supposed to have a girlfriend when they are still married", which explained why mommy & older siblings were sad...
She also knew that the OW was married & was getting a D because she had a "boyfriend".
Complicated? Sure....but I'd answer her questions simply and factually....
She still loved her Daddy and was excited whenever she saw him....I didn't call her Daddy names or vilify him....we did however leave a family event when WH showed up unexpectedly with OW. Older S was visibly upset and I wanted to send a clear message that this was NOT OK! You don't show up with an affair partner to a famiy wedding while you are still married and expect it to be no big deal!!!
What kind of message does this send to ALL of the children there?

One day, I was explaining that we were going to our divorced friend "Jane's" house, who's divorced boyfriend "Joe"'s children had been visiting the last time we were there. I told her that the girls weren't going to be there this time, they went home to their mothers'.

D5 exclaimed, "Joe is MARRIED and is dating Jane?"
"Oh no", I explained, "Joe is Divorced and the girls live with their mother".
"How come they are divorced" she asked. I said, "because Joe's wife had a boyfriend while they were still married...and Jane is Divorced because her husband had a girlfriend when they were married"

"Oh,like Daddy and "OW"....
"Yes", I said.

She thought about it for a minute and then firmly said, "What a MESS!"


AH, my darling girl, it most certainly is!

Not a lesson that any child should have to learn, but unfortunately that is the reality of our life!

Well, those are my thoughts on the subject....as usual I can get carried away!!!

Thanks for the reply Shugah....

I have tried to have conversations with the younger ones about X and OW..but they seem uncomfortable talking about it and tend to clam up... I know it is because of how I feel about the sitch. If they really like her I don't think they would tell me b/c they wouldn't want to hurt my feelings.

Yes they know about the infidelity... they know it was wrong.

The question that I had though was about if I should introduce myself to OW-Xh... because his kids and my kids most likely will be step-sibs..

Thanks again

Take care,

~Jamie~