I think there are many fathers who do not realize how little time they spend with their kids, until it's too late.
I had items written into the D to encourage X to participate in kids activities - both of us are allowed to attend. I put in the right of first refusal, and in 4 years, he's taken me up on this once, yet still claims to the kids that he doesn't get them enough.
The judges get it. When my X complained the stretch of time was too long, the judge put in an afternoon visit weekly, which he has never utilized.
I work and I am responsible for everything. I am tired of trying to drag X's [censored] to kids activities. It's no longer my job. Yet, I'm the one they seek crying because he failed to show up - yet again. And he wonders what I've done to "make them cry" when they have to go with him. I am there for my kids - that's what I do. I put them first. They are stuck in the middle.
And someday they will realize it's all words.

So for the fathers out there who feel they got cheated out of time. Find time with your kids. Whether on the telephone, attending their activities, or playing an important part of their lives. Be there - for them. It's all about the kids.

I'm stern about this because my X is again threatening to fight for more custody, while he doesn't even use the time he has now. Go figure.

My word to guys who want to parent more. JUST DO IT. Ask your X for more time. Don't make it about your X, make it about your kids. Participate in their activities, know their teachers, friends, etc. Be involved in their lives.

DON'T JUST TALK ABOUT IT. And don't make it about paying less Child support. Show the courts you are serious about it and you will benefit in the future.

Newly,

I am just doing it. I don't think you get it. My lawyer told me I could spend 10's of thousands of dollars and the judges in my county would still give her primary custody with me getting my YD EOW.

I am in contact with her teachers, her friends and their parents.

I did not seek to reduce child support. I offered CS as if she had SOLE custody 100% parenting time, but wanted 50/50 parenting time.

Face it, just like there are deadbeat dads, there are also mothers who just can't stand to think that their ex-husbands might be as good or even a better parent than they are.

I call, but my calls are not answered or not returned.

I've been trying to get the my week with my YD at Christmas confirmed for three months now.

Those calls and e-mails to my ex go unanswered.

If I Just Do It, I'm sure someone will say I kidnapped my YD. But the way my ex-wife did it, she "legally" kidnaps my YD from me, and the court says fine.

It's not about the money with me, it's about raising my YD.

T

My case: I would love to have sole custody but I had never said so, waiting for my X's opinion.
He wanted joint legal, permanent residence with me, and his 'visitations'.
I could have easily won sole custody, because my X would never spend any cent on that (better to say 'on us').
But, I accepted it, because I wanted to give X and our son CHANCE to be close, for that would be the best for my son.
I knew it'd be ugly for myself, but well, just one more sacrifice of me-Mother.

X is still fine with this, only problem is that he thinks he pays too much ($300/mth), and curses the law that he has to pay at all, for I earn more money than him...


I understand you, good fathers, for you are harmed by some legislations in your states.

However...
"A presumptive shared parenting" would harm too. The difference is, it'd harm MORE parents than now (IMHO of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

What would be an ideal law?
No state/law should have any 'presumption' at all. Decision making based on each and every individual case.
Parents, while divorcing, will make joint decision how to "share kids" (money, time).
If they don't agree, try mediation, court.
Every side (mother and father each) would have to prove that what they want IS better for their child(ren), and NOT for themselves.
Tests, physical and mental health tests, habits/addictions, maturity/responsibility, and MANY other ones.
Then - probation period! Three - six months, one year maybe. Following with 'evaluation' of that probe.
And after all of that - the legal decision.
With possibility of renewing it every x years.

I bet that many fathers, after all of this, would change their mind...

I would try with different lawyer...

I'm sure I could find a lawyer who would be happy to take my money.

Mine is an excellent lawyer, highly recommended and ethically sound. If he thought we had a chance in my county, he would take on that battle.

Sometimes, it's better to keep your powder dry and let your opponent hang themselves than it is to go pick a fight.

So I log everytime a call is not returned, the unanswered e-mails, everything. Once there is a patter established and grounds for revisiting this, we will.

T

EX so why didn't you use a mediator, just for custody. They are trained to find the middle ground.
Also, you could have requested a psychological evaluation, which is far less $ than the legal fees you mentioned.
My X demanded one of these, and got LESS custody than negotiated by the mediator - and that's what became the aqgreement.
I believe there must be more to the story here.

Do you live far away? There must be issues like the age of the child which make a difference here.

And I never get return calls either, I just document by fax when I've sent communication. If your children are old enough, get them a cell phone.

I suggested mediation, she refused.
Psychological eval is only good if judge actually follows recommendations.
I live 10 miles away.
YD is 7 years old.

Sometimes there are counties where the judges are just old men set in their ways.

Yeah, the more to the story is she moved out claiming she was searching for herself, all the while, setting presidence before going to court. By the time I found out she was having an affair, it was too late.

Face it, sometimes the good guys lose.

T

The next step is court then.


Don't they?
If they do not, make them do; must be the way.


And again, fight them too.
Teach them they practise current law not their own personal or traditional opinions.


Yes, unfortunately.

But you know what? If it related to my son - I could lose in anything I want for, but it would never ever be without fighting till the last penny and till my last breath. (Just a Mother talking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

B2N,

I'm fighting too, but in a different way. I'm not going BACK to court just to lose. Instead, I will just be the best dad I can be, let my YD know that I love her and that she can pick to come be with me anytime she wants.

That way, it is her decision, not the courts, not my ex-wife's.

My ex accuses me of being controlling, but when I suggest that YD decide what toys she wants at what home, I'm accused of trying to hurt XW. (How is letting YD decide where to keep HER stuff controlling on my part?)

YD tells me often that her mom won't let her call me, etc.

So my plan is to just be the best dad I can be, document, and let YD decide who she wants to spend time with when she has the choice.

Many lawyers in my county explain that a man cannot get much more than EOW in my county unless the mother is an axe murderer.

So I will win the battle where it matters, in my YD's heart.

T

My X set precedence too after he left by taking the kids 1/2 of the time. At mediation, I offered him 6 days of 14 and he refused, he insisted on going with the psychological evaluator and got even less time. Judges see the power play. The psychologist interviewed the kids and us, and put the children with the parent most likely to work in the best interest of the children. My X is inflexible, and continues to be.

So, I can't imagine why you wouldn't seek a remedy if you were truly an involved parent.
Now, my children rarely call their father or he them. But occasionally, they've picked up the phone to call him just as we've sat down to dinner - and I've said no, which is appropriate. And then they forget that they wanted to call.

If it is so important to you, set up a call date. Same time, same day so that it becomes routine. And toys and clothes stay at the home of the parent (or parent's family) who purchased them.

Newly,

Do I listen to you guys, or do I take my advice from a family of lawyers with 5 generations of experience in my county?

I'm sure all of you are great moms. Why do you find it so hard to believe what I'm saying?

T

LoversFirst1997:

Thank you for the information. I'm finding that nearly all articles about this subject are similar. (Striving to get Father's more/equal time with their kids.) My sitch is a bit different in that DD13 already has "split time" with her Mom and I, however desires to live primarily with me. We'll see what happens.

FR

These stories are not uncommon.

I also facilitate a support group for kids going through divorce and I hear about these stories of kids being caught in the middle all the time.

I really just wish parents would put there focus on what is best for the kids and quit using them as pawns to get back at their X.

The courts are unfair but they are there to resolve disputes. Someone always leaves unhappy. Sometimes both!

If both parents have the best interest of the kids at heart then they can negotiation a settlement and avoid the courts having to be involved at all. Unfortunately the whole divorce process breeds lots of anger and resentment that makes this very hard to do. If the courts want to do something, they should work hard to make divorce less confrontational.

How? I have no idea, maybe forced mediation instead of litigation and large penalties for couples forced to litigation?

JMHO...

Miker

PS. My custody arrangement was a negotiated settlement not one imposed by the courts.

Miker, my state provides free mediation for custody after a required parenting class to help the process. My X refused my generous offer, and the mediator told him it was likely the best he'd get. He fought it and got even less than offered. My lawyer believed my X used the kids as pawns.

"Why do you find it so hard to believe what I'm saying?"
I had a great long response typed last night, and it disappeared.

I thought about your question last night. I am so adamant about it because if an idiot like my X can get 1/3 time, I'm appalled that real involved parents get far less. Someone has the be the first to fight it, so do it. The pastor who led our Rainbows class said he was the first father to win Sole Custody in our state almost 20 years ago. Alot has changed since then, for the better.
My X acted like he was an involved father, yet he was never around. My 2 YO child ended up in the ICU when her father failed to keep his eye on her for 2 minutes. I worry when my children are with their father. He is not a responsible person. My children can't be in any activities on his time. No doctors, dentist, counselor appts on his time. No attendance at school events, birthday parties, etc. on his time. My children are getting cheated out of a real life. Just so he can pretend to his girlfriend that he really parents his children.

So, if you really want a fair parenting schedule, are you fighting for that, or just fighting for the sake of fighting.

In my state, the system is entirely biased torwards granting mothers full custody. She'd have to be a crack ho or a hooker to NOT get it.

Joint 50/50 custody is generally only granted if the mother decides she's good with it.

Dad's have no say. It sucks. The SYSTEM is DESIGNED to ensure father's are kept out of their children's lives.

Most states family courts are EXTREMELY biased toward mothers. Hands down. The statistics prove it overwhelmingly. The proble and the way to the solution is through your legislators gentlemen. Judges go by laws. Laws are passed by your legislators. Unlike someone said, mothers get custody about 90% of the time, not because it isn't best for the child to have substantial time with both parents, but because of the laws in the state. Many many fathers would love more time with their children...like my situation, that just isn't going to happen without a judge ordering it. The mother will let the kids go with ANYBODY but their father!! This is outrageous that a mother can turn the children over to neighbors and friends while the kids are begging, and the father is begging for him to have them! The system IS DESIGNED to keep children out of their fathers lives. It is all anchored in child support money that the state collects a large % from the federal government. Also in legislators and judges who buy into the "bovine theory"! PUKE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Since when are humans cows???

"The mother will let the kids go with ANYBODY but their father!! This is outrageous that a mother can turn the children over to neighbors and friends while the kids are begging,"
Again, do you have the Right of First Refusal in your document? If not, do it.
However, my X will do exactly as you wrote above, but he's the dad, so he can dump his kids off.

I so disagree with you on this. If you want your state to see things differently, than do something about it, rather than grumble on this site.

I'm not sure I understand your statement, "However, my X will do exactly as you wrote above, but he's the dad, so he can dump his kids off." Can you explain?

As far as right of first refusal? No, wasn't put in the original document. Thought it was needed...that the mother would be fair as she promised she would be. It will be going in the next one. It takes money to do that or it would be done already. Attorneys aren't free.

Grumble on this site? You have to be kidding me?! All I read is grumbling and bitching on this site! Some men make a few comments about the laws being unfair and they are grumbling. For your information, I lobbied very hard and successfully for the new child support law in my state. I've been in the paper and on numerous newscasts supporting the new law. Currently I am very involved in the next step, which is presumptive shared parenting. So don't tell me to stop grumbling and do something about it. Thank you.

Men and women who support equality and justice in our family court system, search the internet and join every father's group you can. Be active. Send letters to your legislators. It won't take much time if you do it everyday.
Most father's groups have "canned" letters that you can copy. Use those if you don't want to compose. Find out who is your representative and senators, make sure you put that you are their constituent in your letters. If you have time during session, go visit the capital and speak personally to every representative that you can. I practically lived at the capital on my lunch breaks! Until enough people protest, our children will continue to be pawns in the legal court system and vindictive ex's will continue to use these poor children as weapons.

I disagree that courts are biased towards mothers. In many cases when the mother is awarded primary physical custody, the father doesn't want anything more. In my case, although he takes them to dinner regularly, the kids' father has allowed them to visit only three times in the last year, and it has been years since more than one was allowed to visit more than one consecutive night. However, he kept our son from attending the high school of his choice, and wants to control what colleges our kids attend even though he doesn't pay one red cent of the tuition. It is all about control - he doesn't actually want to parent the children.

LF, your recent post says you are involved. Your prior posts read as if you'd given up the fight because your lawyer said so.
Again, did you request a psychological evaluation? If not, why?

I agree with Nellie, in many cases, the non-PPR parent doesn't want more time, they just want CONTROL. There are many parents who don't operate in the best interest of their children.

And LF, my comment meant that my X will not use the Right of First Refusal, he'll dump the kids on his mom or girlfriend (who appear to be fed up with this) and never ask me. I started faxing info to him for proof that I abide by the rules.

And, your comments above talk about changing Child Support, not about more time with your kids. What's your real motivation? If it is more time, then keep asking. Start with taking your DD out to dinner - without an overnight. If you prove to your X that you are capable of more time on a consistent basis, she may be more willing to compromise.
My X says he wants more time, but his actions speak volumes.
Again, I believe there must be more to the story than blaming the courts in particular states.