Thank you kdsheartbreak,
I’m Not expecting to much from this. She may not even respond.
But for one thing, in doing this, I re-established my position as her husband and that makes them cheaters. I’ll see. In the mean time I’ll work on plan A some more.

dlk21

Dlk21,

Heard ya on the radio! As I told you before, your WW and my WW are sharing the same alien or sharing the same brain because my WW said the same to me word for word! I am still hopeful that the 4 of us can go and scuba dive together!

Have you heard from WW?

Take care,
Van

She accepted!

So I called Steve’s office for what he thinks is the best course of action and he offered to talk to her one on one.
I just emailed my WW with this suggestion.
And I’m waiting for her reply.

I still think all this may be premature. She may be too deeply infatuated by OM to be able to consider anything reasonable and my LoveBank with her may still be to low.

Hi Van,
It was a privilege to get Dr Bill Harley’s input.

dlk21

Just wanted to say that today is not a good day. I have the flue; I feel really lonely; I miss my W very much. I hate the way she is towards me, she makes me feel so dejected. Time is wearing me down with this. I think I’ll need a break from this soon. I don’t see my dignity when I look in her eyes; I can’t see respect for me.

I feel like when I look in her eyes I don’t recognise myself and what I see is not to her liking. I hate this.

My wife is lost, my team mate is lost.

Tomorrow will be a better day,

DLK21

St-Valentin is a difficult night for me the BS.

She is probably out with the OM or in and not taking my call... Anyway... I don't know and that is telling in itself.

My wife is lost, my team mate is lost.

DLK21

Hi D.,

I feel your pain in your posts. I too feel the deep loneliness. The fact that you were a widower first at such a young age must make this hurt even more. Sometimes it is too much to bear.

I am glad you are in touch with Steve. He will keep you on track. If I may say, it sounds as though your wife is slowly coming around. From my sitch I have learned that even when they say they want back, sometimes it is two steps forward and one step back. It can be even more confusing and more hurtful. That is why it is really good that you are in touch with Steve. Hopefully he'll be able to support you through this process. Keep up your good Plan A, it seems to be working.

Just want to add that I admire your commitment to your wife. You guys blow me away that come on here and try so hard to change. What more could you possibly ask of someone that gives you unconditional love and willingly makes changes that would make you happy? You are special and hopefully she is starting to realize that again.

Happy Valentine's Day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Shattered,
Thank you for your worm comments. You really have a way with words.

Valentine ’s Day is the “I’m in love with you day” and getting nothing in that line from her on that day is gruelling. As you say, I think I must keep in mind that this is a process and not judge my sitch just by yesterday.

It feels weird thought. She seams to just want to be friends now. She has finished reading HNHN now and is starting LB… She says she wants to be a better person. I might stop posting in case she reads this and does not understand the process and my efforts. I don’t know.

DLK21

D,
Don't give up on this board so easily. Sometimes it is our only lifeline. Don't tell your WW what your username is, I don't think they really understand. It doesn't appear to me though that you've said anything in your posts to make her nuts.

Have a good night.
S.

Thanks Shattered,

I’m regrouping this week end after the difficult Val day. Returning to my core to find the strength for my efforts. Finding my base again.

I felt terribly lonely and jealous of him this week.

I spoke on the air with Joyce and Bill Harley and he thinks I should keep going with plan A. He thinks that by competing head on with the OM I will win out in the end. Things are better between us, i.e. she seams to like me now. She is reading HNHN and LB now but sais she wants to become a better person

I think I should call Steve soon to talk about the specifics.

She is not fulfilling any of my EN (especially not SF, obviously) but maybe with the exception of Admiration.

Take care Shat,

DLK21

Let me get this right. Not knowing is part of the problem. Not knowing where she is, if she is with him, what she thinks about him, what they are doing, how their A is going, if they have plans, etc is part of the torture this sitch is. She is LBing me big time just by not letting me know and that is also the A.

I deserve to know all these things but she has broken up with me, has moved out and she has admitted her A with OM to me so what can I ask?
What can I ask, what should I ask and how do I respond to what I find out and her attitude?

I think her A is not going that well but I don’t know at all. No one is giving me info one way or the other.

Can I ask (barf)? How is your relationship with “OM” these days?

I just think I am enabling by being nice to her. Or at least she could be seeing it like that.

Furthermore, when she is nice to me, she could be acting out of a wish to not be too hard on the guy she knows she is hurting so much and that she loves but that she is not in love with (me). She could be acting with out any regret that will make a difference in her decision to end our M.

All this is important to us or at least me and very confusing to me.

I just don’t want to be making this any harder than it is. I want to deposit love units, yes, but not show any signs of approving her A and going along with breaking up our M. How do I make the difference to her? I’m confused.

DLK21

Hi D.,
Hopefully others will join in. The gist of Plan A is that you give, give, give and don't expect anything in return. You want to show her that you can meet her needs. Usually, during the intial stages of an affair, they don't want anything to do with you. The more you try to grab hold of something, the more they push you away. Right now you just want to attract her to you as the most viable candidate. You don't want her to see you hurting and lonely, etc.

Get some hobbies and start to develop a network of friends. Go to the movies, take up a new interest, join a book club, etc. These will all help take your mind off things with WW and will also make you more attractive to her. Mystery intrigues them. You also need to prepare for a life without her if it comes to that. This will help you also.

As far as asking her questions, you should try to attempt to set up an honest dialogue with her. Let her know you are interested in total honesty and that she can talk to you about her feelings re OM and that you will not judge her. Come here and rant but be strong when dealing with her. Be prepared, she may not want to open up about OM. Just let her know you are there if she wants to talk.

Take care. What are you doing for yourself today? ? ? ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

DLK,

I don't know your sitch overly well....so I'm just going to respond with some important stuff about Plan A.

Please don't confuse being "nice" with Plan A. The purpose of Plan A is to offer the marriage as an attractive alternative to the affair....so that means ending love busters since things that destroy love are unlikely to be going on in the A. It means filling the ENs she will allow you to....because the A is very good at doing that. But nowhere does Plan A talk about giving with nothing in return, or pretending you're okay when you're really not....in fact....the purpose of doing these things is to create an environment where the you can negotiate with your spouse to end the affair. That's why the other parts of Plan A are some important. One of the most forgotten aspects of this Plan is "confrontation" and it's an important one. Without any of the likely lovebusters...djs, aos, dishonesty....and also without weeping....in other words...calm and from a position of emotional strength...it is very valuable to continue to tell your wife how hurtful her actions are to you, what you know to be true, and that while you are a compassionate person....the affair is an unethical and destructive choice and that you would like her to stop. Not just for YOU either.....for HER too because it undermines her basic humanity and contradicts the strength and ethics you know she's capable of. It is NOT a love buster to disapprove of the affair or to confront her about her actions in a respectful way.

Shattered....I'm not contradicting you chere....there is alot of "giving" in Plan A....but folks who give give give with nothing in return, quickly run out of steam and either love bust or throw in the towel. That's why it's so important not to feel as though you've become a doormat, enabler of the affair, who's just pretending things are okay while being abused or forgotten. Confrontation, which involves TRUTH....and that's why I love it....is very good at empowering the BS so that they don't overload on "niceness" and feel like an enabling chump.

I love all of your suggestions about taking care of self!! That's where BS can really recharge their batteries, feel good about themselves, and do a good Plan A.

Yes, what are you doing for yourself through all of this. How about listing the stuff. The big problem with Plan A is that a person is giving, giving, giving. Sooner or later their taker will come out, and we have to hope it won't be when the marriage has a chance to recover.

I think your situation is hopeful. The affair won't last - they never do. And this affair has a worse chance than many. Her OM was cheated on by his GF. So he picks a married woman for an affair partner. Not very smart. He will have a lot of baggage, and will not be able to trust your wife.

DLK,

Your situation is far from unique, and far from hopeless. Having said that, I remember what it was like on your end, and it seems that you're in a game and the score is 77 - 3 against you. Continuing on with that analogy, there is no play in the books that'll let you score 77 points, so you need to grind this out. Now, the beauty of this is that the "fantasy" of the affair will eventually wear off, especially if they spend more time together.

What's your plan? Well, you've talked with Bill and Steve, so they're the head coaches I'd listen to. My guess is that Steve will continue to coach you in Plan A---and the focus of that plan will be to avoid lovebusters, to keep interactions between you mostly light and pleasant, and to reiterate that you have great hope for the marriage and would be happy to work on it with her when she's ready to return. This expression shouldn't be done heavy-handed---you don't want to appear desperate or needy. You want to appear confident in your abilities and chances, sure that the worm of an OM can't give your wife what she really needs, and expect that soon the affair will crumble.

Easier said then done. In general, I would never ask specifically about the OM. She has intense (not real) feelings for this guy now---similar to how an addict has feelings for crack cocaine or heroin. It won't last, and she's going to eventually hit bottom and realize that she's messed up. You want to have a consistent track record of good marital behavior that will make you the logical alternative when she decides that this affair is no longer good for her. She'll have two choices---come back to you or leave both you and the OM. You want that choice to be in your favor, so you need to work now to establish the pattern and the safety in coming back to the marriage.

I dealt with a WW who continued the affair for about 8 months after discovery (she didn't leave home). The 5-6 months I stayed in Plan A, I felt as if I was getting killed by the OM. He could do no wrong, I felt like I could do no right. I was wrong---it was the most effective thing I could have done, and after the affair had ended, my wife returned to the marriage. A couple months into recovery she shared the fact that the main reason she came back was my Plan A efforts. While I was in Plan A---I had no clue I was being effective.

You have good coaches. Use them. Be consistent. Don't burn yourself out.

And with what Star suggested about "confrontation"---it's a very important part of Plan A. You need to let your wife know that it's not "OK" with you that she's doing this, and as star points out---it's behavior that undermines her basic values, and you realize that this isn't her. The key is calmness, respectfulness, and not a day-in, day-out focus on this single point. Plan A is an effort to negotiate the end of the affair.

Thanks for your reply Shattered,

I’ll try to make sense of this and think this thru.
At first, like you said, she was cutting me off completely. But now her being nice to me is confusing to me.

As for being open and honest, she was really put off by any of my attempts at reconciliation for the first few months so I could not tell her out right. She saw my actions as forceful and disrespectful of her feelings.

I can barely imagine not judging her… and now, her telling me her feeling towards OM? If that is what it takes I’ll get on with that line of action.

For a time I could read between the lines, these days it has gotten more complicated. Things are getting better in a sense but
I’m exhausted, of all this and Val-Day was really hard.

I’ll be some kind of fake friend at some point? I’ll be her confidant about OM? I don’t know if I could or should take that.

We email more or less daily and phone ones out wise a week or so.

It’s -4.F outside today. I’ll try to go out. It’s sunny.

DLK21

Did you see Starfish's post?

Wow,
Thanks Shattered, Starfish, K and Believer
Yes believer I did see Starfishes reply. Thanks.

My WW just finished HNHN and is reading LB now and she knows my position on our relationship in that I believe we could be happy together.

Your replies are enlightening. “It is NOT a love buster to disapprove of the affair or to confront her about her actions in a respectful way.” That is a different angle for me because she was so close to cutting me off, I could not risk that at the beginning. But now things are better.

DLK21

And what kinds of things are you doing to take care of yourself?

That is a good question. I’m exhausted. Getting to be a nervous wreck. My memory, especially short term is lapsing. My relationship with my WW is so unsupportive to me


Nevertheless, I am : Eating well, taking care of my practice, renting movies in the evening, seeing my parents, my brothers and sister talking to friends.

I need exercise and to go out in the daylight.

I’m tiered of being confronted with people who have very little knowledge out what I am doing about my M and my WW.

DLK21