We've been dating 5 weeks, plus talked a couple of weeks before that. I could tell he has been pulling away a little bit lately, and he gave this big "lets not rush things" speech on the phone one day last week, in reaction to something small and not unusual for me to say about our relationship, or liking him, or something. And then I didn't get much of a good-bye kiss Sat. night after a great time together at his house fishing, cooking out, and watching a movie. I mean - NO... I didn't imagine anything... HE REALLY DID have a good time, but telling me bye at the car was almost like "ok, see ya". Then I've hardly heard from him the last 3 days.

hmmmmmm..... I didn't freak out.... I tried to give him a little space.

Well, on my way home from work tonight, I sent a message "I want to come see u". He called immediately to ask what I had in mind. I said well, either tonight, or tomorrow (we're both off work tomorrow). He said he didn't feel up to having company - not in a good mood. (He had already said he was fighting with his XW this afternoon.)

I said you don't have to be in a good mood, I just want to hang out.

I pushed a little bit and it progressed to he has a lot on his mind lately.

... fighting with his XW about money, the kids, etc.

... arguing with his son recently about son's new GF

... especially lately he's felt convicted about his lifestyle - drinking and sex - the last couple of years... (he used to be a preacher, and stepped down during his divorce, and has been "running away" since then, he's not sure when or how to reconcile that... )

So, I say, I understand. If you don't like me, and want to stop seeing me, that's fine. Otherwise, I don't hear any real reason to push me away. I'd like to be here for you, and we can work through those issues. I can give you some space, we can certainly quit the drinking and sex, which I think is awesome!!!, and you can straighten things out on your end... but don't push me away.

So... after quite a bit of discussion, and he also said that ever since his divorce (3 years ago), every time a woman has gotten close to him, he's pushed her away - he's afraid of commitment, and he knows the main reason is he's got to straighten out his relationship and path with God, since he was called to Ministry and left. Anyway... after quite a bit of discussion - and he really felt like ending things with me so he can work on himself - we agreed that we would stay friends, and continue talking. But he can't GIVE right now - can't commit or make promises or give. He likes me, and maybe one day we could date again, but for now, he wants me to date others and move on.

I'm still trying to process all this. I DID agree to the friendship and talking. I feel pretty strongly about staying in his life. He says he really wants me as a friend. Did I handle this right? I guess I'll try it and see. What do you think?

Faith - If he feels strongly that sex and drinking are wrong, he may not be the right one for you, unless you feel that way too.

I think he is full of something.

AGG

AGG,
LOL. nawwww.... I don't think so. Do you mean he was trying to dump me and didn't have the guts to say why? That's possible, but, I really think things were going just fine, and he was fearing commitment. He hasn't had a relationship longer than 4 months since his divorce, and it only ended because she cheated on him. So that added to his trust issues. And with all his other stressors right now, he is feeling overwhelmed and unable to be in a relationship.

I guess it's the same old question, is he "not that into me", or is it really all the stuff he needs to work through?

We can see how the "friendship" goes. We can get to know each other better, and if it's meant to be, it will be. I guess....

Well, I could be wrong of course, but most of what you posted is textbook verbiage of someone trying to end a relationship but not having the guts to do it - "it's not you, it's me", "I need some space and time", "I am confused", "I need to back off"... BTDT, on both sides <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

As far as the "let's be friends", I think it's a waste of time. Never seen it work - one or the other will usually want something more.

The only other comment I'll make is that as I was reading your exchange with him, I kept shuddering how you kept arguing with him about his desire for space - you kept saying that you don't want to push him, but you did not want to give him the space. Did you notice that, or did you not realize that your desire to "help" him by being in his life was disrespectful of his wishes? You may want to think about that a bit, because if a man asks for space, it is best to give it to him - pushing yourself into his "cave" with him is not helpful.

If you really think he has some stuff he needs to work through - give him that time and space. I mean give it to him completely - tell him to look you up when he is done, but in the meantime, you are moving on. Oh, and no matter what you do, do not ask him daily if has "healed" yet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Faith, what AGoodGuy wrote is exactly what I think!

Don't waste your time, take the one already healed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In these cases, you achieve much more by doing nothing... IF any achievement with him is possible at all...


(I didn't get 'sex and drinking' matter though...)

Faith:

This is an interesting topic and I must say that I agree and disagree with what others are saying. It's interesting to me that the first thing everyone says to a newly divorced person is to "take your time, don't rush into another R, test the waters" and so on... And it appears to me that BF is/has taken his time and has occasionally tested the waters with perhaps the best intentions each time. (How else is one to know what temp the water is w/o entering the water?) Yet, so far - each time he's found that he's not ready for a LTR.

Does that mean he's not into you? IMO, No - it doesn't have to mean that at all. It could certainly be that he's still not ready for a R - with anyone. So he's pulling back (as everyone says we should do after D) and desires to maintain a relationship w/you; albeit a different R than you've been enjoying. If he were simply not into you - do you feel he would still desire the friendship he's describing?

Now a question for the troops: We all know that the timeline for complete recovery varies with each person. I've heard from some on here that 6-months was more than enough, and others claim it took several years. [And who are we to say how much time is correct for anyone?] Is it possible that this guy is very much into Faith, yet is simply dealing with issues that must be dealt with - by himself? (As we advise to all who divorce.)

FR

hehe... you all sound like the voices in my head. I read AGG and Belonging's post and think "ahhhh... yes, you're right. I know. OK OK" and then I read Fish's post and think "yeah! That's what I was thinking!"

AGG - on the "friend" and "cave" thing. I have several male friends. I'm good at being there for them, and especially proving that I'm willing to be there for them when others walk away. Now... I also have a history of trying to rescue or help them... being their "angel" in time of need. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> On the cave thing, there is 1 friend in particular that LOVES his cave, and I can't quite figure out that safe cave-space, but I do respect it and try not to chase him in there. Based on my conversation with D last night, he seemed more than OK with me being a friend, and being there to talk to. The "arguing" that took place was more about trying to decide where to go from here. Unles he was trying to twist words and be NICE, it seemed like he wasn't sure, and wasn't really ready to say good-bye, but just felt like he couldn't GIVE anything to me, and therefore felt like it wasn't "fair" to continue seeing me. We agreed that we enjoyed each others' company, sooooo... I wanted to relieve all pressure and say that I wanted to give him space, and that I won't expect anything from him, but that could we still talk and be friends. He liked the idea, as long as I move on and date others, but he DOES want to talk (and he reiterated that as if he wasn't blowing me off).

Hi Faith!

(((Faith)))

You're probably not going to like what I have to say, but...


Granted, I don't know the whole story between this guy and you because I've been away so much, but my initial impression is... too much too soon. He doesn't have to have a "real reason". You are trying to force something to happen.

Five weeks and a three day break is cause for concern? If both people are intense early on, then its not so much a problem, but this guy sounds like he is getting cold feet... real reasons or not. There's not much you can do in that kind of situation. (speaking from experience)

The only thing you can do is back away. Scarcity can be a good thing. If he misses you, he knows how to get hold of you. Any attempt at "friendship" on your part is forcing something that should come naturally... equally...

Sounds like he's not ready... maybe your time is better suited looking for someone who is.

Faith -- I recommend that you do exactly as he suggests.
Give him complete space.

He's basically telling you that its OK for you to hang around meeting some of his needs (conversation, friendship, RC, etc.)
but you shouldn't expect him to meet any of yours.

He's established himself as a non-giver....ahem....TAKER.

He's out of balance. Who needs that? Really.

Thank BigGuy. I agree... backing away. But for the record, the intensity really wasn't there... not like I've had in other relationships. Not sure of your intention of the word "intensity", but we only saw each other 2 times a week. We talked every day, but sometimes only a few minutes, sometimes longer. It was fairly low-key emotionally, as we were trying to take our time. I'm not as attached to him as I was R, and that WAS too much too fast.

But your point is still well-taken. He knows I'm here... it was our agreement. I'll let him take the next friendship step if he wants. I won't push it.

Thanks Lex. Good perspective! I like that!

Hey girl,
sounds like you're getting some pretty good advice here. As for Fishracer, he sounds like a pretty smart guy. I read on another issue he wrote in on and it was a good one too.
By the way FR, I'm impressed. And that's a BIG complement because right now, not much impresses me. I've still got too much to get over from my last marriage. All I can say is at least I know what my issues are and protect anyone else from myself as far as relationships are concerned. Sorry I'm still such a #*tch right now. Give me time.

All I can say Faith is keep on listening to FR. Sounds like he actually takes time to think things through from different perspectives. That's Great!

Take Care
Hope things go good for you - whatever that may be!

Becki

FR said:

Yes, I think everyone has a different recovery timeline, depending on many factors. One factor for him is that he has a VERY strained relationship with his XW. It's in his face almost everyday, and to me, that makes it harder for someone to move on. She is irresponsible with her money and the kids schedules and so there is always something to talk or argue about. When an XW acts like she does (irresponsible, hateful, yelling and cursing), I can see why someone wouldn't want to risk that again with someone else. He says she wasn't like that when they were married, but went through that "alien" transformation that many of us have seen our WS's go through. SOme people are lucky, or are better at separating themselves so that they don't have to deal with it face-to-face every day. I'm not sure how he can avoid dealing with her, unless he goes to an extreme measure like using his parents as a mediator, but that's not fair to them.

Sooo.. like I said, yes, everyone has a different recovery time, depending on lots of factors. As far as "our" specific situation, and "is he really into me", time will tell. I'm not going to disappear. But I won't push him either. And I won't wait and hold expectations either... even though I'm depressed and missing him today...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> and wanting to figure out how to fix this.

but you see Faith? -- you're carrying the burden.
You want to fix everything for him.

Wouldn't it be nice to have someone thinking of ways to make YOU happier?

There needs to be a balance. He's told you he's in TAKER mode. That makes you jump into "Ultimate Giver" mode. Get out your cape and superpowers.

Resist!

BINGO Lex!

Faith: So you're a "fixer"! Well, me too. And a protector, so I know from where you come! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The good news is that you're cognizant of that knowledge which helps with perspective.

You're still getting excellent advice from everyone and I also feel that you're going about this correctly - given the situation as it is. BF definitely has some issues [unrelated to you] that he must deal with and while his desire to tackle these issues alone causes you grief; I understand where he's coming from, particularly if he cares for you.

From AGG:
Very well said. I agree on all points.

Big Guy:
I agree BG. Particularly if BF "misses" Faith.

Lexxy:

Good points. Do you feel it's a positive thing though; that BF admitted to Faith that "he's in taker-mode"? I agree that Faith should not engage "Fixer-Woman" unless asked, so leave cape & SP in the phone booth for now.

RMW: Thanks for the kind words - I'll take em anytime! And I didn't take you as being a "#*tch" - just thought we caught you at an unfortunate time of the month! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I hear you about getting over M and all that. It's good that you recognize and allow for those roller-coaster emotions. Your passion is still alive & well though and that's a great thing.

Back to Faith: The facts surrounding BF's XW are also big. He is definitely dealing with a lot of stuff! Everyone on here is offering their best advice and also do not want to see you get hurt again. You probably have in mind the best thing to do. My best advice for you - is to do as you would suggest to any of us in the same sitch.

Good Luck.

FR

Thanks Fish. I really appreciate your perspective. I read it last night, and it helped me bunches.

I was fighting a migraine last night and this morning. Having a bad week, really. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Overdrew my account Wednesday. Ugh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I'm resisting the urge to want to call him or contact him somehow. (have you healed yet?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I wish I could quit thinking about him. It's not so much that he was everything I wanted (I can't tell that in 5 weeks), but there WAS a lot that I liked, and I just enjoy having someone in my life. He started out as someone VERY unlikely for me to consider dating, so I was cautious and skeptical, then I discovered someone very special, and enjoyed so much about him, and saw potential.

So, yes, the "fixer" in me wants to fix the situation. Also the stubbornnes in me doesn't want to let go of the situation, unless it's MY decision. He's not allowed to change things without my permission <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />. ya know?

I'll get there..... at least I'm not bugging him. He's got his space.

oh god -- so much of what you say really hits home with me!
I have all those tendencies too.

Fixing everything...
Stubborn...
Only letting go under my terms....

Hang Tough!

Faith,

I haven't jumped in yet, but thought I might have something to add.

I was your guy in my past relationship. The one that needed the space.
It wasn't that I didn't care for him, [or love as it was for me] but it was just stuff that I needed to get through, and I couldn't get through it in the romantic relationship that I was in with him.

As far as the, being "just friends" part, I think that will be very hard once that line of intimacy has been crossed. It may be possible, but I think it would be very hard.

My best advice would be, TRY to let him be the one to contact you. TRY to respect what he's asking you for.
He may be able to sort through it, and return to the relationship. I suppose only time will tell. This is one of those times where the crystal ball would be so helpful. If you just knew it was temporary, you could get through it, kind of thoughts.

I know how hard it is to not make that phone call.
I wanted to let you know that I'm on this site a lot, not always responding, but usually around.
If it helps to post here rather than call him, I will respond to you. Even if it's repeat thoughts of how you're feeling.
I went through it with the break up of xbf, or during those times when I needed that space. You get to a point where you just know someone is going to get tired of reading the same thoughts. I got the T-shirt for that one, so I'll return the ear anytime.

I'll be thinking of you.
Karona